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Undertaking in bus lanes.

12346

Comments

  • #152
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    visual wrote: »
    If you don't know the bus lane hours its difficult to spot the times driving along at normal speed.
    If you pass the start of bus lane without noticing it could be a while before another sign is shown

    anyway most new bus lanes seem to be all 24hr

    Off to Specsavers you go....I can read them OK


  • #153
    Moomat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Moomat


    visual wrote: »
    Dublin bus employed a strategy to make better progress and that is bus will indicate and pull away from bus stop including bus stops that are in off the road without waiting for gap in traffic or a curious driver to let them out.
    There is no laws for this but its done everyday by dublin bus

    Are you saying that Dublin Bus have instructed their drivers to pull out into traffic regardless of whether there is a space, to ensure they cover the route faster?


  • #154
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭visual


    corktina wrote: »
    Off to Specsavers you go....I can read them OK

    but from how far away can you read the times
    or is it a hard left with pedal to the metal


  • #155
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭visual


    Moomat wrote: »
    Are you saying that Dublin Bus have instructed their drivers to pull out into traffic regardless of whether there is a space, to ensure they cover the route faster?

    Yes they are instructed to drive progressively and that means putting the indicator on and moving off to create their space rather than wait.

    If your driving in traffic in Dublin watch the buses pull away from stops and you will notice it is different compared to other divers like lorry drivers


  • #156
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    djimi wrote: »
    Is there anything written in law or otherwise to clarify this? There seems to be a lot of talk on this subject with very little to back it up either way.

    Bus Lanes
    32. (1) A bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 028 or traffic sign number RUS 029 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024, and a contra flow bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 030 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024.

    (2) A person shall not enter a bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus or a pedal cycle during the period of operation of the bus lane which shall be indicated on an information plate.

    (3) A person shall not enter a contra flow bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus.

    (4) A person shall not enter a bus only street with a vehicle other than an omnibus except for the purpose of access.

    (5) ( a ) Sub-articles (1) and (2) shall not apply to a vehicle crossing a with flow bus lane or a contra flow bus lane solely for the purpose—
    (i) of entering or leaving premises or property adjacent to such a bus lane, or
    (ii) of entering or leaving a road inset adjacent to such a bus lane in order to load or unload goods.
    ( b ) Sub-article (2) shall not apply to a taxi or a wheelchair accessible taxi which is being used in the course of business.


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  • #157
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    It's graaand! :-)


  • #158
    degsie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,761 ✭✭✭degsie


    Sean Kinvarra wrote: »
    Bus Lanes
    32. (1) A bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 028 or traffic sign number RUS 029 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024, and a contra flow bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 030 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024.

    (2) A person shall not enter a bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus or a pedal cycle during the period of operation of the bus lane which shall be indicated on an information plate.

    (3) A person shall not enter a contra flow bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus.

    (4) A person shall not enter a bus only street with a vehicle other than an omnibus except for the purpose of access.

    (5) ( a ) Sub-articles (1) and (2) shall not apply to a vehicle crossing a with flow bus lane or a contra flow bus lane solely for the purpose—
    (i) of entering or leaving premises or property adjacent to such a bus lane, or
    (ii) of entering or leaving a road inset adjacent to such a bus lane in order to load or unload goods.
    ( b ) Sub-article (2) shall not apply to a taxi or a wheelchair accessible taxi which is being used in the course of business.

    Yup, that's cleared it up....


  • #159
    djimi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Sean Kinvarra wrote: »
    Bus Lanes
    32. (1) A bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 028 or traffic sign number RUS 029 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024, and a contra flow bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 030 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024.

    (2) A person shall not enter a bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus or a pedal cycle during the period of operation of the bus lane which shall be indicated on an information plate.

    (3) A person shall not enter a contra flow bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus.

    (4) A person shall not enter a bus only street with a vehicle other than an omnibus except for the purpose of access.

    (5) ( a ) Sub-articles (1) and (2) shall not apply to a vehicle crossing a with flow bus lane or a contra flow bus lane solely for the purpose—
    (i) of entering or leaving premises or property adjacent to such a bus lane, or
    (ii) of entering or leaving a road inset adjacent to such a bus lane in order to load or unload goods.
    ( b ) Sub-article (2) shall not apply to a taxi or a wheelchair accessible taxi which is being used in the course of business.

    What part of that states that a bus Lane reverts to a normal Lane out of hours?


  • #160
    mackerski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭mackerski


    djimi wrote: »
    What part of that states that a bus Lane reverts to a normal Lane out of hours?

    All lanes are normal lanes in the absence of any law declaring them otherwise. The legislation quoted does this for bus lanes during the indicated hours. Outside those hours the lane remains what it always was.


  • #161
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    You would never see a bus or taxi being pulled in for undertaking at any speed within the limit when bus lanes are out of use, yet a Garda wouldn't hesitate in pulling in anyone else for doing this. Maybe any Garda or RSA expert can tell me why.


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  • #162
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    32 (2) answers your question


  • #163
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    corktina wrote: »
    Have you got that right? would it not be open to all traffic until 7am?
    djimi wrote: »
    What part of that states that a bus Lane reverts to a normal Lane out of hours?
    robertxxx wrote: »
    What i should of said is why do "some" people overtake in the bus lane? Why not just overtake the traditional way. (On the right hand side).
    Like this morning, road has low volume of traffic on it, I'm doing the limit, car comes up behind me and overtakes in the bus lane and then back into the lane.

    If by any chance their caught by the cops they would be done for speeding and driving in a bus lane "maybe" seen as reckless driving by a cop.
    So why not just overtake?


    He would have been charged for speeding no matter what lane he passed in. Buses undertake after bus hours also, so why do the Gardai not pull them in if it's illegaly and as dangerous as we are led to believe?. And those who think it is not a grey area should be able to answer my question


  • #164
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    I don't understand why threads like this aren't moved to the "Learning to Drive" section.

    Can any mod address this? Genuine query, not trying to start a row.


  • #165
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,570 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    porsche959 wrote: »
    I don't understand why threads like this aren't moved to the "Learning to Drive" section.

    Can any mod address this? Genuine query, not trying to start a row.
    Most people here would be experienced drivers, and even we can't agree, never mind learners!


  • #166
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Most people here would be experienced drivers, and even we can't agree, never mind learners!

    You have to start from the top ie the RSA. They don't agree with undertaking yet they do agree with free flowing traffic. That is a total contradiction. If traffic on outside lane is traveling at 20kmh or 30kmh which is not stop - start traffic, why are buses or taxis not allowed to pass on inside when bus lanes are not in operation just total stupidity. What next, is there a law that states that cyclists are not allowed undertake?


  • #167
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    djimi wrote: »
    Slow moving traffic is slow moving traffic; Im pretty sure anyone who drives a car knows what this means and I doubt many judges would believe otherwise! I have been on a dual carraigeway with three solid lanes of cars all doing 60km/h that I would still consider to be slow moving traffic for the purpose of overtaking, as if the left hand lane is doing 5km/h faster than the right hand lane, no Garda is going to prosecute for overtaking on the left in this instance, and its just a one solid line of traffic moving slightly faster than another solid line of traffic.

    The way that it is written in the traffic act is ambiguous, but it also leaves it up to common sense to interpret.
    What the RSA mean by slow moving traffic is Stop - Starting traffic. That's the reply I got back when I enquired about this. Still doesn't give maximum speed allowed. If the RSA thing undertaking is dangerous why don't the Gardai stop buses and taxis from undertaking other traffic when bus lanes are out of use? How many times have you seen Gardai stopping private vehicles for using bus lanes a few mins before out of use, yet if they waited a few mins longer they would catch buses and taxis undertaking.


  • #168
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,962 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Whatever about the RSA and bus and taxi drivers the important thing is that undertaking is illegal.


  • #169
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Whatever about the RSA and bus and taxi drivers the important thing is that undertaking is illegal.

    Nah, it's not really.


  • #170
    The Dagda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    Sean Kinvarra wrote: »
    What the RSA mean by slow moving traffic is Stop - Starting traffic. That's the reply I got back when I enquired about this. Still doesn't give maximum speed allowed. If the RSA thing undertaking is dangerous why don't the Gardai stop buses and taxis from undertaking other traffic when bus lanes are out of use? How many times have you seen Gardai stopping private vehicles for using bus lanes a few mins before out of use, yet if they waited a few mins longer they would catch buses and taxis undertaking.

    Did the RSA give you the reply in writing?


  • #171
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    The Dagda wrote: »
    Did the RSA give you the reply in writing?

    The RSA have nothing to do with interpretation of legislation so I wouldn't be heeding their advice that's for sure.


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  • #172
    The Dagda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    enda1 wrote: »
    The RSA have nothing to do with interpretation of legislation so I wouldn't be heeding their advice that's for sure.

    I know that but I'm just interested to see if the RSA were willing to put in writing what Sean claims they said.


  • #173
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    The Dagda wrote: »
    I know that but I'm just interested to see if the RSA were willing to put in writing what Sean claims they said.

    Ah I get ye now. Would be stupid of them to unleash that shitstorm!


  • #174
    The Dagda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    enda1 wrote: »
    Ah I get ye now. Would be stupid of them to unleash that shitstorm!

    If they didn't give him the reply in writing then Sean shouldn't be claiming to have a definitive answer from the RSA.


  • #175
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,962 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I wouldn't believe his radio.


  • #176
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Whatever about the RSA and bus and taxi drivers the important thing is that undertaking is illegal.

    Yes and also illegal for buses and taxis when open to all traffic, and that's also important for those who don't know this


  • #177
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    The Dagda wrote: »
    If they didn't give him the reply in writing then Sean shouldn't be claiming to have a definitive answer from the RSA.

    As I previously said. The RSA emailed me back to say that slow moving traffic means "stop start' traffic... Maybe you should ask for their definition an let us know their reply.


  • #178
    djimi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Id be interested to see how a judge interprets it. The RSA can say what they like, their opinion is only a guide and doesnt hold a lot of weight really. I suspect in court it would come down to the individual situation and not some hard and fast definition.


  • #179
    The Dagda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    Sean Kinvarra wrote: »
    As I previously said. The RSA emailed me back to say that slow moving traffic means "stop start' traffic... Maybe you should ask for their definition an let us know their reply.

    I simply don't believe that the RSA sent you an email saying that. Who signed the email?

    Does anyone have a link to the actual legislation that would cover overtaking on the left?


  • #180
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,570 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    The Dagda wrote: »
    I simply don't believe that the RSA sent you an email saying that. Who signed the email?

    Does anyone have a link to the actual legislation that would cover overtaking on the left?

    It's been quoted and linked to many times in this thread. Go to irishstatutebook.ie and search for "overtake".


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  • #181
    Sean Kinvarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Sean Kinvarra


    The Dagda wrote: »
    I simply don't believe that the RSA sent you an email saying that. Who signed the email?

    Does anyone have a link to the actual legislation that would cover overtaking on the left?

    The person to send your enquiry to is Michael Dolan, Chief ADI Examiner with the Road Safety Authority

    This is part of the reply I received from him.

    Thank you for your email of 5th August 2013 which I have read and noted.

    Can I begin by clarifying the legal position relating to your query that overtaking is permitted on the right hand side only, with a few exceptions that you allude to such as slow moving traffic. Slow moving traffic in this case is traffic that is moving slowly (almost stop / starting) whist queued in slow moving traffic.


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