Undertaking in bus lanes.

robertxxx · 13-04-2014 01:05AM #1

I get the impression that people think this is ok!

It's illegal to drive in a bus lane, never mind speed in one.

Why not just overtake? That way Your going to be breaking the speed limit only and not driving in an restricted area?

:mad

evolving_doors · 13-04-2014 01:13AM

Not always illegal to undertake.. once a lane opens to cars at a certain time I'm in like flynn... Also if I'm turning left ....eventually..

Sobanek · 13-04-2014 01:21AM

robertxxx wrote: »

I get the impression that people think this is ok!

It's illegal to drive in a bus lane, never mind speed in one.

Why not just overtake? That way Your going to be breaking the speed limit only and not driving in an restricted area?

:mad

Some Bus Lanes in Dublin are 07:00 - 19:00, Monday to Saturday.

And I never get why people say undertaking is so dangerous. Are cars in Ireland not equipped with a left wing mirror or something?

ba_barabus · 13-04-2014 01:33AM

Sobanek wrote: »

Some Bus Lanes in Dublin are 07:00 - 19:00, Monday to Saturday.

And I never get why people say undertaking is so dangerous. Are cars in Ireland not equipped with a left wing mirror or something?

Irish drivers are much like Derek Zoolander in that they can only turn one way. They're not ambi-turners

CiniO · 13-04-2014 02:04AM

Generally bus lanes are no different to anything else, so undertaking on them is illegal - and that includes buses. (there is no exception in law for buses).

Obviously undertaking in slow moving traffic is legal.
But when cars on other lanes do 40km/h and bus is undertaking them on bus lane at 50km/h that's definitely illegal.

Chris_Heilong · 13-04-2014 02:31AM

after operational hours when bus lanes become open to the public everyone should be using them.

650Ginge · 13-04-2014 08:54AM

My understanding is that you can pass on the left if the traffic in the left lane is moving faster than the traffic in the right lane.

The grey is the drivers who come up in the left lane move right to overtake and then move left out of the empty right lane to continue.

whiskeyman · 13-04-2014 10:34AM

A common scenario I find is a car trying to turn right against a busy flow of traffic and there's a bus lane to their left.
Cars approaching from behind will use bus lane, as long as no bus coming, to undertake car and rejoin the driving lane.
Has anyone ever been pulled in for this?
I see it the whole time, and do it myself tbh.

CiniO · 13-04-2014 10:40AM

650Ginge wrote: »

My understanding is that you can pass on the left if the traffic in the left lane is moving faster than the traffic in the right lane.

You can, but only when traffic moves slowly.

The grey is the drivers who come up in the left lane move right to overtake and then move left out of the empty right lane to continue.

I think you meant opposite.
But anyway legality of undertaking is not affected by fact if someone changes lane before and after maneuver or not.

CiniO · 13-04-2014 10:40AM

650Ginge wrote: »

My understanding is that you can pass on the left if the traffic in the left lane is moving faster than the traffic in the right lane.

You can, but only when traffic moves slowly.

The grey is the drivers who come up in the left lane move right to overtake and then move left out of the empty right lane to continue.

I think you meant opposite.
But anyway legality of undertaking is not affected by fact if someone changes lane before and after maneuver or not.

roper1664 · 13-04-2014 10:59AM

From the rules of the road:

You may overtake on the left when:
-You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right
-You have signalled that you intend to turn left
-Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane

I think these covers all scenarios mentioned in this thread. Sometimes it's best to just quote the rules of the road or the road traffic act next time a thread like this starts.

Regarding bus lanes, as posted already these are not all 24 hr and you should use these when they open (as best driving practice only).

Regarding speeding, this is controlled by the Gardai and private camera operators. This is not another driver's concern.

CiniO · 13-04-2014 11:06AM

roper1664 wrote: »

From the rules of the road:

You may overtake on the left when:
-You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that you intend to turn left
-You have signalled that you intend to turn left
-Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane

I think these covers all scenarios mentioned in this thread. Sometimes it's best to just quote the rules of the road or the road traffic act next time a thread like this starts.

Regarding bus lanes, as posted already these are not all 24 hr and you should use these when they open (as best driving practice only).

Regarding speeding, this is controlled by the Gardai and private camera operators. This is not another driver's concern.

Should it not say instead:
-You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that he intend to turn right

???

jameshayes · 13-04-2014 11:06AM

roper1664 wrote: »

From the rules of the road:

You may overtake on the left when:
-You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that you intend to turn left
-You have signalled that you intend to turn left
-Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane

I think these covers all scenarios mentioned in this thread. Sometimes it's best to just quote the rules of the road or the road traffic act next time a thread like this starts.

Regarding bus lanes, as posted already these are not all 24 hr and you should use these when they open (as best driving practice only).

Regarding speeding, this is controlled by the Gardai and private camera operators. This is not another driver's concern.

The rules of the road are great, but they are not laws and are very much open to interpretation.

eg. Define the word slowly in point 3? 5kmph, 10kmph? In some opinions 50kmph could be considered slowly compared to 100kmph

CiniO · 13-04-2014 11:08AM

jameshayes wrote: »

The rules of the road are great, but they are not laws and are very much open to interpretation.

Thing is, that in that case laws say exactly the same.

eg. Define the word slowly in point 3? 5kmph, 10kmph? In some opinions 50kmph could be considered slowly compared to 100kmph

Surely on 50km/h speed limit road, 40km/h or 50km/h can not be considered slow. 5 or 10km/h can.

roper1664 · 13-04-2014 11:08AM

CiniO wrote: »

Should it not say instead:
-You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that he intend to turn right

???

Yes, typo

roper1664 · 13-04-2014 11:15AM

JamesHayes, yes, it's not very clear in the ROTR but that's because if they gave exact figures/criteria it would be very difficult to control. It's to make the point that you shouldn't but your foot down and power up the lane to the left to get ahead of a car to the right.

evolving_doors · 13-04-2014 11:16AM

Aye basically if you want to undertake in the bus lane just shtick on the left indicator and put on the muck savage accent if stopped by guards..."im up from the country guard... no idea whats goingon with these rules in the big city.. I think I was meant to turn left... where are you from yourself guard.. hows yer father..etc.."

K.Flyer · 13-04-2014 11:24AM

CiniO wrote: »

Generally bus lanes are no different to anything else, so undertaking on them is illegal - and that includes buses. (there is no exception in law for buses).

Obviously undertaking in slow moving traffic is legal.
But when cars on other lanes do 40km/h and bus is undertaking them on bus lane at 50km/h that's definitely illegal.

That part makes no sense, The reason for Bus Lanes was so that Buses and Taxis could pass the slower moving traffic as long as they don't break the speed limit themselves, otherwise whats the point in them.

CiniO · 13-04-2014 11:28AM

K.Flyer wrote: »

That part makes no sense, The reason for Bus Lanes was so that Buses and Taxis could pass the slower moving traffic as long as they don't break the speed limit themselves, otherwise whats the point in them.

I just said what the law says.

K.Flyer · 13-04-2014 11:45AM

CiniO wrote: »

I just said what the law says.

I don't see anything in the RotR about buses having to maintain an equal or lesser speed to traffic in other lanes whilst using the bus lane.
They are not undertaking in the strictest terms of the law. They are using a lane for what it was designed for.

CiniO · 13-04-2014 11:50AM

K.Flyer wrote: »

I don't see anything in the RotR about buses having to maintain an equal or lesser speed to traffic in other lanes whilst using the bus lane.
They are not undertaking in the strictest terms of the law. They are using a lane for what it was designed for.

This:

(5) A driver may only overtake on the left—

( a ) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled an intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,
( b ) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention,
( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a10

When bus is driving faster on bus lane (located on left side of the road) than other traffic, then it is overtaking on the left, which is prohibited except in cases listed above.

RandomAccess · 13-04-2014 11:56AM

Once 7pm rolls around its open season.
If the traffic in the right lane is backed up, then you can use the other lane without issue. Of course you need to use it with care as there is a chance of someone changing lane ahead of you.

However someone maybe aluded to using the bus lane during restricted hours when turning left, you won't get away with this though I've seen a lot of people getting caught.

K.Flyer · 13-04-2014 12:02PM

If this was being applied to bus drivers in the general Dublin Area the courts would be choc a block with bus drivers up on undertaking charges and it would be like shooting fish in a barrel for the Garda to catch them.
So there is obviously some type of exception applied to buses using bus lanes because they fly past the traffic.
Or is it a socially acceptable norm for buses to progress as long as they don't break the speed limit in the same way as its socially acceptable for emergency vehicles to get where they are going to as quick as possible by whatever means.

CiniO · 13-04-2014 12:08PM

K.Flyer wrote: »

So there is obviously some type of exception applied to buses using bus lanes because they fly past the traffic.

I looked for one some time ago for a good while with no effect.
I don't believe there is any exception.

Or is it a socially acceptable norm for buses to progress as long as they don't break the speed limit

I suppose that's the only explanation.

in the same way as its socially acceptable for emergency vehicles to get where they are going to as quick as possible by whatever means.

Isn't there a law allowing emergency vehicles driving with sirens on, to not obey traffic laws?

corktina · 13-04-2014 12:10PM

I thought the bus lane was treated as a separate road and you join at the start and leave at the end, not crossing the solid white line in between. When the lane is not in use, the white line "disappears" and the lane becomes the driving lane and you may not undertake

CiniO · 13-04-2014 12:15PM

corktina wrote: »

I thought the bus lane was treated as a separate road and you join at the start and leave at the end, not crossing the solid white line in between. When the lane is not in use, the white line "disappears" and the lane becomes the driving lane and you may not undertake

While your proposal makes sense, it doesn't work like that.

djimi · 13-04-2014 12:39PM

corktina wrote: »

I thought the bus lane was treated as a separate road and you join at the start and leave at the end, not crossing the solid white line in between. When the lane is not in use, the white line "disappears" and the lane becomes the driving lane and you may not undertake

The problem is that there doesnt seem to be any clear definition of exactly what a bus lane is.

My understanding is that a bus lane is a seperate carraigeway; its not the left hand lane and doenst become the driving lane when its not in operation (ie you are not obliged to drive in the bus lane when it is out of hours). As such, normal undertaking laws do not apply. None of this however is written down to the best of my knowledge, so it becomes a free for all of opinion when this topic comes up, as nobody ever seems to know exactly what the legal situation of bus lanes actually is.

micraX · 13-04-2014 12:41PM

I do often be traveling into Dublin city in a tractor and trailer. I come up the r132/n1 by swords santeh etc. I go fairly hard mow, 43km/h top speed, I am still not a bus, yet some people don't notice this and blow me out of I and point ant the bus lane then fly up it themselves I usuall wave I they catch my eye. Why should I be subjected to this when it's clear I'm not a bus( bus lanes where closed I always look at signs)
The tractor is fully taxed, insured, lights working, reflectors, beacons, trailer has breakaway chain, brakes, lights, number plate so it's all legal. And I do be delivering vegetables into the Dublin market for those who think I shouldn't be delivering in a tractor.

corktina · 13-04-2014 12:53PM

ANy way, can we drop the subject now before too many people cop on that a bus lane is not always a bus lane :-)

K.Flyer · 13-04-2014 01:36PM

micraX wrote: »

I do often be traveling into Dublin city in a tractor and trailer. I come up the r132/n1 by swords santeh etc. I go fairly hard mow, 43km/h top speed, I am still not a bus, yet some people don't notice this and blow me out of I and point ant the bus lane then fly up it themselves I usuall wave I they catch my eye. Why should I be subjected to this when it's clear I'm not a bus( bus lanes where closed I always look at signs)
The tractor is fully taxed, insured, lights working, reflectors, beacons, trailer has breakaway chain, brakes, lights, number plate so it's all legal. And I do be delivering vegetables into the Dublin market for those who think I shouldn't be delivering in a tractor.

That section of road linking the Malahide Rd and the roundabout at Bewleys Hotel just off the M1 does not have a Bus Lane in either direction. They are old road markings, but it is not a Bus Lane.
I rang Coolock Garda Station a couple of years ago to clarify this as at the time I was using this road quite often.

micraX · 13-04-2014 01:45PM

K.Flyer wrote: »

That section of road linking the Malahide Rd and the roundabout at Bewleys Hotel just off the M1 does not have a Bus Lane in either direction. They are old road markings, but it is not a Bus Lane.
I rang Coolock Garda Station a couple of years ago to clarify this as at the time I was using this road quite often.

That's nice, but that's the n32 your talking about. I'm talking about the r132 formally know as the n1 which has a bus lane from the pavilions roundabout to santry.

Undertaking in bus lanes.

Comments