Prophecy regarding Russia

DM addict · 09-05-2014 08:29PM

I have a question (from a non-religious standpoint) and I don't intend to be rude/offend - my apologies if I do.

I saw this thread and clicked out of curiousity - and I genuinely didn't know that there were modern prophets around, or that Christians still believed them (quite happy to admit that this is through my own ignorance - I was raised without religion, and have little/no scriptural knowledge). My question is, how widespread is the belief in these prophecies, and how many interpretations are there? Are there a few events/figures who are widely accepted to be on the horizon, and the rest is a little unclear? Is the belief in prophecy a majority or minority view within Catholicism?

Again, I do not mean to offend, I'm just curious - I was under the impression that the whole prophecies about the end of the world thing was more prevalent in evangelical types than in Catholicism.

bennyineire · 09-05-2014 08:51PM

Does this mean I'll get the witness the re-unity gig for "The Jimi Hendrix Experience" when the good lord decides to show his ass to us for the second time. Praise be Jimi

newmug · 09-05-2014 09:04PM

DM addict wrote: »

I have a question (from a non-religious standpoint) and I don't intend to be rude/offend - my apologies if I do.

I saw this thread and clicked out of curiousity - and I genuinely didn't know that there were modern prophets around, or that Christians still believed them (quite happy to admit that this is through my own ignorance - I was raised without religion, and have little/no scriptural knowledge). My question is, how widespread is the belief in these prophecies, and how many interpretations are there? Are there a few events/figures who are widely accepted to be on the horizon, and the rest is a little unclear? Is the belief in prophecy a majority or minority view within Catholicism?

Again, I do not mean to offend, I'm just curious - I was under the impression that the whole prophecies about the end of the world thing was more prevalent in evangelical types than in Catholicism.

I'll answer you as a Catholic, but by no means do I speak for all Catholics or from an "official" Catholic POV. This is just my personal opinion, and I'm Catholic.

The whole "end of the world" thing is part and parcel of Christianity. Its written in the Bible, that one day Jesus will return, kick arse, and then the world will end. What will happen is that everybody, alive and dead, will be judged according to how they lived, and then they will either go to Heaven or Hell.

Now, regarding prophets and prophecies, they come and go all the time, always have, always will. Some I believe, some I don't. Same with most Catholics. You don't have to believe any particular prophecies to call yourself a Catholic.

Now, the Church "approves" some prophecies. That's not to say they endorse them, just that they agree something supernatural took place, and it looks like it was genuine. They do a fairly extensive scientific stress test on any claimed visions, messages etc. Most claims actually fail.

Regarding most of these Marian visions, the spooky thing is most of the predictions came true. And these are BIG predictions. World wars, assassination attempts, cultural upheavals. A spate of them have happened in the last hundred years or two (Fatima, Lourdes, Knock, Garabandal, Medjegory, Guadeloupe) and the common theme seems to be that Jesus's second coming is just around the corner, and he's p1ssed off at people for not living in a Christian way. The few predictions that haven't come true YET don't have much time to come to fruition, eg. the case of Joey Lomangino - Mary promised his sight would be restored before he dies, and that it would happen at a major supernatural event relating to her predictions - he's 83(?) now.

Another spooky thing is all the coincidences that occur around these prophecies. Too many to list, but just take the Severmorsk explosion for example. In 1984, Russia was about to launch one last attack on the west. A massive fire destroyed their Northern Naval fleet, and most of their missiles, thwarting WW3. Google what date it happened on? Then Google what date Pope John-Paul 2 was shot? Then the date of the first apparition at Fatima? These things cant possibly be orchestrated.

indy_man · 09-05-2014 10:04PM

newmug wrote: »

I'll answer you as a Catholic, but by no means do I speak for all Catholics or from an "official" Catholic POV. This is just my personal opinion, and I'm Catholic.

The whole "end of the world" thing is part and parcel of Christianity. Its written in the Bible, that one day Jesus will return, kick arse, and then the world will end. What will happen is that everybody, alive and dead, will be judged according to how they lived, and then they will either go to Heaven or Hell.

Now, regarding prophets and prophecies, they come and go all the time, always have, always will. Some I believe, some I don't. Same with most Catholics. You don't have to believe any particular prophecies to call yourself a Catholic.

Now, the Church "approves" some prophecies. That's not to say they endorse them, just that they agree something supernatural took place, and it looks like it was genuine. They do a fairly extensive scientific stress test on any claimed visions, messages etc. Most claims actually fail.

Regarding most of these Marian visions, the spooky thing is most of the predictions came true. And these are BIG predictions. World wars, assassination attempts, cultural upheavals. A spate of them have happened in the last hundred years or two (Fatima, Lourdes, Knock, Garabandal, Medjegory, Guadeloupe) and the common theme seems to be that Jesus's second coming is just around the corner, and he's p1ssed off at people for not living in a Christian way. The few predictions that haven't come true YET don't have much time to come to fruition, eg. the case of Joey Lomangino - Mary promised his sight would be restored before he dies, and that it would happen at a major supernatural event relating to her predictions - he's 83(?) now.

Another spooky thing is all the coincidences that occur around these prophecies. Too many to list, but just take the Severmorsk explosion for example. In 1984, Russia was about to launch one last attack on the west. A massive fire destroyed their Northern Naval fleet, and most of their missiles, thwarting WW3. Google what date it happened on? Then Google what date Pope John-Paul 2 was shot? Then the date of the first apparition at Fatima? These things cant possibly be orchestrated.

Newmug you explain this very well. Catholicism has an extensive list of approved apparitions and associated prophecies and many are coming to what it seems as some kind of conclusion soon or you could say as a result of mankind's actions. As a Catholic and as a Christian we see the signs all around us and the pace of signs appearing is increasing right now.

Newmug you mention Garabandal, I am a believer in this amazing series of apparitions as was Padre Pio and many others. One message given to Chonchita Gonzalaez was "When Communism Comes Again, Everything Will Happen"

Did anyone see footage from the V day parade in Moscow... Is this not chilling? Is communism coming again.

v-day.jpg

Remember Stalin painted himself as a saint once to get on the side of the people, then he slaughtered millions of Christians.

saint.jpg

Time to get close to God people and pray.

If you want to know what "Everything" means regarding Garabandal, then watch some of the documentaries about Garabandal.

DM addict · 09-05-2014 10:18PM

Thanks indy man and new guy- whole bunch of info there I didn't know. Very informative. I had no idea there were people who went around and authenticated prophecies- although it makes sense, as soon as I think about it.

Thanks again for the clarification

ryan101 · 09-05-2014 10:53PM

DM addict wrote: »

I have a question (from a non-religious standpoint) and I don't intend to be rude/offend - my apologies if I do.

I saw this thread and clicked out of curiousity - and I genuinely didn't know that there were modern prophets around, or that Christians still believed them (quite happy to admit that this is through my own ignorance - I was raised without religion, and have little/no scriptural knowledge). My question is, how widespread is the belief in these prophecies, and how many interpretations are there? Are there a few events/figures who are widely accepted to be on the horizon, and the rest is a little unclear? Is the belief in prophecy a majority or minority view within Catholicism?

Again, I do not mean to offend, I'm just curious - I was under the impression that the whole prophecies about the end of the world thing was more prevalent in evangelical types than in Catholicism.

Civil questions never offend DM, Newmug gave a very good summary for something that is very hard to summarise.

I would just add that official teaching of the Catholic Church is that the last public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle.

Regarding predicting the end of the world, it doesn't have a big focus in Catholicism at all. Mainstream Catholicism, with good reason, shies away from that stuff completely.

As Christ says in Gospels the “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father

“Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn."

So, for Catholics, if you hear of anyone trying to predict the imminent end of the word, it is bunkum

Now . . apparitions . .

The very very rarely officially approved Catholic apparitions, like Lourdes and Fatima are treated as private revelation only, and they cannot contradict current teaching or add to it, they can only emphasis and reiterate parts and aspects of Catholic teaching in the current age. And, very importantly, as they are private revelations, no Catholic is actually obliged to believe in any apparition from Knock to Fatima, but they are permitted to believe, in the officially approved apparitions, if they wish to, and many/some do.

Again, the main emphasis of any approved apparition is always to just re-emphasise current Catholic teaching for the current age.
Usually in these apparitions the continued importance of mass, prayer, repentance, fasting, and scripture, is emphasised. They are rarely any more complicated than that.

As a side issue to re-emphasising Catholic teaching, some of these approved apparitions also sometimes obscurely predict world changing events, they are not the main focus of the apparition, and these prophecies never predict the actual end of the world.

However, as the Catholic Church is a very broad Church of 1 billion Catholics, a small minority of Catholics do sometimes get very hung up and side tracked onto prophecies, rather than the main message of the apparitions.

Some of these people, then end up unintentionally splitting off and following all sorts of obscure interpretations of approved apparitions and unapproved apparitions, that often contradict Catholic teaching completely. But, for those that know their Gospel, not following and running after false prophets and interpretations was one of the most important warnings in the scriptures.

The main message for Catholics in all of this is that if you remember to keep emphasising mass, prayer, repentance, fasting, and scripture, in your life, any world changing events that go on around you will be ultimately irrelevant to your spiritual well being and salvation.

indy_man · 09-05-2014 11:05PM

Agreed. St John of the cross had no time at all for private revelation and it is well advised to stick to approved apparitions if any at all, but my reason for starting this thread was to discuss the possibility that current events in Ukraine and Russia align with various approved apparitions and prophecies.

Indeed too much prophecy will lead to false prophecy and there is way too much false prophecy and wrong conspiracy floating around particularly on youtube.

antiskeptic · 09-05-2014 11:49PM

indy_man wrote: »

Acts 2:17-18
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

The trouble is, we first have to test the prophets in order to begin to suppose it's last days. Therein lies the problem..

Why are there so many great prophets in the Bible if we are to ignore prophecy?

We're not to ignore it. We're to test it. And unless someone can point to something concrete predicted to occur (wars, nations falling and errors of Russia don't qualify given their imprecision) then you can't distinguish it from guff.

j80ezgvc3p92xu · 10-05-2014 12:06PM

Well Jesus said somewhere in Matthew's gospel that the Second Coming will occur after "wars and rumors of war" . What happened in Syria and now in the Ukraine makes you wonder...

ryan101 · 10-05-2014 12:51PM

Braelyn Victorious Sunspot wrote: »

Well Jesus said somewhere in Matthew's gospel that the Second Coming will occur after "wars and rumors of war" . What happened in Syria and now in the Ukraine makes you wonder...

There are always wars and rumours of wars.

indy_man · 11-05-2014 12:24AM

antiskeptic wrote: »

The trouble is, we first have to test the prophets in order to begin to suppose it's last days. Therein lies the problem..

We're not to ignore it. We're to test it. And unless someone can point to something concrete predicted to occur (wars, nations falling and errors of Russia don't qualify given their imprecision) then you can't distinguish it from guff.

The return of communism was predicted. After the return of communism the warning of Garabandal will appear in the sky also mentioned by St Faustina and as the sign in the sky in Revelation. This will be a cross in the sky. Many believe this will be in the next few years, so lets see if communism spreads across Europe again..

.

ryan101 · 11-05-2014 12:30AM

Just for the info of anyone reading this thread, the Catholic Church has never approved even indirectly the Garabandal movement, and it has never encouraged or blessed Garabandal promoters or centers.

Brian Shanahan · 11-05-2014 02:07AM

indy_man wrote: »

Blessed Elena Aiello (1895-1961) -Mystic, Stigmatic, Victim Soul, Prophet

http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/09/blessed-elena-aiello-mystic-stigmatic.html

Not sure this is much of a forum for topics such as prophecy and prayer requests but I think people need to seriously pray for peace. The prophecy from Blessed Elena Aiello is not the only one related to Russia, there are others and all seem to be coming to fruition at the same time. Please pray for peace. God Bless.

Ye do realise that every single one of these "prophecies" ever uttered by any "prophet" are kept so vague that anyone (and that is literal) can fulfill them?

mdebets · 11-05-2014 06:51AM

indy_man wrote: »

The return of communism was predicted. After the return of communism the warning of Garabandal will appear in the sky also mentioned by St Faustina and as the sign in the sky in Revelation. This will be a cross in the sky. Many believe this will be in the next few years, so lets see if communism spreads across Europe again..

That's a relieve. Then we don't have to fear anything in the near (or even medium) future, As we didn't have Communism in Europe yet (all we had were Stalinist dictatorships), we need to have Communism first, than it needs to disappear and to return again.
I predict (pun intended) that that will take a while (especially as we seem to go towards dictatorships again, rather than Communism).

PopePalpatine · 11-05-2014 10:54AM

indy_man wrote: »

The return of communism was predicted. After the return of communism the warning of Garabandal will appear in the sky also mentioned by St Faustina and as the sign in the sky in Revelation. This will be a cross in the sky. Many believe this will be in the next few years, so lets see if communism spreads across Europe again..

.

You do realise Russia isn't communist any more? In fact, it's becoming increasingly fascist - extreme nationalism (at the expense of its neighbours' territory), a tight bond between the state, large corporations and the Orthodox Church and an increasingly totalitarian state.

antiskeptic · 11-05-2014 04:31PM

indy_man wrote: »

The return of communism was predicted.

Well perhaps unpack this one for me. What was said and when was it said for starters. I would point out my low tolerance for that which needs to be "interpreted" to mean that which is it is purported to mean. I'm looking for clear and unambiguous prediction - not Book of Revelation-speak.

indy_man · 11-05-2014 11:01PM

mdebets wrote: »

That's a relieve. Then we don't have to fear anything in the near (or even medium) future, As we didn't have Communism in Europe yet (all we had were Stalinist dictatorships), we need to have Communism first, than it needs to disappear and to return again.
I predict (pun intended) that that will take a while (especially as we seem to go towards dictatorships again, rather than Communism).

Much of Europe was under Soviet rule until early 90's as you no doubt know. This is what is meant in this prophecy as communism.

newmug · 12-05-2014 08:28PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Well perhaps unpack this one for me. What was said and when was it said for starters. I would point out my low tolerance for that which needs to be "interpreted" to mean that which is it is purported to mean. I'm looking for clear and unambiguous prediction - not Book of Revelation-speak.

But you miss the point - none of these things are "predictions" per se. They are visions and apparitions, which show a possible consequence, if X, Y or Z are not adhered to. So you will never get specific dates about things, just a warning that things aren't going according to plan, and here's how to fix it.

Take the second secret of Fatima for example. Mary told the children that WW2 would break out "during the pontificate of Pius 11th", IF people didn't stop sinning. On one hand, that's fairly specific, but on the other hand, it could be anywhere in a 40 odd year timeframe (17 years as it turned out, 22 years to outbreak of war).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima

On May 13, 1917, Lúcia described seeing a lady "brighter than the sun, shedding rays of light clearer and stronger than a crystal goblet filled with the most sparkling water and pierced by the burning rays of the sun". Astonished they ran back to their village and told everyone./COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]3[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc Further appearances were reported on June 13 and July 13. In these, the lady asked the children to do penance and Acts of Reparation and make personal sacrifices to save sinners. According to Lúcia's account, the lady also confided to the children three secrets, now known as the Three Secrets of Fátima.

antiskeptic · 12-05-2014 10:08PM

newmug wrote: »

But you miss the point - none of these things are "predictions" per se. They are visions and apparitions, which show a possible consequence, if X, Y or Z are not adhered to. So you will never get specific dates about things, just a warning that things aren't going according to plan, and here's how to fix it.

But isn't the problem then one of vagueness? And in that lack of specifics, the possibility of making the visions and apparitions fit after the fact?

Take the second secret of Fatima for example. Mary told the children that WW2 would break out "during the pontificate of Pius 11th", IF people didn't stop sinning. On one hand, that's fairly specific, but on the other hand, it could be anywhere in a 40 odd year timeframe (17 years as it turned out, 22 years to outbreak of war).

Pius 11th died on the 10 February 1939. WWII broke out 1st September that year. The trouble about war (if you wiki the list of wars going back) is that it is more or less unbroken. It's not hard to predict a worse war than the war before and certainly not hard to predict war moving towards breaking out since war never stops moving towards breaking out.

I'm not sure what to make of "if the people didn't stop sinning then..". I mean, people will sin almost from the day they are born til the day they die without taking time for a breath?

georgieporgy · 12-05-2014 11:34PM

The "great sign", "a night lit up by an unknown light," occurred on January 25, 1938

On March 12, 1938, German troops march into Austria to annex the German-speaking nation for the Third Reich.

ryan101 · 13-05-2014 11:42AM

Whether you believe them or not, I think there is far too much focus on interpreting prophecies, while the constant main message of these apparitions and prophecies is being missed/ignored : Prayer, repentance/reconciliation, fasting, reading scripture, treating others how you wish to be treated, and getting your own life in the best order you can.

Keep taking care of your body, mind, and soul, and other people, and the rest will take care of itself.

Eat much more veg, fruit, and fibre, and less and meat, carbs, and processed foods.
Get out walking, or doing whatever exercise you prefer, for 20 minutes every day.

newmug · 13-05-2014 11:44AM

ryan101 wrote: »

Whether you believe them or not, I think there is far too much focus on interpreting prophecies, while the constant main message is being missed : Prayer, repentance/reconciliation, fasting, reading scripture, treating others how you wish to be treated, and getting your own life in the best order you can.

Keep taking care of your body, mind, and soul, and the rest will take care of itself.

Eat much more veg, fruit, and fibre, and less and meat, carbs, and processed foods.
Get out walking, or doing whatever exercise you prefer, for 20 minutes every day.

And go to Mass every day. Say a Rosary aswell, for those who don't go to Mass.

antiskeptic · 13-05-2014 07:09PM

georgieporgy wrote: »

The "great sign", "a night lit up by an unknown light," occurred on January 25, 1938

On March 12, 1938, German troops march into Austria to annex the German-speaking nation for the Third Reich.

And? The Italians invaded Ethiopia in October 1935? WWII started when big protagonists declared war on each other - and that was after Pius 11th died.

If you're wanting to take some precursor as being the starting point then you've any amount to chose from over any number of years.

Which renders the "prophecy" somewhat useless given that time alone will probably render it true.

What you've done is classic: take something vague, match it to something equally vague and hey presto: bang on the button prophecy.

mezuzaj · 19-05-2014 07:15PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

And? The Italians invaded Ethiopia in October 1935? WWII started when big protagonists declared war on each other - and that was after Pius 11th died.

If you're wanting to take some precursor as being the starting point then you've any amount to chose from over any number of years.

Which renders the "prophecy" somewhat useless given that time alone will probably render it true.

What you've done is classic: take something vague, match it to something equally vague and hey presto: bang on the button prophecy.

Fatima is undoubtedly the most prophetic of modern apparitions. Infact its hard to ignore the concrete message given about Russia. Lucia in 1929 wrote to the Pope about Russia, However at the time Fatima had not been given full approval.

What has happened at fatima has happened many times.. But as regards Russia the message was pretty clear. "[Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. " We look a communism which destroyed thousands of Churchs in Russia. Look what communism did to China or North Korea. Or for example Pol Pot.

Fatima made a lot of People listen and as Lucia's letters became true it made the Church listen.

Pope Pius XII was consecrated the date of the First apparition and Pope John Paul II shot on anniversary of Fatima.

indy_man · 20-05-2014 10:01PM

mezuzaj wrote: »

Fatima is undoubtedly the most prophetic of modern apparitions. Infact its hard to ignore the concrete message given about Russia. Lucia in 1929 wrote to the Pope about Russia, However at the time Fatima had not been given full approval.

What has happened at fatima has happened many times.. But as regards Russia the message was pretty clear. "[Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. " We look a communism which destroyed thousands of Churchs in Russia. Look what communism did to China or North Korea. Or for example Pol Pot.

Fatima made a lot of People listen and as Lucia's letters became true it made the Church listen.

Pope Pius XII was consecrated the date of the First apparition and Pope John Paul II shot on anniversary of Fatima.

Yes mezuzaj, Fatima is very real, very important and very relevant to our time, with just about three years to its anniversary which many hope could be the time of the triumph of the immaculate heart or Mary.

It is very important that we at some point perform the first Saturday devotion as requested by Our Lady of Fatima. It only take five first Saturdays in a row. God Bless.

j80ezgvc3p92xu · 20-05-2014 10:28PM

Well the situation in the Ukraine is more or less diffused now, Putin moved his troops back from the Ukrainian border... Or is it a case of quiet before the storm? by the way did anyone hear of the crying icons in Greece? Boards will not let me post a link but its definitely on youtube.

Safehands · 20-05-2014 11:50PM

indy_man wrote: »

It is very important that we at some point perform the first Saturday devotion as requested by Our Lady of Fatima. It only take five first Saturdays in a row. God Bless.

I must admit that I have never heard of the first Saturdays. It seems quite bizarre that Mary would ask such a thing.

hinault · 21-05-2014 12:32AM

Father Malachi Martin S.J. claims to have been one of the few to have read the Third Secret of Fatima in 1960.
The third secret is said to make reference to Russia

In subsequent interviews in the early 1990's on American radio, Fr.Martin explicitly states that there are references in the Fatima's third secret to.................................... Kiev.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4dzdS79jU

indy_man · 21-05-2014 09:31AM

Safehands wrote: »

I must admit that I have never heard of the first Saturdays. It seems quite bizarre that Mary would ask such a thing.

Its a well known devotion but needs to be practiced. I would advise trying, you might notice many in Churches each Saturday practicing it.
http://www.rosary-center.org/firstsat.htm

Safehands · 21-05-2014 01:49PM

indy_man wrote: »

Its a well known devotion but needs to be practiced. I would advise trying, you might notice many in Churches each Saturday practicing it.
http://www.rosary-center.org/firstsat.htm

I don't want to seem disrespectful to good living Catholics, but is this not a superstition, very similar to those chain letters one may receive on line which promise great things if you send this on to ten other people within a certain time limit? If one were to carry out this devotion on a Friday rather than a first Saturday would that make it null and void? It seems very bizarre to attribute this to a Divine being.

Prophecy regarding Russia

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