Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

robopaddy · 15-04-2014 6:00am

thesaturdayman wrote: »

only one player from the east of the county in starting 15? Senior clubs DLS, Gaultier & St. Saviours with no one? (even on the panel??) & also traditional football strongholds Tramore, Bonmahon etc.

Why is this? No players up to scratch or is it simply the eastern board isnt doing enough to promote football or is it the clubs or a mix??!

The players just arent good enough

hardybuck · 15-04-2014 9:55am

robopaddy wrote: »

The players just arent good enough

Not to attack you directly, but this is exactly the attitude which is killing us.

There are, and have been, very good players down there for many years who were consistently overlooked. I think last year the minors were almost thrown out onto the field without any proper trials or training sessions. The western management picked players they knew from the west as far as I remember.

One big issue is how to keep lads who come from big hurling clubs involved after underage. The county board and the eastern board need to come together to do something here. Many of them will play maybe one U21 club game at a random time of year, and will be thrown into a poor junior team. Faced with playing a small amount of games at a poor standard, many of them will go playing soccer instead to get regular fixtures.

I would equate the situation to western hurling up to recent years. There are a lot of good players from small clubs who are now getting access to good standard coaching and games via development squads and through schools hurling. This has had a huge impact on the amount of players coming through from those areas, and has had a positive impact on the county teams.

Horseboxhead · 15-04-2014 10:29am

your man centre forward must be some footballer to break into this western team and i'll bet he doesn't even play hurling, sharp intake of breath loud gasps all round, seriously though, what'e he doing on this team?, he'll know no one, it'll be Player this and number 8 give me the ball that , what a mess.

robopaddy · 15-04-2014 10:49am

hardybuck wrote: »

Not to attack you directly, but this is exactly the attitude which is killing us.

There are, and have been, very good players down there for many years who were consistently overlooked. I think last year the minors were almost thrown out onto the field without any proper trials or training sessions. The western management picked players they knew from the west as far as I remember.

One big issue is how to keep lads who come from big hurling clubs involved after underage. The county board and the eastern board need to come together to do something here. Many of them will play maybe one U21 club game at a random time of year, and will be thrown into a poor junior team. Faced with playing a small amount of games at a poor standard, many of them will go playing soccer instead to get regular fixtures.

I would equate the situation to western hurling up to recent years. There are a lot of good players from small clubs who are now getting access to good standard coaching and games via development squads and through schools hurling. This has had a huge impact on the amount of players coming through from those areas, and has had a positive impact on the county teams.

Im sorry dont mean to attack you back directly but its the same bull**** excuse when this argument arises here every year. 'The west dont want the east involved so they can only pick their own chronies... bla bla....' the management team from last year was led by jackson kiely. No fairer more honest football man in waterford who would trawl the county high and low for the right player... if he got the support.

When I say that players from the city arent good enough its because of the attitude and level of interest. If there is this weslth of you talent waiting in the wings to be given a fair crack they certainly have a funny way of showing it. Its the mindset that needs to change if the game is to develop. the west lads that are also from strong hurling clubs dont have an issue playing the big ball and take as much pride in representing their club and county no matter what the code is. Cant say the same from other areas of the county where football is looked down upon because of its reputation and lads are nearly half embarrassed to be seen playing it

robopaddy · 15-04-2014 10:55am

hardybuck wrote: »

Not to attack you directly, but this is exactly the attitude which is killing us.

There are, and have been, very good players down there for many years who were consistently overlooked. I think last year the minors were almost thrown out onto the field without any proper trials or training sessions. The western management picked players they knew from the west as far as I remember.

One big issue is how to keep lads who come from big hurling clubs involved after underage. The county board and the eastern board need to come together to do something here. Many of them will play maybe one U21 club game at a random time of year, and will be thrown into a poor junior team. Faced with playing a small amount of games at a poor standard, many of them will go playing soccer instead to get regular fixtures.

I would equate the situation to western hurling up to recent years. There are a lot of good players from small clubs who are now getting access to good standard coaching and games via development squads and through schools hurling. This has had a huge impact on the amount of players coming through from those areas, and has had a positive impact on the county teams.

Im sorry dont mean to attack you back directly but its the same bull**** excuse when this argument arises here every year. 'The west dont want the east involved so they can only pick their own chronies... bla bla....' the management team from last year was led by jackson kiely. No fairer more honest football man in waterford who would trawl the county high and low for the right player... if he got the support.

When I say that players from the city arent good enough its because of the attitude and level of interest. Its the mindset that needs to change if the game is to develop. the west lads that are also from strong hurling clubs dont have an issue playing the big ball and take as much pride in representing their club and county no matter what the code is. Cant say the same from other areas of the county where football is looked down upon because of its reputation and lads are nearly half embarrassed to be seen playing it

TheBomber14 · 15-04-2014 11:20am

robopaddy wrote: »

Im sorry dont mean to attack you back directly but its the same bull**** excuse when this argument arises here every year. 'The west dont want the east involved so they can only pick their own chronies... bla bla....' the management team from last year was led by jackson kiely. No fairer more honest football man in waterford who would trawl the county high and low for the right player... if he got the support.

When I say that players from the city arent good enough its because of the attitude and level of interest. Its the mindset that needs to change if the game is to develop. the west lads that are also from strong hurling clubs dont have an issue playing the big ball and take as much pride in representing their club and county no matter what the code is. Cant say the same from other areas of the county where football is looked down upon because of its reputation and lads are nearly half embarrassed to be seen playing it

Couldnt agree with you more! Its the attitude towards the game of football in certain pockets of the county/city that hinder the progress of the game not that there isnt the talent available. There seems to be a sort of attitude that you only play football if you cant play hurling in some clubs, not my attitude but in general you get that kind of sense from so called hurling "strongholds"..strides been made however, dls good example of this, last yrs intermediate co champs !..Its not just some city clubs however who have this superior attitude to one code over the other however, eveyrone here is saying its all "west" clubs represented on the minor panel.. in fact if you actually analyse the clubs represented it only covers a very small space . dungarvan and surronding areas basically, the traditional footballing region of the county, football is basically non existent in the far west clubs such as ballyduff, tallow, lismore, affane etc.. perhaps co board should do something to make sure both codes are treated properly in clubs, not sure myself how you would go about this problem!

hardybuck · 15-04-2014 12:26pm

robopaddy wrote: »

Im sorry dont mean to attack you back directly but its the same bull**** excuse when this argument arises here every year. 'The west dont want the east involved so they can only pick their own chronies... bla bla....' the management team from last year was led by jackson kiely. No fairer more honest football man in waterford who would trawl the county high and low for the right player... if he got the support.

When I say that players from the city arent good enough its because of the attitude and level of interest. If there is this weslth of you talent waiting in the wings to be given a fair crack they certainly have a funny way of showing it. Its the mindset that needs to change if the game is to develop. the west lads that are also from strong hurling clubs dont have an issue playing the big ball and take as much pride in representing their club and county no matter what the code is. Cant say the same from other areas of the county where football is looked down upon because of its reputation and lads are nearly half embarrassed to be seen playing it

It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. You've guys there with ability and potential who need to be developed. In an urban environment, you've got far more competition from other sports and other activities, you can't have a laisse faire attitude and expect that guys will always be interested.

Dublin, a county who were football giants for decades, needed to spend huge money on games promotion and club development to boost the profile of football as well as hurling, to fend off soccer and rugby. They are now reaping the benefits of that investment.

Jackson liked to turn up to junior and intermediate county finals and pick one or two lads off the eastern teams who competed in them. The lads which he had a habit of picking were interested but very average.

In the current senior football setup, there is a city based selector. Suddenly you have more city and eastern involvement. There is a DLS player on the team for probably the first time in a decade, rather than DLS players who needed to join Stradbally to further their ambitions.

hardybuck · 15-04-2014 12:32pm

TheBomber14 wrote: »

Couldnt agree with you more! Its the attitude towards the game of football in certain pockets of the county/city that hinder the progress of the game not that there isnt the talent available. There seems to be a sort of attitude that you only play football if you cant play hurling in some clubs, not my attitude but in general you get that kind of sense from so called hurling "strongholds"..strides been made however, dls good example of this, last yrs intermediate co champs !..Its not just some city clubs however who have this superior attitude to one code over the other however, eveyrone here is saying its all "west" clubs represented on the minor panel.. in fact if you actually analyse the clubs represented it only covers a very small space . dungarvan and surronding areas basically, the traditional footballing region of the county, football is basically non existent in the far west clubs such as ballyduff, tallow, lismore, affane etc.. perhaps co board should do something to make sure both codes are treated properly in clubs, not sure myself how you would go about this problem!

I remember looking at a county minor teamsheet a couple of years back, and seeing lads from Roanmore and Mount Sion on the team. Where are those lads now?

The reality is that they're either not playing the game, or playing a handful of games a year at a very bad level. It's almost impossible to develop in that environment, and until a solution is found to get around that, Waterford will suffer.

Deise_2012 · 15-04-2014 3:50pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I remember looking at a county minor teamsheet a couple of years back, and seeing lads from Roanmore and Mount Sion on the team. Where are those lads now?

The reality is that they're either not playing the game, or playing a handful of games a year at a very bad level. It's almost impossible to develop in that environment, and until a solution is found to get around that, Waterford will suffer.

They were the nolan twins from roanmore, mickey merrigan also. Ian gagley from mount sion also. The Nolans have more interest in soccer as does Merrigan but he's playing for Saviours in senior football also. Gagley more interested in hurling but recovering from a cruciate knee injury atm

TheBomber14 · 15-04-2014 4:46pm

I just dont think there is any effort to promote football in certain clubs and areas of waterford. Dont want to name clubs cause i definitley dont have a personal agenda against any club/area, but definitley clubs in the far west and clubs in and around the city should be doing more to promote the game. Certain teams dont even enter football teams, which i definitley dont agree with.

hardybuck · 15-04-2014 4:54pm

TheBomber14 wrote: »

I just dont think there is any effort to promote football in certain clubs and areas of waterford. Dont want to name clubs cause i definitley dont have a personal agenda against any club/area, but definitley clubs in the far west and clubs in and around the city should be doing more to promote the game. Certain teams dont even enter football teams, which i definitley dont agree with.

You'd be absolutely right. It doesn't help that most of their exposure to the game is at a bad level, which doesn't make it very enjoyable.

All of the clubs will have some interested people, who could probably do with a little help in terms of promoting the game.

mariano rivera · 15-04-2014 6:30pm

TheBomber14 wrote: »

I just dont think there is any effort to promote football in certain clubs and areas of waterford. Dont want to name clubs cause i definitley dont have a personal agenda against any club/area, but definitley clubs in the far west and clubs in and around the city should be doing more to promote the game. Certain teams dont even enter football teams, which i definitley dont agree with.

I would disagree with this

I think the fault lies with the Football Clubs or people who have interest in Football in Waterford

There are plenty of Football Clubs in Waterford and plenty that would have a Dual interest

The simple fact is that that we don't play that much football in Waterford

If you play Senior Club you might get a couple of Championship games, a few league games which are often not completed

And that's about it

Talk to anyone who plays in other counties and they will have league/ cup/ county championship/ local championship games ALL YEAR

The dual club excuse is rubbish. Talk to anyone who plays in Cork and they have LOADS of games all year

Football is played in the North ALL YEAR ROUND

Why we cant have regional championships in Waterford is beyond me

Look at Kerry. Divisional Teams, Local championships. North Kerry Championship takes place around Christmas

How you going to be good at something if you don't play it

thesaturdayman · 15-04-2014 7:36pm

that is a good point, why not have a divisional championship at senior level before the main championship.... and make the main championship an all county at all grades??

Mountainlad · 15-04-2014 8:07pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Not to attack you directly, but this is exactly the attitude which is killing us.

There are, and have been, very good players down there for many years who were consistently overlooked. I think last year the minors were almost thrown out onto the field without any proper trials or training sessions. The western management picked players they knew from the west as far as I remember.

One big issue is how to keep lads who come from big hurling clubs involved after underage. The county board and the eastern board need to come together to do something here. Many of them will play maybe one U21 club game at a random time of year, and will be thrown into a poor junior team. Faced with playing a small amount of games at a poor standard, many of them will go playing soccer instead to get regular fixtures.

I would equate the situation to western hurling up to recent years. There are a lot of good players from small clubs who are now getting access to good standard coaching and games via development squads and through schools hurling. This has had a huge impact on the amount of players coming through from those areas, and has had a positive impact on the county teams.

They had awful preparation last year, but it was easily the best minor teams in the last 10 years and what was more startling was the amount of dual players that made themselves available.

Daly, Cormac Curran, Conor Gleeson, Devine, William Hahessy, Paul O Connor, Dermot Ryan not sure but Harney might have been involved too.

hardybuck · 15-04-2014 10:06pm

If you play club football in Dublin you get about 25 competitive games a year. If teams had a 2 week gap in fixtures they organise friendlies.

If you want to do that in Waterford you'll be playing soccer.

robopaddy · 16-04-2014 3:58am

mariano rivera wrote: »

I would disagree with this

I think the fault lies with the Football Clubs or people who have interest in Football in Waterford

There are plenty of Football Clubs in Waterford and plenty that would have a Dual interest

The simple fact is that that we don't play that much football in Waterford

If you play Senior Club you might get a couple of Championship games, a few league games which are often not completed

And that's about it

Talk to anyone who plays in other counties and they will have league/ cup/ county championship/ local championship games ALL YEAR

The dual club excuse is rubbish. Talk to anyone who plays in Cork and they have LOADS of games all year

Football is played in the North ALL YEAR ROUND

Why we cant have regional championships in Waterford is beyond me

Look at Kerry. Divisional Teams, Local championships. North Kerry Championship takes place around Christmas

How you going to be good at something if you don't play it

There is the same amount of senior football teams in waterford as there is hurling. To say there are more hurling games than football is nonsence

hurler on de ditch · 16-04-2014 8:00am

IM afraid its all the same ,Hurling /Football ,we are in a county where we are so divided its unreal (east vs west)128 years in existence and 2 senior all Irelands hurling,and 1 senior football final appearence (1898) we are where we are because the people who are running ( into the ground)it are as draconian as you can get ,,,me me me ,,they they they ,,on average we win an Ireland one every 64 years ,,,,,,,

hardybuck · 16-04-2014 9:38am

robopaddy wrote: »

There is the same amount of senior football teams in waterford as there is hurling. To say there are more hurling games than football is nonsence

Where did he say that? Hurling is a minority sport, there is less competition nationally, therefore maybe we're getting away with it a little in terms of our club structures.

STIG83 · 16-04-2014 9:39am

Article about Brick on the Indo, saying he one of the senior players on the squad as Tony Browne no longer involved.
Has he retired then?

TheBomber14 · 16-04-2014 10:49am

STIG83 wrote: »

Article about Brick on the Indo, saying he one of the senior players on the squad as Tony Browne no longer involved.
Has he retired then?

Hes still playing for mt sion anyway im told.

O Riain · 16-04-2014 11:17am

Sully banned for Cork game.

blue note · 16-04-2014 11:49am

O Riain wrote: »

Sully banned for Cork game.

Ffs! That was a very harsh red! Nothing we can do about it now anyway.

3ships · 16-04-2014 7:54pm

W 2.4 tip 1.8 latest

Mountainlad · 16-04-2014 8:07pm

Minors going well, hope they prevail.

Absolute farce what happened to Sully. Twice now the GAA have upheld red cards when there was video evidence they were unfair. Seems like they're not bothered unless they get media pressure. Absolute joke.

3ships · 16-04-2014 8:08pm

2.6 to 1.9 ten left

Mountainlad · 16-04-2014 8:27pm

2-11 to 2-7. Fairplay to them, they gave it a great rattle.

808 in attendance apparently, sounds like a big crowd to me.

Cornerstoner · 16-04-2014 8:34pm

Anyone know who they are playing next in the play off?

Boom__Boom · 16-04-2014 8:37pm

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Anyone know who they are playing next in the play off?

Clare v Limerick play this night week then winner of Clare/Limerick v Waterford => winner plays Cork in one semi with the other semi Tipp v Kerry

culbaire · 16-04-2014 9:28pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Minors going well, hope they prevail.

Absolute farce what happened to Sully. Twice now the GAA have upheld red cards when there was video evidence they were unfair. Seems like they're not bothered unless they get media pressure. Absolute joke.

In all probability he was nailed by the referee in his report. Perhaps the referee needs a pair of glasses. The sight mustn't be too good with him. That does not exonerate the so called disciplinary committee from responsibility for an idiotic decision. There was video evidence available to show that this was innocuous.
Even a simpleton could see that. The clowns who made the decision should resign. It will be interesting to see how this committee deals with any disciplinary problems involving Tipperary, Cork, Kilkenny or Dublin this year. Will be watching carefully to see is there consistency. Who are the"geniuses" who made this decision?

culbaire · 16-04-2014 9:45pm

TheBomber14 wrote: »

Couldnt agree with you more! Its the attitude towards the game of football in certain pockets of the county/city that hinder the progress of the game not that there isnt the talent available. There seems to be a sort of attitude that you only play football if you cant play hurling in some clubs, not my attitude but in general you get that kind of sense from so called hurling "strongholds"..strides been made however, dls good example of this, last yrs intermediate co champs !..Its not just some city clubs however who have this superior attitude to one code over the other however, eveyrone here is saying its all "west" clubs represented on the minor panel.. in fact if you actually analyse the clubs represented it only covers a very small space . dungarvan and surronding areas basically, the traditional footballing region of the county, football is basically non existent in the far west clubs such as ballyduff, tallow, lismore, affane etc.. perhaps co board should do something to make sure both codes are treated properly in clubs, not sure myself how you would go about this problem!

Have a good look at the situation in Wexford. Hurling one week, football the next. They are useless at both codes now. Nobody is going to be forced to play football by the Country Board. The quicker you understand that the better. In Kilkenny which has a small population base they concentrate on hurling. Result is that they win All Irelands in hurling. They just laugh at the set up in Wexford which is now a joke in hurling and football at Inter County level.

Small counties like Waterford, Wexford cannot play both games equally well. There is plenty of mediocrity in Wexford now. Look at Kerry. Football is much better treated in Waterford than hurling is in Kerry. Kerry concentrates on football. It wins All Irelands. Cork is a dual county. It has a huge population base. Not even Cork can win Senior Football All Irelands on a regular basis. Not even Dublin with its huge population base can win All Irelands in both codes. Remember this: We lack the population base and financial resources to be a successful dual county. Sure our Country Board is all but bankrupt.

In fact a huge effort will be required if we are to bridge the gap at hurling. Clare has jumped far ahead of us in terms of basic skills. There seems to be a huge assumption in Waterford that we have a large number of skilful young hurlers. We have some but not enough. We need to win an ALL Ireland in minor hurling every five or six years if we are serious about dominating Senior Inter County hurling. At best out of the 2013 Minor team we will probably get four or five players. In fact it may be less. Who knows?

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Comments