I need feminism because...

Scarinae · 07-05-2014 12:40PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Oh god I actually came here to post about that. What the everloving fack?! And UGH the comments!!

Generally, I agree. One of the comments cracked me up though:

Wow, these are great ideas. Maybe, on the next date, I'll drop my wallet down a storm drain and burst into tears. Or just crash my car into a building and set it on fire. Anything to practice my vulnerable, "feminine wiles"!

WarOnDrugs78 · 07-05-2014 03:05PM

"Quote:
Wow, these are great ideas. Maybe, on the next date, I'll drop my wallet down a storm drain and burst into tears. Or just crash my car into a building and set it on fire. Anything to practice my vulnerable, "feminine wiles"!"

And yet the person who wrote this comment reads the relationship advice in the Irish Times and went to trouble of setting up an account with irishtimes.com in order to share their knee-jerk, lacerating cynicism with the world. What does that tell you about them? It's a lot easier to be sarcastic than it is to offer useful advice. At least Ms Holmquist is trying to be constructive. Strong, independent woman vs. needy, clingy desperado is a false dichotomy. There is a middle ground.

Morag · 07-05-2014 04:48PM

Because over a thousand women have had to use https://www.abortionsupport.org.uk/get-help/ in the last 12 months to get help, information and small grants to be able to travel to the uk for health care we should have here.

paperclip2 · 09-05-2014 09:18AM

Did anyone see Kirsty Warks documentary 'Blurred Lines' last night. I thought it was really good, found myself nodding in agreement to a lot of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0436qlw

Article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/10817886/Blurred-Lines-the-New-Battle-of-the-Sexes-BBC-Two-review.html

And to answer the OP statement, when my 18 year old daughter gets felt up on the LUAS; When she's followed for an hour through Temple Bar and into Starbucks by two men who then spend 20 minutes staring at her without ordering anything; When three thirtysomething men start taking pictures of her and her friend and making comments about her 'nice & perky' breasts, when she feels so threatened walking through Dublin that she now makes sure she carries one of these every time she leaves her flat:

Well these are just some of the reasons why I think Feminism is a pretty good idea.

ivytwine · 09-05-2014 10:05AM

paperclip2 wrote: »

Did anyone see Kirsty Warks documentary 'Blurred Lines' last night. I thought it was really good, found myself nodding in agreement to a lot of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0436qlw

Article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/10817886/Blurred-Lines-the-New-Battle-of-the-Sexes-BBC-Two-review.html

And to answer the OP statement, when my 18 year old daughter gets felt up on the LUAS; When she's followed for an hour through Temple Bar and into Starbucks by two men who then spend 20 minutes staring at her without ordering anything; When three thirtysomething men start taking pictures of her and her friend and making comments about her 'nice & perky' breasts, when she feels so threatened walking through Dublin that she now makes sure she carries one of these every time she leaves her flat:

Well these are just some of the reasons why I think Feminism is a pretty good idea.

****ing hell- this is happening to an 18 year old? I've experienced some street harrassment (in Dublin as well) but nothing on that scale.

:mad::mad::mad:

Your poor daughter.

paperclip2 · 09-05-2014 12:03PM

Thanks. She had a bad run of it lately. And these are just the worst episodes of it, she only told me because they really upset her. There's other 'lesser' sexist stuff that she hadn't mentioned until we had the chat about the above.

It kills me to say this because it shouldn't matter but she doesn't wear 'provocative' clothes (unless docs, jeans and lumberjack shirts float ones boat) nor does she act in any way that these gobs***es could interpret as flirty or enticing.

I wish we lived in a time when I didn't have to do it but as her mam I do keep harping on about not walking home alone, not drinking too much, be aware of her surroundings, all the stay safe stuff. Its worrying.

ivytwine · 09-05-2014 01:55PM

paperclip2 wrote: »

Thanks. She had a bad run of it lately. And these are just the worst episodes of it, she only told me because they really upset her. There's other 'lesser' sexist stuff that she hadn't mentioned until we had the chat about the above.

It kills me to say this because it shouldn't matter but she doesn't wear 'provocative' clothes (unless docs, jeans and lumberjack shirts float ones boat) nor does she act in any way that these gobs***es could interpret as flirty or enticing.

I wish we lived in a time when I didn't have to do it but as her mam I do keep harping on about not walking home alone, not drinking too much, be aware of her surroundings, all the stay safe stuff. Its worrying.

It doesn't matter a damn what you're wearing, it's happened to me while wearing winter coats and jeans. These arseholes are just arseholes regardless.

Just remembered something from the other week. Walking to the bus from work on a lovely spring evening and decided to divert over a small bridge nearby, there was an oul fella watching the river and another woman in her late thirties ahead of me. The woman was tapping away on her phone.

Anyway the ould fella started roaring at the other woman, saying "Do you make love that yoke, do ya?! Do you take it to bed with ya?" (meaning the phone) and when she ignored him he said "Ah you're not talking to me at all".

See... This is probably not sexism or catcalling in the traditional sense, but I would bet my toes that he wouldn't have done it to a younger man- presumably because he would be afraid of a physical reaction.

Whereas I think there is very little consequence for these guys doing it to a young woman- it's happened less to me as I got older but when I was a very young teen, I'm talking like 14, it used to happen to me all the time. We condition girls to be nice and polite but we should be telling them that it's ok to tell someone **** off and kick up a fuss if necessary. Do no harm- but take no ****.

I posted in Cries of Retail about my experience working in a bookies and the harrassment I got there. I will say the younger guys were infinitely better than the older ones- but the fact that anyone would go into a place of business and think it's ok to touch a member of staff in a sexual manner speaks volumes about why this is not over.

Neyite · 09-05-2014 02:18PM

ivytwine wrote: »

We condition girls to be nice and polite but we should be telling them that it's ok to tell someone **** off and kick up a fuss if necessary. Do no harm- but take no ****.

This.

I wish my parent had told me this as a young teen. I wish I had known it was ok to say that when I got felt up by a distant relative of my dad when I was 16. Or when my best friend's father propositioned me in a sexual way when I was 17.

I'm already teaching my toddler its ok if he doesnt want to kiss anyone or sit on anyones knee (including me and his dad!) that its his personal space and its to be respected. He is two. If it gives him the skills I didnt have at age 4 when I was sexually assaulted by an elderly relative to tell someone to fcuk off and run away screaming loudly I'll be happy to call myself a decent mother.

Morag · 09-05-2014 02:20PM

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2014-05-10-simple-words-every-girl-learn/

As girls we are conditioned to let people speak over us, or repeat what we said as thier own idea and not to cause a fuss.

SarahBeep! · 10-05-2014 07:19PM

I saw this and thought of here straight away

I have drawers upon drawers full of make up, cosmetics, face stuff...when really I don't need it. But I do understand that these things can make you feel better about yourself before walking out the door, which I wish wasn't the case.

YumCha · 11-05-2014 08:42PM

(Trigger warnings for rape, sexual violence and assault)

This is one of the most shocking things I've read/seen in a long time.... a legal loophole which prevented non-Native men being persecuted for crimes committed on the reservation, resulting in non-Native sexual predators being attracted to tribal areas:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/27/opinion/native-americans-and-the-violence-against-women-act.html?_r=0

The loophole has only recently been closed (but partially):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-law-offers-a-sliver-of-protection-to-abused-native-american-women/2014/02/08/0466d1ae-8f73-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

Documentary:

iwantmydinner · 12-05-2014 08:02AM

I haven't watched it yet but oh Christ, that sounds horrific.

It also sounds an "accidental-on-purpose" loophole...

iwantmydinner · 14-05-2014 08:56AM

So, clearly, this is on the lower end of the scale... But apparently a make-up mishap is front-page news - today's Irish Independent actually put this on their front page. It's so ridiculous it makes my teeth hurt.

Scarinae · 15-05-2014 09:16AM

Jill Abramson has been fired from her job as the executive editor of the New York Times. It is being widely reported that part of the reason is that she had discovered she was being paid less than her predecessor, and queried it

Several weeks ago, I’m told, Abramson discovered that her pay and her pension benefits as both executive editor and, before that, as managing editor were considerably less than the pay and pension benefits of Bill Keller, the male editor whom she replaced in both jobs. “She confronted the top brass,” one close associate said, and this may have fed into the management’s narrative that she was “pushy,” a characterization that, for many, has an inescapably gendered aspect.

meeeeh · 15-05-2014 09:35AM

Full article paints a bit more complex picture. It would be interesting to know what pay packet of a new editor will be and without that you really can't make a judgement.

Btw considering the situation print media is in currently I would be not surprised if the owners are trying to decrease wage bill in general.

iwantmydinner · 15-05-2014 10:44AM

Scarinae wrote: »

Jill Abramson has been fired from her job as the executive editor of the New York Times. It is being widely reported that part of the reason is that she had discovered she was being paid less than her predecessor, and queried it

Oh. My. God.

If that turns out to be the actual reason, I will PUKE

Amirani · 16-05-2014 05:44PM

I think Alison Flood makes some valid points here: http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/may/16/women-fiction-sign-sexist-book-industry

It's maybe not a big issue, but it's worthy of attention. Why does "Women's Fiction" exist but not "Men's Fiction"? Why also is there a "Bailey's Women's Prize for Fiction" and no corresponding prize for men? Does this further the sexist view that literature written by women is niche, and somewhat removed from the mainstream literature awards?

Morag · 16-05-2014 05:58PM

Because some people think Scifi is a all boys club and women are ruining it, ignoring that that first ever sci fi book
Frankenstein monster was written by a woman. http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/10/09/the-war-on-science-fiction-and-marvin-minsky/ There are less scifi authors who happens to be women now then there were in the 60s and 70s but apparently we are destroying it.

GalwayGuy2 · 16-05-2014 07:57PM

Here's the original blog post.

http://joannechocolat.tumblr.com/post/84707533631/capitalize-this

Tigger99 · 17-05-2014 05:58PM

This is a fantastic response to Sarah Millican being criticised for what she looked like at the baftas. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-05-15/sarah-millican-twitter-was-a-pin-to-my-excitable-bafta-balloon

fits · 17-05-2014 06:13PM

Tigger99 wrote: »

This is a fantastic response to Sarah Millican being criticised for what she looked like at the baftas. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-05-15/sarah-millican-twitter-was-a-pin-to-my-excitable-bafta-balloon

My blood is boiling after reading that.people need to cop the fcuk on.
!

Tigger99 · 17-05-2014 06:21PM

It really made me think about about how critical I am about my own appearance. Very thought provoking.

Legs.Eleven · 17-05-2014 06:22PM

Tigger99 wrote: »

This is a fantastic response to Sarah Millican being criticised for what she looked like at the baftas. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-05-15/sarah-millican-twitter-was-a-pin-to-my-excitable-bafta-balloon

That´s upsetting to read. You sometimes have this idea that celebrities are immune to all these "human feelings" because you presume they must be brimming with confidence to do what they´re doing. I´ve a female friend who´s a comedian also and has got ripped apart on the internet over her appearance and it´s upsetting to see the repercussions in real life and it how it actually impacts the person. I don´t think any male comedian would get such harsh treatment over what they wear and in fact, it´d be expected that they wouldn´t be such slaves to their appearance in a profession like that (and also praised for being quirky or whatever). Not for women though. Women are expected to look "attractive and alluring" all the time and dressing for comfort or simpy dressing in what you like to wear is not seen in a positive light.

I´m sorry it had such an effect on her and if she was less human(as we presume celebrities to be), she might´ve given two fingers to the naysayers but that article is exactly what I would have written in her shoes expressing exactly how I would´ve felt. Hopefully it makes some people reconsider the things they write on the internet and the judgements they make on the appearance of others.

eviltwin · 18-05-2014 08:54AM

Tigger99 wrote: »

This is a fantastic response to Sarah Millican being criticised for what she looked like at the baftas. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-05-15/sarah-millican-twitter-was-a-pin-to-my-excitable-bafta-balloon

It's quite depressing to think that after any awards ceremony men are celebrated for their work while women are celebrated only for wearing a nice frock.

Ambersky · 18-05-2014 11:20PM

I need feminism because the stories of harassment and sexual assault of women in the Travelling as a solo female thread seem so common and ordinary.

RDM_83 again · 20-05-2014 12:45AM

Morag wrote: »

Because some people think Scifi is a all boys club and women are ruining it, ignoring that that first ever sci fi book
Frankenstein monster was written by a woman. http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/10/09/the-war-on-science-fiction-and-marvin-minsky/

Thats such a stupid article and it appears to be written by somebody that is either not very knowledgeable about Science Fiction or a fan of the 50/60's pulp Sci-Fi.
For example he rants about Dr.Who having an Omnisexual character, Heinlein who isn't exactly renowned for being 'on message' had alternative partnerships in some of his writings, Haldeman's sequels to the Forever War flips society with the future being exclusively homosexual with the main protagonists feeling excluded because of their heterosexuality.
He seems to be mixing up having a problem with 'dumbing down' or writing in badly realized characters to cynically boost audiences numbers with more diversity in the Sci-Fi community.

Morag wrote: »

There are less scifi authors who happens to be women now then there were in the 60s and 70s but apparently we are destroying it.

Is that actually true though, is there a source for that?
Like I just grabbed from my bookshelf two yearly Sci-Fi anthologies I buy most years. In 2010 9 of the 30 stories were from woman writers, in 2012 there was 10 out of 30.
Now I know this is a very off the cuff analysis just from one publication and the figure is considerably less than a 50/50 split but I really doubt a publication taking most of the best short sci-fi published in two random years in the 60's or 70's would have a better ratio, I think Ursala K.Le Guin and a few others like Kate Wilhelm and Joanna Russ publishing some fantastic and successful novels in that period probably creates a false impression of diversity.

Apologies for way too much sci-fi info

Morag · 20-05-2014 01:52AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Apologies for way too much sci-fi info

No need to I really enjoyed it

YumCha · 20-05-2014 07:45PM

Can't make heads or tails of this, but I think it's a competition for a bunch of men to judge you (solely on your personality of course) by stripping you of your name and making you walk in a bikini in a closed room in front of Ryan Tubridy?!?!

http://www.rte.ie/2fm/tubridy/generic/2014/0516/617813-2fm-miss-personality/

Frito · 20-05-2014 08:07PM

YumCha wrote: »

making you walk in a bikini in a closed room

It's really important to be in swimwear because your waist-hip ratio is directly proportional to your enthusiasm for world peace*

That link is a bit confusing, but I think there are two competitions - the 2fm personality one which guarantees winner entry to Miss Ireland semi-final, where the swimwear is whipped out.

*I definitely have a source for this, really.

eviltwin · 20-05-2014 08:36PM

YumCha wrote: »

Can't make heads or tails of this, but I think it's a competition for a bunch of men to judge you (solely on your personality of course) by stripping you of your name and making you walk in a bikini in a closed room in front of Ryan Tubridy?!?!

http://www.rte.ie/2fm/tubridy/generic/2014/0516/617813-2fm-miss-personality/

I'm a bit confused by this. Tubs is finding a Miss Personality and it doesn't matter what you look like. Grand. But then she will be in the Miss World final where what you look like is important

Which kinda defeats the purpose of the original selection on the basis of personality.

I need feminism because...

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