Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

redbaron_99 · 10-04-2014 01:00PM

xtal191 wrote: »

Come on man thats never going to happend. Its not football manager, we'd be lucky to sign one of those players.

Well, you're never going to know if we can get them or not unless we put in bids big enough to force their clubs into a difficult decision. other clubs do it!

Backstreet Moyes · 10-04-2014 01:01PM

astonaidan wrote: »

Someone should tell Totti playing for your boyhood team means nothing and he should pack bags for somewhere else :rolleyes:

Where did i say playing for his boyhood team means nothing.
Where did i say he should pack his bags and move elsewhere.
Just because Totti didn't leave don't mean Reus won't leave.
You should learn to read before responding.

J. Marston · 10-04-2014 01:03PM

sea_monkey wrote: »

That 2nd gif

He's earned his £300,000 this week...

Backstreet Moyes · 10-04-2014 01:04PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Well, you're never going to know if we can get them or not unless we put in bids big enough to force their clubs into a difficult decision. other clubs do it!

We will also never know if we put in bids unless we sign the players. Signing all those players is never going to happen. Signing Coleman would be pointless he is not much of an upgrade on Rafael and would cost a fortune. Money should be spent where it is needed.

Pro. F · 10-04-2014 01:11PM

Is this game going to be held up as proof that Kagawa can play from wide when the question comes up again? Because it shouldn't be. He defended well in front of Evra but he didn't have the legs to be enough of a threat when we were breaking forward.

Kagawa and Mata are both great players, but the two of them playing in the same team is still set to be a compromise.

redbaron_99 · 10-04-2014 01:14PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

We will also never know if we put in bids unless we sign the players. Signing all those players is never going to happen. Signing Coleman would be pointless he is not much of an upgrade on Rafael and would cost a fortune. Money should be spent where it is needed.

Im not saying you get all of those players. put bids in for top players. you're bound to get a few if the money is right.

And coleman is a huge improvement on rafeal. The lad is no use to us at all half the time because he is constantly injured. Made of glass. Unreliable.

Mitch Connor · 10-04-2014 01:15PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Is this game going to be held up as proof that Kagawa can play from wide when the question comes up again? Because it shouldn't be. He defended well in front of Evra but he didn't have the legs to be enough of a threat when we were breaking forward.

Kagawa and Mata are both great players, but the two of them playing in the same team is still set to be a compromise.

Agree - if RVP and Rooney are both starting.

If one is gone, I would play (and have no issue with) Kagawa and Mata playing with a more conventional winger, behind the striker.

I thought the play between Mata and Kagawa at the weekend was very interesting and promising.

lordgoat · 10-04-2014 01:19PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Agree - if RVP and Rooney are both starting.

If one is gone, I would play (and have no issue with) Kagawa and Mata playing with a more conventional winger, behind the striker.

I thought the play between Mata and Kagawa at the weekend was very interesting and promising.

I'd like to see RVP up top, with Kagawa behind and Rooney and Mata left and right. With two new CM that are able to win the ball and release them. Lahm and Kroos for example....

MagicIRL · 10-04-2014 01:19PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Agree - if RVP and Rooney are both starting.

If one is gone, I would play (and have no issue with) Kagawa and Mata playing with a more conventional winger, behind the striker.

I thought the play between Mata and Kagawa at the weekend was very interesting and promising.

Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj could be brilliant attacking options IF Shinji and Adnan got back to defend when needed. I imagine this would be offset with capable LB/RB players not bombing on as much.

A very possible United for 14/15 with only two new singings could be:

De Gea
Rafael - Jones - Evans - New LB
Carvalho - Fellaini
Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa
Rooney

Vic Vinegar · 10-04-2014 01:25PM

WTF, we don't have a game this weekend.

Boring.

TheDoc · 10-04-2014 01:25PM

A big problem I see for Moyes is that based on his current reign, it paints a perception that he will be unable to make things better and bring the club back competing.

It's a stupid assumption and prediction to make, based on absolute garbage since no one can predict what can happen in the future, and there is a mountain of cases where a manager or player got off to a sluggish start, to turn it all around.

But it's a lazy assumption that unfortunately sticks, and it will be difficult for him to shake. With nothing left to play for this year, he's only hope is to maintain high levels of performance from Mata and Kagawa, who have injected a real sense of " oooohhhh ahhhh" in the last few domestic matches.

Finishing the season strongly with good results, strong fluid performances is his only hope to regain some faith in him for the season ahead.

Kagawa btw, is doing himself the WORLD of good by finally grabbing his chances by the scruff of the neck. Demanding the ball, being efficent in possesion and some good form will give Moyes alot to think aobut, at how it might have been if he was included earlier in the season.

Hopefully Kagawa can maintain form for the rest of the season, as he really has been excellent. His ability was never in doubt, the question has been about imposing himself on the game, playing wide or 10 doesn't matter.

If that partnership betwen him and Mata continues as Mata suggests, it could be a really positive thing to build off and could force the hand a little to play a 4-2-3-1 in a conventional sense.

Valencia last night was impressive, is it enough to buy him more time, I'm not sure, tbh I'm not sure his place was ever in REAL jeapordy but he needs to be more powerful going forward and create more chances. Someone like Reus would walk into that team ahead of Valencia, while he might be the best option on the right, there is PLENTY of people that could come in and do a better job then him.

Carrick was a mess again, his "subtle" work is completely over rawded by his slack passing in possesion and lack of incision. Gave the ball away a fair bit from memory, that were simple passes.

Fletcher, I don't know. I never rated him as a marvellous player, I thought he just added some grit and fight that was welcome during some big games. The two of them together while offering a decent shield to the back 4, provided nothing when in possesion.

Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra are the obvious candidates for those on the way out. Anderson I'd say will permenatly go. There is talk of Nani wanting away, I think Ashley Young will most likely leave, but Carrick has become increasingly in danger over the course of the last while.

There is only ever going to be two CM starting positions, and at most you'd maybe want 4. Fellaini is hopefully going to kick on next season, Cleverly is decent backup, it looks like alot of "done deal" talk of this Carvalho fella and I imagine one more big name might arrive. Doesn't leave alot of room for Fletcher or Carrick to be honest.

Also evident again, hopefully noticed by those that viewed the game is Kroos again, absolutely calm as ****, spraying passes long and short, operating from a deep lieing position. Hopefully dispells any myth or doubt about where he plays or what he does. He receives the ball deep and springs an attack, and then moves into a reserved position to receive the ball and try again, when a prod out wide doesn't work.

Would be perfect in a two man midfield for a 4-2-3-1, alongside Fell or this Carvalho fella if I go by whats been posted here. The missing link we have is someone who can receive the ball deep, and then create a platform for an attack. Kroos positioning and intellegence is staggering, he is ALWAYS free to take a pass and nearly ALWAYS makes a succesfull pass, forward, wide, wherever.

Mitch Connor · 10-04-2014 01:26PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj could be brilliant attacking options IF Shinji and Adnan got back to defend when needed. I imagine this would be offset with capable LB/RB players not bombing on as much.

A very possible United for 14/15 with only two new singings could be:
De Gea
Rafael - Jones - Evans - New LB
Carvalho - Fellaini
Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa
Rooney

that is the type of lineup i'd be thinking of - and in fairness I do think we could be seeing a similar scenario with RVP as we saw with RVN.

RVP is a great player - but the balance and new style for United could be better served with him being moved on, and a new attack being built without him - same as RVN was moved on to allow Rooney, Ronaldo and Saha to inject more pace into the side.

I would actually look to move Rooney on instead of RVP, personally, but Rooney isn't going anywhere - the guy who gave out to Welbeck for a fine pass the Rooney fluffed, is going to be our captain.

Pro. F · 10-04-2014 01:27PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Agree - if RVP and Rooney are both starting.

If one is gone, I would play (and have no issue with) Kagawa and Mata playing with a more conventional winger, behind the striker.

I thought the play between Mata and Kagawa at the weekend was very interesting and promising.

I enjoyed watching the two of them link up at the weekend, but it was only end-of-season Newcastle so it doesn't make me very hopeful. Great players playing in a compromised formation will definitely do well in some games. The compromise will be more of an issue in the big games.

lordgoat wrote: »

I'd like to see RVP up top, with Kagawa behind and Rooney and Mata left and right. With two new CM that are able to win the ball and release them. Lahm and Kroos for example....

I don't think there's any chance Rooney would ever agree to playing on the wing again.

keane2097 · 10-04-2014 01:29PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree with the argument for keeping Januzaj as a squad player for a while, rather than planning on him being a fist teamer. But this skeptical view that you and Liam O have taken of him is way over the top.

There is no chance that what Liam said - "Some good attributes but not much more at this stage" - is a correct description of Januzaj this season. He has shown himself to be an exceptional talent for his age, nothing less.

He has had 14 starts and 12 subs this year and has done well. Giving him the same again (or a bit more if he really kicks on) next season would make sense. Taking him out of the limelight, which presumably means giving him fewer games, would achieve nothing.

Outside of the "for his age" he's literally been poor most of the times I've seen him play. Plainly talented, very exciting, has great attributes etc. but his actual contribution to the team in almost all the games I've seen has been low.

He's nowhere near good enough to be a starting attacker in a team that reckons it should be challenging for domestic and European silverware, not even close. Not to say he won't have one of these leaps players sometimes have in the next few months, but on this season's evidence he should be a squad player for United next season with a view to him earning a place in the team by gradually realising his potential.

TheDoc · 10-04-2014 01:30PM

lordgoat wrote: »

I'd like to see RVP up top, with Kagawa behind and Rooney and Mata left and right. With two new CM that are able to win the ball and release them. Lahm and Kroos for example....

Love this thought process.

I think too many people focus on a rigid structure, which to be fair is what has had us fall behind in the last five years at European level.

While alot of the big teams have adopted this three attackers behind a striker, that all roam, rotate and interchange at will, we still hav ethis mindset of " Someone plays left, someone plays right"

When you have a quality front four, the aim is to have them rotate and move in a way that drags defenders out of position and creates gaps for the intricute passing. Obviously yes some width when possible and when defending there needs to be someone covering the flanks to avoid a 2v1 on the fullback, but it doesn't HAVE to be a rigid structure. I noticed last night alot of interchange between Kagawa and Wellbeck, and that is what you want. Keep defenders moving, pulled out of position and facing different challenges and types of player during the game.

I think Kagawa, Mata, Rooney and RVP can co-exist in the one team, but it requires playing a three behind RVP. And it also relegates Rooney into what I think is a weaker position

TheTownie · 10-04-2014 01:33PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

that is the type of lineup i'd be thinking of - and in fairness I do think we could be seeing a similar scenario with RVP as we saw with RVN.

RVP is a great player - but the balance and new style for United could be better served with him being moved on, and a new attack being built without him - same as RVN was moved on to allow Rooney, Ronaldo and Saha to inject more pace into the side.

I would actually look to move Rooney on instead of RVP, personally, but Rooney isn't going anywhere - the guy who gave out to Welbeck for a fine pass the Rooney fluffed, is going to be our captain.

Agreed. I certainly don't think Fergie was always right but I think he was on the ball with regards Rooney and moving him on.

Mitch Connor · 10-04-2014 01:34PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Love this thought process.

I think too many people focus on a rigid structure, which to be fair is what has had us fall behind in the last five years at European level.

While alot of the big teams have adopted this three attackers behind a striker, that all roam, rotate and interchange at will, we still hav ethis mindset of " Someone plays left, someone plays right"

When you have a quality front four, the aim is to have them rotate and move in a way that drags defenders out of position and creates gaps for the intricute passing. Obviously yes some width when possible and when defending there needs to be someone covering the flanks to avoid a 2v1 on the fullback, but it doesn't HAVE to be a rigid structure. I noticed last night alot of interchange between Kagawa and Wellbeck, and that is what you want. Keep defenders moving, pulled out of position and facing different challenges and types of player during the game.

I think Kagawa, Mata, Rooney and RVP can co-exist in the one team, but it requires playing a three behind RVP. And it also relegates Rooney into what I think is a weaker position

It is all well and good having a floating trio with no defined role when you have the ball, but unless you are dominant and pin the opposition back, you need someone to track the full backs - so in a defensive sense you do need to look at people playing on the left and right.

I would also say that most fans on here are past the side restrictions in the attacking play - we are more than comfortable with the idea of a player playing from the left or right - moving infield and floating to space when we have the ball; it is what we want to see Mata and Kagawa doing.

For what it is worth, I would still be surprised if Kagawa is a United player next season; I think we will sell him - and if RVP was fit for the next game Kagawa would be dropped immediately for him.

keane2097 · 10-04-2014 01:34PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Is this game going to be held up as proof that Kagawa can play from wide when the question comes up again? Because it shouldn't be. He defended well in front of Evra but he didn't have the legs to be enough of a threat when we were breaking forward.

Kagawa and Mata are both great players, but the two of them playing in the same team is still set to be a compromise.

I'm starting to think you just have a blind spot when it comes to Kagawa or are expecting him to be some other type of player than he is and failing to notice his contributions.

He was - by a mile - United's best player last night, as he has been every time he's played with Rooney not being at 10 this year.

Mickalus · 10-04-2014 01:36PM

Here's how I would set the team up.

De Gea

Rafael - Jones - Evans - Buttner

Carrick

Valencia

Januzaj/Young

Mata - Kagawa

Rooney

Mata and Kagawa with alternating responsibility for dropping deeper into help Carrick; Valencia and Januzaj playing narrow when defending, and giving width on the attack.

Offers fluidity and plenty of options going forward, Weakest in the center of midfield.

Vic Vinegar · 10-04-2014 01:40PM

Mickalus wrote: »

Here's how I would set the team up.
De Gea
Rafael - Jones - Evans - Buttner
Carrick
Valencia
Januzaj/Young
Mata - Kagawa
Rooney

Mata and Kagawa with alternating responsibility for dropping deeper into help Carrick; Valencia and Januzaj playing narrow when defending, and giving width on the attack.

Offers fluidity and plenty of options going forward, Weakest in the center of midfield.

I dunno, make the part we're weak in even weaker... seems like a bad move to me.

Backstreet Moyes · 10-04-2014 01:41PM

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm starting to think you just have a blind spot when it comes to Kagawa or are expecting him to be some other type of player than he is and failing to notice his contributions.

He was - by a mile - United's best player last night, as he has been every time he's played with Rooney not being at 10 this year.

I have to agree he has our standout player last night. He was the only player who looked composed on the ball and didn't rush passes. He has got a run of a few games and really showed his quality. We should be building around him and Mata.

Pro. F · 10-04-2014 01:42PM

TheDoc wrote: »

A big problem I see for Moyes is that based on his current reign, it paints a perception that he will be unable to make things better and bring the club back competing.

It's a stupid assumption and prediction to make, based on absolute garbage since no one can predict what can happen in the future, and there is a mountain of as cases where a manager or player got off to a sluggish start, to turn it all around. er.

You have some cheek throwing around the word "stupid" when you are using the impossibility of knowing the future as justification for keeping a manager in his job.

astonaidan · 10-04-2014 01:44PM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

There's any amount of examples of boyhood fans moving to other clubs too.

Yes, but why leave a club he supports and who he turned down Bayern for to go to a United team in the middle of rebuilding and dont look like winning the league in the same term as Dortmund not

Nuts102 wrote: »

Where did i say playing for his boyhood team means nothing.
Where did i say he should pack his bags and move elsewhere.
Just because Totti didn't leave don't mean Reus won't leave.
You should learn to read before responding.

You said hes not going to be winning the league with Dortmund any time soon, that was your main reason why he would leave.
That logic is flawed, you think it means more to Gerrard if he wins the league this year with Liverpool than it would have with Chelsea.
I can read very well thank you

Mickalus · 10-04-2014 01:54PM

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

I dunno, make the part we're weak in even weaker... seems like a bad move to me.

True, it's an obvious weak point. You'd definitely need the others to come in narrow when on the defensive, with Mata / Kagawa dropping deep to add numbers.
But... it offers plenty of fluidity going forward and gets Mata and Kagawa playing centrally. They could do some damage together in there.

Pro. F · 10-04-2014 01:54PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Outside of the "for his age" he's literally been poor most of the times I've seen him play. Plainly talented, very exciting, has great attributes etc. but his actual contribution to the team in almost all the games I've seen has been low.

He's nowhere near good enough to be a starting attacker in a team that reckons it should be challenging for domestic and European silverware, not even close. Not to say he won't have one of these leaps players sometimes have in the next few months, but on this season's evidence he should be a squad player for United next season with a view to him earning a place in the team by gradually realising his potential.

As I said, I agree he should be kept as a squad player. No need to give him fewer games though.

I don't know how many times you have seen him play but I don't agree that he has been poor in any more than a few of his games. When you consider the sh!te team he has been playing in, his overall contribution has been good, regardless of his age.

10-04-2014 01:55PM

astonaidan wrote: »

Yes, but why leave a club he supports and who he turned down Bayern for to go to a United team in the middle of rebuilding and dont look like winning the league in the same term as Dortmund not

You said hes not going to be winning the league with Dortmund any time soon, that was your main reason why he would leave.
That logic is flawed, you think it means more to Gerrard if he wins the league this year with Liverpool than it would have with Chelsea.
I can read very well thank you

United have a good chance of winning the league as early as next season. Bayern are there for the foreseeable future and just won the league in record time. I wouldn't move with Dortmund in the CL but this season is an anomaly for United, home games against the likes of West Brom and Newcastle costing the team a title challenge.

Macca07 · 10-04-2014 01:58PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Well la dee da Mr. I-Couldn't-Possibly-Live-On-Around-4k-A-Year, it must be all caviar and Dom Pérignon for each meal at the Macca household!

But uhh... yeah, maybe temporary retirement. Go back to college, start a business, something awesome like that.

Responses like this is the reason why I stopped looking at this forum for a while.

bangkok · 10-04-2014 02:01PM

just seen last night that messi only ran 1 mile more than the barca goalkeeper!!!

10-04-2014 02:02PM

Macca07 wrote: »

Responses like this is the reason why I stopped looking at this forum for a while.

Because you don't understand sarcasm? The internet must be a dreary place in general for you so...

Macca07 · 10-04-2014 02:05PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Moyes' big problem is that he should have done the big clearout last summer. If he'd done that there would have been enough understanding and perhaps goodwill for him to ride out a terrible first season.

Very hard to do a big clearout in your first season. AVB tried, failed and got sacked at Chelsea. If we had got rid of Rio, Vidic, Evra, Carrick last summer, and we are exactly where we are now, the fans would be slating him for getting rid of our most experienced players.

Evra's replacement should've been got in the summer, and it was nearly done with Contraeo, but Madrid pulled the plug. Fellaini, I think, was signed as Carricks replacement, and we were looking for someone else (Herrera, Fab) which never happened.

As you said, he has to do the clearout now, and get into top 4 next season. Spurs proved this season that spending £100mil + isn't the answer with too many new players in the squad. We need a LB, CM and a CB. Could argue with needing another CM. Possibly a squad player RB (do we have anyone coming from the youths?).

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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