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Factories acting the b****x

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    #92
    sheebadog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭sheebadog


    Problem as I see it in the IFA is a reflection of the greater political system in Ireland. Party politics is "parish pump" gombeenism where everyone is only out to look out for themselves. Farmers in Ireland NEVER stand together on national issues. Divided you fall.

    Farmers have unreal power if they stuck together, but they won't.
    I am not downing the IFA, if it were not for them farmers would be out in the cold.
    Irish farmers have a lot to thank French farmers on a European level.

    Now lads as Rancher says fair dues to a handful of factories for controlling 50k farmers. Is it a reflection on the IFA or the farmers or the government?

    Farmers "United" can be some powerful force. Irish farmers will never unite it is sad to say because of the underlying me feinism that is in the Irish psyche

    Rant over.


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    #93
    epfff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭epfff


    sheebadog wrote: »
    Problem as I see it in the IFA is a reflection of the greater political system in Ireland. Party politics is "parish pump" gombeenism where everyone is only out to look out for themselves. Farmers in Ireland NEVER stand together on national issues. Divided you fall.

    Farmers have unreal power if they stuck together, but they won't.
    I am not downing the IFA, if it were not for them farmers would be out in the cold.
    Irish farmers have a lot to thank French farmers on a European level.

    Now lads as Rancher says fair dues to a handful of factories for controlling 50k farmers. Is it a reflection on the IFA or the farmers or the government?

    Farmers "United" can be some powerful force. Irish farmers will never unite it is sad to say because of the underlying me feinism that is in the Irish psyche

    Rant over.

    Finally a bit of logic On the Ifa here


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    #94
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    Rancher what you are saying then is that, it is from the bottom the IFA must be lead. That really there is no point in electing a President, Vice President or regional Presidents. It is also coming across that if the IFA discovered a Mart group, milk processor or meat processor doing something illegal or that they might suspect is against the law they would do nothing if effected one section of the organisation. This bull about farmers not supporting the organisation, any organisation that discovers this and has done nothing about it for let say 5 years is starting to decay.

    The reality if they referred this to the CA and it rules that it is not illegal well and good they have tried, However it comes across that they are either afraid of upsetting some members or that maybe they are afraid of a lash back from the factory;s in the form of a refusal to collect levy's ( not sure of the split or the level of withholding) but it is a potential 2.25 million or maybe LG pays the levy as weel on the cattle out of his feedlot. Last Christmas it is reputed that he had 15+ cattle in feedlots so 22.5K+ in levys he paid.

    What is happening is market manulipation IMO. This is illegal at the very least it would highlight the issue without uosetting ordinary people. However I suppose Heanry like every other IFA leader must organise a tractorcade to Dublin.

    What is the point of whingeing on an anonymous forum, it's not as if you go to meetings to raise your point and it gets ignored....you just don't seem to bother.
    BTW I hate when someone tries to spin my posts,
    Again I say are you sad enough to believe that farmers going to Dublin are concerned about where the funding comes from


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    #95
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    epfff wrote: »
    Finally a bit of logic On the Ifa here

    and on Irish farmers, you can't change them,
    IFA on the other hand is a democracy


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    #96
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    freedominacup wrote: »
    Two of the biggest problems in the beef industry are the number of movements and the notion of "storing" cattle.

    Is it your honest opinion that these are the two biggest 'problems' in the beef industry ATM??

    Should a farmer not have the right to sell or buy cattle if and when he pleases? It's his own business whether he's making a profit or a loss. He doesn't need to be wrapped up in needless red tape and micro managed to within an inch of his life. Whether an animal has 10 or 2 movements, what difference does it make????

    RE 'store' cattle - there are a lot of young farmers out there that think they know it all, but know sweet FA about how a beef animal grows and how to get the most out of them with minimal inputs. Like Con says about farming sheep on the side of a mountain, the lad with the stick and the dog will survive better. In beef farming terms, the lad that doesn't have to look to the meal bin for his answers may weather the storm better...... and that's the brutal truth ATM.


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    #97
    TITANIUM.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭TITANIUM.


    rancher wrote: »
    Cop yourself on, we lead the charge on the CAP reform and there was loads of protests in Dublin and I drove past loads of farmers places on the way to Dublin who were getting €500- €1000ha SFP and they didn't even bother going 30mls to protect it. what would they be getting now if Ciolos got his way.....€300/ha.
    I'm definitely different than you in that if I have a genuine grieviance, I wouldn't be lying back and complaining on a discussion forum...ffs
    I will do something for you, I don't agree that factories are doing any thing illegal but if another county raises the issue, I'll support it

    I can't go to meetings and say anonymous poster on boards claims......!!!!!!.you could be anyone, you could even be getting over €500/ha sfp and still complaining about IFA.
    If a good suggestion come up, I'd probably claim it as my own

    Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself?
    No need for the personal stuff. Just because someone doesn't share your opinion, doesn't make them full of Sh1t.
    I've never contemplated pulling my payment to the IFA and if I want to say something be it online or im the flesh I'll say it. I don't need a IFA enforcer dogmatically jumping down my throat and telling me to cop myself on.
    Poor show from you sir......


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    #98
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Wahoo!

    Another interesting thread derailed into an IFA bashing session...

    FFS...

    :(


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    #99
    TITANIUM.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭TITANIUM.


    Username John wrote: »
    Wahoo!

    Another interesting thread derailed into an IFA bashing session...

    FFS...

    :(

    Careful John, you don't want to be caught posting online in your new job;-)


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    #100
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    Username John wrote: »
    Wahoo!

    Another interesting thread derailed into an IFA bashing session...

    FFS...

    :(

    I thought I was very good to stay out of it for so long.....


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    #101
    lefthooker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭lefthooker


    Username John wrote: »
    Wahoo!

    Another interesting thread derailed into an IFA bashing session...

    FFS...

    :(

    +1

    Haven't had a chance to reply lads but have been reading away but like I said early on
    I'm not here to bash the IFA this time, I'm just sick of the factories carry on.

    The facts are that the IFA leadership must be aware of the anger and frustration of beef finishers but seem unwilling to tackle the cause. A text about a bus to take you to a protest just doesn't cut it. Thats not what I want my membership and levies being spent on. Besides, most farmers don't have the time to go for a photo op. That then translate to IFA bashing when anybody grumbles. Whats worse is when others try to defend it. Farmers tend to be a stand alone group, thats why a strong farm body needs to take the lead.

    But anyway, back to the factory sharp tactics......


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    #102
    Mad4simmental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Mad4simmental


    Another interesting thread derailed into an IFA bashing session...
    FFS...



    Yep thinking that my self, exactly what sheepdog said is happening here. Only way that it can be fixed is if people put there heads toghter and try solve the problem insted of pointing fingers as per usuall.


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    #103
    leg wax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭leg wax


    i am not a member of the irish factory ass ,but a member of the icsa, can i ask 1 question , why would the ifa not join the other farming groups north and south to make a stand,i know the main group up north did not either .


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    #104
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    Muckit wrote: »
    Is it your honest opinion that these are the two biggest 'problems' in the beef industry ATM??

    Should a farmer not have the right to sell or buy cattle if and when he pleases? It's his own business whether he's making a profit or a loss. He doesn't need to be wrapped up in needless red tape and micro managed to within an inch of his life. Whether an animal has 10 or 2 movements, what difference does it make????

    RE 'store' cattle - there are a lot of young farmers out there that think they know it all, but know sweet FA about how a beef animal grows and how to get the most out of them with minimal inputs. Like Con says about farming sheep on the side of a mountain, the lad with the stick and the dog will survive better. In beef farming terms, the lad that doesn't have to look to the meal bin for his answers may weather the storm better...... and that's the brutal truth ATM.

    There is a big difference between storing and storing cattle. I store Fresian Bullocks as they are so inefficent there is no way I am going to try to gain anything over 0.5Kg/day indoors. However this is totally different to lads that have cattle for 2 years and they are only gaining 150kgs/year. Look at cattle that are 15-20 months after two summers that are less than 400kgs, anf I am not talking only about Friesians.

    I also agree that having a big meal bill is not the answer. I see loads of farmers that set stock from April to November. Cattle gio into 5-8'' of grass and may not be moved. A battery fencer and a few pigtails will split any field into 3-4 paddocks for 200-250 euro and after that it is only sorting water. It can be long narrow strips to access water at the back of the Field.

    How about the ragwort plantations that lads will not spray or cut.

    Username John wrote: »
    Wahoo!

    Another interesting thread derailed into an IFA bashing session...

    FFS...

    :(

    The reality is that Invidual farmers can dop little to sieze back control from factory's. A large finisher who is exiting the market for dairying commented to me that at present he can get not a cent more than I get. He commented that this was the first winter he went feeding cattle that he had no contract. He smelled a rat however he had money tied up in feed.I suspect in the 50K+ bracket.

    Form talking to a few active IFA members they seem so preoccupied with SFP that little else is taken into account.

    Rancher I am not whinging I am stating facts that are staring me in the face. Most finishers will have way less in there pocket to buy cattle as they go out next September/October. Lets see if larry and co pay as much for stores from September. Also as they are rearing calves now lets see in September 12 months what they pay for store.

    Lets also see the implication to millers who will have to compete against his mills and how this may impact on grain prices. One leads to two and so on.

    Believe it or not I think it will backfire down the line however it will be 2-5 years. Trying to survive will be the thing.


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    #105
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    lefthooker wrote: »
    +1

    Haven't had a chance to reply lads but have been reading away but like I said early on


    The facts are that the IFA leadership must be aware of the anger and frustration of beef finishers but seem unwilling to tackle the cause. A text about a bus to take you to a protest just doesn't cut it. Thats not what I want my membership and levies being spent on. Besides, most farmers don't have the time to go for a photo op. That then translate to IFA bashing when anybody grumbles. Whats worse is when others try to defend it. Farmers tend to be a stand alone group, thats why a strong farm body needs to take the lead.

    But anyway, back to the factory sharp tactics......

    Henry Burns was getting it hot and heavy at the last National Executive, and then everyone in the room got a text, henry hit the desk and said, ''right lads your text says another 5c down next week, what are you going to do''......tell you one thing, it sure quietened the room.


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    #106
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    leg wax wrote: »
    i am not a member of the irish factory ass ,but a member of the icsa, can i ask 1 question , why would the ifa not join the other farming groups north and south to make a stand,i know the main group up north did not either .

    What's the point, they're not doing anything that we haven't already tried, hard enough to run one organisation


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    #107
    dzer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭dzer2


    There is more threads on here whining and bitching over the factories and IFA and rancher and god knows who. Lads pissing over sfp and das and reps.

    NOT ONE GOOD IDEA OR NOTION has being spouted in all the sh1t why dont some one start a thread for this and anyone that turns it into a heap of dung gets banned and see where that gets us


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    #108
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    There is a big difference between storing and storing cattle. I store Fresian Bullocks as they are so inefficent there is no way I am going to try to gain anything over 0.5Kg/day indoors. However this is totally different to lads that have cattle for 2 years and they are only gaining 150kgs/year. Look at cattle that are 15-20 months after two summers that are less than 400kgs, anf I am not talking only about Friesians.

    I also agree that having a big meal bill is not the answer. I see loads of farmers that set stock from April to November. Cattle gio into 5-8'' of grass and may not be moved. A battery fencer and a few pigtails will split any field into 3-4 paddocks for 200-250 euro and after that it is only sorting water. It can be long narrow strips to access water at the back of the Field.

    How about the ragwort plantations that lads will not spray or cut.




    The reality is that Invidual farmers can dop little to sieze back control from factory's. A large finisher who is exiting the market for dairying commented to me that at present he can get not a cent more than I get. He commented that this was the first winter he went feeding cattle that he had no contract. He smelled a rat however he had money tied up in feed.I suspect in the 50K+ bracket.

    Form talking to a few active IFA members they seem so preoccupied with SFP that little else is taken into account.

    Rancher I am not whinging I am stating facts that are staring me in the face. Most finishers will have way less in there pocket to buy cattle as they go out next September/October. Lets see if larry and co pay as much for stores from September. Also as they are rearing calves now lets see in September 12 months what they pay for store.

    Lets also see the implication to millers who will have to compete against his mills and how this may impact on grain prices. One leads to two and so on.

    Believe it or not I think it will backfire down the line however it will be 2-5 years. Trying to survive will be the thing.

    SFP is just more visual, we're making good progress with CAP reform, etc.


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    #109
    mf240
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭mf240


    Two ideas don't know whether there good or bad.

    Contact you local politician and ask them to make the competition authority aware of the monopoly that exists.

    Export as many calves and weanlings as possible. And look into getting a store trade to Britain opened up.


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    #110
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    mf240 wrote: »
    Two ideas don't know whether there good or bad.

    Contact you local politician and ask them to make the competition authority aware of the monopoly that exists.

    Export as many calves and weanlings as possible. And look into getting a store trade to Britain opened up.

    Cows are going to England all the time, so physically getting them there is no problem but customers is


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    #111
    F.D
    Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭F.D


    Lads it wont change for 2 reasons

    1) Most of us bitching here are in full time employment and

    A) dont have time to go on the free bus to dublin to protest
    B) As long as we have the job to prop up the farm or even if it keeps itsself running at zero profit or a little along with it its not hurting us ("Sure maybe next year it will be better")

    2) With the SFP and other indirect payments as small as they are... we are never going to feel the real pain of the cost ofproducing a kg of beef, if that goes there will be a lot of better farmers including me


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    #112
    onyerbikepat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    The opening up of the live trade to the UK would be a great help.

    http://www.scotsman.com/business/food-drink-agriculture/irish-breeders-target-exports-to-uk-1-3263146

    Couple that to the expected explosion in Dairy numbers in the next few years and we might see a different picture altogether.


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    #113
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    onyerbikepat wrote: »
    The opening up of the live trade to the UK would be a great help.

    http://www.scotsman.com/business/food-drink-agriculture/irish-breeders-target-exports-to-uk-1-3263146

    Couple that to the expected explosion in Dairy numbers in the next few years and we might see a different picture altogether.

    I think I'll believe it when I see it, Published 10th jan, don't see any improvements since


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    #114
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    onyerbikepat wrote: »
    The opening up of the live trade to the UK would be a great help.

    http://www.scotsman.com/business/food-drink-agriculture/irish-breeders-target-exports-to-uk-1-3263146

    Couple that to the expected explosion in Dairy numbers in the next few years and we might see a different picture altogether.

    It is unlikly that a live trade of store cattle to england will make much difference. Supermarkets have there heart set against what they call nomadic cattle. They refuse to allow the branding of these cattle of being either Irish or British. Look to NI where factory's are refusing to kill southern born cattle there.

    The reality is that 50-80K cattle finished in factory feedlots if even that allow them to control supply. By managing to suppress prices in Dec/January and back up supply the have controled the market since then. farmers may blame bulls, heavy cattle and higher numbers etc however the main reason they have managed to control supply and price is the cattle that they killed out of there own feedlots during Dec/Jan that allowed them to back up other farmers cattle.


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    #115
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    It is unlikly that a live trade of store cattle to england will make much difference. Supermarkets have there heart set against what they call nomadic cattle. They refuse to allow the branding of these cattle of being either Irish or British. Look to NI where factory's are refusing to kill southern born cattle there.

    The reality is that 50-80K cattle finished in factory feedlots if even that allow them to control supply. By managing to suppress prices in Dec/January and back up supply the have controled the market since then. farmers may blame bulls, heavy cattle and higher numbers etc however the main reason they have managed to control supply and price is the cattle that they killed out of there own feedlots during Dec/Jan that allowed them to back up other farmers cattle.

    Those feedlot cattle would have been there any way, they wouldn't have disappeared just because the factory didn't buy them....glut was going to happen anyway, look at the numbers that are being killed.


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    #116
    Mad4simmental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Mad4simmental


    Those feedlot cattle would have been there any way, they wouldn't have disappeared just because the factory didn't buy them...

    Maby, maby not, the point that people are trying to put across is that they controle how many they kill and when and what and where EVERYTHING. They can afford to do it in huge numbers at a brake even or small loss. That will squees out all the compatision and that is illegal. They know they have the farmers by the balls.


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    #117
    leg wax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭leg wax


    rancher wrote: »
    What's the point, they're not doing anything that we haven't already tried, hard enough to run one organisation

    thats the ifa for ya, whats the point, pity they didnt think of that before going to their little day out in dublin what was the point.not having a go at you rancher ,the ifa have tried and failed,as has every one else,but to have all stood together and put it up to the factories was the point.


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    #118
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    leg wax wrote: »
    thats the ifa for ya, whats the point, pity they didnt think of that before going to their little day out in dublin what was the point.not having a go at you rancher ,the ifa have tried and failed,as has every one else,but to have all stood together and put it up to the factories was the point.

    Nothing stopping you going to whatever they're arranging. over 250 in this county asked to go to Kepak Clonee a month ago....wouldn't like to tell you how many went.


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    #119
    onyerbikepat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    For as long as I can remember, farmers have been protesting outside factory gates. Doesnt make one blind bit of difference. You might as well walk up and down your own living room with a placard.:mad:


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    #120
    biddy2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭biddy2013


    onyerbikepat wrote: »
    For as long as I can remember, farmers have been protesting outside factory gates. Doesnt make one blind bit of difference. You might as well walk up and down your own living room with a placard.:mad:
    down with that sort of thing


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    #121
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    onyerbikepat wrote: »
    For as long as I can remember, farmers have been protesting outside factory gates. Doesnt make one blind bit of difference. You might as well walk up and down your own living room with a placard.:mad:

    I believe its a waste of time too, but I just go with the flow ( democracy its called)


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