Factories acting the b****x

lefthooker

Rant time. How are you getting on booking in cattle?

We've been supplying Slaney with cattle for decades. Usually ring to book cattle in and they'd be gone in a few days if not the next day. This spring I've been ringing since the first of march trying to get cattle in and finally last week got a trailer, 10 heifer booked in for this Thursday. So rang again last Friday to try for another load only to be told that "they couldn't kill my cattle this week so don't bring them up and we'll see for the following week". Today they won't take or return calls. I believe it's no better in other factories.

Now I know the factories are only a shower of hoors at the best of times but this is beyond a joke. Accordingly the silence from our farm bodies is predictably deafening.

oldsmokey

If the IFA kick up a fuss, do you think the factories will continue to collect their levy?

dharn

Ifa, ? irish factories association:pac:

lefthooker

oldsmokey wrote: »

If the IFA kick up a fuss, do you think the factories will continue to collect their levy?

Last time I checked it was a levy paid by the producer and not a donation given by the factory. But I do agree all they're interested in lately is collecting levies and membership. And carefully choreographed sponsored walks around the dept of agriculture, I didn't see any slaughterhouse on Kildare st. But I'm not here to bash the IFA this time, I'm just sick of the factories carry on.

TUBBY

lefthooker wrote: »

Last time I checked it was a levy paid by the producer and not a donation given by the factory. But I do agree all they're interested in lately is collecting levies and membership. And carefully choreographed sponsored walks around the dept of agriculture, I didn't see any slaughterhouse on Kildare st. But I'm not here to bash the IFA this time, I'm just sick of the factories carry on.

Related topic. Anyone know any other industry where the producer have to book their product into a specified factory 100 days in advance with no idea what the base price will be at the time. No wonder the factories have so much power. This is the current setup for angus and Hereford schemes to maximise your bonus. Factories would gain a lot more respect if they gave forward contract prices.

bbam

TUBBY wrote: »

Related topic. Anyone know any other industry where the producer have to book their product into a specified factory 100 days in advance with no idea what the base price will be at the time. No wonder the factories have so much power. This is the current setup for angus and Hereford schemes to maximise your bonus. Factories would gain a lot more respect if they gave forward contract prices.

Factories don't want or need respect... they have the industry by the bollix and that's all they want !!

jt65

lefthooker wrote: »

Rant time. How are you getting on booking in cattle?

We've been supplying Slaney with cattle for decades. Usually ring to book cattle in and they'd be gone in a few days if not the next day. This spring I've been ringing since the first of march trying to get cattle in and finally last week got a trailer, 10 heifer booked in for this Thursday. So rang again last Friday to try for another load only to be told that "they couldn't kill my cattle this week so don't bring them up and we'll see for the following week". Today they won't take or return calls. I believe it's no better in other factories.

Now I know the factories are only a shower of hoors at the best of times but this is beyond a joke. Accordingly the silence from our farm bodies is predictably deafening.

a local agent here who often sent 2 doubles a day to slaney has stopped buying for them for some time

poor farmer

lefthooker wrote: »

Last time I checked it was a levy paid by the producer and not a donation given by the factory. But I do agree all they're interested in lately is collecting levies and membership. And carefully choreographed sponsored walks around the dept of agriculture, I didn't see any slaughterhouse on Kildare st. But I'm not here to bash the IFA this time, I'm just sick of the factories carry on.

I stood outside the gates of Kepak clonee ,not that made any difference i think the dropped the base price 10 cent that week.
What type of action do you suggest .The are getting 32000+ cattle a week.

farmernewbie

I don't finish cattle but I buy weanlings and sell as forward stores. Prices I see weanlings this year is the same as last if not more expensive. I'm holding off until they get cheaper. Surely if factories keep this prices up farmers must adjust there prices at buying time?

dharn

Thats what amazes me too, good quality chars or lims, which you struggle to finish at 30 months or under 400 kg killout are as dear as ever , why ?

onyerbikepat

Is there not a glut of bulls there at the moment, especially all those Friesians not exported 2 years ago, like they normally are.

Miname

dharn wrote: »

Thats what amazes me too, good quality chars or lims, which you struggle to finish at 30 months or under 400 kg killout are as dear as ever , why ?

I dont see much of an issue finishing char or limo under 30 months. if they get a good enough do they can be easy enough finished, fair enough they will require a bit more feeding than what most are used to but i still reckon it pays more to push them on a bit than having them hanging around that extra time growing with no feeding.

dharn

Ya they can but now some factories are looking for 380 killout it flies in the face of the nature of your lim or char steer I could buy nice stores for 1200 euro and get 1600 to1700 at 30 months killout 420 or more, now you pay same for store but 380 x 380= 1440 euro

mf240

This time two years ago factory prices started to rise.

Paddy farmer arrived at the calf mart soon afterwards and he out bid the exporters for all the dairy calves,and not content with that he even Brought in some more from the north and even a few from eastern Europe.

Then paddy went to the weanling sales and outbid the exporters once again.

Now there are two many cattle in the county and there is a waiting list to get cattle killed.it's quite simple really.

Farmer Pudsey

dharn wrote: »

Thats what amazes me too, good quality chars or lims, which you struggle to finish at 30 months or under 400 kg killout are as dear as ever , why ?

http://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/30-homebred-bullocks/6377643

Like these. Biggest issue facing finishers is that lots of them have yards of feed and they have to convert that back to money. Most will have serious money tied up in Silage(both maize and Grass) beet, crimp etc. They now have to buy cattle to turn this back into money. Factory's have them by the short and curleys. The only cattle they want are those that are in spec and under 400kgs.

They are at present finishing cattle at a loss. It is not just bulls that big finishers were caught with they had yards of feed to finish same. Looking at the bullocks in the above add say they are what they say on the tin and you land in the yard at 1250 euro. Time is tight until mid late June when the prices traditionally drop. Say you feed and get 1.5kgs/day for 90 days they will kill 380kgs. We will assume costs of 3/day and 50 for miscellanous costs and 30 for interest so 350 euro. You will need 4.2/kg to break even. Ever 10c/kg more or less will yield a 38 euro profit or loss.

TBH I think most finishers are trying to convert feed back into money at present.

If Bob is reading I like his opinion.

lefthooker

mf240 wrote: »

This time two years ago factory prices started to rise.

Paddy farmer arrived at the calf mart soon afterwards and he out bid the exporters for all the dairy calves,and not content with that he even Brought in some more from the north and even a few from eastern Europe.

Then paddy went to the weanling sales and outbid the exporters once again.

Now there are two many cattle in the county and there is a waiting list to get cattle killed.it's quite simple really.

Now Paddy is getting his arse spanked and destroying the rest of us too. Lads who jump in and out of enterprises always miss the boat. Now I'm a calf to beef man and always finished our own stock, with sheds full of LM & BB. But this is new territory.

I take your point about there being too many cattle in the country but how can you have cattle booked in since last Tuesday for this coming Thursday and then have the plug pulled. It wasn't a last minute we'll try and fit ya in deal. Who have I been screwed over for?

Round Bale

mf240 wrote: »

This time two years ago factory prices started to rise.

Paddy farmer arrived at the calf mart soon afterwards and he out bid the exporters for all the dairy calves,and not content with that he even Brought in some more from the north and even a few from eastern Europe.

Then paddy went to the weanling sales and outbid the exporters once again.

Now there are two many cattle in the county and there is a waiting list to get cattle killed.it's quite simple really.

Bollox! Too many cattle my hole. If there was only one beef animal left standing, Larry would figure out a way to cut the value of it!

Farmer Pudsey

dharn wrote: »

Thats what amazes me too, good quality chars or lims, which you struggle to finish at 30 months or under 400 kg killout are as dear as ever , why ?

lefthooker wrote: »

Now Paddy is getting his arse spanked and destroying the rest of us too. Lads who jump in and out of enterprises always miss the boat. Now I'm a calf to beef man and always finished our own stock, with sheds full of LM & BB. But this is new territory.

I take your point about there being too many cattle in the country but how can you have cattle booked in since last Tuesday for this coming Thursday and then have the plug pulled. It wasn't a last minute we'll try and fit ya in deal. Who have I been screwed over for?

I rang about getting cattle in Monday of last week was told that it would be this week now it is pushed out to next week. Combination of reasons I expect the factory's are backing up cattle from now until as far into May as possible. What carcass weight do you expect the cattle to kill out at.

lefthooker

Usually 380 - 400+.
I remember last Spring when I was booking cattle in and after heaps of questions the "chap" in the cattle office said "sure you probably won't have anything over 400kgs". FUSE LIT.

How the f**k would you know what I have, do you think I'm sending ya half finished cattle. Told him I'm finished talking to you and I'll talk to the boss from now on.

Farmer Pudsey

lefthooker wrote: »

Usually 380 - 400+.
I remember last Spring when I was booking cattle in and after heaps of questions the "chap" in the cattle office said "sure you probably won't have anything over 400kgs". FUSE LIT.

How the f**k would you know what I have, do you think I'm sending ya half finished cattle. Told him I'm finished talking to you and I'll talk to the boss from now on.

At present if they have access to cattle killing 300-350-kgs these get preference yours are more than likly killing too heavy so they will sit on as long as possible.

The question for suckler farmers will it pay to keep a cow to produce an animal that kills 350kgs. I took a bit of a beating on bulls during Jan/Feb however I am glad they are gone now. Next year will be slow to finish during the winter. If Larry want to finish cattle himself he can however it will not be out of my shed unlike John Dillion.

Will not be allowing IFA stoppages either it every man for himself now.

lefthooker

Don't think I've seen a U grade animal kill under 400.
Surely more meat per carcass would be more profitable.

Farmer Pudsey

lefthooker wrote: »

Don't think I've seen a U grade animal kill under 400.
Surely more meat per carcass would be more profitable.

Every couple of weeks in the FJ or FI there is an article about cattle weights. Ideal animal for british supermarket spec is a O+toR= FS 3 killing 320kgs.

Cattle killing U have a big ar5e that a lot of round steak mince.

tanko

lefthooker wrote: »

Don't think I've seen a U grade animal kill under 400.
Surely more meat per carcass would be more profitable.

I killed two 18 month old 3/4 bred Lmx bulls last November who killed out U=2+ at 352kgs and 340kgs, making €4/kg. They weren't fully finished but I was fed up feeding them and needed their pen.

tanko

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Every couple of weeks in the FJ or FI there is an article about cattle weights. Ideal animal for british supermarket spec is a O+toR= FS 3 killing 320kgs.

Cattle killing U have a big ar5e that a lot of round steak mince.

Surely it's not possible to get continentalx cattle into FS 3 at such a low carcase weight?

TUBBY

tanko wrote: »

Surely it's not possible to get continentalx cattle into FS 3 at such a low carcase weight?

I would average 340-350kg dead weight with continental bullocks. Meal for last 6 weeks only. Hardly ever had as low as 2+ fat score and plenty of r+ and u.
no rangy sim type cattle on it though. Buttier cattle bought in as stores

epfff

tanko wrote: »

Surely it's not possible to get continentalx cattle into FS 3 at such a low carcase weight?

I have u3 bulls all the time @330-360kgs
Its no problem you just need to buy butty stock that the good farmers and experts will tell you on way out of Mart 'they are not great stock you should buy a bit better they would come into more money when you kill'

blue5000

lefthooker wrote: »

Now Paddy is getting his arse spanked and destroying the rest of us too. Lads who jump in and out of enterprises always miss the boat. Now I'm a calf to beef man and always finished our own stock, with sheds full of LM & BB. But this is new territory.

I take your point about there being too many cattle in the country but how can you have cattle booked in since last Tuesday for this coming Thursday and then have the plug pulled. It wasn't a last minute we'll try and fit ya in deal. Who have I been screwed over for?

Paddy is off again buying whitehead bull calves for 350, so if there will be anyone left doing hereford prime in 2 yrs time there will be more spanking done.

lefthooker wrote: »

Don't think I've seen a U grade animal kill under 400.
Surely more meat per carcass would be more profitable.

Have had a few aubrac x angus bulls kill U3, 355 kg dw. You would expect heavier carcasses to be more profitable for factories, it takes the same amount of time on the line to do a >400kg and a 320kg animal.

OP did slaney lose a big supermarket contract? I'm getting cattle killed 2 or 3 at a time as their birthday party approaches.

Farmer Pudsey

Lads do any of you read the articles in the Journal or Farming Indo about supermarket spec. Because alot of you seem to be caught up in a world of your own. Tou seem to want to produce what you want as opposed to what he market wants.

Yest there is more meat on a 400kgDW 'U' grade carcass. And even more on a E grade carcass. There is obly one issue nobody wants it. Nobody wants a lump of meat off the ar5e of a 450kg 'U' bullock (or for that matter 380kg) to roast, the striploins are too large and that makes them too expensive.

People want 2 steaks for 10 euro, 4 pork chops for a 5 euro, 500grams of mince for 4 euro. You no longer see round steak mince as supermarkets not mince the lower quality meat (they trim the fat) as very few buy stewing beef. They want chickens for a fiver, two salmon darns for 5 euro. We are competing against this with beef nobody is going to accept two striploins for 20 euro or two paper thin one crushed into a tray for 10 euro.

Because of super market spec cattle killing weights will have to drop. Forget about what you would like to happen rather think about what will happen. The biggest issue I see is the abandonment of Bull beef. This will come back to bite the industry in the nuts over the next few years.

I think that the factory's will try to force the suckler industry to finish this progney at under 16 months at 350kgs. I question the viability of this. Also a huge gap is going to be opened from December to february with the absence of dairy bred bulls. Loads of finishers will exit the market as the profitable sections and time are being removed.

onyerbikepat

Farmer Pudsey
What you are saying is true, but I think at the moment it's more down to supply and demand. There are simply too many cattle waiting to get into the factories now.
Have you ever sold fat suckler cows in June/July when cattle are scarce. The factory agents are fighting over them at the ringside.

You have to wonder how many will decide to get into dairying on the back of all this?

F.D

is the problem not bull beef in the first place, if you have steers finishing off grass are they not going to come near the target weight you talk about and will have the fat score to suit, i know its a slower system but its easier on the pocket, and if you get penalised for the wrong confirmation at least your not out of pocket as much as the intensive system, eg over weight not the right fat score etc

Round Bale

epfff wrote: »

I have u3 bulls all the time @330-360kgs
Its no problem you just need to buy butty stock that the good farmers and experts will tell you on way out of Mart 'they are not great stock you should buy a bit better they would come into more money when you kill'

Are we now going to need ICBF to create "Buttiness Index", as well as Maternal and Terminal Indices, in order to further guide bull breeding stock selection into the future:eek: