No Windfarms, No Fracking, No Nuclear Power ?

Gatling · 16-04-2014 08:05PM

I'd have no problem with nuclear power stations here ,

But look at the port tunnel disaster ,

The luas lines with incompatible gauge rails supposedly by accident,

Now ask the government to build a nuclear power station now doesn't sound a very good idea at all does it

MS.ing · 16-04-2014 08:45PM

visual wrote: »

Wind technology just isn't feasible at present
but nuclear power is.

We should have built a plant long ago but better later than never.

However no one wants it it there back garden so wherever they put it there will be nay sayers

If we discovered oil it be hassle getting it ashore with nay sayers

I love that arguement! "If the nuclear plant explodes it wont be in my backyard!

"

as if contamination is kept to a sector of a field. those nimby people clearly learnt nothing from chernobyl or ****ishima :rolleyes:

16-04-2014 08:49PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Nail on the head!

All the Irish want is their paw greased in any major infrastructure project, thats it really.

Want cheap energy? No fracking or fossil fuels

What more carbon neutral alternatives? Nuclear Wind Energy & Hydroelectricity all have high costs and not to mention other perceived drawbacks like aesthetic & ecological. Solar, Geothermal, Tidal are all less/not suitable in their current form so thats leaves this country with what, Biomass?? :rolleyes:

Oh, forget about maintaining our distribution network. We should wait until we are having Brown outs & Power Outages before that penny drops.

Whilst I didnt agree with the Wind Farms for supplying the UK market, I dont agree with alot of the protestors on what Ireland's energy policy should be.

Nail on the head as you say. But apart from the potential aesthetic & ecological issues Hydroelectricity only has high cost if looked on using short term economic model which is obviously does not fit. High investment cost but levelised long term it is the cheapest.

Can't remember the dates but the pre war built Galloway hydro-electric power scheme in scotland had the first major overhaul of its turbines in the last 10 years after over 60 years of operation. Same with Ballyshannon in Donegal I believe.

Fossil plants built in the same era were mostly decommissioned in the 60's.

wp_rathead · 16-04-2014 09:05PM

Remember those potato clocks that could run on spuds?

Well we need to harnise that energy!!

theKillerBite · 16-04-2014 11:53PM

Gatling wrote: »

I'd have no problem with nuclear power stations here ,

But look at the port tunnel disaster ,

The luas lines with incompatible gauge rails supposedly by accident,

Now ask the government to build a nuclear power station now doesn't sound a very good idea at all does it

Jaysus misinformed much...

What Port Tunnel Disaster??

Both Luas lines are exactly the same gauge, standard gauge 1,435mm. When the new BXD line opens the red line trams will be able to travel on the green line etc.

Capt'n Midnight · 17-04-2014 12:05AM

kinklee7 wrote: »

I think one decent Nuclear power plant would suffice.

our peak power demand is three times the minimum demand so nuclear so how's that going to work ?

theKillerBite · 17-04-2014 12:10AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

our peak power demand is three times the minimum demand so nuclear so how's that going to work ?

By moving the control rods up and down.

Cookie_Monster · 17-04-2014 12:17AM

Why are wind farms always painted white. They'd look much better if every turbine in a farm was a different colour

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

our peak power demand is three times the minimum demand so nuclear so how's that going to work ?

Base load is reasonably constant, backed up by existing plants as required and you can vary the output of nuclear, hydro, Turlough Hill pumped storage etc.

darkpagandeath · 17-04-2014 12:19AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why are wind farms always painted white. They'd look much better if every turbine in a farm was a different colour

Base load is reasonably constant, backed up by existing plants as required and you can vary the output of nuclear, hydro, Turlough Hill pumped storage etc.

Bet it's health and safety

Capt'n Midnight · 17-04-2014 12:20AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Fusion is key longer term but isn't going to be commercially available in the short term.

More is being spent on Hinkely C than on the ITER reactor , so don't hold your breath.

We've reached the point where the raw energy out of a fusion experiment has exceeded the energy used to initiate it. Still a long way off from harvesting enough energy to run the experiment.
NIF experiments show initial gain in fusion fuel

Short of that micro generation is what we should be looking at now that there are proper smart meters being installed everywhere. If every house had a solar roof and every rural dwelling had a mini wind turbine the base generation capacity would be enormous and distributed far better than current.

Apart from, solar micro generators tend to be lot more inefficient and expensive compared to larger generators. for wind it's maybe four times the price , even before you compare the reduced amount of wind at urban rooftop level compared to a large turbine

SterlingArcher · 17-04-2014 12:25AM

visual wrote: »

Wind technology just isn't feasible at present
but nuclear power is.

We should have built a plant long ago but better later than never.

However no one wants it it there back garden so wherever they put it there will be nay sayers

If we discovered oil it be hassle getting it ashore with nay sayers

You do know this is Ireland?? Some kick the can company with 2 cold coins would get the contract to build this nuclear power station.
Then what?

Example....port tunnel.

RTE's Prime Time ran two reports (28 February and 4 March 2008 ) alleging that tunnel operator Transroute and the National Roads Authority were keeping the tunnel open in situations contrary to the tunnel safety manual. These included:

SCADA computer system failures Failure of the tunnel's jet fans used for fire fighting (up to fifteen in one incident) Blockage of vehicle crossover points with water containers The programme claimed that the tunnel safety manual had been re-written to allow the tunnel to remain open despite safety failures that would previously have required "immediate closer"

Now this tunnel ...won't obliterate part of our country destroy 90% of our natural resources. killing hundreds of thousands for years to come.....

Capt'n Midnight · 17-04-2014 12:25AM

theKillerBite wrote: »

By moving the control rods up and down.

The French tried that. Even when taking into account a variable power reactor was less efficient it still takes hours to change the output. If you have a SCRAM it can take three days to get restarted.

Gatling · 17-04-2014 12:27AM

What port tunnel disaster

( )

Seaneh · 17-04-2014 12:29AM

biko wrote: »

Burn Athlone, that should keep us warm for a couple months.

Sure we have all of Galway west of the Claddagh to burn first, would last a lot longer.

theKillerBite · 17-04-2014 12:34AM

Gatling wrote: »

What port tunnel disaster

( )

Great...

CrabRevolution · 17-04-2014 01:02AM

Any gas & oil resources I've ever heard about in Ireland are offshore. I'm probably just not up to date but do we even have any gas/oil under the land that would be viable for fracking?

Or are people just highlighting the lack of fracking to criticise the anti fracking types?

Dempsey · 17-04-2014 01:18AM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Any gas & oil resources I've ever heard about in Ireland are offshore. I'm probably just not up to date but do we even have any gas/oil under the land that would be viable for fracking?

Or are people just highlighting the lack of fracking to criticise the anti fracking types?

Leitrim has a newly discovered gas deposit afaik

17-04-2014 01:55AM

Dempsey wrote: »

Leitrim has a newly discovered gas deposit afaik

mapoilgasireland_aug2012.jpg

Yep. Area shown in attached map. West Clare too

deco nate · 17-04-2014 02:21AM

Free gas/oil for all.. (company's that grease the powers that be) nothing new
Here.

Menwhile, everyone else
Moans and debates bs..
While we all get shafted!

Sure this is the Irish way!!

Wind farms are the way forward. Cos we are full of it.

Jester252 · 17-04-2014 06:28AM

Welcome to NIMBYish OP. Watch other for the CAVE people and try to avoid the BANANAs

Stavros Murphy · 17-04-2014 08:24AM

comongethappy wrote: »

If we want to be serious about low carbon, alternatives need to be given priority.

As to the future if gas?
Who knows.

The only bit we have is perpetually blocked by some nut-bars in Mayo & some English hippies.

LOL. Anyone notice the sky the day before yesterday? I was driving down the west with a few of the lads. Blue, clear, not a cloud. Till the jet vapour-trails started to blow and spread. Within an hour or two, there was a haze across the entire sky - exactly like white cloud..which warms the planet. Multiply that by the millions of other jet airliner vapour trails forming man-made clouds and spewing kerosene into the atmosphere. That, and that itself, is altering our climate. It creates the ultimate greenhouse effect, literally. But is it mentioned? Nope.

Coal and gas are not our problem, our problem is air travel using inefficient jet engines that pollute the upper atmosphere and form man made cloud cover. And anyone who goes "ohh, chem-trails?? Conspiracy forum that way==>" - you are dense, just to let you know in advance. They're not chem trails, they're water vapour trails. I.E - cloud. And cloud cover traps heat, warming the atmosphere. Not to mention the millions of tonnes of CO2 they spew out.

cournioni · 17-04-2014 08:31AM

Robbo wrote: »

Remember kids: "But it'll effect the soaring value and beautiful amenity of my lovely Bungalow Bliss one off, dependent on the daysul Passat, house" is code for "I'm negotiating a better bribe".

Sounds better than living in a junkie infested city that's for sure. We should stick wind farms in towns and cities too. Dundalk have shown it can be done.

kneemos · 17-04-2014 08:42AM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

LOL. Anyone notice the sky the day before yesterday? I was driving down the west with a few of the lads. Blue, clear, not a cloud. Till the jet vapour-trails started to blow and spread. Within an hour or two, there was a haze across the entire sky - exactly like white cloud..which warms the planet. Multiply that by the millions of other jet airliner vapour trails forming man-made clouds and spewing kerosene into the atmosphere. That, and that itself, is altering our climate. It creates the ultimate greenhouse effect, literally. But is it mentioned? Nope.

Coal and gas are not our problem, our problem is air travel using inefficient jet engines that pollute the upper atmosphere and form man made cloud cover. And anyone who goes "ohh, chem-trails?? Conspiracy forum that way==>" - you are dense, just to let you know in advance. They're not chem trails, they're water vapour trails. I.E - cloud. And cloud cover traps heat, warming the atmosphere. Not to mention the millions of tonnes of CO2 they spew out.

Clouds reflect heat and help cool the atmosphere.
I have noticed jet streams spread out before,mostly in the mornings for whatever reason but mostly they seem to stay compact and dissipate quickly.

Calibos · 17-04-2014 09:07AM

Certain weather conditions in the upper atmosphere do make them hang around and seed high level cloud formation sometimes all right but it's not like it happens all the time. I don't dispute it's a contributory factor to climate change but I'll dispute it being any more than a very minor one. Bigger fish to fry etc.

astrofool · 17-04-2014 10:30AM

Gatling wrote: »

I'd have no problem with nuclear power stations here ,

But look at the port tunnel disaster ,

The luas lines with incompatible gauge rails supposedly by accident,

Now ask the government to build a nuclear power station now doesn't sound a very good idea at all does it

Both Luas lines use the same gauge, trains can be transferred from one to the other without issues, the loading gauge (distance between separate tracks) on the green line is wider to allow for future conversion to a Metro, so in fact this is an example of extremely good planning.

C14N · 17-04-2014 04:51PM

Gatling wrote: »

Now ask the government to build a nuclear power station now doesn't sound a very good idea at all does it

I don't think it's going to be Enda and co out building the reactors or anything. I'm quite sure whatever company they'd hire to build it would be a lot more rigorous with something like a power plant anyway.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why are wind farms always painted white. They'd look much better if every turbine in a farm was a different colour

I'm just guessing but I'd say it's so they don't attract heat which could damage them.

18-04-2014 12:38AM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

LOL. Anyone notice the sky the day before yesterday? I was driving down the west with a few of the lads. Blue, clear, not a cloud. Till the jet vapour-trails started to blow and spread. Within an hour or two, there was a haze across the entire sky - exactly like white cloud..which warms the planet. Multiply that by the millions of other jet airliner vapour trails forming man-made clouds and spewing kerosene into the atmosphere. That, and that itself, is altering our climate. It creates the ultimate greenhouse effect, literally. But is it mentioned? Nope.

Coal and gas are not our problem, our problem is air travel using inefficient jet engines that pollute the upper atmosphere and form man made cloud cover. And anyone who goes "ohh, chem-trails?? Conspiracy forum that way==>" - you are dense, just to let you know in advance. They're not chem trails, they're water vapour trails. I.E - cloud. And cloud cover traps heat, warming the atmosphere. Not to mention the millions of tonnes of CO2 they spew out.

Good point, but not quite right about this not been mentioned.
Seen this mentioned a number of times on various science type documentaries on TV and in a number of technology/science publications.

Far as I remember interest in this was triggered by the noticable recorded widening of high/low values in temperatures in the US in the days following the 3 day no-fly period after 9/11.

Seems accepted that commercial air traffic does impact temperatures at the Earth's surface, although by how much and in which direction — up or down — is still being worked out.

Stavros Murphy · 18-04-2014 07:48AM

323 wrote: »

Good point, but not quite right about this not been mentioned.
Seen this mentioned a number of times on various science type documentaries on TV and in a number of technology/science publications.

Far as I remember interest in this was triggered by the noticable recorded widening of high/low values in temperatures in the US in the days following the 3 day no-fly period after 9/11.

Seems accepted that commercial air traffic does impact temperatures at the Earth's surface, although by how much and in which direction — up or down — is still being worked out.

Consider for a moment the volcanic ash cloud and the effect that had on our climate - then look up. We have our man-made clouds being pumped out in staggering quantities daily. So, "climate change" is the hot potato right? Well there's a climate changer right there, above our heads. But all we hear about is CO2, ad nauseum. If any other industry had as much impact on the visible, tangible environment as the airline industry, there would be ructions. But I have yet to hear any Government call for action on this issue. Not a peep.

smoking_kills · 18-04-2014 09:17AM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Consider for a moment the volcanic ash cloud and the effect that had on our climate - then look up. We have our man-made clouds being pumped out in staggering quantities daily. So, "climate change" is the hot potato right? Well there's a climate changer right there, above our heads. But all we hear about is CO2, ad nauseum. If any other industry had as much impact on the visible, tangible environment as the airline industry, there would be ructions. But I have yet to hear any Government call for action on this issue. Not a peep.

Its still in debate about the effect of con trails, recent studies suggest they have little effect.

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081231/full/news.2008.1335.html

Quote

"Two studies1,2 noted that when planes stopped flying on 11–14 September 2001, the average daily temperature range in the United States rose markedly, exceeding the three-day periods before and after by an average of 1.8 °C. The unusual size of the shift, says David Travis of the University of Wisconsin–Whitewater, who led both of the earlier studies, implied that an absence of contrails gave the temperature range a significant boost. But that idea, he says, was "more like a hypothesis" than a firm conclusion.

Research led by Gang Hong, an atmospheric scientist at Texas A&M University in College Station, now suggests that this hypothesis is wrong3. Examining patterns of cloud cover and temperature in early September at US weather stations from 1971 to 2001, Hong and his colleagues found that thicker, low clouds are the dominant influence on temperature extremes, whereas high clouds such as contrails have a minor effect at most. They add that the 2001 temperature swings seem to be within the range of natural variability over those decades.

Hong's work doesn't prove that the contrails have no effect on temperature, just that they are unlikely to have a major role, says Ulrich Schumann, director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics at the German Aerospace Center in Oberpfaffenhofen, near Munich.

But that contrail effect, Schumann cautions, has been exaggerated in public discussions because the events of 2001 were so shocking. "Some not very good scientific arguments were misused," he says"

Chinasea · 18-04-2014 09:46AM

It really saddened me to see all those families and umpteen children out vehemently protesting against a possible wind-farm scheme. The biggest sin imo, is that they have brain washed their kids.

Why is it in Ireland there is always a negative pro-active mob out in force when perhaps there is a small chance that our country has a chance to evolve or map out a better and gawd forbid sustainable future. A future that could possibly assist appropriately in addressing, the fastest growing population in Europe.

We don't have oil, we have even better than that. We have abundant wind and water.

No Windfarms, No Fracking, No Nuclear Power ?

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