RIFLE PROBLEM

Briany82

I just picked up a gun I bought there today. I bought it second hand off a fella I know. There seems to be a problem. About one in 4 to 5 bullets is getting lodged in chamber of rifle. When the bullet fires it is actually splitting the casing of the bullet causing it to lodge in chamber. Pics of bullets attached. I was just wondering if anyone had encountered this problem before and if so what was the remedy ? The gun is a MARLIN MAGNUM .22. Also dont know if this is linked but the bullets are not chambering properly from magazine. When the bolt picks up the bullet it pulls it from mag and then it just bounces around the place. It takes a bit of messing to get it lined up to slot into chamber and then once fired it will not eject bullet every time. Im not impressed. Just wondering if anyone has any possible solutions. Thanks.

cookimonster

Just out of curiosity, are they 22 WMR or 22 LR ?
Reason being is AFAIK 22LR will split in a 22WMR

tomcat220t

Briany82 wrote: »

I just picked up a gun I bought there today. I bought it second hand off a fella I know. There seems to be a problem. About one in 4 to 5 bullets is getting lodged in chamber of rifle. When the bullet fires it is actually splitting the casing of the bullet causing it to lodge in chamber. Pics of bullets attached. I was just wondering if anyone had encountered this problem before and if so what was the remedy ? The gun is a MARLIN MAGNUM .22. Also dont know if this is linked but the bullets are not chambering properly from magazine. When the bolt picks up the bullet it pulls it from mag and then it just bounces around the place. It takes a bit of messing to get it lined up to slot into chamber and then once fired it will not eject bullet every time. Im not impressed. Just wondering if anyone has any possible solutions. Thanks.

Hi Briany, are you shooting .22lr in a .22 mag chamber ?The mag chamber is a little larger dia. and could cause the .22lr to split .
Regards ,Tomcat.

cookimonster

Here's are the specs in comparison to each cartridge:

Briany82

Fair play mate. Im after looking and the bullets that I got with the rifle and they are Winchester LR bullets and it says on the the rifle 22 WMR. Did not even know this. Either did the gun shop for that matter as I picked up the gun from them and they are the ones that threw in the box of bullets for the rifle as I got it threaded there. I would have thought they would have known. What is the difference in the bullets ? This is my first .22 rifle.

Briany82

Thanks Cookimonster. At least now I know.

cookimonster

Have a goo here,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Winchester_Magnum_Rimfire



PS I'd go back and get a freebie box of wmr off the gun dealer for your troubles.

tac foley

Briany82 wrote: »

Fair play mate. Im after looking and the bullets that I got with the rifle and they are Winchester LR bullets and it says on the the rifle 22 WMR. Did not even know this. Either did the gun shop for that matter as I picked up the gun from them and they are the ones that threw in the box of bullets for the rifle as I got it threaded there. I would have thought they would have known. What is the difference in the bullets ? This is my first .22 rifle.

The .22 WMR - Winchester MAGNUM Rimfire - is a much diiferent cartridge to the .22 Long Rifle. As you can see from the handy table above, the cartridge case is longer, the bullet is slightly bigger [and heavier], and the velocity is substantially higher, with the 40gr bullet almost hitting 2000 fps. fps. By comparison, the standard .22Long Rifle is around 1040-1050 fps.

It is NOT safe to continue what you are currently doing.

Whoever sold you that rifle needs a bloody good kick up the a$$, and may have actually broken the law, IF it was sold to you as a .22LR.

I'm concerned that you might have this rifle licensed as a .22LR, which it is plainly not.

Others will no doubt advise you what to do next.

tac

ace86

I'm concerned that you might have this rifle licensed as a .22LR, which it is plainly not.

I think he should be fine just get the correct ammunition, I think there's no distinction between a 22Lr and 22Wmr or a 22 Hornet because its the caliber that the licence is got for basically so he should be fine .

Cass

Never assume.

Regardless of what is printed on your license if you, even mistakenly, applied for a .22 lr and have a .22 wmr it's a false application. As soon as the error is known it should be corrected.

An FCA2, amendment section, should suffice. If in doubt talk to your FO, and use and FCA1 is so instructed.

Briany82

Well lads. License is for .22WMR.

Briany82

Well lads. License is for .22WMR.

deeksofdoom

That was a bit retarded alright out of te dealer.

However I've found that I had case splitting issues even with the winchester super X's in 22 magnum.

They are a cheap round and they work fine, but I used to find the odd split case.

tac foley

ace86 wrote: »

I'm concerned that you might have this rifle licensed as a .22LR, which it is plainly not.

I think he should be fine just get the correct ammunition, I think there's no distinction between a 22Lr and 22Wmr or a 22 Hornet because its the caliber that the licence is got for basically so he should be fine .

So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the figures '22' appear on your license, it really doesn't matter if it's a .22 Short or a 22-250? :eek:

I really find that very hard to believe. There is a whole world of difference between even these two examples of what is, ostensibly, a .22 calibre firearm.

As Cass notes, if the license says .22 LR it does NOT mean .22WMR.

tac

Witcher

tac foley wrote: »

So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the figures '22' appear on your license, it really doesn't matter if it's a .22 Short or a 22-250? :eek:

I really find that very hard to believe. There is a whole world of difference between even these two examples of what is, ostensibly, a .22 calibre firearm.

As Cass notes, if the license says .22 LR it does NOT mean .22WMR.

tac

Licences don't specify the actual cartridge here, '.22 inches' covers .22lr, .22WMR, .22-250, .223 etc.

Shotgun licences don't have the gauge on them at all.

ejg

If one buys a rifle or any other firearm it is ones duty to Research, read up or inform your self about the firearm, the calibre, the capabilities, dangers etc. before even touching the firearm. Safety course?
The guy with the firearm in his hands is responsible, forget the gun dealer.
edi

Briany82

Close this thread. Problem solved. Thanks.

tac foley

Truly amazing.

Given the astonishing difference between a piece of land suitable for shooting a .22 rimfire and another piece of land suitable for shooting the four times faster and longer-ranging .220 Swift......or perhaps that doesn't matter in the RoI?

tac

extremetaz

Looking at my 22LR licence right now - the exact text is as follows:

"You are hereby authorised to have in your possession, use and carry a Rifle by REMINGTON of .220 Inches bearing the serial number ***** subject to any conditions which have been applied and advised".

There's a second paragraph below that outlining the ammo allowance.

So in short, there is no mention anywhere on the permit of .22LR nor any apparent distinction between it and .22WMR - basically this means that the only way of knowing what the licence is for exactly is to either have access to Pulse or be the man who filled in the form.

So the question then becomes did you fill in the form declaring a WMR or an LR? and if the former then how could you not know the difference between the two??

landkeeper2

Blay wrote: »

Licences don't specify the actual cartridge here, '.22 inches' covers .22lr, .22WMR, .22-250, .223 etc.

mine do !! but then i put the exact calibre on the application once bitten twice shy lol

Sparks

Seems to be hit and miss and down to whatever Garda was filling in the details on PULSE (pay nothing for training, get mistakes). Mine specifies .220 inches, but I've seen .22lr on others' certs.

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the figures '22' appear on your license, it really doesn't matter if it's a .22 Short or a 22-250? :eek:

It does matter but as said above most times the difference in chambering is not specified on the license.

As Cass notes, if the license says .22 LR it does NOT mean .22WMR.

tac

That is my fault. I should have made my position clearer. I was responding to the notion that if the OP has a ,22lr license but his firearm is actually .22 wmr, regardless of what it says on the license he should make sure that PULSE has the right chambering/details to keep on the right side of the law.

tac foley wrote: »

Given the astonishing difference between a piece of land suitable for shooting a .22 rimfire and another piece of land suitable for shooting the four times faster and longer-ranging .220 Swift......or perhaps that doesn't matter in the RoI?

tac

We don't have the same system as in the UK. Once you have land to shoot on that is all that is needed. Suitability and safety is an individuals responsibility.

landkeeper2 wrote: »

mine do !! but then i put the exact calibre on the application once bitten twice shy lol

Most of mine have the right caliber/chambering because like yourself i give the exact details, however i have received some with a "generic" dimension on it too.

I've seen a 12 gauge shotgun with "12.0 inches" marked on it, i've seen .308s with 762 mm on it, etc, etc. The most common fault is the various descriptions that people give that seems to be entered directly into PULSE regardless of their accuracy. By this i mean i owned a CZ .223, model 527, some years ago. Recently i spent an hour on the phone to my FO during my last substitution because i was down for 13 firearms.

The CZ was licensed to me as CZ 527, serial no: XXXXXXX, caliber .223. However the next lad had it licensed as: CZ Brno, Serial no: XXXXXX, caliber .223. Then another lad with a completely different gun had a license for a Brno, Serial no: XXXXXXX, caliber .223.

All three of us were still licensed on the one rifle even though none of us actually had it, and the rifle had been permanently exported some 12 months ago. I also had old guns still down to me, and the best one i ever got was a few years ago (after he pistol restriction) i applied for an Anschutz .22lr rifle. The license i got was: Anschutz, .22lr, Revolver, restricted, with silencer.

Felt like asking Anschutz would they make me one.


The point is there difference between what is printed on licenses around the country is a problem. With me there were 7 guns in my name that i no longer owned or never owned. When i got my Father to go through his he had 5 down to him. So between the 2 of us alone there were 12 guns that were not owned by us or even exist.


PULSE should have a set criteria, and not what the person calls it. IOW all CZ rifles should be marked as CZ or CZ Brno. Then the exact model number and caliber. These should be included on the license. The chambering that is. To differentiate between the various .22 rounds.


As for the OP. Mistakes will happen even to the most experienced of us. How many times have you heard of a 20 bore being loaded into a 12 gauge because someone kept the cartridges in the same jacket/bag? It's a lesson learned and guaranteed not to happen again.

tac foley

Cass wrote: »

We don't have the same system as in the UK. Once you have land to shoot on that is all that is needed. Suitability and safety is an individuals responsibility.

Right.

PULSE should have a set criteria, and not what the person calls it. IOW all CZ rifles should be marked as CZ or CZ Brno. Then the exact model number and caliber. These should be included on the license. The chambering that is. To differentiate between the various .22 rounds.

Absolutely agree.

tac

extremetaz

landkeeper2 wrote: »

mine do !! but then i put the exact calibre on the application once bitten twice shy lol

...don't you have to do that?

...there's a box for it on the FCA1 form...

Cass

It's more a case of lads just writing the basic information and the FO doing the rest.

You know the like. "What rifle is it? One that fires bullets".

ace86

tac foley wrote: »

So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the figures '22' appear on your license, it really doesn't matter if it's a .22 Short or a 22-250? :eek:

I really find that very hard to believe. There is a whole world of difference between even these two examples of what is, ostensibly, a .22 calibre firearm.

As Cass notes, if the license says .22 LR it does NOT mean .22WMR.

tac

I have had 2 magnums myself and thats all that was printed on my cert was x rifle bearing serial number ****** of .220 inches but i think a 22-250 is classed as a different calibre bcos it is bigger then .220 i can be corrected on this. I use .22 lr subsonic ammunition in my magnum for humane dispatch only bcos i think a .22wmr is to powerful and cruel.

cookimonster

ace86 wrote: »

............... for humane dispatch only bcos i think a .22wmr is to powerful and cruel.

It's only cruel when it doesn't kill cleanly and quickly.......

Cass

ace86 wrote: »

I use .22 lr subsonic ammunition in my magnum for humane dispatch only bcos i think a .22wmr is to powerful and cruel.

Joking, but seriously though. Too cruel, and too powerful. Why did you buy a magnum at all? Why not just have a .22lr? Also how are you getting .22lr ammo if your licensed on a .22wmr. If your dealer has recorded any sales of .22lr ammo to you, and PULSE shows you being licensed on a .22 wmr it can lead to trouble.

I'm not scare mongering here. It may never happen, but it's no different to me buying .220 swift ammo because my rimfire license says .220 on the back of it.

Lastly while the pressure will not cause a catastrophic failure it must be some pain in the ass to keep hand feeding the ammo. Not to mention your chamber must be in some state?

deeksofdoom

ace86 wrote: »

I use .22 lr subsonic ammunition in my magnum for humane dispatch only bcos i think a .22wmr is to powerful and cruel.

2 questions

What could you possibly be humanely dispatching with .22lr subsonics in a .22wmr?

How can a .22wmr be to powerful and cruel for humane dispatch? (depending on what your humanely dispatching)

Dian Cecht

Cass wrote: »

Not to mention your chamber must be in some state?

Can you explain please?

A friend of mine uses .22 shorts in his .22lr. Is this OK?

Cass

The lead of the bullets would not do any real damage so that is not where i'm coming from. However the length difference between a .22lr and a .22 wmr is fairly significant especially in gun terms where everything is done in thousandths of an inch.

So if you have a .22 wmr designed to take ammo with a case length of 1.055" (26.8mm) and you are firing .22lr with case length of 0.613 (15.6mm) you have 0.442" (11.2mm) difference. Allowing for a moment that the bullets are the same length (forget about diameter) you have a bullet "jumping" a miniimum of 11mm to engage the lands and groves.

Then through into the mix the difference in diameter of the cases (hence the sitting) the wear and tear from trying to extract cracked cases, etc. and the chamber is taking unnecessary and pointless damage, fouling and abuse. Why do it. It's like buying a .308 to fire .243 through it. If you want to fire .243 then buy a .243. If you want to fire .22lr then buy one.

One other aspect to think of is if something did go wrong any insurance you have would be void as you are knowingly and actively shooting improper ammo. So the rifle manufacturer, your insurance company, etc will wash their hands of you.


As for your mate. A similar situation as above, but not as severe. The dimensions of a short to a LR is almost identical bar the overall length (OAL). It;s only about 4mm in the difference. However the case diameter, bullet, neck, base, etc. are all the same.


Maybe i'm wrong. Maybe there is no damage being done. But i would not buy or touch a rifle from someone using the wrong ammo in it. Purposely.

ace86

deeksofdoom wrote: »

2 questions

What could you possibly be humanely dispatching with .22lr subsonics in a .22wmr?

How can a .22wmr be to powerful and cruel for humane dispatch? (depending on what your humanely dispatching)

.22 wmr has nearly twice the charge of a .22lr and i use it for dispatching mink mostly and I want to kill them not blow them apart,I have used the .22wmr and its very cruel up close to be honest regardless if fellows think its only .22.

ace86

Cass wrote: »

Joking, but seriously though. Too cruel, and too powerful. Why did you buy a magnum at all? Why not just have a .22lr? Also how are you getting .22lr ammo if your licensed on a .22wmr. If your dealer has recorded any sales of .22lr ammo to you, and PULSE shows you being licensed on a .22 wmr it can lead to trouble.

I'm not scare mongering here. It may never happen, but it's no different to me buying .220 swift ammo because my rimfire license says .220 on the back of it.

Lastly while the pressure will not cause a catastrophic failure it must be some pain in the ass to keep hand feeding the ammo. Not to mention your chamber must be in some state?

I always had a magnum it was my 1st .22 that i owned and I always liked them and when i got into trapping and things i used the ammo once on dispatching a mink and i said never again and i looked at lower charged ammo for dispatching but they were all the same league. A friend had a.22lr and he used subsonics on dispatching and they did the job so i got them myself and I was happy with them. I know guys are going to be on my case about how I got the subsonics,licencing, damage to rifle etc but look I feel they are sufficient for what I needed them for.

TriggerPL

I'm sorry but any one that puts 22lr in a 22Magnum and does not realise the potential danger is a f ing retard in my books . You wouldn put a 410 shell in a 12g and pull the trigger .

And how the hell is subsonic more humane that magnum bullets. . Dead is dead and subsonic have a tendency to not kill first shot so ur statement is stupid . Like Kim kardashin stupid . Couple with the face that u don't have a licence for a lr in the first place and still buying bullets for one .

Really begs the question should you even have a firearm !!

ace86

TriggerPL wrote: »

I'm sorry but any one that puts 22lr in a 22Magnum and does not realise the potential danger is a f ing retard in my books . You wouldn put a 410 shell in a 12g and pull the trigger .

And how the hell is subsonic more humane that magnum bullets. . Dead is dead and subsonic have a tendency to not kill first shot so ur statement is stupid . Like Kim kardashin stupid . Couple with the face that u don't have a licence for a lr in the first place and still buying bullets for one .

Really begs the question should you even have a firearm !!

well ur entitled to ur opinion but i wouldnt put 410 shell in a 12g shotgun bcos i know i would have problems im not that stupid man regardless if think what i do is wrong.

TriggerPL

Mate it not what I think ur doing is wrong ! It completely wrong for so many reasons , most is the sheer legal aspect of it and ur saying it on a public forum that believe it or not can be traced back to u .

And the potential danger of it . Ya wonder why guns licence are hard to get and why people are so set against guns .

Well it's because of stupid acts like this .

This thread really points out that gun education in this country is a joke .

Cass

Lads,

Keep it civil.

ace86

TriggerPL wrote: »

Mate it not what I think ur doing is wrong ! It completely wrong for so many reasons , most is the sheer legal aspect of it and ur saying it on a public forum that believe it or not can be traced back to u .

And the potential danger of it . Ya wonder why guns licence are hard to get and why people are so set against guns .

Well it's because of stupid acts like this .

This thread really points out that gun education in this country is a joke .

Yes i know what ur saying but just on the legal aspect of it but the law in this country is backward but for argument sake I have a licence for .22 but doesn't specific .22lr .22wmr,.22 hornet etc why can't I buy ammo for any .22 am I legally wrong? I'm not going to buy .22lr and .22wmr for hornet or swift guns, and what the guy has shown in the pictures here at start of thread normally happens were cases shatter or else they eject no problem and my argument there is no danger really but I know you will disagree with me along with many others.

Cass

ace86 wrote: »

Yes i know what ur saying but just on the legal aspect of it but the law in this country is backward but for argument sake I have a licence for .22 but doesn't specific .22lr .22wmr,.22 hornet etc why can't I buy ammo for any .22 am I legally wrong?

You cannot ignore the laws you don't like, and yes you are wrong.

What did you apply for when going for the license? A .22wmr or .22lr?

It's rhetorical. You applied for a .22wmr as that is what you have. So buying anything else is illegal and any dealer selling you ammo you don't have a license for is also illegal.

Just so you know because it is not the exact specifics on your license does not mean it is not on PULSE. As i said earlier int he thread by that reasoning i can buy .220 swift, .223, .204, .22wmr, etc because my license is .22 and they all fall into that family.


Serious lad stop while you're behind.

ace86

Cass wrote: »

You cannot ignore the laws you don't like, and yes you are wrong.

What did you apply for when going for the license? A .22wmr or .22lr?

It's rhetorical. You applied for a .22wmr as that is what you have. So buying anything else is illegal and any dealer selling you ammo you don't have a license for is also illegal.

Just so you know because it is not the exact specifics on your license does not mean it is not on PULSE. As i said earlier int he thread by that reasoning i can buy .220 swift, .223, .204, .22wmr, etc because my license is .22 and they all fall into that family.


Serious lad stop while you're behind.

I not ignoring I just asking really bcos thats all i ever got on my licences was just .220 after that no mention of lr wmr etc. always had a . 22wmr and will to be honest.

TriggerPL

First off. , I'm going to calmly point out that you do not have a licence for a .22 , u have a licence for a .22magnum , you can buy ammo for the gun that matches the serial number on ur licence , which is .22magnum .

Secondly because the difference in chamber lent ever time u fire a shot u cause chamber wear , which have the potential to leave the gun not functional or eventually clog up the chamber so the bullet won't exit , mix with back pressure although small from a sub sonic , mix with the potential weaking of the chamber from wear and tear can lead to major malfunction , potential unjury to ur self or others .

And that's just with sub sonic what happens when u decide to put a magnum bullet on and them it decides to malfunction .

Guns are designed to fire certain bullets , any misuse leads to potential danger .


Of course I'm open to correction

ace86

TriggerPL wrote: »

First off. , I'm going to calmly point out that you do not have a licence for a .22 , u have a licence for a .22magnum , you can buy ammo for the gun that matches the serial number on ur licence , which is .22magnum .

Secondly because the difference in chamber lent ever time u fire a shot u cause chamber wear , which have the potential to leave the gun not functional or eventually clog up the chamber so the bullet won't exit , mix with back pressure although small from a sub sonic , mix with the potential weaking of the chamber from wear and tear can lead to major malfunction , potential unjury to ur self or others .

And that's just with sub sonic what happens when u decide to put a magnum bullet on and them it decides to malfunction .

Guns are designed to fire certain bullets , any misuse leads to potential danger .


Of course I'm open to correction

Sound I do Understand what ur saying and thanks for your input I going to say no more on the subject now to be honest.

vixdname

TriggerPL wrote: »

First off. , I'm going to calmly point out that you do not have a licence for a .22 , u have a licence for a .22magnum , you can buy ammo for the gun that matches the serial number on ur licence , which is .22magnum .

Secondly because the difference in chamber lent ever time u fire a shot u cause chamber wear , which have the potential to leave the gun not functional or eventually clog up the chamber so the bullet won't exit , mix with back pressure although small from a sub sonic , mix with the potential weaking of the chamber from wear and tear can lead to major malfunction , potential unjury to ur self or others .

And that's just with sub sonic what happens when u decide to put a magnum bullet on and them it decides to malfunction .

Guns are designed to fire certain bullets , any misuse leads to potential danger .


Of course I'm open to correction

Well put, using any form of round not specifically designed for your gun is decidedly hazardous to say the least.


I hope the culprit takes heed, if not for his sake and safety, then for those around him when he fire that rifle

TriggerPL

Mate it may look like we're having a go at ya , but if anyone posted that they would get the same reply . So don't take offence to it , ur gun licence is a valuable thing , if you want a .22lr buy one u can pick them up for about 100 quid in some dealers . And do the thing right

deeksofdoom

Well as Trigger said 'dead is dead'.

Despite the legal aspects, its still dangerous to be firing into a mink trap like that there's a risk of ricochet.

I suggest you give up mink trapping until you find a method of dispatch which is 1. not so dangerous and 2. you can live with how you've dispatched it.

Nekarsulm

Well leaving aside all the legal aspects, I would like to congratulate the original poster. He has
got the rifle he wanted, in a great calibre, and when he gets a box of Magnum ammo and gives his gun a really good cleaning, he should have a great set up. How was the accuracy with the LR rounds, or had you got a chance to pattern them?

Actually, in response to an earlier poster, I don't think use of subsonics would ever be able to cause failure of the breach or chamber in a Magnum rifle.play hell with accuracy though.

And yeah, he got the advice he needed in jig time.

rsole1

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Well as Trigger said 'dead is dead'.

Despite the legal aspects, its still dangerous to be firing into a mink trap like that there's a risk of ricochet.

I suggest you give up mink trapping until you find a method of dispatch which is 1. not so dangerous and 2. you can live with how you've dispatched it.

I shoot magpies that I trap with them 22lr rat shot ammo. From a foot away dead is dead. Am I doing anything legally / morally wrong?

deeksofdoom

rsole1 wrote: »

I shoot magpies that I trap with them 22lr rat shot ammo. From a foot away dead is dead. Am I doing anything legally / morally wrong?

What do you want me to say?

No your not. I normally just wring their necks. Are you afraid you'll get pecked or something

extremetaz

Dian Cecht wrote: »

A friend of mine uses .22 shorts in his .22lr. Is this OK?

Didn't see this question addressed - the answer is that it can be. There are many older "22LR" that will also fire 22short and 22long. It'll be written on the barrel.

In the absense of it being specifically written on the barrel, then the chamber/chambering mechanism isn't designed for anything but 22LR.


As to blowing a mink apart being cruel - honestly, I don't think it gives a damn, so no, not cruel.

...seriously messy though I'll grant you.


*Edit: For example


My old Remi is designed to take all three.

deeksofdoom

extremetaz wrote: »

My old Remi is designed to take all three.

YOUR BREAKING THE LAW!!

You need three seperate licences for that!:P

€240 euro please ching, ching.
:D:D:D:D:D:D

Cass

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Actually, in response to an earlier poster, I don't think use of subsonics would ever be able to cause failure of the breach or chamber in a Magnum rifle.play hell with accuracy though.

Correct. As said above:

Cass wrote: »

Lastly while the pressure will not cause a catastrophic failure....................

So it won't cause a serious failure, but it's still bad practice.

extremetaz wrote: »

Didn't see this question addressed - the answer is that it can be. There are many older "22LR" that will also fire 22short and 22long. It'll be written on the barrel.

Better than my response:

Cass wrote: »

As for your mate. A similar situation as above, but not as severe. The dimensions of a short to a LR is almost identical bar the overall length (OAL). It's only about 4mm in the difference. However the case diameter, bullet, neck, base, etc. are all the same.

rsole1 wrote: »

I shoot magpies that I trap with them 22lr rat shot ammo. From a foot away dead is dead. Am I doing anything legally / morally wrong?

Not that i would say. Rat shot is .22lr ammo and if it kills, as the lads have said above, then it's done it's job.