I need feminism because...

KyussBishop

Jenneke87 wrote: »

If you think that is bad go read return of kings.....it's beyond words

Heh - coupled with the avatar I immediately thought this was a LOTR reference; yes I saw that site posted in TGC, and I really don't understand the knee-jerk reaction against feminism that some posters and groups have (though in fairness, I don't think anyone explicitly endorsed the site).

I've found, rather quickly, that it's incredibly easy to disarm as well: Just point out they are making a generalization about an entire group of people, that is unsubstantiated with any kind of statistics (only anecdote/assertion), and then once you point that out they completely lose any justification for making the same generalizations - which you can then pan them for repeatedly, for making an argument they now know is fallacious.

Works both ways - for arguing against the extremist feminists as well as extremist mens rights types; once you don't let them away with sweeping generalizations, they tend to expose their deliberate bias fairly rapidly.

Links234

http://attitude.co.uk/humiliate-murder-boys-wont-boys/

Deeply, deeply upsetting read...

Links234

Links234 wrote: »

http://attitude.co.uk/humiliate-murder-boys-wont-boys/

Deeply, deeply upsetting read...

Ah god.

Horrific.

nicowa

Because I need to stop judging people's worth on their looks and weight - myself included.

nicowa

nicowa wrote: »

Because I need to stop judging people's worth on their looks and weight - myself included.

Also, because the ads running side by side for men's and women's skin products in Tesco show a healthy 40something year old man (McDreamy from Greys) for the men's products and a girl/woman who looks about 16-18 for the women's products. I'm 28 with two kids. I'm not going to look like that ever again! Stop making me feel bad! I don't need to look like that to be beautiful!

ivytwine

nicowa wrote: »

Also, because the ads running side by side for men's and women's skin products in Tesco show a healthy 40something year old man (McDreamy from Greys) for the men's products and a girl/woman who looks about 16-18 for the women's products. I'm 28 with two kids. I'm not going to look like that ever again! Stop making me feel bad! I don't need to look like that to be beautiful!

Or 'anti-ageing' products which show a woman of about 25!

Eeden

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

... that Littlewoods ad, where the woman's school reunion is coming up so Littlewoods helps her pretend she has cute kids, a handsome husband and a beautiful home. Because you can't even think of going to your school reunion without all those boxes ticked...

I noticed today that they seem to have changed that ad - leaving out the worried question about what everyone will think of her and also cutting the "Cute kids? Click. Handsome Husband? Click..." bit. I think that the complaints must have hit home.

Robson Lobson

KyussBishop wrote: »

Heh - coupled with the avatar I immediately thought this was a LOTR reference; yes I saw that site posted in TGC, and I really don't understand the knee-jerk reaction against feminism that some posters and groups have (though in fairness, I don't think anyone explicitly endorsed the site).

I've found, rather quickly, that it's incredibly easy to disarm as well: Just point out they are making a generalization about an entire group of people, that is unsubstantiated with any kind of statistics (only anecdote/assertion), and then once you point that out they completely lose any justification for making the same generalizations - which you can then pan them for repeatedly, for making an argument they now know is fallacious.

Works both ways - for arguing against the extremist feminists as well as extremist mens rights types; once you don't let them away with sweeping generalizations, they tend to expose their deliberate bias fairly rapidly.

Feminism has done some great things for women but now I feel that most self identyfing feminists aren't really too interested in equality.

Morag

Feminism is not just about equality, it is about acknowledging the way in which women are at a disadvantage in our society the double standards which do so much damage. It is also about empowering women to exercise their rights and encouraging to break down the cultural barriers which are still in place.

I am a feminist and I do also knowledge that there issues which effect men which need to change and I will happily support them to fight for the changes they need.

miamee

In a bar on Friday night, sitting on a stool, watching a band with a friend. Some guy comes squeezing past (pretty busy) and decides to stop, kiss me on the top of the head and then hug me in a bit of a bear hug that i struggled to get out of! I had never seen this man before in my life, he was quite drunk and I had to struggle to get him off me. And I forgot about it afterwards. The fact that this was just part of an average night in a busy pub and I just got on with my night makes me angry, I have been so conditioned that I just brushed it off as a drunk eejit.

I'm not even sure this is the right thread for this but I had to put it somewhere.

ivytwine

miamee wrote: »

In a bar on Friday night, sitting on a stool, watching a band with a friend. Some guy comes squeezing past (pretty busy) and decides to stop, kiss me on the top of the head and then hug me in a bit of a bear hug that i struggled to get out of! I had never seen this man before in my life, he was quite drunk and I had to struggle to get him off me. And I forgot about it afterwards. The fact that this was just part of an average night in a busy pub and I just got on with my night makes me angry, I have been so conditioned that I just brushed it off as a drunk eejit.

I'm not even sure this is the right thread for this but I had to put it somewhere.

Sorry to hear that miamee. I will never understand why people find it ok to touch strangers, alcohol or no alcohol!

LenaClaire

Because there are still judges in this world that think that just because you have had consensual sex with one person, that means you are open for business to anyone.

Because that same judge sentences the man who confessed to raping the girl to 25 hour community service... working with rape victims.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/05/justice/texas-rape-sentence/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Neyite

And a female judge at that...

:eek:

YumCha

And the victim was 14 years old...

Neyite

YumCha wrote: »

And the victim was 14 years old...

and therefore too young to consent to the acts of 'promiscuity'...

Basically, with this sentence, the judge more or less implied that a child rape victim was some sort of a slut because she was...um..raped. By 3 previous males, one of whom impregnated her. Then based a 25 day community service sentence on the rapist to be served helping...um...victims of rape. :rolleyes:

She needs to go back to law school, because she has forgotten that rape, statutory rape, child rape are all heinous crimes.

He probably would have gotten a stiffer sentence if he stole her phone or something. :mad:

sunshine and showers

Today's problem question answer in the Irish Times

Let's all change ourselves to get a man!

Amirani

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Today's problem question answer in the Irish Times

Let's all change ourselves to get a man!

That's a fairly dire article.

iwantmydinner

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Today's problem question answer in the Irish Times

Let's all change ourselves to get a man!

Oh god I actually came here to post about that. What the everloving fack?! And UGH the comments!!

WarOnDrugs78

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Oh god I actually came here to post about that. What the everloving fack?! And UGH the comments!!

When I see the words "relationship coach", I break out in a rash.

meeeeh

That article is even dafter response than usual (yes I do read them every so often) to a very daft question. Times should stop trying to become Indo.

strobe

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Today's problem question answer in the Irish Times

Let's all change ourselves to get a man!

Hmmm. Cant get a man, so they all must be intimidated by success and drive...

Sounds like it comes from the same school of thought as 'I don't do well with women because they're all stuck up'

I'd be more of the line of thinking that if you're consistently having no success with the opposite sex its probably not absolutely everybody else with the problem...

(Edit: post addressed to the article, not you S and S.)

sunshine and showers

strobe wrote: »

Hmmm. Cant get a man, so they all must be intimidated by success and drive...

Sounds like it comes from the same school of thought as 'I don't do well with women because they're all stuck up'

I'd be more of the line of thinking that if you're consistently having no success with the opposite sex its probably not absolutely everybody else with the problem...

(Edit: post addressed to the article, not you S and S.)

I was wondering.

There's also the school of thought that maybe you just haven't met the right man yet, so stop making things up in your head and keep looking...

I just don't like how it basically assumes she's "tough" (I read: a bítch) because she's successful, so she should change herself to be more vulnerable around men because they love damsels in distress so much.

WarOnDrugs78

sunshine and showers wrote: »

I was wondering.

There's also the school of thought that maybe you just haven't met the right man yet, so stop making things up in your head and keep looking...

I just don't like how it basically assumes she's "tough" (I read: a bítch) because she's successful, so she should change herself to be more vulnerable around men because they love damsels in distress so much.

In fairness, if the lady needs to write to the Times for advice on how to nab a man, then her current strategy is obviously not working and a change of tack might be in order.

And the advice that Kate Holmquist gives is pretty good, even if it is a bit long-winded and couched in euphemism.

ivytwine

sunshine and showers wrote: »

I was wondering.

There's also the school of thought that maybe you just haven't met the right man yet, so stop making things up in your head and keep looking...

I just don't like how it basically assumes she's "tough" (I read: a bítch) because she's successful, so she should change herself to be more vulnerable around men because they love damsels in distress so much.

**** that ****.

I'd rather be single forever than change one damn thing about who I am!

iwantmydinner

"Why are you acting like such a needy, vulnerable weirdo on our first date?"

"Cos apparently if I express my natural capability and independence or talk about my career success, I'll sound like a b!tch and you'll be intimidated"

"Well that's not insulting to both of us. At all."

meeeeh

WarOnDrugs78 wrote: »

In fairness, if the lady needs to write to the Times for advice on how to nab a man, then her current strategy is obviously not working and a change of tack might be in order.

There could be nothing wrong with her strategy, she could just be a complete waggon. Just because someone considers themselves attractive and a catch, it doesn't mean they actually are. Or she could be trying to date idiots or she could be just unlucky. There could be a thousands reasons but I doubt any could be solved by turning herself into damsel in distress that needs to be saved by a man.

WarOnDrugs78

meeeeh wrote: »

... I doubt any could be solved by turning herself into damsel in distress that needs to be saved by a man.

I disagree with this paraphrasing of Ms Holmquist's advice. If I had to paraphrase her advice, it would be thus "Be friendly, approachable and relaxed. What works when dealing with people in your job, is not necessarily what will work when seeking a mate. Take a risk, let down your guard." This is good advice for anyone diving into the bearpit that is the dating game.

I'm a little skeptical toward both the advice seeker and answer... but ultimately I don't think it's that bad

It's possible she goes on about the car and the holidays or rubs it in instead of anything else. It's also possible that she's just summarising so it comes across badly and she's fine irl.
The answer says men should love independence etc, and don't play games or be fake, but if you have a work persona, don't forget to let it go once you leave the office
Which is fair enough

Sullivan also believes that men need to be needed. “When a new man comes into your life, or shows any interest, do you let him do little things for you or do you brush him away with a curt, ‘It’s okay, I can do that’?

I think this bit sounds like it's going a bit astray and patronising, but bearing in mind that you don't strictly have to do everything alone is generally good advice, particularly if you're used to being alone and it's little things that are nice and sweet to have done but don't make you needy

meeeeh

WarOnDrugs78 wrote: »

I disagree with this paraphrasing of Ms Holmquist's advice. If I had to paraphrase her advice, it would be thus "Be friendly, approachable and relaxed. What works when dealing with people in your job, is not necessarily what will work when seeking a mate. Take a risk, let down your guard." This is good advice for anyone diving into the bearpit that is the dating game.

Firstly how does she know she is not approachable? Why does it imply straight away that being successful means you are unable to deal with people outside of professional world? And cherry on the top is the usual line of "don't be desperate".

Anyway I really don't care about the subject enough to argue. I'm half convinced a lot of those letters are invented anyway so that agony aunts have something to do.

WarOnDrugs78

meeeeh wrote: »

Firstly how does she know she is not approachable? Why does it imply straight away that being successful means you are unable to deal with people outside of professional world? And cherry on the top is the usual line of "don't be desperate".

Anyway I really don't care about the subject enough to argue. I'm half convinced a lot of those letters are invented anyway so that agony aunts have something to do.

The person who wrote the letter describes herself as "feeling like a man-repeller."

I agree that a lot of these letters read as if they are heavily edited, if not complete inventions.