Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread Summer 2014 - Mod Warning post #6893

brevity · 08-05-2014 10:37PM

Ok, so Martinez might go for closer to 30M. Whatever... For that we would be getting a player that has won the world cup, the champions league and the Bundesliga twice. And various other trophies.

He's been surrounded with both managerial and player talent for a number of years. He's seen what it takes to win. That's worth the extra 5 million or so imo.

It might not even be Martinez, once it's a player who fits the way we play and has the experience of winning.

We should not be spending 25 million on a mid-table player who has had a good run of form. Have we learned nothing. Let's sign players who shine when surrounded by excellence not players who shine surrounded by mediocrity.

daithijjj · 08-05-2014 10:42PM

If people have seen plenty of Lallana (i dont mean the odd MOTD and our games) and made their minds up then fair enough.

Personally, i think he is a really seriously talented player and got an 'upstairs' that fits in with what we are doing now. (Ive had him in my fantasy team for a long time :pac: so ive watched a bit extra than i normally would have). I'd take Jay Rodrigues too tbh.

Frankly, it doesnt matter what age he is, what wages he will be on etc.......moreso, is he the right fit for us. I believe he is.

So the club now has to back the manager if he wants the player and the 'climate' is right.

Gmol · 08-05-2014 10:43PM

mike65 wrote: »

I think the two front end buys will be from a trio of Lallana, Konoplyanka and Griezmann and Borini back as the third choice striker.

Kono and Llallana, I reckon.
Would also go for Shaw

klose · 08-05-2014 10:48PM

brevity wrote: »

Ok, so Martinez might go for closer to 30M. Whatever... For that we would be getting a player that has won the world cup, the champions league and the Bundesliga twice. And various other trophies.

He's been surrounded with both managerial and player talent for a number of years. He's seen what it takes to win. That's worth the extra 5 million or so imo.

It might not even be Martinez, once it's a player who fits the way we play and has the experience of winning.

We should not be spending 25 million on a mid-table player who has had a good run of form. Have we learned nothing. Let's sign players who shine when surrounded by excellence not players who shine surrounded by mediocrity.

Im taking it you know lallana and martinez are completely different players? 25 mill was just a figure touted a while back, its really only speculation as of now. It could end up 15, 20 or indeed 25 mill but if its a player we want ive no problem really dropping the cash on him, cant be relying on raheem or cou the whole time, they are still very young. Comparisons to adam/downing are fairly wide of the mark, hes no one trick pony either from what ive seen.

brevity · 08-05-2014 10:58PM

klose wrote: »

Im taking it you know lallana and martinez are completely different players? 25 mill was just a figure touted a while back, its really only speculation as of now. It could end up 15, 20 or indeed 25 mill but if its a player we want ive no problem really dropping the cash on him, cant be relying on raheem or cou the whole time, they are still very young. Comparisons to adam/downing are fairly wide of the mark, hes no one trick pony either from what ive seen.

Ah ya, I know they are different types of players and at the end of the day it's all rumours and gossip. If he goes for a reasonable about then I'd be happy enough despite the fact I think we need a player like Martinez more.

Who knows, perhaps Lallana will turn out to be the player we need both in ambition and skill.

Twice bitten and all that

hefferboi · 08-05-2014 10:58PM

Lallana's hair is fcuking serious, though. I'd gladly part with the 25 million.

mada999 · 08-05-2014 11:01PM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Guinness Stains :P

or newcastle brown ale..

mada999 · 08-05-2014 11:02PM

Dcully wrote: »

Id love it but i thought utd were in for him?

prob play him at the back

MonkeyTennis · 08-05-2014 11:04PM

hefferboi wrote: »

Lallana's hair is fcuking serious, though. I'd gladly part with the 25 million.

Alot of young premiership players rocking the Billy from One Flew over the Cuckoos Nest hair styles

Gbear · 08-05-2014 11:06PM

daithijjj wrote: »

Frankly, it doesnt matter what age he is, what wages he will be on etc.......moreso, is he the right fit for us. I believe he is.

No signing exists in a vaccuum and we don't have an unlimited budget.

I wouldn't turn my nose up at him; he looks like an excellent footballer, but I'd sincerely hope he's 5th or 6th on our list of midfield targets.

gafferino · 08-05-2014 11:09PM

daithijjj wrote: »

If people have seen plenty of Lallana (i dont mean the odd MOTD and our games) and made their minds up then fair enough.

Personally, i think he is a really seriously talented player and got an 'upstairs' that fits in with what we are doing now. (Ive had him in my fantasy team for a long time :pac: so ive watched a bit extra than i normally would have). I'd take Jay Rodrigues too tbh.

Frankly, it doesnt matter what age he is, what wages he will be on etc.......moreso, is he the right fit for us. I believe he is.

So the club now has to back the manager if he wants the player and the 'climate' is right.

You called it in Sturridge when I was against it (slightly). I will defer to your opinion on this one

Washington Irving · 08-05-2014 11:17PM

hefferboi wrote: »

Lallana's hair is fcuking serious, though. I'd gladly part with the 25 million.

Brad Jones is still the Premier League best hair champion for me.

mike65 · 08-05-2014 11:18PM

Adam Lallana before his grew his beard in 2010/11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQqzkDTw87s

and this season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qStY1aQlJRU

You'll notice that his box of tricks is nothing new.

MonkeyTennis · 08-05-2014 11:20PM

Point of order gents

Craig Johnstone.

Utopia Parkway · 08-05-2014 11:23PM

Really like Lallana as a player but 25M is a bit steep for my liking. I guess Southampton won't sell him for anything less than 20M though. Hopefully we can knock them down. When we played them during the 11 game winning streak he was really impressive in the first half against us. Caused major problems with his intelligent runs and has an ability to drift into space between the lines.

He's definitely more consistent than Coutinho at the moment but it must be remembered that Coutinho is 5 years younger than him. Which is another reason why 25M would be excessive. Lallana is already 26. He's not 20 or 21. At the end of the contract he'll likely have turned 30.

daithijjj · 08-05-2014 11:24PM

Gbear wrote: »

No signing exists in a vaccuum and we don't have an unlimited budget.

I wouldn't turn my nose up at him; he looks like an excellent footballer, but I'd sincerely hope he's 5th or 6th on our list of midfield targets.

We wont be signing players on over 70-80k a week (they will have to sign, play well and earn more if they want more). So we can draw up a list of who everyone thinks we can get for those wages and see whats possible. I figure many names can be scratched off and i believe Lallana is good enough anyway imho.

Gbear · 08-05-2014 11:56PM

daithijjj wrote: »

We wont be signing players on over 70-80k a week (they will have to sign, play well and earn more if they want more). So we can draw up a list of who everyone thinks we can get for those wages and see whats possible. I figure many names can be scratched off and i believe Lallana is good enough anyway imho.

Why do you assume that?
If we're happy to give Suarez 200k then clearly money isn't a problem if it's warranted.

I understand that's the way we've done things before but we're in a very different situation now than we were last summer.

And it's not much good spending less on wages if we get ****ed up and down the street by a ridiculous transfer fee.

I don't think Muller or Martinez are particularly realistic and I also don't think there's tons of player significantly better than Lallana.

It's just that he's a bad deal on balance (if the price rumours are true, of course).

brevity · 09-05-2014 12:18AM

I think peoples backs get up when they hear player(most likely English)+purple patch=high fee. They automatically think Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing, which is fair enough. Now I don't think Lallana will be an Andy Carroll or Stewart Downing but one good season in the premier league shouldn't mean we have to pay top dolla.

According to soccernet Coutinho has 5 goals and 7 assists and Lallana has 9 goals and 6 assists. Premier league only. Factoring in the whole season Lallana has 11G 7A (scored 2 against Burnley) Coutinho has 5G 8A (assist against Notts county)

Marginal figures. Now you could say that Lallana could score a lot more if Sturridge and Suarez ahead of him, which is fair enough, but Coutinho is several years younger than Lallana.

Coutinho cost around 10 million, is Lallana worth double that?

Our best course of action...

daithijjj · 09-05-2014 12:25AM

Gbear wrote: »

Why do you assume that?
If we're happy to give Suarez 200k then clearly money isn't a problem if it's warranted.

I understand that's the way we've done things before but we're in a very different situation now than we were last summer.

And it's not much good spending less on wages if we get ****ed up and down the street by a ridiculous transfer fee.

I don't think Muller or Martinez are particularly realistic and I also don't think there's tons of player significantly better than Lallana.

It's just that he's a bad deal on balance (if the price rumours are true, of course).

The first two highlighted parts kind of answer themselves. Plus the repeated words of Ayre talking about us doing business assuming we have no CL qualification, we work on the premise that it matters not whether we are in it, the business runs like we are never in it. We wont be paying outright on wages, Suarez earned his, he has signed about 3 new deals since he joined us.

Lallana also has a sell on clause, Bournemouth get 25%, thats why he will cost more xfer wise but his wages are currently low. Clubs dont think about the fee in isolation. Spending 18m, for example (on anyone) on a fee and giving him 100k is the same as spending 25m and giving them 70k, roughly speaking, over 5 years. However, the key here is that its easier to sell a player on lower wages if things turn out not as you had hoped.

For the record, i think Muller is a donkey but thats just me. Martinez on the other hand is exactly what we need.

daithijjj · 09-05-2014 12:29AM

brevity wrote: »

I think peoples backs get up when they hear player(most likely English)+purple patch=high fee. They automatically think Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing, which is fair enough. Now I don't think Lallana will be an Andy Carroll or Stewart Downing but one good season in the premier league shouldn't mean we have to pay top dolla.

According to soccernet Coutinho has 5 goals and 7 assists and Lallana has 9 goals and 6 assists. Premier league only. Factoring in the whole season Lallana has 11G 7A (scored 2 against Burnley) Coutinho has 5G 8A (assist against Notts county)

Marginal figures. Now you could say that Lallana could score a lot more if Sturridge and Suarez ahead of him, which is fair enough, but Coutinho is several years younger than Lallana.

Coutinho cost around 10 million, is Lallana worth double that?

Our best course of action...

What happens if he impresses in the world cup?....

brevity · 09-05-2014 12:47AM

daithijjj wrote: »

What happens if he impresses in the world cup?....

If we buy him at the right price then we've struck a bargain. Provided he has the head for what we're trying to do.

We could stall and end up paying over the odds after the world cup which is less than ideal and we'd end up looking foolish.

For me what I want to see is experienced players who have won leagues. This season has been great but we need the cynicism that comes with a push for the league. I dont think we'd get that with Lallana.

If we have have enough money to do both then this is all moot but we should look for experience first, back up second.

daithijjj · 09-05-2014 01:10AM

brevity wrote: »

If we buy him at the right price then we've struck a bargain. Provided he has the head for what we're trying to do.

We could stall and end up paying over the odds after the world cup which is less than ideal and we'd end up looking foolish.

For me what I want to see is experienced players who have won leagues. This season has been great but we need the cynicism that comes with a push for the league. I dont think we'd get that with Lallana.

If we have have enough money to do both then this is all moot but we should look for experience first, back up second.

Many of the players who have won leagues and are leaving their club are passed it/short term or want the pension plan topped up, thats the problem. The way we are going is more a road of ambition and youth now. Buying players on the way up, not the other way.

I understand where you are coming from, i just dont see it happening with us now.

murpho999 · 09-05-2014 01:26AM

I think Lallana is more than a one season wonder and he would be great for us.

He has been too consistent over his career, granted in lower leagues.

Also, Lallana Liverpool has a nice ring to it with all those 'L's. So he'd be an L of a signing (Sorry).

Not worried about price or wages as I let the Liverpool accountants look after that. (Don't know why fans get so wrapped in that, when a player is a success fees and wages are forgotten).

Gbear · 09-05-2014 01:30AM

daithijjj wrote: »

The first two highlighted parts kind of answer themselves. Plus the repeated words of Ayre talking about us doing business assuming we have no CL qualification, we work on the premise that it matters not whether we are in it, the business runs like we are never in it. We wont be paying outright on wages, Suarez earned his, he has signed about 3 new deals since he joined us.

Lallana also has a sell on clause, Bournemouth get 25%, thats why he will cost more xfer wise but his wages are currently low. Clubs dont think about the fee in isolation. Spending 18m, for example (on anyone) on a fee and giving him 100k is the same as spending 25m and giving them 70k, roughly speaking, over 5 years. However, the key here is that its easier to sell a player on lower wages if things turn out not as you had hoped.

For the record, i think Muller is a donkey but thats just me. Martinez on the other hand is exactly what we need.

First of all, CL isn't the only difference. We're also getting an enormous increase in TV revenue. Add to that the consistent growth in commercial revenue and there's no reason to assume we'll stick to spending at a level we were previously, particularly seeing as we're going to have to set our sights higher than the likes of Aspas and Alberto to stand still and stay in the CL.

It's also worth pointing out that English player get paid more than the bulk of their counterparts in other countries. Obviously there's the very top tier players and even the mortals from top clubs who get paid similar amounts (like Martinez and Muller, presumably) but, to pull a random player out of the air, Antoine Griezmann probably earns less than Lallana and he's not the only one.

rob316 · 09-05-2014 02:05AM

20m for Lallana would be ok anymore I would walk away anything under would be good business.
Hasn't he already said he wants to stay at Southampton?

NukaCola · 09-05-2014 02:13AM

If we cant find a player better than Lallana for 25m i'd have to question our scouting network.

Not knocking the guy, good talent but not for that fee.

dogbert27 · 09-05-2014 06:21AM

I would first rather spend 25 mill on Seamus Coleman. I think he is a step up from Johnson and he has progressed a lot this season under Martinez.

If we sign a first team DM does that change Gerrard's new position? Or change the formation?

The front 6 on the 11 game unbeaten run should still be the front 6 next season for consistency. For me it wasn't Gerrard's slip that brought us down but Henderson's unnecessary red card against city.

Because of that we had to change the dynamics of the front 6 where Lucas wasn't up to the pace. It was clear that without Henderson, Gerrard and Johnson were more exposed in the last few games.

In attack we need to make upgrades in terms of Lucas, Aspas, Moses for the squad. These 3 coming off the bench for any of the starting 6 was always a step down. I think for a team to be challenging at the top you need the bench to be the same quality as what is on the field.

Lallana would be a good addition. He is being compared with Coutinho. What I like about Lallana is that he can be a bit more direct than Coutinho so that when we are stuck trying to move a parked bus Lallana could make that difference.

The CB situation is a strange one. Sahko is a good player and a leader. He could very well be the rock that we need in defence. He was unfortunate with his injuries and maybe the language barrier affected him this year too in terms of communication at the back.

Then there are Skrtel (with his best season for us) and Agger (vice captain) who are both turning 30 this year. Experience is good at the back but Skrtel always give you a heart attack when you see him hanging off players in the box and Agger when in form is world class but he is not consistantly "in form". It would be sad to see one or both go but I think this summer might be time the last time the club can cash in on them.

As I said, I would rather spend 25 mill on Coleman for RB than 30 mill on Shaw for LB. I think we could get one more year out of Enrique with Flannagan being cover next year for both RB and LB.

Outs for me:
GK: Reina and Jones (going into next season where we hope to again challenge for the title, be in CL and have 2 domestic cups Jones is not a good enough back up)

Defence: Johnson, Coates, Cissokho (returned to Valencia, thanks but no thanks),Kelly (unfortunately not going to make it with us) and I think possibly one of Agger or Skrtel.

Midfield: Lucas (he hasn't been the same since he has come back from the long term injury and has been in and out of the team since). I think that's it. Allen potentially but he would be a good squad player with 4 competitions next year. Show's how light we are in this department in terms of cover when there is only one potential player to be sold.

Forward: Aspas (not going to make it, weird signing), Moses (return to Chelsea to be sold on to someone with more money than sense) and Assaidi.
I am thinking Borini will be sold but he's young enough that with 4 competitions and a full premiership under his belt where he helped Sunderland survive and make the Carling Cup Final he might be given one more season at Anfield. It's because of his form this season that I think he could be sold back to an Italian team where Liverpool could break even on what was paid for him.

That's potentially between 10 and 12 squad players out the door needing to be replaced!

dixiefly · 09-05-2014 06:35AM

Benzino wrote: »

Doesn't pain me, we aimed to challenge for 4th and well exceeded that It'd pain me if we were expecting to challenge/win the league and be in 7th at this point.

Also, I'm not giving you my email address, why on earth would I do that. You know how to post a pic of the bet, just do it. There is literally no reason for you not to, especially if you are willing to share it via email anyway.

I am not sure why this was such an issue for people. I was recommended to get a site that had a screen shot facility .

Here is the (famous) bet.

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/24115/20140508-dd5g-212kb

Grayditch · 09-05-2014 06:45AM

09-05-2014 06:46AM

Grayditch wrote: »

I love you?

Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread Summer 2014 - Mod Warning post #6893

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