Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 08-04-2014 09:46AM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

@FCBayernEN: #Guardiola on his squad selection for #FCBMUFC: "We only have 14 first-team players so I haven't got too many options.

Making excuses already, wouldn't see Moyes doing that :pac:

And those 14 players could get into any other side in the world on their day ha ha my heart bleeds for him

kippy · 08-04-2014 09:46AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

exactly
what happened this cycle for the last 20 years??

That was the cycle...within that cycle there were years when nothing was won as well.

I think football fans just don't appreciate the fact that not everything will go their way all of the time.

kippy · 08-04-2014 09:47AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

Quote / post of the day surely...

Look lads,
Whats the big deal if United don't win a league for another 5 or 6 years?
Really?
Are you gonna stop supporting them?

Pro. F · 08-04-2014 09:48AM

kippy wrote: »

I just stated a fact. Doesn't necessarily reflect how I think but if you chose to infer that fair enough.

In the bolded part that I highlighted and responded to you were being sarcastic, not stating any fact.

Of course I am going to infer what you think from what you say.

kippy wrote: »

Fans in general aren't in a position to judge anything objectively. That much should be obvious.

That is just not true. It is possible to be objective about your own football team. Plenty of posters on here demonstrate objectivity when discussing their teams all the time.

Mitch Connor · 08-04-2014 09:50AM

kippy wrote: »

It is.
Anyone with any ounce of intelligence realises that.

So Madrid and Barca's relative dominance of La Liga for the last decade will end soon enough? Celtic are going to become midtable? Bayern will stop competing for the title in Germany soon? City and Chelsea will drop out of the top 4 for a prolonged period? United didn't compete every year for the last 20 years? Arsenal haven't been a top four side 16 years on the bounce?

Yeah, football is cyclical... thats why United are in 7th nowt they could have done about it, just their turn on the cycle.

BOLL1X.

Mitch Connor · 08-04-2014 09:53AM

kippy wrote: »

Look lads,
Whats the big deal if United don't win a league for another 5 or 6 years?
Really?
Are you gonna stop supporting them?

I don't have an issue with not winning - I have an issue with not competing at all - which is what we have seen in the PL this season.

A club with the resources of United should be competing, all the time. If they are not, it can ONLY be seen as failure, and failure should not simply be accepted as the norm.

kippy · 08-04-2014 09:56AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't have an issue with not winning - I have an issue with not competing at all - which is what we have seen in the PL this season.

A club with the resources of United should be competing, all the time. If they are not, it can ONLY be seen as failure, and failure should not simply be accepted as the norm.

I dont think you are being realistic at all.
Clubs have bad seasons - ferguson had a few himself.
So, sack moyes and all of a sudden things are good again?

redbaron_99 · 08-04-2014 09:58AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

exactly
what happened this cycle for the last 20 years??

You obviously weren't around in the early 2000s. That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

lordgoat · 08-04-2014 09:59AM

kippy wrote: »

It is.
Anyone with any ounce of intelligence realises that.

Remind of what cycle Leeds are going through or Notts Forrest or Wimbledon? Saying something is cyclical is very very easy.

What's more accurate to say is that the standard we set for the last 2 decades has dropped to an unacceptable level. Yes that might go back up or level off but to say it's some part of unstoppable cycle is completely incorrect.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Same - felt the choices for reserve team player were very weak this year.

Wouldnt think any of them are capable of making the step up to 1st team in any respect next season, and would be surprised if they ever do (though Janko has the tools)

Tom Thorpe would be the most complete player and best performer at that level for us, for my money. Maybe the loan excludes him though.

Seeing as Wilson is not in the list, I would assume he is a shoe-in for the youth player of the year. Pearson and Rothwell have had great seasons too though.

I think anyone on loan is excluded. Jesse and Thorpe would have been in with a shout. These 2 played consistently above the rest particularly earlier in the season when things we not too good. I actually like watching the u21's Joyce has them playing really nice crisp football and the team know what to do.

Wilson will stroll the youth player and I'd agree on Pearson and Rothwell, two of my favourite youth players, actually with Wilson they're probably my 3, all great on the ball and all can pass brilliantly and score goals.

Fell bad for Perreria as he's done well, really well at times but I think the team is set u p in a way that get's the best out of him, his movement creates great spaces for Wilson to drop into or the MF to get forward and attack, he drifts wide and links up with well with the wide players and full backs too.

kippy · 08-04-2014 10:00AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So Madrid and Barca's relative dominance of La Liga for the last decade will end soon enough? Celtic are going to become midtable? Bayern will stop competing for the title in Germany soon? City and Chelsea will drop out of the top 4 for a prolonged period? United didn't compete every year for the last 20 years? Arsenal haven't been a top four side 16 years on the bounce?

Yeah, football is cyclical... thats why United are in 7th nowt they could have done about it, just their turn on the cycle.

BOLL1X.

Yeah, football is cyclical.
Barca and madrid have swapped spells at the top for years - but ultimately they are both resourced so heavily in relation to other clubs in the league that they wont be too far from the top for long - same as united.
Same with Celtic and rangers, they have cycles between them of dominance but until recently they are so well financed in relation to the rest of the league any blip is literally that, a blip. (granted rangers issues of the past years changed that a bit so its celtics cycle at the moment)

I'm not going to bother explianing the rest to you, but yes, there are cycles of football, big cycles or small cycles between a few clubs.

Dominant clubs over time generally are far better finance than the rest of the leagues they compete in.

Blatter · 08-04-2014 10:00AM

kippy wrote: »

Or big clubs make knee jerk decisions based on short term performance.

9 months in football isn't considered as 'short term' as it once was. There's a lot more money involved in the game these days which has lead to increased pressure to perform and increased conpetetion.

I have seen more than enough to form the opinion that Moyes is out of his depth. If you think that's being knee jerk, that's up to you but all I can do is laugh at that suggestion.

Pro. F · 08-04-2014 10:03AM

kippy wrote: »

Look lads,
Whats the big deal if United don't win a league for another 5 or 6 years?
Really?
Are you gonna stop supporting them?

I would keep supporting the team. Not that I think that would be any special achievement on my part.

The big deal is that winning is more enjoyable than failing to win. The fact that you need that to be explained to you is mind boggling. This extraordinary season has brought up a few surreal moments so far. Your question is just another one I guess.

kippy · 08-04-2014 10:03AM

Blatter wrote: »

9 months in football isn't considered as 'short term' as it once was. There's a lot more money involved in the game these days which has lead to increased pressure to perform and increased conpetetion.

I have seen more than enough to form the opinion that Moyes is out of his depth. If you think that's being knee jerk, that's up to you but all I can do is laugh at that suggestion.

Yeah, I think that's knee jerk.
Why?
1. United aren't short of cash at the moment. They can afford a couple of seasons without major success.
2. 9 Months into 6 year term isn't enough to judge him on.
3. He's gonna have a bit to learn - that should be obvious.
4. History has shown that judging manangers on their first nine months is as daft as you can get.

MagicIRL · 08-04-2014 10:04AM

United are in 7th because neither Moyes nor Woodward hit the ground running. Both were well out of their depth altogether and it showed.

Moyes has started to steady the ship in recent weeks with convincing wins. He needs to start beating the 'top' teams come next season or he's gone.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:04AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Hey, I'm not claiming to be Mr. Positivity. Far from it.

But as I said yesterday, we're now at a stage where a lot of people are putting Xmas as their minimum time frame, and when that comes and if he's still struggling, there'll be excuses then too. "Team needs time to gel", "18 months isn't enough time", "Sure who's available to replace him?"

For me, true positivity will be restored the day Moyes goes and the club admit there was a mistake made. Because that will be the day I feel that we can actually get on and stop making excuse after excuse.

Lads lets be honest, the small club mentality has been accepted by the fans.

I think the damage has been done and we will be years away from winning another title and this will be accepted by the fans because were not City/Chelsea.

kippy · 08-04-2014 10:06AM

Pro. F wrote: »

I would keep supporting the team. Not that I think that would be any special achievement on my part.

The big deal is that winning is more enjoyable than failing to win. The fact that you need that to be explained to you is mind boggling. This extraordinary season has brought up a few surreal moments so far. Your question is just another one I guess.

Look, you've got to realise that Man United are a business and you are a customer.
That's how it is nowadays.

If you want to enjoy things - do them yourself. Getting enjoyment out of the fortunes of a multi billion dollar corporation is silly.

The thing that amazes me at this point in my life is grown adults who take "supporting" a club so seriously.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:07AM

kippy wrote: »

That was the cycle...within that cycle there were years when nothing was won as well.

I think football fans just don't appreciate the fact that not everything will go their way all of the time.

Small clubs do.

Your Airbag · 08-04-2014 10:07AM

Since the EPL began UTD have never finished outside the top three.

13 of 21 titles for United and 5 times runners up. For context in the same span in the Bundesliga, Bayern has 10 titles and 6 runners up. Barca have won 10 titles and 5 runners up.

That is incredible when you consider how much more competitive the EPL is. The reason for this? Fergie Fergie Fergie. He was the greatest football manager ever and the club and him were a perfect match.

I didn't expect us to be seventh this season. Its been poor but I knew once Fergie left that I can't expect this type of dominance ever again. Unless we got Guardiola to commit 20 years at UTD and bring lots of Barca and Bayern players with him.

I can't think of another manager who could have done what Fergie did, not even Pep.

We will be a top four club again no doubt whether its with Moyes or not who knows but I can't see us ever dominating like this again. Having a stranglehold on the top two spots like that. We will be one of four clubs in the mix and not the outright favourites each year.

Mitch Connor · 08-04-2014 10:09AM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

You obviously weren't around in the early 2000s. That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

You mean 2000/01 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2001/02 when we finished 3rd?
You mean 2002/03 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2003/04 when we finished 3rd?
You mean 2004/05 when we finished 3rd?
You mean 2005/06 when we finished 2nd?
You mean 2006/07 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2007/08 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2008/09 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2009/10 when we finished 2nd?

Which part of the decade in which we won half the available titles and never finished below 3rd was the part of a cycle comparable to now?

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:10AM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

You obviously weren't around in the early 2000s. That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Fairly sure we were constantly in the top 4 and challenged for trophies.

Mitch Connor · 08-04-2014 10:11AM

kippy wrote: »

Yeah, football is cyclical.
Barca and madrid have swapped spells at the top for years - but ultimately they are both resourced so heavily in relation to other clubs in the league that they wont be too far from the top for long - same as united.
Same with Celtic and rangers, they have cycles between them of dominance but until recently they are so well financed in relation to the rest of the league any blip is literally that, a blip. (granted rangers issues of the past years changed that a bit so its celtics cycle at the moment)

I'm not going to bother explianing the rest to you, but yes, there are cycles of football, big cycles or small cycles between a few clubs.

Dominant clubs over time generally are far better finance than the rest of the leagues they compete in.

So you are basically saying that any period in which a team doesn't finish first, is part of another cycle? absolute BS.

kippy · 08-04-2014 10:12AM

Maybe I'm being overly harsh.
But I've lost all love/interest/enjoyment for the past few years in supporting a business like United.

I laugh anymore when I see grown men try wind each other up because the club one of them supports happens to be doing better than the club another supports. As if the business you support somehow defines you.

Leaving this conversation now as I see it as pointless at this stage.

Mitch Connor · 08-04-2014 10:13AM

MagicIRL wrote: »

United are in 7th because neither Moyes nor Woodward hit the ground running. Both were well out of their depth altogether and it showed.

Moyes has started to steady the ship in recent weeks with convincing wins. He needs to start beating the 'top' teams come next season or he's gone.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA.

Steadied the ship with wins over Newcastle, Aston Villa and Olympiacos - while getting our asses handed to us by City, Liverpool and Olympiacos.

Yep, everything is starting to look rosey now!

MagicIRL · 08-04-2014 10:16AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA.

Steadied the ship with wins over Newcastle, Aston Villa and Olympiacos - while getting our asses handed to us by City, Liverpool and Olympiacos.

Yep, everything is starting to look rosey now!

Did he, or did he not win? I said he needs to beat the top teams to stay in the job. Jesus Mitch, at least read the post before your comment boner takes all the blood from your head.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:17AM

kippy wrote: »

Yeah, I think that's knee jerk.
Why?
1. United aren't short of cash at the moment. They can afford a couple of seasons without major success.
2. 9 Months into 6 year term isn't enough to judge him on.
3. He's gonna have a bit to learn - that should be obvious.
4. History has shown that judging manangers on their first nine months is as daft as you can get.

1. Why should we accept it when measures can be made to ensure we return to the top next season ?
2. Rodgers- Liverpool on fire for January onwards, progress and style of play, body language all in check while they struggled, with far inferior players. Martinez, Mourinho, Pellegrinni. Simeone, Conte, De Boer.
3. More than a decade in the premier league.
4. Hodgson

MagicIRL wrote: »

United are in 7th because neither Moyes nor Woodward hit the ground running. Both were well out of their depth altogether and it showed.

Moyes has started to steady the ship in recent weeks with convincing wins. He needs to start beating the 'top' teams come next season or he's gone.

Unconvincing win against Villa, ****e football but good goal against a Newcastle team beaten by the mighty Fulham lately ?

Mitch Connor · 08-04-2014 10:18AM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Did he, or did he not win? I said he needs to beat the top teams to stay in the job. Jesus Mitch, at least read the post before your comment boner takes all the blood from your head.

I'm laughing at the suggestion a few wins, in between some fecking hidings, constitutes steadying the ship.

The entire season has been like this - some good results and performances followed by disaster.

redbaron_99 · 08-04-2014 10:21AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You mean 2000/01 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2001/02 when we finished 3rd?
You mean 2002/03 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2003/04 when we finished 3rd?
You mean 2004/05 when we finished 3rd?
You mean 2005/06 when we finished 2nd?
You mean 2006/07 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2007/08 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2008/09 when we finished 1st?
You mean 2009/10 when we finished 2nd?

Which part of the decade in which we won half the available titles and never finished below 3rd was the part of a cycle comparable to now?

read my post again. early 2000s. and yes we were top four, but there was a serious fall off in quality for a few years there.
the situation at the moment is very different.
the stability that fergie offered is gone. its a time of change.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:22AM

kippy wrote: »

Maybe I'm being overly harsh.
But I've lost all love/interest/enjoyment for the past few years in supporting a business like United.

I laugh anymore when I see grown men try wind each other up because the club one of them supports happens to be doing better than the club another supports. As if the business you support somehow defines you.

Leaving this conversation now as I see it as pointless at this stage.

Cry me a river. Its a shame because the likes of Adnan,Shinji and Mata have brought a bit of joy to a sad season.

If you dont care that our on field success is dwindling then what are you supporting if not the business ?

Maximus Alexander · 08-04-2014 10:25AM

I'm startled that people don't see the difference between Rodgers joining and revitalizing a struggling and deflated Liverpool with comparatively low expectations and Moyes joining a squad of players with nothing left to prove, reigning champions coming down off a high of a quarter of a century of unparalleled success under one of the greatest managers the game has seen.

I'm not taking anything away from Rodgers, he has done a spectacular job, but every time I see someone compare the two challenges my head comes into swift contact with the keyboard.

beno619 · 08-04-2014 10:31AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm startled that people don't see the difference between Rodgers joining and revitalizing a struggling and deflated Liverpool with comparatively low expectations and Moyes joining a squad of players with nothing left to prove, reigning champions coming down off a high of a quarter of a century of unparalleled success under one of the greatest managers the game has seen.

I'm not taking anything away from Rodgers, he has done a spectacular job, but every time I see someone compare the two challenges my head comes into swift contact with the keyboard.

Rodgers will most likely win the title with Liverpool.

Are you trying to say that Rodgers taking Liverpool to the top with less money and inferior players was a tougher job than Moyes keeping the Champions competitive ? Wow.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Comments