I can haz general discussion? 2!!

We could do it once a year at this time and donate the gate to charity, instead of RAG WEEK we call it SLAG WEEK, patent pending.

Hey there! Long time boards lurker, first time poster. I decided to post on this because I have seen the arguments descend into silly, personal jibes at people for their opinions and word being totally taken out if context and being publically called out for things they didn't say.
It saddens me, but basically my friends can't have an actual logical debate about this so I'd rather not have them know it's me.

I have resisted in joining the 'strippergate' debate but have been watching it closely. I decided to post know after seeing calls for investigations, resignations without people having all the facts, which I find a bit unfair.

The thing we have yet to know if where the blame lies.
1. The stripper company market as 'exotic dancers'. No one knew how bad it would get. Everyone was a but shocked, was over quickly, no time to stop it.
2. Mal's friends knew what they were doing and didn't inform anyone else. Again, exec knew nothing till it happened, which from what I've heard was 5 mins of the show.
3. Mal knew and lied to the exec, bar and SU in general
4. Everyone in the Exec knew, decided to play it down by advertising dancers and are basically idiots who don't deserve their job.

Obviously, if it is 3 or 4, investigations, resignations etc may be reasonable. While I don't feel it is possible for everyone to be welcom int eh bar all the time, it is not a place for full blown strippers.

However, if it's 1 or 2, I find it hard to blame the current exec, even if SU money was used. These are all people who were students till a year or two ago. They have seen multiple events featuring dancers, jelly wrestling etc take part and be generally popular. They are following a norm.

I'm not saying it's right but call for a witch hunt on this particular exec is unfair.
I think this is where personal opinions of the people like Mal have started coming into it. I remember general outrage at jelly wrestling events etc in the past, but I don't ever remember people saying:
"Broni is SEC and organises events, therefore he is responsible for this objectification. Get him!"
I believe this events are an issue but instead of shouting for investigations and putting people on the defensive, why not work with them?
Make meetings, invite the exec to a discussion and speak peer to peer about why these events should be stopped. Help come up with alternatives. This way, rather than getting rid of one group this year, it might actually change something for the future. If current 1st years see none of these events, then when they run the place they won't hold them.

We won't know the answer until at least Wednesday so until then I'm going for the innocent till proven guilty approach

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I still am yet to hear a valid reason why what happened was a problem

The only reason I have heard is that people don't think their student contribution should be paying for it. But and body could say that, I am strongly dislike indie music and any music not produced by a major label. Yet I put up with the constant indie bands that are in the SU because there needs to be a balance of everybody's interests. What happened was a valid and legal form of entertainment. Even if we assume that the SU paid for it there was nothing done wrong.

It appears that some people want to restrict these women's freedom to provide the entertainment that they have chosen as a career and restrict legal forms of entertainment because they are not interested in them or dislike them.

We have a student in the university whom appeared naked on TV3 and was seen by several hundred thousand people, is he demeaning to men? No, he is another person not me, why would his choices reflect on me. Similarly are strippers demeaning to women, no because they do not reflect all women.

WhyDo IEven wrote: »

My problem is with on what level it was falsely advertised. If the dancers/ students who booked/SU it knew it would be an R rated stripper show, rather than some PG13 raunchy dancing and didn't inform everyone, that is what I find bad.
Though I do think stripping should be reserved for private functions/strip clubs if that's your thing, but that's just my opinion

There are a few people events have to be cleared by, one of those people is the manager of the bar, who at the time must have agreed to the event. When these women took their clothes off it was a very short time before it was stopped, the performance lasted 15mins and for nearly all of that they were at least partially clothed. As soon as the relevant staff were informed the women were asked to stop/leave. It seems highly unlikely that it could have been something that was planned on an SU level. The dancers may have been planned by the SU it was certainly not planned that they would strip, all SU staff and reps were clearly shocked at what happened.

All patrons at the event were at a minimum 18 or at least should have been, if there was anyone younger there it was not the fault of the SU.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/25-children-taken-to-hospital-after-maynooth-pool-incident-1.1720427

WhyDo IEven wrote: »

Do you know the first this for a fact? Because if you don't you're jumping to the same conclusions as those saying they must have known (which is what I said I had a problem with in my initial post)

The fact they were all 18 has no bearing on the fact they were unaware of what was going to happen at the event. 15 or 50 if you are told one thing will be happening and something other than that happens, it's not right

You mentioned it being r rated, I was pointing out that it was age appropriate.

I know a few things, it could not have been officially planned by the SU as it wouldn't have been allowed by the people it has to be approved by. It is possible that it was planned by whoever was ordering the dancers but there was an SU wide thing where everyone knew it was going to happen. At a minimum the majority of the people that are part of the process for organising events were unaware of what would happen.

Bar security also would have also been involved, there is no chance it was an SU planned event, I can't answer for individuals though.

GarIT wrote: »

I know a few things, it could not have been officially planned by the SU as it wouldn't have been allowed by the people it has to be approved by. At a minimum the majority of the people that are part of the process for organising events were unaware of what would happen.

What was planned officially and what was known are two different things. Everyone on the exec could have potentially know and lied to the bar,security etc. Similarly no one may have known.

This goes back, again, to my initial point of people coming up with their own conclusions.
Saying they all knew nothing and it isn't their fault is as bas as saying they are totally to blame and calling for resignations if we don't know for sure who knew what. Maybe you do know for sure (as in actually spoke to the people involved), you haven't said. I certainly don't, hence, I won't defend anyone any more than I will condemn them

My problem isn't about it being an SU event. People are calling for investigations/resignations. If they knew and mislead the rest of the SU it may be somewhat valid. If they didn't know they have done no worse than any other exec with regards to events that may objectify women. We don't know hence these calls are premature. That is all

GarIT wrote: »

I thought it was, my mistake. I don't see how women are objectified, they are maybe made to seem as desirable but to objectify women would be to say they should not be treated as people. Without female strippers this wouldn't have been possible. Nothing has been done wrong on women.

I wasn't saying they were one way or another. Again, my point was relating to people calling for an investigation saying they the SU was responsible for objectifying women. This is an old argument, brought up when there is jelly wrestling, dancers, pole dancing etc. In my initial post I called for people to work together and change the culture if they don't like it, not attack the current exec for it

People's problem with Mal is that he gives off the persona of being no work and all play. Which IMO can be positive for an events organiser.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0311/601543-swimming-pool/

What?

Hey look! Kellief an Alt_Grrrr have brought actual news!

Alt_Grrr wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0311/601543-swimming-pool/

What?

I apologise for going off the stripper discussion,
but I thought that toxic gases and children inhaling them might be bit more important.