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Punching a woman - Justified or not? - MOD WARNING FIRST POST

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    #512
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    How is it self defence to hit someone who hasnt hit you ?

    Ops group was the subject of assault and the op could reasonably expect to be assaulted next.
    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Sure it is. Just because you want to defend your friend doesn't mean you can dole out punches. Self defence is one thing but "defence" is in this scenario is another and there was no need for the OP to hit the girl so it was plain old assault to lay her out with a punch to the face.

    No, it is not assault. Defense of self or others is not assault.


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    #513
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    I havent read the thread, has anyone mentioned donkey punch? is that what this is about?
    Its normal right


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    #514
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Ops group was the subject of assault and the op could reasonably expect to be assaulted next.

    That is unlikely to stand in a court of law. Aggravated assult


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    #515
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    efb wrote: »
    That is unlikely to stand in a court of law. Aggravated assult

    No, defense of others is widely accepted amongst most jurisdictions, ours included.


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    #516
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    No, defense of others is widely accepted amongst most jurisdictions, ours included.

    I can't see that standing, only one punch had been thrown


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    #517
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Ops group was the subject of assault and the op could reasonably expect to be assaulted next.



    No, it is not assault. Defense of self or others is not assault.

    Why would the OP expect to be assaulted next when the girl pushed him out of the way to hit his friend ? There was absolutely no reason to hit the girl from what I have read. Seems it was a case of retaliation and not defence. So thats plain old assault.


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    #518
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    No, defense of others is widely accepted amongst most jurisdictions, ours included.

    Duty to retreat, she hasn't captured him, free to move away


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    #519
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Why would the OP expect to be assaulted next when the girl pushed him out of the way to hit his friend ? There was absolutely no reason to hit the girl from what I have read. Seems it was a case of retaliation and not defence. So thats plain old assault.
    efb wrote: »
    I can't see that standing, only one punch had been thrown

    No, this is incorrect. It is reasonable for the op to assume that a further assault on them or their friend could take place and they moved to stop this. This is specifically covered for in legislation and it is not deemed assault.


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    #520
    GenieOz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭GenieOz


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Why would the OP expect to be assaulted next when the girl pushed him out of the way to hit his friend ? There was absolutely no reason to hit the girl from what I have read. Seems it was a case of retaliation and not defence. So thats plain old assault.

    Retaliation is plentiful reason.
    Most people would react in the same manner, I'd keep better friends if they didn't.


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    #521
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    efb wrote: »
    Duty to retreat, she hasn't captured him, free to move away

    Not mandatory, it depends on circumstances also the other party was incapacitated on the ground.


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    #522
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Sure it is. Just because you want to defend your friend doesn't mean you can dole out punches. Self defence is one thing but "defence" is in this scenario is another and there was no need for the OP to hit the girl so it was plain old assault to lay her out with a punch to the face.

    It wasn't assault though it was defence of a person who had been attacked and was incapacitated at the time and therefore unable to defend herself.


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    #523
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    bumper234 wrote: »
    It wasn't assault though it was defence of a person who had been attacked and was incapacitated at the time and therefore unable to defend herself.

    Its also reasonable to assume that it was straight defence of self given the actions of the aggressor.

    Lovely how no one is condemning the person who initiated the conflict though.


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    #524
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    efb wrote: »
    I can't see that standing, only one punch had been thrown

    Op should have waited for another couple of punches to land on friends face before stepping in?:rolleyes:


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    #525
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    peekachoo wrote: »
    Oh man this is a whole other offensive territory youre crossing into :rolleyes:

    Yeah, cos hitting girls is "charmer" territory. The hints in the act IMO. I'd lump women who "hit" in the same boat - real classy charmers. It might be old-fashioned, might even be "naive", but I like women who don't hit anyone, and lads who wouldn't hit a girl. The rest, I lump under the "scanger" umbrella, and that's my view.

    And for all the "lads" who reckon hitting a woman is a-ok, fair enough, but top tip, don't do it when me or people of a like mind to me are toddling past, 'cos I'd knock a lump of your head off for the craic/educational purposes and to reinforce your love for old-fashioned stereotypes.;)


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    #526
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Yeah, cos hitting girls is "charmer" territory. The hints in the act IMO. I'd lump women who "hit" in the same boat - real classy charmers. It might be old-fashioned, might even be "naive", but I like women who don't hit anyone, and lads who wouldn't hit a girl. The rest, I lump under the "scanger" umbrella, and that's my view.

    And for all the "lads" who reckon hitting a woman is a-ok, fair enough, but top tip, don't do it when me or people of a like mind to me are toddling past, 'cos I'd knock a lump of your head off for the craic/educational purposes and to reinforce your love for old-fashioned stereotypes.;)

    Strangely enough, most of us would label people who hit anyone as scangers- gender is usually irrelevant either way

    You do realise your post makes you appear as big a scumbag as the people you've given out about right?


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    #527
    GenieOz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭GenieOz


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Yeah, cos hitting girls is "charmer" territory. The hints in the act IMO. I'd lump women who "hit" in the same boat - real classy charmers. It might be old-fashioned, might even be "naive", but I like women who don't hit anyone, and lads who wouldn't hit a girl. The rest, I lump under the "scanger" umbrella, and that's my view.

    And for all the "lads" who reckon hitting a woman is a-ok, fair enough, but top tip, don't do it when me or people of a like mind to me are toddling past, 'cos I'd knock a lump of your head off for the craic/educational purposes and to reinforce your love for old-fashioned stereotypes.;)

    Think you might find yourself with an assault charge or getting the shîte beaten out of ya in that case.


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    #528
    Renegade Mechanic
    Registered Users Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭Renegade Mechanic


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Yeah, cos hitting girls is "charmer" territory. The hints in the act IMO. I'd lump women who "hit" in the same boat - real classy charmers. It might be old-fashioned, might even be "naive", but I like women who don't hit anyone, and lads who wouldn't hit a girl. The rest, I lump under the "scanger" umbrella, and that's my view.

    And for all the "lads" who reckon hitting a woman is a-ok, fair enough, but top tip, don't do it when me or people of a like mind to me are toddling past, 'cos I'd knock a lump of your head off for the craic/educational purposes and to reinforce your love for old-fashioned stereotypes.;)

    http://www.vgmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/come-at-me-bro.jpg


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    #529
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Op should have waited for another couple of punches to land on friends face before stepping in?:rolleyes:

    Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.


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    #530
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    How is it self defence to hit someone who hasnt hit you ?

    It would be seen as defense of others, not self defense. But it's pretty much the same rules as self defense.

    Someone knocks your friend to the ground, you see her on the floor bleeding, the aggressor is still standing over her and you instinctively punch the aggressor. How is that not defense? This person just floored your friend for no reason! There's still a threat of further violence and your friend is incapacitated and unable to defend herself.

    If the agressor had walked away and he ran after her and punched her, that would've been a different story. Or if the OP decided to kick her to death or something. That's not reasonable force to prevent further violence, a punch is.


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    #531
    NordieSteve
    Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭NordieSteve


    I'd disagree with the OP punching the girl. His friend (the assaulted case) had full right to knock seven bells out of the **** though.


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    #532
    beano345
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭beano345


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Yeah, cos hitting girls is "charmer" territory. The hints in the act IMO. I'd lump women who "hit" in the same boat - real classy charmers. It might be old-fashioned, might even be "naive", but I like women who don't hit anyone, and lads who wouldn't hit a girl. The rest, I lump under the "scanger" umbrella, and that's my view.

    And for all the "lads" who reckon hitting a woman is a-ok, fair enough, but top tip, don't do it when me or people of a like mind to me are toddling past, 'cos I'd knock a lump of your head off for the craic/educational purposes and to reinforce your love for old-fashioned stereotypes.;)

    To be honest Stavros if a women assaulted me and I retaliated in self defense and a white knight like yourself stepped in I would go to town on some one like that I'd consider the pair of them "scangers" for re-educational purposes of course


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    #533
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Yeah, cos hitting girls is "charmer" territory. The hints in the act IMO. I'd lump women who "hit" in the same boat - real classy charmers. It might be old-fashioned, might even be "naive", but I like women who don't hit anyone, and lads who wouldn't hit a girl. The rest, I lump under the "scanger" umbrella, and that's my view.

    And for all the "lads" who reckon hitting a woman is a-ok, fair enough, but top tip, don't do it when me or people of a like mind to me are toddling past, 'cos I'd knock a lump of your head off for the craic/educational purposes and to reinforce your love for old-fashioned stereotypes.;)

    Girl assults me.

    I hit girl back in self defence.

    You think it's scummy to defend myself.

    You decide to.assault me.


    Kinda makes you a bigger scumbag imo. And fyi not everyone would stand there and take your **** as well.


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    #534
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Op should have waited for another couple of punches to land on friends face before stepping in?:rolleyes:

    The roll eyes was very endearing


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    #535
    riveratom
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭riveratom


    What a piece of work - you punched a woman? It would be bad doing that even if she had hit you instead of your friend.


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    #536
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.

    Not obtuse at all, some seem to think one punch does not constitute assault. Ironic that op only threw one punch and the lynch mob are only short of getting pitch forks and torches ready.


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    #537
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    riveratom wrote: »
    You punched a woman? It would be bad doing that even if she had hit you

    Care to explain why you think a man should never defend himself against an unprovoked attack from a woman?


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    #538
    amkin25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭amkin25


    Reality is he was all over the big girl and dropped her for skinnier one ,so she give the skinny one a slap doubt its as clear as just a quick dance and move on, seems it happened right at that moment too.


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    #539
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    tritium wrote: »
    Strangely enough, most of us would label people who hit anyone as scangers- gender is usually irrelevant either way

    You do realise your post makes you appear as big a scumbag as the people you've given out about right?

    Good so. I'll draw my line, you draw yours. Everyones happy. Well, mainly me and you, but lets focus on the positives.


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    #540
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    riveratom wrote: »
    What a piece of work - you punched a woman? It would be bad doing that even if she had hit you instead of your friend.

    It really wouldn't. That would be fairly definitively self defence.


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    #541
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Nimrod 7 wrote: »
    Care to explain why you think a man should never defend themself against an unprovoked attack from a woman?

    Defending yourself and punching someone are two different things. I've never punched anyone in all my 36 years on this planet, eleven of those running a nightclub in Donegal at the height of the Celtic Tiger plastering gold rush. Been in plenty of hairy situations, I've had to defend myself on numerous occasions, never had to lift my hand to anybody.


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