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RIFLE PROBLEM

  • 12-05-2014 08:56PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭


    I just picked up a gun I bought there today. I bought it second hand off a fella I know. There seems to be a problem. About one in 4 to 5 bullets is getting lodged in chamber of rifle. When the bullet fires it is actually splitting the casing of the bullet causing it to lodge in chamber. Pics of bullets attached. I was just wondering if anyone had encountered this problem before and if so what was the remedy ? The gun is a MARLIN MAGNUM .22. Also dont know if this is linked but the bullets are not chambering properly from magazine. When the bolt picks up the bullet it pulls it from mag and then it just bounces around the place. It takes a bit of messing to get it lined up to slot into chamber and then once fired it will not eject bullet every time. Im not impressed. Just wondering if anyone has any possible solutions. Thanks.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    Just out of curiosity, are they 22 WMR or 22 LR ?
    Reason being is AFAIK 22LR will split in a 22WMR


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭tomcat220t


    Briany82 wrote: »
    I just picked up a gun I bought there today. I bought it second hand off a fella I know. There seems to be a problem. About one in 4 to 5 bullets is getting lodged in chamber of rifle. When the bullet fires it is actually splitting the casing of the bullet causing it to lodge in chamber. Pics of bullets attached. I was just wondering if anyone had encountered this problem before and if so what was the remedy ? The gun is a MARLIN MAGNUM .22. Also dont know if this is linked but the bullets are not chambering properly from magazine. When the bolt picks up the bullet it pulls it from mag and then it just bounces around the place. It takes a bit of messing to get it lined up to slot into chamber and then once fired it will not eject bullet every time. Im not impressed. Just wondering if anyone has any possible solutions. Thanks.
    Hi Briany, are you shooting .22lr in a .22 mag chamber ?The mag chamber is a little larger dia. and could cause the .22lr to split .
    Regards ,Tomcat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    Here's are the specs in comparison to each cartridge:

    2014-05-12_21-18-46_zps9584d616.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Briany82


    Fair play mate. Im after looking and the bullets that I got with the rifle and they are Winchester LR bullets and it says on the the rifle 22 WMR. Did not even know this. Either did the gun shop for that matter as I picked up the gun from them and they are the ones that threw in the box of bullets for the rifle as I got it threaded there. I would have thought they would have known. What is the difference in the bullets ? This is my first .22 rifle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Briany82


    Thanks Cookimonster. At least now I know.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    Have a goo here,

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Winchester_Magnum_Rimfire

    picture_265255113425_zps08092bc3.jpg

    PS I'd go back and get a freebie box of wmr off the gun dealer for your troubles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Briany82 wrote: »
    Fair play mate. Im after looking and the bullets that I got with the rifle and they are Winchester LR bullets and it says on the the rifle 22 WMR. Did not even know this. Either did the gun shop for that matter as I picked up the gun from them and they are the ones that threw in the box of bullets for the rifle as I got it threaded there. I would have thought they would have known. What is the difference in the bullets ? This is my first .22 rifle.


    The .22 WMR - Winchester MAGNUM Rimfire - is a much diiferent cartridge to the .22 Long Rifle. As you can see from the handy table above, the cartridge case is longer, the bullet is slightly bigger [and heavier], and the velocity is substantially higher, with the 40gr bullet almost hitting 2000 fps. fps. By comparison, the standard .22Long Rifle is around 1040-1050 fps.

    It is NOT safe to continue what you are currently doing.

    Whoever sold you that rifle needs a bloody good kick up the a$$, and may have actually broken the law, IF it was sold to you as a .22LR.

    I'm concerned that you might have this rifle licensed as a .22LR, which it is plainly not.

    Others will no doubt advise you what to do next.

    tac


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 681 ✭✭✭ace86


    I'm concerned that you might have this rifle licensed as a .22LR, which it is plainly not.

    I think he should be fine just get the correct ammunition, I think there's no distinction between a 22Lr and 22Wmr or a 22 Hornet because its the caliber that the licence is got for basically so he should be fine .


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Never assume.

    Regardless of what is printed on your license if you, even mistakenly, applied for a .22 lr and have a .22 wmr it's a false application. As soon as the error is known it should be corrected.

    An FCA2, amendment section, should suffice. If in doubt talk to your FO, and use and FCA1 is so instructed.
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Briany82


    Well lads. License is for .22WMR.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Briany82


    Well lads. License is for .22WMR.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭deeksofdoom


    That was a bit retarded alright out of te dealer.

    However I've found that I had case splitting issues even with the winchester super X's in 22 magnum.

    They are a cheap round and they work fine, but I used to find the odd split case.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    ace86 wrote: »
    I'm concerned that you might have this rifle licensed as a .22LR, which it is plainly not.

    I think he should be fine just get the correct ammunition, I think there's no distinction between a 22Lr and 22Wmr or a 22 Hornet because its the caliber that the licence is got for basically so he should be fine .

    So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the figures '22' appear on your license, it really doesn't matter if it's a .22 Short or a 22-250? :eek:

    I really find that very hard to believe. There is a whole world of difference between even these two examples of what is, ostensibly, a .22 calibre firearm.

    As Cass notes, if the license says .22 LR it does NOT mean .22WMR.

    tac


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,482 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    tac foley wrote: »
    So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the figures '22' appear on your license, it really doesn't matter if it's a .22 Short or a 22-250? :eek:

    I really find that very hard to believe. There is a whole world of difference between even these two examples of what is, ostensibly, a .22 calibre firearm.

    As Cass notes, if the license says .22 LR it does NOT mean .22WMR.

    tac

    Licences don't specify the actual cartridge here, '.22 inches' covers .22lr, .22WMR, .22-250, .223 etc.

    Shotgun licences don't have the gauge on them at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭ejg


    If one buys a rifle or any other firearm it is ones duty to Research, read up or inform your self about the firearm, the calibre, the capabilities, dangers etc. before even touching the firearm. Safety course?
    The guy with the firearm in his hands is responsible, forget the gun dealer.
    edi


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Briany82


    Close this thread. Problem solved. Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Truly amazing.

    Given the astonishing difference between a piece of land suitable for shooting a .22 rimfire and another piece of land suitable for shooting the four times faster and longer-ranging .220 Swift......or perhaps that doesn't matter in the RoI?

    tac


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭extremetaz


    Looking at my 22LR licence right now - the exact text is as follows:

    "You are hereby authorised to have in your possession, use and carry a Rifle by REMINGTON of .220 Inches bearing the serial number ***** subject to any conditions which have been applied and advised".

    There's a second paragraph below that outlining the ammo allowance.

    So in short, there is no mention anywhere on the permit of .22LR nor any apparent distinction between it and .22WMR - basically this means that the only way of knowing what the licence is for exactly is to either have access to Pulse or be the man who filled in the form.

    So the question then becomes did you fill in the form declaring a WMR or an LR? and if the former then how could you not know the difference between the two??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 landkeeper2


    Blay wrote: »
    Licences don't specify the actual cartridge here, '.22 inches' covers .22lr, .22WMR, .22-250, .223 etc.


    mine do !! but then i put the exact calibre on the application once bitten twice shy lol


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Seems to be hit and miss and down to whatever Garda was filling in the details on PULSE (pay nothing for training, get mistakes). Mine specifies .220 inches, but I've seen .22lr on others' certs.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    tac foley wrote: »
    So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the figures '22' appear on your license, it really doesn't matter if it's a .22 Short or a 22-250? :eek:
    It does matter but as said above most times the difference in chambering is not specified on the license.
    As Cass notes, if the license says .22 LR it does NOT mean .22WMR.

    tac
    That is my fault. I should have made my position clearer. I was responding to the notion that if the OP has a ,22lr license but his firearm is actually .22 wmr, regardless of what it says on the license he should make sure that PULSE has the right chambering/details to keep on the right side of the law.
    tac foley wrote: »
    Given the astonishing difference between a piece of land suitable for shooting a .22 rimfire and another piece of land suitable for shooting the four times faster and longer-ranging .220 Swift......or perhaps that doesn't matter in the RoI?

    tac
    We don't have the same system as in the UK. Once you have land to shoot on that is all that is needed. Suitability and safety is an individuals responsibility.
    mine do !! but then i put the exact calibre on the application once bitten twice shy lol
    Most of mine have the right caliber/chambering because like yourself i give the exact details, however i have received some with a "generic" dimension on it too.

    I've seen a 12 gauge shotgun with "12.0 inches" marked on it, i've seen .308s with 762 mm on it, etc, etc. The most common fault is the various descriptions that people give that seems to be entered directly into PULSE regardless of their accuracy. By this i mean i owned a CZ .223, model 527, some years ago. Recently i spent an hour on the phone to my FO during my last substitution because i was down for 13 firearms.

    The CZ was licensed to me as CZ 527, serial no: XXXXXXX, caliber .223. However the next lad had it licensed as: CZ Brno, Serial no: XXXXXX, caliber .223. Then another lad with a completely different gun had a license for a Brno, Serial no: XXXXXXX, caliber .223.

    All three of us were still licensed on the one rifle even though none of us actually had it, and the rifle had been permanently exported some 12 months ago. I also had old guns still down to me, and the best one i ever got was a few years ago (after he pistol restriction) i applied for an Anschutz .22lr rifle. The license i got was: Anschutz, .22lr, Revolver, restricted, with silencer.

    Felt like asking Anschutz would they make me one. :D


    The point is there difference between what is printed on licenses around the country is a problem. With me there were 7 guns in my name that i no longer owned or never owned. When i got my Father to go through his he had 5 down to him. So between the 2 of us alone there were 12 guns that were not owned by us or even exist.


    PULSE should have a set criteria, and not what the person calls it. IOW all CZ rifles should be marked as CZ or CZ Brno. Then the exact model number and caliber. These should be included on the license. The chambering that is. To differentiate between the various .22 rounds.


    As for the OP. Mistakes will happen even to the most experienced of us. How many times have you heard of a 20 bore being loaded into a 12 gauge because someone kept the cartridges in the same jacket/bag? It's a lesson learned and guaranteed not to happen again.
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Cass wrote: »
    We don't have the same system as in the UK. Once you have land to shoot on that is all that is needed. Suitability and safety is an individuals responsibility.

    Right.

    PULSE should have a set criteria, and not what the person calls it. IOW all CZ rifles should be marked as CZ or CZ Brno. Then the exact model number and caliber. These should be included on the license. The chambering that is. To differentiate between the various .22 rounds.

    Absolutely agree.

    tac


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭extremetaz


    mine do !! but then i put the exact calibre on the application once bitten twice shy lol

    ...don't you have to do that?

    ...there's a box for it on the FCA1 form... :confused:


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    It's more a case of lads just writing the basic information and the FO doing the rest.

    You know the like. "What rifle is it? One that fires bullets". :D
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 681 ✭✭✭ace86


    tac foley wrote: »
    So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the figures '22' appear on your license, it really doesn't matter if it's a .22 Short or a 22-250? :eek:

    I really find that very hard to believe. There is a whole world of difference between even these two examples of what is, ostensibly, a .22 calibre firearm.

    As Cass notes, if the license says .22 LR it does NOT mean .22WMR.

    tac

    I have had 2 magnums myself and thats all that was printed on my cert was x rifle bearing serial number ****** of .220 inches but i think a 22-250 is classed as a different calibre bcos it is bigger then .220 i can be corrected on this. I use .22 lr subsonic ammunition in my magnum for humane dispatch only bcos i think a .22wmr is to powerful and cruel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    ace86 wrote: »
    ............... for humane dispatch only bcos i think a .22wmr is to powerful and cruel.

    It's only cruel when it doesn't kill cleanly and quickly.......


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    ace86 wrote: »
    I use .22 lr subsonic ammunition in my magnum for humane dispatch only bcos i think a .22wmr is to powerful and cruel.
    anigif_enhanced-23345-1398074813-11.gif


    Joking, but seriously though. Too cruel, and too powerful. Why did you buy a magnum at all? Why not just have a .22lr? Also how are you getting .22lr ammo if your licensed on a .22wmr. If your dealer has recorded any sales of .22lr ammo to you, and PULSE shows you being licensed on a .22 wmr it can lead to trouble.

    I'm not scare mongering here. It may never happen, but it's no different to me buying .220 swift ammo because my rimfire license says .220 on the back of it.

    Lastly while the pressure will not cause a catastrophic failure it must be some pain in the ass to keep hand feeding the ammo. Not to mention your chamber must be in some state?
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭deeksofdoom


    ace86 wrote: »
    I use .22 lr subsonic ammunition in my magnum for humane dispatch only bcos i think a .22wmr is to powerful and cruel.

    2 questions

    What could you possibly be humanely dispatching with .22lr subsonics in a .22wmr?

    How can a .22wmr be to powerful and cruel for humane dispatch? (depending on what your humanely dispatching)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭Dian Cecht


    Cass wrote: »
    Not to mention your chamber must be in some state?

    Can you explain please?

    A friend of mine uses .22 shorts in his .22lr. Is this OK?


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The lead of the bullets would not do any real damage so that is not where i'm coming from. However the length difference between a .22lr and a .22 wmr is fairly significant especially in gun terms where everything is done in thousandths of an inch.

    So if you have a .22 wmr designed to take ammo with a case length of 1.055" (26.8mm) and you are firing .22lr with case length of 0.613 (15.6mm) you have 0.442" (11.2mm) difference. Allowing for a moment that the bullets are the same length (forget about diameter) you have a bullet "jumping" a miniimum of 11mm to engage the lands and groves.

    Then through into the mix the difference in diameter of the cases (hence the sitting) the wear and tear from trying to extract cracked cases, etc. and the chamber is taking unnecessary and pointless damage, fouling and abuse. Why do it. It's like buying a .308 to fire .243 through it. If you want to fire .243 then buy a .243. If you want to fire .22lr then buy one.

    One other aspect to think of is if something did go wrong any insurance you have would be void as you are knowingly and actively shooting improper ammo. So the rifle manufacturer, your insurance company, etc will wash their hands of you.


    As for your mate. A similar situation as above, but not as severe. The dimensions of a short to a LR is almost identical bar the overall length (OAL). It;s only about 4mm in the difference. However the case diameter, bullet, neck, base, etc. are all the same.


    Maybe i'm wrong. Maybe there is no damage being done. But i would not buy or touch a rifle from someone using the wrong ammo in it. Purposely.
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