Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

Lennonist · 31-05-2014 08:44AM

Dempsey wrote: »

How do I know? If Lennon couldnt get it despite getting last 16 UCL, Keane has no hope whilst we have 3 qualifiers and 3 of the biggest gates in Scotland outside the Premiership. The maths of the situation are very simple. There has been nothing to suggest otherwise.

Dermot Desmond would like Keane as manager and if it was the case that in order to tie up a deal with him that the purse strings would be loosened a bit - initially anyway - I could see that happen. I don't know for definite, it's just what I think, the point is you don't know either but that doesn't stop you letting on that you do. I doubt Keane will take the job if there isn't a bit more to spend this summer than there has been in recent seasons.

Dempsey wrote: »

McNamara has enough experience to handle the Celtic job, certainly better track record of improving clubs & developing players. When was the last time Keane managed an EPL team? 6 years ago, he's been dining out on that short lived stint for a good while now

I'm not going to run down McNamara just to win silly pointscore arguments with you. I'd be happier with McNamara than Coyle for example, but Keane would be a more ambitious choice, I'd prefer Keane to get it.

Dempsey wrote: »

Im not wrong, comments from players say that he was focussed on next season up until the meeting with Lawwell. You have no comments to back up your claims

When Lennon left it didn't come as a huge shock to me, I thought he might stay for another season or two, but when he left it wasn't the biggest surprise in the world. I think that Mjalby would've known that there was a strong possibility that Lennon was ready to leave. Samaras' comments on the last day of the season seemed to indicate that things were a bit rocky between Lennon and Lawwell. Like I say I don't know for definite, but if I had to make a call on it, I'd safely say you are wrong, again.

Lemmy Scott · 31-05-2014 08:44AM

5ForKeeps wrote: »

What exactly has Keane done in management to warrant such a big job. Playing for the club for six months and his roles at Ipswich and Sunderland should be questioned as his temperament is not something he is able to control plus he wasn't bankrolled by Ellis Short at Ipswich.

Jackie deserves a chance with the decent job he has done at Dundee United but not my club I support but if anyone knows Celtic inside out its Jackie more so than Keane.

sunderland were at the end of the championship and he won nearly every game-ipswich are a club no one can win promotion with-tbh celtic have won the lotto getting keano.

keane is box office while jackie wouldnt put more arses on seats

Lemmy Scott · 31-05-2014 08:45AM

Lennon not getting a sniff off a premiership club he be lucky to get a championship one

Dempsey · 31-05-2014 09:08AM

Lennonist wrote: »

Dermot Desmond would like Keane as manager and if it was the case that in order to tie up a deal with him that the purse strings would be loosened a bit - initially anyway - I could see that happen. I don't know for definite, it's just what I think, the point is you don't know either but that doesn't stop you letting on that you do. I doubt Keane will take the job if there isn't a bit more to spend this summer than there has been in recent seasons.

I'm not going to run down McNamara just to win silly pointscore arguments with you. I'd be happier with McNamara than Coyle for example, but Keane would be a more ambitious choice, I'd prefer Keane to get it.

When Lennon left it didn't come as a huge shock to me, I thought he might stay for another season or two, but when he left it wasn't the biggest surprise in the world. I think that Mjalby would've known that there was a strong possibility that Lennon was ready to leave. Samaras' comments on the last day of the season seemed to indicate that things were a bit rocky between Lennon and Lawwell. Like I say I don't know for definite, but if I had to make a call on it, I'd safely say you are wrong, again.

Grand theories but they fly in the face of reality.

Desmond's mantra has been for Celtic to cut its cloth accordingly, that wont change for Keane.

I disagree, Keane is not a more ambitious choice, its a more riskier choice and there is nothing to suggest otherwise except 1 season in management 7 years ago where he bought allround him. He do remember that he fell out with the owner and chairman over not getting more money? Asking for more money at Celtic and throwing a strop wont work with Desmond or Lawwell, they are hard nosed & very good at their jobs.

Not a shock to anyone, the media were hinting it for a long time, even goes back to the time he nearly got the WBA job. The players are saying a different story, that he told them that he would be staying on. His stance changed after the meeting with Lawwell, not before.

weldoninhio · 31-05-2014 09:29AM

Lemmy Scott wrote: »

sunderland were at the end of the championship and he won nearly every game-ipswich are a club no one can win promotion with-tbh celtic have won the lotto getting keano.

keane is box office while jackie wouldnt put more arses on seats

Keane is box office because a meltdown is always imminent. He's a poor manager. He doesn't have the people skills to deal with players. He doesn't have the tactical skills to help bring the team forward. He doesn't have the coaching skills to bring through youth. If Keane gets the job he won't last the season in my opinion.

Lennonist · 31-05-2014 09:41AM

Dempsey wrote: »

Grand theories but they fly in the face of reality.

Desmond's matra has been for Celtic to cut its cloth accordingly, that wont change for Keane.

You don't know that for definite, it's just your opinion, your grand theory if you like.

Desmond has been known to bankroll signings in the past. He hasn't done it for a few seasons, never really did it for Lennon. He might do it for Keane initially at least to get him in the door, and if Keane took the job I'd only expect 2 or 3 seasons out of him. Desmond might be prepared to sanction a 5 to 6 million signing that Lennon was looking for provided the wage structure isn't broken. You could get a young quality player that could cost that but wouldn't be on huge wages.

Dempsey wrote: »

I disagree, Keane is not a more ambitious choice, its a more riskier choice and there is nothing to suggest otherwise except 1 season in management 7 years ago where he bought allround him. He do remeber that he fell out with the owner and chairman over not getting more money? Asking for more money at Celtic and throwing a strop wont work with Desmond or Lawwell, they are hard nosed & very good at their jobs.

Keane would be the more ambitious choice of any of the candidates that have been linked with the job so far, no question about it.

Dempsey wrote: »

Not a shock to anyone, the media were hinting it for a long time, even goes back to the time he nearly got the WBA job. The players are saying a different story, that he told them that he would be staying on. His stance changed after the meeting with Lawwell, not before.

Not sure what you're getting at here, it's a bit muddled to say the least. So it wasn't a shock that he left, but he only made a definitive decision to leave very recently. So what.

He was keeping his options open, why would he tell the players that he was leaving until he definitely had to.

Dempsey · 31-05-2014 10:17AM

Lennonist wrote: »

You don't know that for definite, it's just your opinion, your grand theory if you like.

Desmond has been known to bankroll signings in the past. He hasn't done it for a few seasons, never really did it for Lennon. He might do it for Keane initially at least to get him in the door, and if Keane took the job I'd only expect 2 or 3 seasons out of him. Desmond might be prepared to sanction a 5 to 6 million signing that Lennon was looking for provided the wage structure isn't broken. You could get a young quality player that could cost that but wouldn't be on huge wages.

Keane would be the more ambitious choice of any of the candidates that have been linked with the job so far, no question about it.

Not sure what you're getting at here, it's a bit muddled to say the least. So it wasn't a shock that he left, but he only made a definitive decision to leave very recently. So what.

He was keeping his options open, why would he tell the players that he was leaving until he definitely had to.

You're definitely ignoring facts now! Anything I'm saying can be backed up, I know you cant say the same.

Who was the last player Desmond bankrolled? Desmond has continually stated that he's not going to bankroll the club. If he bankrolled anything as the media suggests, it would have to be in the annual statements which its not. The last thing Desmond bankrolled was the building of Lennoxtown and a chunk of debt from the MON era.

Lennon was on a rolling contract and he was happy to stick with that from the beginning despite renegotiating his contact. With and the media speculating about his future, how could it be a shock that he'd leave before agreeing to keep the contract rolling. Unexpected given everything that was said publicly, yes, shocked, no.

He even renegotiated his contract without taking a pay rise! He wanted assurances about how the club was being run and his influence he could have based on the success he brought. Keane wont get more than Lennon without showing that he can handle the job. Its delusional to think Keane would get a bigger budget from outset especially now that Hibs & Hearts are gone from the Premiership. Lawwell isnt going to lose his marbles just because he's dealing with Roy Keane.

The fact is that Lennon stated to the players very recently that he would be at Celtic next season, more recent than Mjallby's announcement. A meeting with Lawwell changed his mind. Even Mjallby himself stated that he thought Lennon was going to stay at Celtic.

Mjallby wrote:

"He hasn't told me anything about that. If you ask me, I think he's going to be still here."

Mjallby never hid his ambition to eventually become a manager himself, Lennon knew that when they paired up.

No question about Keane being the most ambitious choice? Alot of Celtic fans and fans of other clubs have been questioning Keane's ability to manage any club for the past 3 years, never mind a massive club like Celtic. You seem to be ignoring the obvious risks because of other reasons.

Lemmy Scott · 31-05-2014 10:36AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Keane is box office because a meltdown is always imminent. He's a poor manager. He doesn't have the people skills to deal with players. He doesn't have the tactical skills to help bring the team forward. He doesn't have the coaching skills to bring through youth. If Keane gets the job he won't last the season in my opinion.

Footballs all about opinions -I disagree with yours.If keane cant inspire a player theres something wrong with the player.Tactics are over rated in fact I could manage that celtic team

Dempsey · 31-05-2014 10:40AM

Lemmy Scott wrote: »

Footballs all about opinions -I disagree with yours.If keane cant inspire a player theres something wrong with the player.Tactics are over rated in fact I could manage that celtic team

You're playing too much football manager if you believe that to be a fact.

RoryMac · 31-05-2014 10:49AM

Lemmy Scott wrote: »

Footballs all about opinions -I disagree with yours.If keane cant inspire a player theres something wrong with the player.Tactics are over rated in fact I could manage that celtic team

When a manager continuously fails to inspire players it becomes the fault of the manager. Keane's influence at both Sunderland & Ipswich quickly deteriorated after the initial honeymoon period.

Tactics may well be pretty much meaningless in the SPL but in the Champions League we will need someone that has the ability to read the game and make adjustments, Keane failed to do this at Sunderland & Ipswich.

Keane is an ambitious signing in name alone, his record as a manager shows him to be poor

Lennonist · 31-05-2014 10:59AM

Dempsey wrote: »

You're definitely ignoring facts now! Anything I'm saying can be backed up, I know you cant say the same.

No I'm not, I'm specualting on what might happen which is exactly what you are doing, except you continue with your routine that everything you say is fact. It's not fact it's your opinion.

Dempsey wrote: »

Who was the last player Desmond bankrolled? Desmond has continually stated that he's not going to bankroll the club. If he bankrolled anything as the media suggests, it would have to be in the annual statements which its not. The last thing Desmond bankrolled was the building of Lennoxtown and a chunk of debt from the MON era.

Robbie Keane's wages in the loan deal maybe?

Desmond and the board have a call to make. The only game in town for Celtic next season is the CL and finishing at least 3rd in the Group so that there is European football post Christmas. Attendances are going down and things have gone a bit flat. They may feel there is a need to shake things up a bit. Get Keane in for a couple of seasons 'til The Rangers arrive, and spend a bit of money to help ensure qualification and pick up points and money in the Group Stage.

Desmond has the money to sanction one or two bigger signings than has been made in recent years on a once off basis, though they'll want to keep the wage structure intact. Why would he give a bit more money to Keane than to Lennon? I don't know, you'll have to ask him that if it happens. The fact is they are talking to Keane, so they are thinking about doing what I'm saying. Keane wont take the job unless there's a bit of extra money to spend in the transfer market. Whether they do it or not we'll find out soon.

Dempsey wrote: »

Lennon was on a rolling contract and he was happy to stick with that from the beginning despite renegotiating his contact. He even renegotiated his contract without taking a pay rise! He wanted assurances about how the club was being run and his influence he could have based on the success he brought. Keane wont get more than Lennon without showing that he can handle the job. Its delusional to think Keane would get a bigger budget from outset especially now that Hibs & Hearts are gone from the Premiership. Lawwell isnt going to lose his marbles just because he's dealing with Roy Keane.

Lawwell will do whatever Desmond tells him to do. Bringing in Keane would be a calculated gamble that they will weigh up, nobody is going to be losing any marbles.

Dempsey wrote: »

The fact is that Lennon stated to the players very recently that he would be at Celtic next season, more recent than Mjallby's announcement. A meeting with Lawwell changed his mind. Even Mjallby himself stated that he thought Lennon was going to stay at Celtic.

Mjallby never hid his ambition to eventually become a manager himself, Lennon knew that when they paired up.

I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Lennon told the players that he'd be here next season - so what, he's hardly going to tell them he wasn't or he might not be. I reckon Mjalby saw the writing on the wall and left before him, 'cos he probably knew he wouldn't be getting the gig when Lennon left. That's the way it looks in hindsight.

Dempsey wrote: »

No question about Keane being the most ambitious choice? Alot of Celtic fans and fans of other clubs have been questioning Keane's ability to manage any club for the past 3 years, never mind a massive club like Celtic. You seem to be ignoring the obvious risks because of other reasons.

There's no question in my mind that he'd be the most ambitious choice from the current list of candidates and I think that a lot of other Celtic fans think the same. Roy Keane does split opinion, but if he did well in Europe he'd swing the whole support behind him. I hope he gets the job.

Dempsey · 31-05-2014 12:44PM

Lennonist wrote: »

No I'm not, I'm specualting on what might happen which is exactly what you are doing, except you continue with your routine that everything you say is fact. It's not fact it's your opinion.

Robbie Keane's wages in the loan deal maybe?

Desmond and the board have a call to make. The only game in town for Celtic next season is the CL and finishing at least 3rd in the Group so that there is European football post Christmas. Attendances are going down and things have gone a bit flat. They may feel there is a need to shake things up a bit. Get Keane in for a couple of seasons 'til The Rangers arrive, and spend a bit of money to help ensure qualification and pick up points and money in the Group Stage.

Desmond has the money to sanction one or two bigger signings than has been made in recent years on a once off basis, though they'll want to keep the wage structure intact. Why would he give a bit more money to Keane than to Lennon? I don't know, you'll have to ask him that if it happens. The fact is they are talking to Keane, so they are thinking about doing what I'm saying. Keane wont take the job unless there's a bit of extra money to spend in the transfer market. Whether they do it or not we'll find out soon.

Lawwell will do whatever Desmond tells him to do. Bringing in Keane would be a calculated gamble that they will weigh up, nobody is going to be losing any marbles.

I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Lennon told the players that he'd be here next season - so what, he's hardly going to tell them he wasn't or he might not be. I reckon Mjalby saw the writing on the wall and left before him, 'cos he probably knew he wouldn't be getting the gig when Lennon left. That's the way it looks in hindsight.

There's no question in my mind that he'd be the most ambitious choice from the current list of candidates and I think that a lot of other Celtic fans think the same. Roy Keane does split opinion, but if he did well in Europe he'd swing the whole support behind him. I hope he gets the job.

The Robbie Keane deal was funded by money from Celtic PLC, no money was transferred into Celtic by Dermot Desmond since the share issue that paid for Lennoxtown & service debt. Thats a fact, not opinion.

You can speculate about what Desmond might do with Keane but remember that 2 Celtic managers that achieved last 16 UCL didnt get the backing that you are suggesting. Thats a fact.

You have a theory, statements by Mjallby & Celtic players contradicts it.

Lennonist · 31-05-2014 12:57PM

Dempsey wrote: »

The Robbie Keane deal was funded by money from Celtic PLC, no money was transferred into Celtic by Dermot Desmond since the share issue that paid for Lennoxtown & service debt. Thats a fact, not opinion.

I think the PLC can probably pay for a couple of bigger signings than in recent years, but it will still be sanctioned by Desmond and maybe underwritten by him. You can split hairs about the finer details of how they arrange things financially, I'm saying that if Keane is appointed one or two bigger signings than have happened in recent years will happen.

Dempsey wrote: »

You can speculate about what Desmond might do with Keane but remember that 2 Celtic managers that achieved last 16 UCL didnt get the backing that you are suggesting. Thats a fact.

Yes I know that's a fact. That doesn't mean what I'm suggesting with Keane can't happen.

Dempsey wrote: »

You have a theory, statements by Mjallby & Celtic players contradicts it.

What people say what happened and what actually may or may not have happened are separate things.

We'll find out soon wont we exactly who is right and who is wrong. I hope Keane gets the gig.

weldoninhio · 01-06-2014 09:31PM

Was in one of the Sunday papers that a Premiership club have offered Keane a job and told him that he can keep his role with the Irish team too.

Blessing for Celtic if true.

RoryMac · 01-06-2014 09:53PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Was in one of the Sunday papers that a Premiership club have offered Keane a job and told him that he can keep his role with the Irish team too.

Blessing for Celtic if true.

Everything I've read suggests he is just finalising his backroom staff and will be announced as Celtic manager tomorrow

TheBuilder · 02-06-2014 12:35PM

Keane has turned it down apparently

Jimmy Rabbitte Snr · 02-06-2014 12:45PM

C'est la vie. If you're to believe what's written, the job was his to take. It would be interesting to know why, but I suspect, and could be off the mark, that he couldn't get the budget he wanted. It's a blow to Celtic nonetheless to have offered the job to someone only for him to refuse it. Plenty of relieved supporters around though, I personally would have liked him to take it!

RED L4 0TH · 02-06-2014 01:02PM

TheBuilder wrote: »

Keane has turned it down apparently

Yes. BBC saying this.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27668334

Jimmy Rabbitte Snr · 02-06-2014 01:06PM

Steve Clarke now gone to 4/6f in the betting.

Lennonist · 02-06-2014 01:09PM

Thought this might happen. It's an indication that the club are downsizing and there'll be next to no budget even if Forster is sold. Article in The Examiner today says there'll be only 2 to 5 million to spend even after selling players, not surprised Keane turned it down if that is the case.

Lemmy Scott · 02-06-2014 01:11PM

The job is crap-crap league in all

Jimmy Rabbitte Snr · 02-06-2014 01:12PM

Lemmy Scott wrote: »

The job is crap-crap league in all

Great input and incredible insight.

Lemmy Scott · 02-06-2014 01:14PM

Jimmy Rabbitte Snr wrote: »

Great input and incredible insight.

straight to the point no fluffing around

PauloMN · 02-06-2014 01:25PM

Thank f**k for that.

RoryMac · 02-06-2014 01:33PM

Its a blessing in disguise, Keane may have been a big name but he's a failure as a manager and would have caused major problems before being turfed out.

Hopefully now the board will actually put a bit of thought into who is suited to the job rather than who can sell a few season books but I doubt it

Neeson · 02-06-2014 02:03PM

Managing Celtic would have been perfect. He would be practically guaranteed a league win. The only issue would be how he would do in Europe. Nowhere easier for him to get a trophy as a manager of a decent club.

Lennonist · 02-06-2014 05:51PM

PauloMN wrote: »

Thank f**k for that.

The club are downsizing in an alarming fashion and are not an attractive job for a manager with ambition.

Forget about Keane, he's someone that some people dislike for all sorts of reasons, though I was hoping we'd get him. The issue here is the budget is shrinking, despite being in the CL for the last couple and despite making good money on selling players we got for cheaper. Forster will be sold, might get 10 million for him but only a fraction of that money will be reinvested in the team.

Here's an article from The Examiner, if the article is accurate the club are going backwards, might even miss out on the CL this season and even if we get there will make little impact. The article says even if we sell top players the budget will only be 2 to 5 million. Ticket sales are going down so the money that comes in will be used to plug that hole, but it's a downward spiral that eventually could lead to missing out on the funding that comes with playing in the CL.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/blog/donrsquot-go-writing-the-roy-bhoy-headlines-just-yet-270694.html#.U4w-b1wGIXI.twitter

Steve Clarke is favourite now, I hope we get him, but he might turn it down as well.

RoryMac · 02-06-2014 09:07PM

I'm not sure we're downsizing but we certainly aren't going to push the budget which was available to Lennon. If players are sold most of that money will be reinvested but there will be little or nothing on top of that. There will also be no big increase in the wages offered to players as evident by not offering Samaras a new deal or going back to Ledley etc not agreeing a new deal

I'm not sure Keane was offered the job and the statement that he asked not to be considered could just as easily be a face saving exercise on Keane's part.

Either way I'm happy that he's not taking over as everything in his career to date is opposed to the type of manager we need at present.

We need someone who can promote the young players and develop them into first team players capable of playing in the CL.

Steve Clarke could be good but I'm still hoping its MacKay or someone not already mentioned in the media

cardwizzard · 04-06-2014 11:06AM

Ronny Delia latest to be linked to the job.

BohsCeltic · 04-06-2014 11:43AM

cardwizzard wrote: »

Ronny Delia latest to be linked to the job.

I had to google him.
On another note a pub in Dublin 15 is looking to get Lennon out for a q&a evening

Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

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