Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Lord TSC · 07-04-2014 05:41PM

Also, on the idea of "Give him to Xmas".

Being honest, I have this feeling that if we got to Xmas and he still wasn't preforming, people still would be "Nah, give him more time, shure who'd we get now midseason".

bucketybuck · 07-04-2014 05:44PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Way to take a post purposely out of context. Keane pointed out some positive things Moyes has done for us. He never said it was a fantastic season and Moyes did a great job.

Keane attempted to create a narrative whereby people who think Moyes is doing a bad job are a shrill bunch who apparently never give him credit for anything, and he did it in an incredibly ham-fisted fashion.

Just look at some of the examples he used.

- Bought a central midfielder
doesn't matter he's ****

Newflash! Felliani has been ****! Complete rubbish so far. Why praise Moyes for that?

- bought Mata
doesn't matter not a central midfielder

Newsflash! Mata isn't the central midfielder we badly needed! Why praise Moyes for that?

If someone is going to try and present a section of the fans as a shrill bunch who never give credit then he really needs to do a better job of making the case because as has been said before, keeping your highest paid player, giving one of the youth team a chance and getting to the quarter finals aren't things worthy of praise, they are the fricking basics at a club like Manchester United.

I could make a similar list for Chris Hughton ffs, I suppose he deserved more praise as well.

beno619 · 07-04-2014 05:45PM

I see 4 very good goals in an otherwise crap performance against a crap Newcastle side have tricked people into another false dawn.

Il save my optimism for Wednesday, Evra will start and Kagawa is 50/50.

Mikeyt086 · 07-04-2014 05:53PM

beno619 wrote: »

I see 4 very good goals in an otherwise crap performance against a crap Newcastle side have tricked people into another false dawn.

Il save my optimism for Wednesday, Evra will start and Kagawa is 50/50.

We put out a B-team away in the Premier League and won 4-0, if thats a crap performance then I don't know what you want.

Your Airbag · 07-04-2014 05:53PM

Headshot wrote: »

I just give up tbh. "He hasnt destroyed any team" im gobsmacked. So let me get this straight, your saying finishing 7th, out of the CL qualification, worse points total since the PL started, numerous unwanted records, numerous embarrassing defeats isnt destroying the team? Bloody hell!

Its such a defeatist mindset "You don't undo a clubs history in one season. All great teams have had dips.". Liverpool were like that one day too. This is why im different than you. I dont have defeatist mindset like you, I want utd to strive for somthing better each season. Why shouldnt they? You could even say the appointment of a manager that has done **** all in the soccer world has brought this awful mentality to our club.

There are so may contradictions in this post I nearly didn't bother but here goes, firstly here is the definition of destroyed

destroy
dɪˈstrɔɪ/

verb
past tense: destroyed; past participle: destroyed
1.
end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.

Yes. I am saying finishing 7th and having no UCL football next season isn't classed as Moyes destroying UTD. Why? We could do a league and cup double next season. We could possibly scrape a UCL. Thats the beauty of football, you suffer a defeat and then there is a game the next week and a chance to turn it around.

To say you don't undo a clubs history in one seaon isn't defeatist, its realistic. You then ramble off some stuff about how I'm not like you and you want UTD to strive for better. You think we all don't? I hope we win the UCL this season. I hope we sign great players in the summer and win the league next season.

You then contradict yourself and say Liverpool were like that once. If Liverpool were "destroyed" how are they now in with a chance to win the EPL?

Headshot wrote: »

Bit hard to post when on the mobile im afraid. I also apologies for my childish post, its just getting so tiring to read so many time lark posts from certain posters

I can never understand how fans keep supporting a manager that has shown he isnt utd quality. It has ignorance at this stage. Moyes wasnt the right man in the first place but to manage to make the team go from PL winning team to 6-7 spot in the league is some doing. I cant emphasis this enough. Yes the players have some of the blame but for me they dont want to play for Moyes. Besides Moyes being tactically stoned age, the players also must look at Moyes and wonder how did he get the job? You go from Fergie and then Moyes, bloody hell. That is some drop. Im not saying any manager could even get close to Fergie but im sure as hell say alot of managers would of lesson the blow of losing Fergie.

Of course fans like myself want Moyes to succeed but its clear he wont, when does it come that enough is enough, he has to go? This so called dip in form is a very slippery road and it could be a start of big trouble for next season. If Moyes was trying to put his own stamp on the team, I could live with this rubbish but Moyes has brought nothing to the club for any fan to stand up and say give him time.

There is nothing ignorant about wanting to give a manager more than one season.

You want Moyes gone. Some have more patience. Moyes could have good 2nd season. Nobody knows for sure.

07-04-2014 05:54PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Also, on the idea of "Give him to Xmas".

Being honest, I have this feeling that if we got to Xmas and he still wasn't preforming, people still would be "Nah, give him more time, shure who'd we get now midseason".

Honestly for me, it all comes down to this transfer window. If any of Kagawa, Nani and Hernandez go while Young and Valencia are kept it will show his true colours.

If on the other hand 2 CMs and a left back are brought in sharpish after the season ends with a couple more covering players with potential then I'll feel vindicated in defending the situation. I've not been impressed with United in a long time tactically, the only excitement I got was the late goals grinding out wins. Not the interplay, quick moves and smart play bar Nani and Rooney's collaboration for a couple of seasons. At the very least this season will make next season extra interesting. It has certainly revived my dislike of Liverpool anyway :P

The_Kew_Tour · 07-04-2014 05:58PM

Evans starts for U21 against Villa tonight in OT.

Your Airbag · 07-04-2014 06:03PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Keane attempted to create a narrative whereby people who think Moyes is doing a bad job are a shrill bunch who apparently never give him credit for anything, and he did it in an incredibly ham-fisted fashion.

Just look at some of the examples he used.

- Bought a central midfielder
doesn't matter he's ****

Newflash! Felliani has been ****! Complete rubbish so far. Why praise Moyes for that?

- bought Mata
doesn't matter not a central midfielder

Newsflash! Mata isn't the central midfielder we badly needed! Why praise Moyes for that?

If someone is going to try and present a section of the fans as a shrill bunch who never give credit then he really needs to do a better job of making the case because as has been said before, keeping your highest paid player, giving one of the youth team a chance and getting to the quarter finals aren't things worthy of praise, they are the fricking basics at a club like Manchester United.

I could make a similar list for Chris Hughton ffs, I suppose he deserved more praise as well.

There are some people who have given Moyes zero credit. A minority but yes all the same and shrill is too kind a word for them. Even before we kicked a ball this season people were losing their sh*t over Moyes doing something Fergie hasn't done in three seasons and sign a central MF.

Fellaini has not been completely rubbish so far or sh*te. This is a complete simplistic and over reaction to the reality of the situation. Fellaini has been good in some games, poor in other and average in some. He was playing a lot of the season with a damaged wrist.

We all know Mata isn't a central midfielder. I think this is where the satire element of Keanes post was lost on you. Moyes is aware of the problem, he went for Cesc, Herrera and Kedhira in the summer. He obviously felt that in January wasn't a good time to get a player and it usually isn't.

Getting to the qtr finals of the UCL unbeaten so far to boot isn't basic, its the opposite. Fergie failed to do it recently, we didn't even get out of the group in 2011/12 season.

keane2097 · 07-04-2014 06:06PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

There are some people who have given Moyes zero credit. A minority but yes all the same and shrill is too kind a word for them.

You'd swear I was wronging him. If below doesn't qualify as shrill I'd like to see a post that does:

bucketybuck wrote: »

Jeez, turns out United have had a ****ing fantastic season after all! How could we not see it? Many thanks to keane for showing us what we could not see and special thanks to David Moyes for doing such a great job.

xtal191 · 07-04-2014 06:06PM

So looking like Nani is definitely off in the summer, no surprises really. Would much prefer to be getting rid of Young and Valencia before him but I'm sure they'll both be staying.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9254666/transfer-news-agent-says-nani-expected-to-leave-manchester-united

Headshot · 07-04-2014 06:08PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

There are so may contradictions in this post I nearly didn't bother but here goes, firstly here is the definition of destroyed

Yes. I am saying finishing 7th and having now UCL football next season isn't classed as Moyes destroying UTD. Why? We could do a league and cup double next season. We could possibly scrape a UCL. Thats the beauty of football, you suffer a defeat and then there is a game the next week and a chance to turn it aroud.

Its classified as destroyed for me when you look at previous seasons and a club of utd stature. Moyes has shown nothing this season to even entertain the idea of winning anything next season. Moyes has won nothing in his career, so that shouldnt give you any hopes. He doesnt have that winning mentality, which echo's in his press conferences etc.

To say you don't undo a clubs history in one seaon isn't defeatist, its realistic. You then ramble off some stuff about how I'm not like you and you want UTD to strive for better. You think we all don't? I hope we win the UCL this season. I hope we sign great players in the summer and win the league next season.

The club history will never be hurt but the team is very much hurt im afraid. TBF it was defeatist thinking. A club like utd should never settle for a dip in form. If we had Jose at the helm, utd would firmly be safe in the top 4 and id be delighted.

You then contradict yourself and say Liverpool were like that once. If Liverpool were "destroyed" how are they now in with a chance to win the EPL?

How many years did it take pool to get where they are now and they are far from out of the slippery slope.

There is nothing ignorant about wanting to give a manager more than one season.

You want Moyes gone. Some have more patience. Moyes could have good 2nd season. Nobody knows for sure.

There should be no patience for a manager that has shown nothing since he came to utd. Patience needs to be earned by trying different things, trying to get the team play different. At least bring something to the club instead of the rubbish we see now. I want Moyes to succeed, he's a gentleman but I hate to say it that's all I think is good about him now. Moyes has shown nothing to even think he would get 2nd next season. He has a great squad now, well capable of top 4 but he is far from it and now there's stories of giving him 200m but wait he has a great squad now and still couldnt get 4th spot?

stesaurus · 07-04-2014 06:09PM

Did anyone see the build-up interviews before the Everton V Arsenal game? Everything Kenwright said about Martinez spoke volumes about Moyes. He's so happy to have a manager playing attractive entertaining football and bringing the club forward. Not once did I hear him say anything positive in regards to the previous regime. It was like he's won the lotto getting rid of Moyes and replaced with Martinez the way he was beaming.

The Fans, Players and now Chairman of Everton are so happy to be rid of Moyes it's insane. You'd think he had been replaced ala Pulis in order for the club to move forward. A manager reaching his level and being moved on in order for the club to progress; but no, he was poached and given the biggest job in English football!

You can list all the positives for this season you want, just looking at the table this season will show you how much we have regressed under his stewardship.
I am not an anti or pro anything in relation to Moyes. I'm a United fan that has been concerned since day 1 of his appointment. I've been hoping to be proven wrong and to see what Fergie etc. saw in him. It hasn't happened yet and I don't think it ever will. He just seems so far out of his depth.

wadacrack · 07-04-2014 06:09PM

Fellaini has been very very poor.Have everton missed him at all..Not really it tells the story where as Arsenal have struggled badly when Van Persie or fabregas left. Fellaini is a poor passer of the ball and very slow

bradlente · 07-04-2014 06:13PM

xtal191 wrote: »

So looking like Nani is definitely off in the summer, no surprises really. Would much prefer to be getting rid of Young and Valencia before him but I'm sure they'll both be staying.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9254666/transfer-news-agent-says-nani-expected-to-leave-manchester-united

Would much rather Valencia stay than the other two.A few quid for Nani and give Young one last chance next season.

If Anderson and Nani do both go in the Summer I wonder what kind of loss will be taken on them.They both have plenty of medals but bar a good season or so each really haven't lived up to potential.

The_Kew_Tour · 07-04-2014 06:13PM

xtal191 wrote: »

So looking like Nani is definitely off in the summer, no surprises really. Would much prefer to be getting rid of Young and Valencia before him but I'm sure they'll both be staying.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9254666/transfer-news-agent-says-nani-expected-to-leave-manchester-united

Your Airbag · 07-04-2014 06:16PM

Headshot wrote: »

There should be no patience for a manager that has shown nothing since he came to utd. Patience needs to be earned by trying different things, trying to get the team play different. At least bring something to the club instead of the rubbish we see now. I want Moyes to succeed, he's a gentleman but I hate to say it that's all I think is good about him now. Moyes has shown nothing to even think he would get 2nd next season. He has a great squad now, well capable of top 4 but he is far from it and now there's stories of giving him 200m but wait he has a great squad now and still couldnt get 4th spot?

Its classified as destroyed for me when you look at previous seasons and a club of utd stature. Moyes has shown nothing this season to even entertain the idea of winning anything next season. Moyes has won nothing in his career, so that shouldnt give you any hopes. He doesnt have that winning mentality, which echo's in his press conferences etc.

Destroyed is not this, its not the text in red. To destroy something is to irresversable damage to such an extent that it never exists again.

UTD were relegated before. We have finshed lower than 7th before. The club has been through much harder times than this before Fergies time and excelled and has been the best time and time again.

It hasn't been a great season, its been depressing at times but your painting a picture of a club and manager than cannot bounce back. This simply isn't true. Moyes maybe able to have a great second season, if not he will get the boot.

One thing for sure is that UTD are not destroyed in any way shape or form or anything close to it.

Rubber_Soul · 07-04-2014 06:16PM

s.welstead wrote: »

Not once did I hear him say anything positive in regards to the previous regime. It was like he's won the lotto getting rid of Moyes and replaced with Martinez the way he was beaming.

You must not have been listening too closely so as he was quite effusive about Moyes.

IamtheWalrus · 07-04-2014 06:16PM

xtal191 wrote: »

So looking like Nani is definitely off in the summer, no surprises really. Would much prefer to be getting rid of Young and Valencia before him but I'm sure they'll both be staying.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9254666/transfer-news-agent-says-nani-expected-to-leave-manchester-united

I think Moyes will sell Young and Valenia too.

Blatter · 07-04-2014 06:23PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Also, on the idea of "Give him to Xmas".

Being honest, I have this feeling that if we got to Xmas and he still wasn't preforming, people still would be "Nah, give him more time, shure who'd we get now midseason".

The problem with giving him until Xmas is he'll be given a lot of money in the Summer and it'll be almost impossible for him not to improve on this season.

I could envisage a situation at Xmas where he's maybe in the thick of it for 4th place after spending ~£150m and people will say 'he's progressing, he's building, there's improvement etc.' when in reality he still won't be working towrads getting the best out of what he has available but it will just look a lot better as a result of drastically lowered expectations.

He should be sacked at the end of the season and the club should move heaven and earth to get somebody like Klopp or Simeone in.

Rubber_Soul · 07-04-2014 06:24PM

Obviously don't want to see Nani go but I don't understand why so many want to see Young shipped off. I see him as an attacking version of John O'Shea, not good enough to excel in any one position but can provide cover in a variety of them. Every squad needs players like that.

Hococop · 07-04-2014 06:25PM

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Obviously don't want to see Nani go but I don't understand why so many want to see Young shipped off. I see him as an attacking version of John O'Shea, not good enough to excel in any one position but can provide cover in a variety of them. Every squad needs players like that.

I think a big issue is wages £118000 a week

Your Airbag · 07-04-2014 06:26PM

StarshipPooper wrote: »

You must not have been listening too closely so as he was quite effusive about Moyes.

He said in an interview before the Arsenal game Sunday something along the lines of "Any fan thinks David Moyes didn't do a good job at Everton is odd".

Its typical really. People are losng their cool and ignoring anything but the negatives. Their minds have been made up on Moyes and there is not point trying to reason with them.

If we listened to people after DDG's first season he would not be playing for UTD anymore.

You'd swear Moyes and UTD are finished as a force forever they way some people are talking.

onemorechance · 07-04-2014 06:28PM

Long term commitment: Moyes +

Improved Everton greatly: Moyes +

Efficient transfer dealings: Moyes +

Barkley said that Martinez is better coach to learn from, more tactical in training: Moyes -

Osman has said that Martinez has given them more belief in themselves: Moyes -

that Moyes set up to defend and allow opposition to have the ball and counter attack: Moyes -

( worked well in the bayern game, but should not be used always ): Moyes +-

that Martinez sets up to have possession and that gives the players confidence (was very apparent in the Arsenal game yesterday) : Moyes -

Results have been very poor and thus so is the league position: Moyes -

United need only 4 more points to match Liverpool's total in Rodger's year 1, and his second year has been great: Moyes +

Liverpool were winning games by big scores last year and improved a lot in the second half of the season: Moyes -

Moyes took over the champions: Moyes -

Moyes has early on identified where Unite'd big weaknesses are, LB and CM: Moyes +

He so far hasn't fixed it: Moyes -

He has done well with Januzai: Moyes +

He uses the word 'hopefully' too much: Moyes -

kippy · 07-04-2014 06:28PM

s.welstead wrote: »

Did anyone see the build-up interviews before the Everton V Arsenal game? Everything Kenwright said about Martinez spoke volumes about Moyes. He's so happy to have a manager playing attractive entertaining football and bringing the club forward. Not once did I hear him say anything positive in regards to the previous regime. It was like he's won the lotto getting rid of Moyes and replaced with Martinez the way he was beaming.

The Fans, Players and now Chairman of Everton are so happy to be rid of Moyes it's insane. You'd think he had been replaced ala Pulis in order for the club to move forward. A manager reaching his level and being moved on in order for the club to progress; but no, he was poached and given the biggest job in English football!

You can list all the positives for this season you want, just looking at the table this season will show you how much we have regressed under his stewardship.
I am not an anti or pro anything in relation to Moyes. I'm a United fan that has been concerned since day 1 of his appointment. I've been hoping to be proven wrong and to see what Fergie etc. saw in him. It hasn't happened yet and I don't think it ever will. He just seems so far out of his depth.

Well hes hardly gonna say hes missing moyes and that Martinez is ****e no matter what the scenario.....
One season does not a manager make
And that works both ways.

Fenix · 07-04-2014 06:31PM

Some strike from Wilson in the u21 game. Hope he gets his debut come the end of the season.

Rubber_Soul · 07-04-2014 06:36PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

He said in an interview before the Arsenal game Sunday something along the lines of "Any fan thinks David Moyes didn't do a good job at Everton is odd".

Its typical really. People are losng their cool and ignoring anything but the negatives. Their minds have been made up on Moyes and there is not point trying to reason with them.

Yeah said it myself a few days ago, people have become partisan about it and are only hearing what they want to hear at this stage. I'm firmly in the Moyes out camp myself but there's no need to twist reality in order to criticise the man.

Your Airbag · 07-04-2014 06:37PM

onemorechance wrote: »

Long term commitment: Moyes +

Improved Everton greatly: Moyes +

Efficient transfer dealings: Moyes +

Barkley said that Martinez is better coach to learn from, more tactical in training: Moyes -

Osman has said that Martinez has given them more belief in themselves: Moyes -

that Moyes set up to defend and allow opposition to have the ball and counter attack: Moyes -

( worked well in the bayern game, but should not be used always ): Moyes +-

that Martinez sets up to have possession and that gives the players confidence (was very apparent in the Arsenal game yesterday) : Moyes -

Results have been very poor and thus so is the league position: Moyes -

United need only 4 more points to match Liverpool's total in Rodger's year 1, and his second year has been great: Moyes +

Liverpool were winning games by big scores last year and improved a lot in the second half of the season: Moyes -

Moyes took over the champions: Moyes -

Moyes has early on identified where Unite'd big weaknesses are, LB and CM: Moyes +

He so far hasn't fixed it: Moyes -

He has done well with Januzai: Moyes +

He uses the word 'hopefully' too much: Moyes -

9 minues and 7 pluses. Sounds about right so far. A lot of those pluses can be truned around, some players have said good things about Moyes but you'd expect that.

I'm giving him one more season. I want to see improvement, lots of it. No UCL will be tough next season especially when the big knockout matches are being played but its not the end of the world.

If the preformances don't improve then I will join the Moyes out chorus.

redbaron_99 · 07-04-2014 06:38PM

s.welstead wrote: »

Did anyone see the build-up interviews before the Everton V Arsenal game? Everything Kenwright said about Martinez spoke volumes about Moyes. He's so happy to have a manager playing attractive entertaining football and bringing the club forward. Not once did I hear him say anything positive in regards to the previous regime. It was like he's won the lotto getting rid of Moyes and replaced with Martinez the way he was beaming.

The Fans, Players and now Chairman of Everton are so happy to be rid of Moyes it's insane. You'd think he had been replaced ala Pulis in order for the club to move forward. A manager reaching his level and being moved on in order for the club to progress; but no, he was poached and given the biggest job in English football!

You can list all the positives for this season you want, just looking at the table this season will show you how much we have regressed under his stewardship.
I am not an anti or pro anything in relation to Moyes. I'm a United fan that has been concerned since day 1 of his appointment. I've been hoping to be proven wrong and to see what Fergie etc. saw in him. It hasn't happened yet and I don't think it ever will. He just seems so far out of his depth.

this sort of stuff really gets up my nose. Everton didnt win the lottery when they got Martinez, they won it when David Moyes came to the club.
My best mate is a toffee and I've been to Goodison dozens of times over the last 20 odd years, and know quite a bit about them.
They were an absolute shambles of a club when Moyes took over. They were headed the way of Nottingham Forest! I'm pretty sure they only avoided relegation the year before he went there with a late goal on the last day of the season. Moyes took that club by the scruff of the neck, rebuilt it and took them from relegation fodder to a club that was regularly in the top six. A massive turnaround, considering the meager budget he had to work with.
Bill Kenwright was praising Moyes every week for many years, and rightfully so.
For an Everton fan or person connected with the club to have a pop at Moyes is a disgrace. Without him they'd probably would have spent several years in absolute wilderness.
And I'm still not convinced on Martinez. He used to have Wigan flying for the first half of every season, then they'd go into meltdown. And he got them relegated last season.
He's done brilliantly so far, with the team that Moyes basically built, but let's see how it goes in the long term.

RANT!!! :pac::pac:

bradlente · 07-04-2014 06:40PM

Fair dues to Everton and Martinez,they're playing excellent stuff.Trouncing Arsenal at home,that's a result that signals where they could go.For the first time in yonks they have a superb player up top in Lukaku and another cool head in midfield,Gareth Barry.Both these lads and another little wizard,Gerard Delofeu,aren't guaranteed to be there next season.In fact I'll go out on a limb and say that probably the only one out of the three that'll still be there next year is 33 year old Gareth Barry.
Lukaku is going to leave a serious mark on that team,talk about boots to fill.Delofeu has been very good all season too.Martinez looks to have bought well in Mccarthy,with a bit of tutelage from the likes of Barry he will develop very well.But I think next season is going to be a whole different kettle of fish for Everton.
To compare the two teams is fair,after all both managers switched over and a big signing took place between the teams.But to use the comparison as reasoning to sack the manager at this point in time just seems over reactionary to me.I'd say it's hasty after a full season,let alone 32 games.

Rubber_Soul · 07-04-2014 06:40PM

Hococop wrote: »

I think a big issue is wages £118000 a week

Meh, it's only about 20k above the squad average, hardly breaking the bank to be fair. Anyway he's only got about 2 years left on his contract and I doubt he'll be getting an improved offer. Handy squad player to have.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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