Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

irishfeen · 09-04-2014 10:40PM

Headshot wrote: »

This Christmas make or break for Moyes is so stupid. So he's out of the top 4 once again. He won't be fired at Christmas since it would be stupid to do so. There's no logical way of thinking give him till Christmas is a good idea

I think the pressure from the fans on the club to act would be deafening if this form were to continue - IMO they would have no choice but to get rid of him if qualification for the CL was at risk - the Glazers themselves would be very fearful themselves over the possibility of missing out the CL revenue a second year round.

redalan · 09-04-2014 10:42PM

This was Moyes' biggest match as a manager in terms of experience. Shocking that he was given the job.

Junior D · 09-04-2014 10:42PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Moyes' big problem is that he should have done the big clearout last summer. If he'd done that there would have been enough understanding and perhaps goodwill for him to ride out a terrible first season.

Not exactly comparable situations, but Rodgers finished 7th in his first season (although an improvement on the previous season) with Liverpool, but he got rid of Kuyt, Bellamy, Maxi, Aurelio and Carroll. He brought in some younger players and worked on bringing in a new style of play.

Moyes has simply ambled through this season without a plan and suddenly now he arrives at this summer with a massive rebuild still to do. Problem is there is no goodwill left. He has to finish top 4 next season while a raft of new players bed in.

City and Chelsea will be top 4 again.
Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Tottenham and United could all finish in the other two spots. Moyes is in a tricky situation to say the least.

AVB tried a change-around at Chelsea similar to what you have mentioned above and look how that panned out. While in theory in might sound good, it's a different matter practically.

irishfeen · 09-04-2014 10:43PM

sigmundv wrote: »

I must be the only one, but I'm still clinging on to the hope of 4th spot. Admitted, we need to win all the remaining matches, and Everton and Arsenal need to drop some points (even Tottenham needs to drop 2), but fourth is reachable!

I am too but just too embarrassed to say it

IMO win the next 5 and we could go very close but I am usually a bit optimistic.

RichFTW · 09-04-2014 10:45PM

Headshot wrote: »

This Christmas make or break for Moyes is so stupid. So he's out of the top 4 once again. He won't be fired at Christmas since it would be stupid to do so. There's no logical way of thinking give him till Christmas is a good idea

Christmas gives him enough time to show an improvement following the summer signings. It also gives the caretaker manager (maybe Giggs/Neville's with mentoring from Fergie) to turn things around.

bassy · 09-04-2014 10:45PM

Look lads let's support moyes it's his 1st season at a massive club and it's not sumthing he's use to,but we need to standby him till at least next season.
The man I wanted wasnt chosen aka mourhino,so we have to move on.
But look at Jose now ehh 2 games away from another champions lge final,and I was correct I predicted that Chelsea would get the furthest in the champions lge this season of all the English clubs.

Bayern wouldn't have it all there way if the meet Chelsea

Jose loves big games

I'm gonna call a Chelsea v R Madrid final

The_Kew_Tour · 09-04-2014 10:46PM

jaykay74 wrote: »

David Moyes is a loser with a loser mentality (against top class opposition...). I'm not talking about tonight just generally. He has been a manager for a long time, played against a lot of big teams. Almost always comes up short. Whats the outstanding win this season Arsenal 1-0 at home ? Is that the sum total of "big" results. Maybe its a blip though. Name the "big" results in his 10+ years as Everton manager.

I think it a bit harsh on loser thing, but I can see your point.

The difference between Moyes tonight and Fergie on bad European nights is striking.

Moyes is in the happy and "we have improved" crap
Fergie would have been raging.

irishfeen · 09-04-2014 10:47PM

bassy wrote: »

Look lads let's support moyes it's his 1st season at a massive club and it's not sumthing he's use to,but we need to standby him till at least next season.
The man I wanted wasnt chosen aka mourhino,so we have to move on.
But look at Jose now ehh 2 games away from another champions lge final,and I was correct I predicted that Chelsea would get the furthest in the champions lge this season of all the English clubs.

Bayern wouldn't have it all there way if the meet Chelsea Jose loves big games
I'm gonna call a Chelsea v R Madrid final

Bayern v Madrid final for me - UEFA will probably make sure of an interesting final in Fridays draw

redbaron_99 · 09-04-2014 10:48PM

I am willing to give Moyes time. Will he get it right? Who knows. I dont know. No one knows. That's the trick with reality, you can't tell what's gonna happen in the future. And contrary to what some posters claim, you can't gaze into alternate universes.

I'd like to see what he can do with a handful of top additions to the team. If we're still struggling mid-September, my mind will change very quickly.

But if we do get rid of him in the summer. the next manager is gonna have to revamp the team. Been saying it for three years that not replacing certain players would catch up on us. There's no magic bullet in the form of a manager.
Team isn't good enough right now.

Headshot · 09-04-2014 10:48PM

irishfeen wrote: »

I think the pressure from the fans on the club to act would be deafening if this form were to continue - IMO they would have no choice but to get rid of him if qualification for the CL was at risk - the Glazers themselves would be very fearful themselves over the possibility of missing out the CL revenue a second year round.

You honesty think the glaziers care about any thing the fans think? The protest of them owning the club when they came first worked out well and green and gold was a huge success. CL qualification will be over before Christmas again and Moyes will be fired at the end of next season.. Far to late to save the season

The_Kew_Tour · 09-04-2014 10:49PM

Im officially a ABC(Anyone But Chelsea:P) in CL now.

Backstreet Moyes · 09-04-2014 10:50PM

jaykay74 wrote: »

David Moyes is a loser with a loser mentality (against top class opposition...). I'm not talking about tonight just generally. He has been a manager for a long time, played against a lot of big teams. Almost always comes up short. Whats the outstanding win this season Arsenal 1-0 at home ? Is that the sum total of "big" results. Maybe its a blip though. Name the "big" results in his 10+ years as Everton manager.

I remember him doing a number on us a few times. The 4-4 draw with Fellaini demolishing us still haunts me basically lost us the title. But ye he needs to realise he is managing United and not Everton he should aim to win every game.

The_Kew_Tour · 09-04-2014 10:51PM

Headshot wrote: »

You honesty think the glaziers care about any thing the fans think? The protest of them owning the club when they came first worked out well and green and gold was a huge success. CL qualification will be over before Christmas again and Moyes will be fired at the end of next season.. Far to late to save the season

I have to say I agree with most of that.

But, like it or lump it, he is staying put if what we see and hear is to go by.

irishfeen · 09-04-2014 10:51PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think it a bit harsh on loser thing, but I can see your point.

The difference between Moyes tonight and Fergie on bad European nights is striking.

Moyes is in the happy and "we have improved" crap
Fergie would have been raging.

Yeah but we have to remember we were playing the best team in Europe (and actually played OK and did not get embarrassed like everyone predicted) and we actually made it to the CL Quarter Finals - for his first season in the CL you would have to conclude IMO that he went as far as SAF would have taken us.

irishfeen · 09-04-2014 10:52PM

Headshot wrote: »

You honesty think the glaziers care about any thing the fans think? The protest of them owning the club when they came first worked out well and green and gold was a huge success. CL qualification will be over before Christmas again and Moyes will be fired at the end of next season.. Far to late to save the season

We'll just have to wait and see what happens!

Quandary · 09-04-2014 10:53PM

You always get the impression that Moyes is just glad to be part of it all. Right now, he doesn't have the lust and hunger for winning that Fergie did, or if he does then he does a really poor job of showing that passion.

I also think Moyes will be here come September regardless of how we finish in the league now. My biggest fear is who he will ship out in the Summer? If Kagawa and Nani go while we keep the likes of Cleverley and Young it will be bitterly disappointing.

Lord TSC · 09-04-2014 10:54PM

Headshot wrote: »

This Christmas make or break for Moyes is so stupid. So he's out of the top 4 once again. He won't be fired at Christmas since it would be stupid to do so. There's no logical way of thinking give him till Christmas is a good idea

Its just an excuse, in hope that kicking it down the road will result in everything magically coming good. But the reality is we'll get to Xmas and there'll be even more excuses. The prime one being "No one will come mid-season". But the hope is saying "Give him till Xmas" will result in not having to actually defend him and that others will say "fine, whatever" and give up the debate.

The reality is if the idea that Moyes isn't good enough over 12 months but might be over 18 is in your end, it means you're able to acknowledge he's failing so far. And time =/= automatic improvement. Why do people think 12 months with 2 windows has resulted in a really poor performance, but 18 months and a third window will turn everything round?

irishfeen · 09-04-2014 10:54PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im officially a ABC(Anyone But Chelsea:P) in CL now.

I had to deal with a p.rick of a Chelsea fan brother roaring s.hite into my ear the last two night

- certainly ABC here too.

sigmundv · 09-04-2014 10:54PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im officially a ABC(Anyone But Chelsea:P) in CL now.

Same here. ABC in Champions League and ABL in Premier League.

09-04-2014 10:54PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im officially a ABC(Anyone But Chelsea:P) in CL now.

Either of the Madrids for me, always disliked Real and liked Atletico but would like Ronaldo to win another one. Don't like Diego Costa nearly as much as Torres, Aguero, Forlan and Falcao in their Atleti days and always disliked Simeone as a player so starting to creep away from my former admiration of Atletico.

user2011 · 09-04-2014 10:56PM

Kew, I'll just thank your posts you sum up my feelings on things.

He isn't going any where soon enough

just accept things hope(:pac:) he may turn things around with the new players to come in, what could be said plus or negative has been said there ain't no point going over it again.

The_Kew_Tour · 09-04-2014 10:57PM

irishfeen wrote: »

Yeah but we have to remember we were playing the best team in Europe (and actually played OK and did not get embarrassed like everyone predicted) and we actually made it to the CL Quarter Finals - for his first season in the CL you would have to conclude IMO that he went as far as SAF would have taken us.

Personally I hate second best.

I want to be best in Europe. I want us be best in England.
I appreciate the good times and have said before how lucky we have been over past couple of decades, but that does not mean we should except 2nd best. Its never been in the clubs nature to except that.

Getting beat tonight hurts as much as getting beat to Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Stoke etc.

TheDoc · 09-04-2014 11:00PM

Well that post match press conference gave some encouragement. Quiet words being had with transfer targets already, indicating no issues with coming to the club.

Nevermind the spiel, more interested to get some confirmation we are already organising things for the summer.

Lord TSC · 09-04-2014 11:01PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Well that post match press conference gave some encouragement. Quiet words being had with transfer targets already, indicating no issues with coming to the club.

"please please play for me? A go on! Pleeeeeease?"

Headshot · 09-04-2014 11:02PM

Osman in pole position to sign for utd

user2011 · 09-04-2014 11:03PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Its just an excuse, in hope that kicking it down the road will result in everything magically coming good. But the reality is we'll get to Xmas and there'll be even more excuses. The prime one being "No one will come mid-season". But the hope is saying "Give him till Xmas" will result in not having to actually defend him and that others will say "fine, whatever" and give up the debate.

The reality is if the idea that Moyes isn't good enough over 12 months but might be over 18 is in your end, it means you're able to acknowledge he's failing so far. And time =/= automatic improvement. Why do people think 12 months with 2 windows has resulted in a really poor performance, but 18 months and a third window will turn everything round?

There can be no other excuses tbh TSC. He gets the players he wants 4/5 he has to get them playing.

I'm in the Moyes out side of things but I can accept the other side of the argument too, but if he gets "his players in" there is nothing else that can be said to excuse what a poor manager he has been come Oct/Nov/Dec.

I'd give hi until the start of November if things aren't looking like changing and not just the top 4, playing wise I'll be calling for head even more.

The_Kew_Tour · 09-04-2014 11:03PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Well that post match press conference gave some encouragement. Quiet words being had with transfer targets already, indicating no issues with coming to the club.

Nevermind the spiel, more interested to get some confirmation we are already organising things for the summer.

Just hope its not spoof. Cause if it is I will get the Hammer to drive the nail home.

redalan · 09-04-2014 11:04PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Personally I hate second best.

I want to be best in Europe. I want us be best in England.
I appreciate the good times and have said before how lucky we have been over past couple of decades, but that does not mean we should except 2nd best. Its never been in the clubs nature to except that.

Getting beat tonight hurts as much as getting beat to Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Stoke etc.

Well said.
It is especially galling when the team won the league last year.
There is a belief that the teams needs and overhaul. It doesnt't in my opinion. It needs improvements but not a complete change.
Moyes just seems so apologetic about being the manager of United.
Funnily enough, if he used 'believe' every time he used 'hope', he would present a better image.
Talk of giving him till Chrustmas is self-defeating. Why wait till then?

Lord TSC · 09-04-2014 11:09PM

user2011 wrote: »

There can be no other excuses tbh TSC. He gets the players he wants 4/5 he has to get them playing.

I'm in the Moyes out side of things but I can accept the other side of the argument too, but if he gets "his players in" there is nothing else that can be said to excuse what a poor manager he has been come Oct/Nov/Dec.

I'd give hi until the start of November if things aren't looking like changing and not just the top 4, playing wise I'll be calling for head even more.

If we give him even a day of next season, he will be there all year and the season will be a write off, sacked or not. No top manager will change clubs mid-season, so at best, he stays another season, at worst, we have a new manager in Giggs who has never managed before.

If the talk is to make a change, it needs, for the good of the club, to be sooner rather than later, so a new manager can come in, make the changes he wants and have the full season to actually prove himself, just like Moyes has had.

sigmundv · 09-04-2014 11:11PM

I'm getting a bit annoyed with Moyes' use of the word 'try'. There is no need to say "we'll go out and try to win the match"; it's enough to say "we'll go out to win the match", because that's what all teams do. It's a minor thing, because it doesn't really matter what he says in the press as long as he says the right things to the players, but he is giving people more sticks than necessary to beat him with.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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