Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Pro. F · 08-04-2014 10:32AM

kippy wrote: »

Look, you've got to realise that Man United are a business and you are a customer.
That's how it is nowadays.

If you want to enjoy things - do them yourself. Getting enjoyment out of the fortunes of a multi billion dollar corporation is silly.

The thing that amazes me at this point in my life is grown adults who take "supporting" a club so seriously.

kippy wrote: »

Maybe I'm being overly harsh.
But I've lost all love/interest/enjoyment for the past few years in supporting a business like United.

I laugh anymore when I see grown men try wind each other up because the club one of them supports happens to be doing better than the club another supports. As if the business you support somehow defines you.

Leaving this conversation now as I see it as pointless at this stage.

You came on to this thread and argued that keeping Moyes in the job would be the best choice for Manchester United. Whether or not you support United, and what you think of us for supporting United, is irrelevant to the argument you put forward.

redbaron_99 · 08-04-2014 10:34AM

When faced with a crisis, the weaker individuals tend to crack very quickly and then start to panic, often turning on those around them, especially those who are trying to keep their calm. They also blow the crisis out of all proportion, and tend to make the situation worse.

08-04-2014 10:36AM

beno619 wrote: »

Cry me a river. Its a shame because the likes of Adnan,Shinji and Mata have brought a bit of joy to a sad season.

If you dont care that our on field success is dwindling then what are you supporting if not the business ?

Nonsense, have a look at the bottom of the table and those clubs fighting for relegation. What are there supporters supporting?
There love for the club regardless if they go down or not.
Self entitled, this season has brought the worst out of some of supposed Man Utd fans, 'ah sure **** it were expected to win year in year out if not we are a total failure'
That's for the board to decide as it's there business, unless you hold shares in the club then get behind Man Utd through the bad times, I'm glad we are having a bad spell it shows who the real fans are, the guys screaming there team on at the away games regardless of the ongoing situation.

Mitch Connor · 08-04-2014 10:43AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Nonsense, have a look at the bottom of the table and those clubs fighting for relegation. What are there supporters supporting?
There love for the club regardless if they go down or not.
Self entitled, this season has brought the worst out of some of supposed Man Utd fans, 'ah sure **** it were expected to win year in year out if not we are a total failure'
That's for the board to decide as it's there business, unless you hold shares in the club then get behind Man Utd through the bad times, I'm glad we are having a bad spell it shows who the real fans are, the guys screaming there team on at the away games regardless of the ongoing situation.

Just to clarify - I don't think there are many United fans, or maybe any, that are arguing this season is a total failure because we aren't going to win the title. That is disingenuous on your part.

This season is a total failure because we went meakly out of the two domestic cup competitions with terrible performance, and are languishing in 7th place following a season of terrible performances and poor football.

If you took a look at this thread at the start of the summer you would have seen people say the expectation was a CL place and being on the fringes of the title fight would have been great - with winning the title an absolute dream. To suggest we are throwing our toys out of the pram simply because we aren't going to win the title and have some sense of entitlement to winning it, is a disgusting twisting of the facts.

Tom.D.BJJ · 08-04-2014 10:43AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm startled that people don't see the difference between Rodgers joining and revitalizing a struggling and deflated Liverpool with comparatively low expectations and Moyes joining a squad of players with nothing left to prove, reigning champions coming down off a high of a quarter of a century of unparalleled success under one of the greatest managers the game has seen.

I'm not taking anything away from Rodgers, he has done a spectacular job, but every time I see someone compare the two challenges my head comes into swift contact with the keyboard.

I hate to say this, but what Rodgers is in the process of doing is similar to what Fergie did at the start with Utd.

Whats Moyes is in the process of doing is what Souness did to Liverpool except over a shorter period

Maximus Alexander · 08-04-2014 10:43AM

beno619 wrote: »

Rodgers will most likely win the title with Liverpool.

Are you trying to say that Rodgers taking Liverpool to the top with less money and inferior players was a tougher job than Moyes keeping the Champions competitive ? Wow.

I didn't say that. I said it's a completely different job.

Pro. F · 08-04-2014 10:43AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Self entitled, this season has brought the worst out of some of supposed Man Utd fans, 'ah sure **** it were expected to win year in year out if not we are a total failure'
That's for the board to decide as it's there business, unless you hold shares in the club then get behind Man Utd through the bad times, I'm glad we are having a bad spell it shows who the real fans are, the guys screaming there team on at the away games regardless of the ongoing situation.

You are talking bollocks. Every single United fan on this thread has said that they could accept United not winning this season. The majority have said that they could accept United not winning for a few seasons.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:43AM

Cannot believe this thread today,so...

Moyes left Everton better of than Fergie left United.

Martinez's success is based on Moyes players like Lukaku and Barry (Doesnt count because their on loan, Moyes never signed players on loan so that a negative mark on Martinez right their ), Barkley and Coleman (Players Moyes couldnt get the best out of). McCarthy another Moyes player.

Everton beating top clubs, playing progressive football, players much happier under the new boss. lol if anyone things (Coleman is gonna come and play for negative Dave, Baines couldn't be tempted).

Now Brenden Rodgers had an easier low pressure job at the minnows Liverpool than Moyes.

David Moyes with. RVP, Rooney, Mata, Kagawa, Adnan, Carrick, Jones,Smalling, Rafa, DDG, Evans. Poor unmotivated after a decade of success. Sure Moyes didn't have 2 windows to address deficiencies in the squad that he highlighted himself but choose not to.

No manager could have done a better job than Moyes, he's meeting the expectations set out at the start of the season.

Lets face it it if United fans truly believe the ****e posted here today we are done as a top club.

Cookiemunster · 08-04-2014 10:46AM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

read my post again. early 2000s. and yes we were top four, but there was a serious fall off in quality for a few years there.
the situation at the moment is very different.
the stability that fergie offered is gone. its a time of change.

Lets assume the early 2000s is from 2000 to 2003. Thats the period when Utd won the league in 2000, 2001 and 2003.
In the Mid 2000s they challenged every year, never finished lower than third and won the FA Cup in 2004 and league cup in 2006.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:47AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Nonsense, have a look at the bottom of the table and those clubs fighting for relegation. What are there supporters supporting?
There love for the club regardless if they go down or not.
Self entitled, this season has brought the worst out of some of supposed Man Utd fans, 'ah sure **** it were expected to win year in year out if not we are a total failure'
That's for the board to decide as it's there business, unless you hold shares in the club then get behind Man Utd through the bad times, I'm glad we are having a bad spell it shows who the real fans are, the guys screaming there team on at the away games regardless of the ongoing situation.

When did I stop supporting the club ?

Im fairly the sure fans of bottom clubs are supporting their teams on field success. If they felt the manager was not getting the best from the team they would probably kick up a fuss.

The United fans burying their heads when every other football fan knows Moyes is out of his depth are damaging the club.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:50AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I didn't say that. I said it's a completely different job.

What does that bring to the conversation ? Of course their different jobs. Rodgers is far exceeding expectation and has been since January of last year. Moyes is a failure 9 months into an easier job.

bangkok · 08-04-2014 10:51AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Just to clarify - I don't think there are many United fans, or maybe any, that are arguing this season is a total failure because we aren't going to win the title. That is disingenuous on your part.

This season is a total failure because we went meakly out of the two domestic cup competitions with terrible performance, and are languishing in 7th place following a season of terrible performances and poor football.

If you took a look at this thread at the start of the summer you would have seen people say the expectation was a CL place and being on the fringes of the title fight would have been great - with winning the title an absolute dream. To suggest we are throwing our toys out of the pram simply because we aren't going to win the title and have some sense of entitlement to winning it, is a disgusting twisting of the facts.

you seem to forget that we drew with the current world champions and could have gone into the 2nd leg with a lead had welbeck finished the best chance of the game...

Mitch Connor · 08-04-2014 10:55AM

bangkok wrote: »

you seem to forget that we drew with the current world champions and could have gone into the 2nd leg with a lead had welbeck finished the best chance of the game...

It was a good result - but I'll want to see better results, with more football, over a longer period before I start to believe Moyes has turned it around.

I had thought that back in December - but a failure to bring in some key signings in January, followed by the terrible form in January/Feb has cautioned me against these small up turns - especially when within this 'upturn' we have the City and Liverpool 'performances' to look back on.

If I can't use an entire season to show why it is a failure of a season, you can't use ONE DRAW AT HOME to show it to be a success...

Pro. F · 08-04-2014 10:55AM

bangkok wrote: »

you seem to forget that we drew with the current world champions and could have gone into the 2nd leg with a lead had welbeck finished the best chance of the game...

Corner turned!

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:56AM

bangkok wrote: »

you seem to forget that we drew with the current world champions and could have gone into the 2nd leg with a lead had welbeck finished the best chance of the game...

Sure one performance makes up for a whole season ? lets see what happens in the second leg. Evra to start, United to go out.

Maximus Alexander · 08-04-2014 10:57AM

beno619 wrote: »

What does that bring to the conversation ? Of course their different jobs. Rodgers is far exceeding expectation and has been since January of last year. Moyes is a failure 9 months into an easier job.

What it 'brings to the table' is that it's utterly pointless to draw comparisons between the two. Doing so suggests that the person drawing the comparison is incapable of critical thinking.

bangkok · 08-04-2014 11:00AM

beno619 wrote: »

Sure one performance makes up for a whole season ? lets see what happens in the second leg. Evra to start, United to go out.

maybe they will go out maybe they will go through, who knows..everyone was expecting a 3-4 nil win for Bayern at OT and look what happened, now missing 3 important first team players, united coming off the back of a few good results tails up...who knows. and I would still start evra over buttner in Germany, experience will be key and he is still a class player on his day

Backstreet Moyes · 08-04-2014 11:06AM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Jones yes, Evans no. I do think that sort the midfield and LB should be the priority though.

How can you say that, Evans is a far more complete player than Jones at the moment. Jones has lots of potential and i hope he plays at cb for the rest of the season to keep improving. Smalling,Jones and Evans is not enough we need another cb especially as all three are injury prone.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 11:07AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

What it 'brings to the table' is that it's utterly pointless to draw comparisons between the two. Doing so suggests that the person drawing the comparison is incapable of critical thinking.

How about, Martinez, Pellegrini, Mourinho, Conte,Someone,Potechetto ?

Who can we compare him to ? let's be honest you just wanna give him a pass an hope things improve ..

bucketybuck · 08-04-2014 11:07AM

bangkok wrote: »

you seem to forget that we drew with the current world champions and could have gone into the 2nd leg with a lead had welbeck finished the best chance of the game...

If we lose the second leg does that make the whole season terrible again?

Have you ever considered that games do not happen in isolation?

Maximus Alexander · 08-04-2014 11:07AM

Nuts102 wrote: »

How can you say that, Evans is a far more complete player than Jones at the moment. Jones has lots of potential and i hope he plays at cb for the rest of the season to keep improving. Smalling,Jones and Evans is not enough we need another cb especially as all three are injury prone.

Aye, I think Evans is underrated. He is prone to the odd lapse which can be costly, but is generally a very solid CB.

Backstreet Moyes · 08-04-2014 11:08AM

bangkok wrote: »

maybe they will go out maybe they will go through, who knows..everyone was expecting a 3-4 nil win for Bayern at OT and look what happened, now missing 3 important first team players, united coming off the back of a few good results tails up...who knows. and I would still start evra over buttner in Germany, experience will be key and he is still a class player on his day

If Evra starts we haven't got a hope. His bombing forward and lazy backtracking means Robben will have a field day. Experience can't make up for laziness Buttner has to play it should be an easy decision.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 11:09AM

bangkok wrote: »

maybe they will go out maybe they will go through, who knows..everyone was expecting a 3-4 nil win for Bayern at OT and look what happened, now missing 3 important first team players, united coming off the back of a few good results tails up...who knows. and I would still start evra over buttner in Germany, experience will be key and he is still a class player on his day

Your original point was holding Bayern was some sort of success that gives moyes a pass..

Right you want Evra to play, Il be quoting you Thursday moring .

08-04-2014 11:10AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Just to clarify - I don't think there are many United fans, or maybe any, that are arguing this season is a total failure because we aren't going to win the title. That is disingenuous on your part.

This season is a total failure because we went meakly out of the two domestic cup competitions with terrible performance, and are languishing in 7th place following a season of terrible performances and poor football.

If you took a look at this thread at the start of the summer you would have seen people say the expectation was a CL place and being on the fringes of the title fight would have been great - with winning the title an absolute dream. To suggest we are throwing our toys out of the pram simply because we aren't going to win the title and have some sense of entitlement to winning it, is a disgusting twisting of the facts.

Buckle in its getting heated.....so hard to even respond to this
All your issues are solely with Moyes and what you believe he is doing to the club, somebody even posted yesterday that the man has 'destroyed the club'.

Yes the expectancy was there, I expected to at least finish in the top 4 because we are so used to success but it's not happened, people need to get over the fact that Moyes is not going anywhere soon and this is the situation the club is in. I also accept that it's going through a transitional period and even if things go tits up I will still be there supporting the team and watching / attending the matches.

If you all so opposed to the situation at hand them stop watching the games, stop attending the games and stand outside Old Trafford with a sign in your hand saying you want Moyes out. Fly a plane over Old Trafford.
that's just something I cannot provide.

beno619 wrote: »

When did I stop supporting the club ?

I'm fairly the sure fans of bottom clubs are supporting their teams on field success. If they felt the manager was not getting the best from the team they would probably kick up a fuss.

The United fans burying their heads when every other football fan knows Moyes is out of his depth are damaging the club.

State to me where I once said you were not supporting the club?
All supporters can kick up a fuss but it won't ever stop them going to the games.
I have seen grown men cry when a club gets relegated but you see them at the very first match of the next season.

Nobody is putting there heads in the sand either, Moyes has made plenty of mistakes and I have been critical for it. But nothing I can do is going to change what the next 12 months holds for the club. I am going to stay optimistic and hope he rectifies the situation with an excellent transfer window and gives us every opportunity to compete as we should next season. And I believe the board members know as a business that Man Utd need to be successful and they won't let this happen for long even if it doesn't happen to work out for Moyes.

Pro. F wrote: »

You are talking bollocks. Every single United fan on this thread has said that they could accept United not winning this season. The majority have said that they could accept United not winning for a few seasons.

LOL your like a broken record :pac:

Backstreet Moyes · 08-04-2014 11:11AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Aye, I think Evans is underrated. He is prone to the odd lapse which can be costly, but is generally a very solid CB.

I think his only real weakness is in the air which i think he has improved on the last season or two. He is short of world class but he is a very good cb who should be number 1 choice next season beside Jones or a new signing.

bangkok · 08-04-2014 11:14AM

beno619 wrote: »

Your original point was holding Bayern was some sort of success that gives moyes a pass..

Right you want Evra to play, Il be quoting you Thursday moring .

I don't get the buttner love, yes he was good in the first leg against Bayern, but so was the whole team, he came on for evra Saturday and his first cross he ballooned it 50 yards over the bar. evra is much more composed on the ball as well and better going forward

Maximus Alexander · 08-04-2014 11:15AM

beno619 wrote: »

How about, Martinez, Pellegrini, Mourinho, Conte,Someone,Potechetto ?

Who can we compare him to ? let's be honest you just wanna give him a pass an hope things improve ..

I don't want to give him a pass, what would be my motivation to do that? He's not my dad. I can just recognise a poor comparison when I see one.

Obviously there are managers out there who would have gotten more out of United this season that Moyes has, Rodgers' success at Liverpool doesn't automatically make him one of them though. He was exactly the right man for the Liverpool job, but that does not mean he would have been the right man for the United job.

jane82 · 08-04-2014 11:17AM

Look I understand people are getting annoyed because they are getting stick on a monday in work and it makes them angry. Its been said for years the worst job in the world is the fella who gets the job after Alex. The best job will be the fella after that.
United need the full backing of the fans. Moyes needs time to play the politics while he builds a team while clearing out lads who arnt putting in 100 per cent anymore. Whether it be diet or mentally.
Rodgers came in and played his way of football right from the off and the fans turned on him here too just like they turned on Dalgleish and Hodgeson.
He was the first Liverpool manager given time in that period.
The second team played some lovely stuff against Newcastle. The first team are motivated in the CL but not in the league. There is a sign there that shows some of them are being a bit picky choosy about when they want to play good.

Your Airbag · 08-04-2014 11:17AM

The only thing that can happen now to stop this being a very bad season for UTD is us winning the UCL. That is very unlikely.

The discontent with Moyes is natural but thats not to say Moyes can't turn it around and have a good second season next year and find the right formula that works for him at UTD.

Again we get the "squad is poor vs its a title winning squad" argument. We dropped so many points due to individual errors this season that its hard to ignore and personally I can't see how anyone could lay 100% of the blame at Moyes feet. Its obvious to me that some players were not playing well and some didn't seem to care.

I've also heard the "this is Moyes level, 7th is Moyes ceiling" argument. To say that Moyes can or could only ever get UTD to finish at Evertons level playing the same way but with better players is absurd. Its happened in this first difficult season but its transitional.

There is no reason why we can't be pleased with Moyes and in a better position this time next season.

Hococop · 08-04-2014 11:17AM

bangkok wrote: »

I don't get the buttner love, yes he was good in the first leg against Bayern, but so was the whole team, he came on for evra Saturday and his first cross he ballooned it 50 yards over the bar. evra is much more composed on the ball as well and better going forward

But his problem is getting back to defend which is his ****ing job but his idea of getting back is a light jog

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Comments