Season 4 Episode 6 "The Laws of Gods and Men": HAVE read the books

Mousewar · 13-05-2014 12:08PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

I thought the last guy was terrible... I know Daario's meant to be cocky pr*ck, but this Daario is at least somewhat likeable,

But this is my point - the new guy is actually kinda okay. We're meant to hate him though right? He's an ass. Previous actor was much better at being a smarmy pr*ck than this new guy.
I think the dynamic in the book is for us to feel a little protective of Dany against this cad. Not sure if that will play out as well in the show since the actor isn't as disagreeable as the previous one.

Hotale.com · 13-05-2014 12:12PM

Mousewar wrote: »

But this is my point - the new guy is actually kinda okay. We're meant to hate him though right? He's an ass. Previous actor was much better at being a smarmy pr*ck than this new guy.
I think the dynamic in the book is for us to feel a little protective of Dany against this cad. Not sure if that will play out as well in the show since the actor isn't as disagreeable as the previous one.

I'm thinking of the show and book as two completely different entities at this stage. The show must have given Daario this more friendly angle on purpose just because they felt the audience would appreciate it more.

Anyway, I think its nice to see a different manifestation of the story on television, makes a good watch

celica00 · 13-05-2014 12:31PM

Mousewar wrote: »

I hate him - he's completely without the over-confident swagger the last guy had, as you say. It's like he's on quaaludes or something.
I mean, I can understand him not being quite as good as the last guy but it's like they went out of their to find someone as unlike the character as possible.

why did he change him anyway?
was proper confused and liked the old one soooooo much better

Paddy Cow · 13-05-2014 12:34PM

rawn wrote: »

I just hope it only shows the shepherd with the bag of bones and not show the burning itself, cos I'm still waiting to see in the books if it was all a trick to have her reign in her dragons or not! Don't want it spoiled for me :P

I hate to spoil it for you but there is no conspiracy here. The child got fried and eaten. The most unbelievable part for me is that they manage to retrieve the bones.

Mousewar · 13-05-2014 12:35PM

celica00 wrote: »

why did he change him anyway?
was proper confused and liked the old one soooooo much better

Actor got a better gig.

rawn · 13-05-2014 12:41PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I hate to spoil it for you but there is no conspiracy here. The child got fried and eaten. The most unbelievable part for me is that they manage to retrieve the bones.

I don't remember it being irrefutable in the books, did I miss something? All they had was a shepherd's witness statement and a bag of burnt bones

Paddy Cow · 13-05-2014 12:45PM

rawn wrote: »

I don't remember it being irrefutable in the books, did I miss something? All they had was a shepherd's witness statement and a bag of burnt bones

Sometimes things are exactly as they seem and the most obvious and logical conclusion is the right one. If it turns out there was more to this than Drogo eating the child, I will eat my hat. Where did they get burned child bones? Are you suggesting they killed a child and burned it to try and get the dragons in trouble?

chickenboy · 13-05-2014 12:56PM

Mousewar wrote: »

They made quite a point of showing the shepherd's small child last night. I think it's pretty clear they're setting him up to be burnt to a crisp pretty soon.

The last episode of the season is titled "Children", so I'd expect to see it then.

Gbear · 13-05-2014 01:00PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Sometimes things are exactly as they seem and the most obvious and logical conclusion is the right one. If it turns out there was more to this than Drogo eating the child, I will eat my hat. Where did they get burned child bones? Are you suggesting they killed a child and burned it to try and get the dragons in trouble?

His child dies (of a disease rather than dragonfire) and he hears Dany has opened a cash for goats outlet. He figures he can make some money from it?

All he'd have to do would be burn the body.

celica00 · 13-05-2014 01:06PM

In the book I found it convincing enough that hes child was actually eaten, they even discuss it in there if he lied or not.

Mousewar · 13-05-2014 01:30PM

The books are quite realistic in that regard - they reflect the lack of certainty in real life. So Martin often never gives us complete certainty about events even though he doesn't necessarily want us to believe there is more to it. It was similar with Syrio Forel's death. Because we didn't explicitly see him die, some people think that means he's really alive. Likewise, with the child that Drogon kills - we don't know for a fact that he did it but I don't think Martin intends for us to assume anything other than what appears to be most likely.

tl;dr: That kid is toast.

Boom_Bap · 13-05-2014 01:47PM

I think the opening scene with the Shepards Boy was to give all that have read the books a little bit of excitement.
I was certain that the boy was going to be fried. And when the shepard opened the package, I was expecting child bones, but then there was an obvious sheeps skull there.

So I who have read the books was on edge as he unwrapped the blanket, whereas my missus who has not read the books was unmoved by the scene.

ArmaniJeanss · 13-05-2014 01:50PM

Gbear wrote: »

His child dies (of a disease rather than dragonfire) and he hears Dany has opened a cash for goats outlet. He figures he can make some money from it?

All he'd have to do would be burn the body.

:pac:

Paddy Cow · 13-05-2014 01:50PM

Gbear wrote: »

His child dies (of a disease rather than dragonfire) and he hears Dany has opened a cash for goats outlet. He figures he can make some money from it?

All he'd have to do would be burn the body.

If Arya gives the Hound the gift of mercy and there is no question that he is dead, then I and a lot of people would be p!ssed because there is solid evidence that he is the grave digger. That is what I would consider an example of the show spoilering the books.

Once Dany sorts it out with him, his part in the story is done. In the books there is no reason to disbelieve the guy. The dragons are getting bigger and more out of control. They see a child as a nice tasty meal and eat it. I would imagine that if left long enough, they would start eating adults. Reading more into this is nothing more than whataboutery.

bopper · 13-05-2014 02:35PM

It's questioned in the book that Drogon didn't actually kill the child but Dany is unable to believe it because of how the father grieved, and the fact that he waited until the entire court had cleared before he presented the bones. That makes sense and the fact that is was never questioned again says to me that there's nothing more to it than that.

I actually prefer the new Daario to the previous guy.

Gbear · 13-05-2014 02:38PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

If Arya gives the Hound the gift of mercy and there is no question that he is dead, then I and a lot of people would be p!ssed because there is solid evidence that he is the grave digger. That is what I would consider an example of the show spoilering the books.

Once Dany sorts it out with him, his part in the story is done. In the books there is no reason to disbelieve the guy. The dragons are getting bigger and more out of control. They see a child as a nice tasty meal and eat it. I would imagine that if left long enough, they would start eating adults. Reading more into this is nothing more than whataboutery.

Yeah I don't believe that it's made up either but it's raised by the Shavepate that the man might be full of **** (and he even suggests taking his tongue to stop him spreading "lies").

We see Drogon eating people in the fighting pits (Barsena) so there's no reason to believe that he wouldn't eat a kiddie.

I was just answering your question. It wouldn't be a hard thing to fake.

Sulla Felix · 13-05-2014 09:16PM

Has there been any mention of the Myrcella as Queen conspiracy yet? Fairly sure it had been foreshadowed in the books before the trial, at least before the Viper vs Mountain. I hope we get to see Dorne, the sand snakes etc

Gadgie · 13-05-2014 09:18PM

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Has there been any mention of the Myrcella as Queen conspiracy yet? Fairly sure it had been foreshadowed in the books before the trial, at least before the Viper vs Mountain. I hope we get to see Dorne, the sand snakes etc

I don't think that storyline started until the fourth book. I'm not expecting to see Dorne until next season.

rawn · 13-05-2014 10:12PM

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Has there been any mention of the Myrcella as Queen conspiracy yet? Fairly sure it had been foreshadowed in the books before the trial, at least before the Viper vs Mountain. I hope we get to see Dorne, the sand snakes etc

celica00 · 13-05-2014 10:19PM

I finally watched the episode too!

I have to say that this one is the best one so far (whole show).

I found everything brilliant, the actors are amazing!
The bit with Asha was very good too in my opinion, and "Reek" is such a good actor.
The last bit of the episode was very well played, so many emotions. Really enjoyed the whole episode.

Hotale.com · 13-05-2014 10:23PM

rawn wrote: »

Different customs in Dorne. In Dorne sex doesn't matter, Myrcella is older than Tommen, so therefore by Dornish customs she should be queen.

(I think that's it anyway :P)

Sulla Felix · 13-05-2014 10:29PM

After going back and skimming end of aSoS and start of DwD. In the book, Oberyn and Tyrion discuss Myrcella before the trial, Oberyn offering to show Tyrion around Dorne if he'd like, seeming to think he had Sansa stashed somewhere and she'd be along too once Tyrion is free.
One of the main sandsnakes then takes up the idea in the start of DwD.
And yeah, according to treaty with Targaryens from the conquest, Dornish law would hold sway in Dorne, so the thinking is that while in Dorne, Myrcella is actually next in line since women can inherit before men in Dorne.

Sleepy · 14-05-2014 12:41PM

The only complaint in this episode would be that Yara/Asha has danced the finger dance IIRC so why the hell wasn't her axe buried in Ramsey's skull before he could open the cell door?

Hotale.com · 14-05-2014 12:45PM

Sleepy wrote: »

The only complaint in this episode would be that Yara/Asha has danced the finger dance IIRC so why the hell wasn't her axe buried in Ramsey's skull before he could open the cell door?

Couldn't they have killed the dogs anyway if he did release them? They were armoured, had axes shields, and there were only about 10 dogs max, would have easily killed them..

Mousewar · 14-05-2014 12:51PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Couldn't they have killed the dogs anyway if he did release them? They were armoured, had axes shields, and there were only about 10 dogs max, would have easily killed them..

This.
Why in sweet f**k would an armoured group with swords and axes be afraid of a few dogs?

Witcher · 14-05-2014 12:56PM

They didn't run from the dogs...there was no point staying to fcuk around with dogs when the Dreadfort garrison was going to arrive and decimate them.

She retreated to save herself and her men. Good commander. You don't get a reputation as a good commander and warrior by being an idiot, when you're beaten, you're beaten.

If they'd stayed they would have ended up dead outright, flayed alive or worse; like Theon.

Duckworth_Luas · 14-05-2014 12:57PM

Mousewar wrote: »

This.
Why in sweet f**k would an armoured group with swords and axes be afraid of a few dogs?

Obviously the dogs had bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you.

celica00 · 14-05-2014 01:03PM

Also: as she gave up on Theon, there was no need to stay longer and risk their lifes...

Hotale.com · 14-05-2014 01:04PM

celica00 wrote: »

Also: as she gave up on Theon, there was no need to stay longer and risk their lifes...

Killing Ramsay wasn't worth staying for?

Mousewar · 14-05-2014 01:10PM

Blay wrote: »

They didn't run from the dogs...there was no point staying to fcuk around with dogs when the Dreadfort garrison was going to arrive and decimate them.

She retreated to save herself and her men. Good commander. You don't get a reputation as a good commander and warrior by being an idiot, when you're beaten, you're beaten.

If they'd stayed they would have ended up dead outright, flayed alive or worse; like Theon.

I suppose that makes sense but then it was the failing of the show in not leaving that as the main impression on the viewer. The emphasis was on the dogs. It would have been far better to hear the feet of an approaching garrison and a lingering look at Theon before fleeing. Instead we got ramsey waving a key and a dog that would be felled in one swing of an ax barking.

It also made a mockery of all the buildup - her speech to her men on the boat, her speech to her father. And all for a five minute scene where she flees with her tail between her legs.

Season 4 Episode 6 "The Laws of Gods and Men": *HAVE* read the books

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Season 4 Episode 6 "The Laws of Gods and Men": HAVE read the books