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Charlatan "girl against flouride" finally exposed

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Comments

  • #242
    ClovenHoof
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    jh79 wrote: »
    She has on facebook. She is dangerous plenty of gullible people out there if they believe her crap on fluoride god knows what else they could be taken in by.


    I was told a person on Facebook claimed they saw a cow being blown into the sky by the wind.

    Without a screen shot of her saying this on Facebook. You are just a Conspiracy Theorist yourself.

    If you want to see dangerous, gullible people damaging the country look no further than the average Irish FF, FG, Lab, SF voter.


  • #243
    The_Captain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭The_Captain


    Fúcks sake, if I had known that mixing castor oil and urine caused cancer, I wouldn't have drank so much of it


  • #244
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    I was told a person on Facebook claimed they saw a cow being blown into the sky by the wind.

    Without a screen shot of her saying this on Facebook. You are just a Conspiracy Theorist yourself.

    If you want to see dangerous, gullible people damaging the country look no further than the average Irish FF, FG, Lab, SF voter.

    Her opinions on fluoride are crazy enough for me and people believe those not hard to imagine she has other crazy ideas . She is "qualified" in some crazy alt medicine nonsense too so she fits the stereotype.


  • #245
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    She never said anything like this from what I've read? Why the hatred? All she wants is for Fluoride to be a topical treatment like it is in most of Europe and not ingested.

    How is this so appalling to you?

    1. In many European countries it is added to food, not water.

    2. What is appalling to me is that if the campaign is successful -and I can only see this happening on the abstract, ethical, argument of fluoridation being a medication rather than a nutritional additive - those flibbertibbets of woo will think that they have a handle on reality and we'll live in a land of dreamcatchers and illness.


  • #246
    seano12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 88 ✭✭seano12


    http://www.infowars.com/harvard-study-fluoride-lowers-childrens-intelligence-by-7-iq-points/


    Wake Up

    The Nazis used fluoride in the concentration camps too

    Google Dental fluorosis

    fluorosilicic acid is toxic waste


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  • #247
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    I was told a person on Facebook claimed they saw a cow being blown into the sky by the wind.

    Without a screen shot of her saying this on Facebook. You are just a Conspiracy Theorist yourself.

    If you want to see dangerous, gullible people damaging the country look no further than the average Irish FF, FG, Lab, SF voter.

    Luke Flanagan actually had to disassociate himself from her because of some of their more bizarre statement.


  • #248
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »
    From the indo today ->

    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/argument-for-fluoridation-doesnt-hold-water-30033931.html

    Heavily editorialised opinion piece

    It simply does what I demonstrated earlier in this thread using the same techniques

    As another poster pointed out, dosage is absolute key

    For example, lack of sodium chloride and you die, too much and you die

    Correct dosage of sunlight.. beneficial.. higher dosage of sunlight, dangerous

    There are so many examples of this but fundamentally, it seems, that some simply cannot understand this concept and cling to the dogmatic belief that "poison is poison"

    Which bears repeating, if you drink non-fluoridated water - it's still fluoridated naturally!.. in some cases so high that it's dangerous because of...

    Dosage.


  • #249
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    The report deals with levels of flouride significantly higher than found in flouridated domestic water systems:
    They are not just "significantly higher", in the EU they are illegal.


  • #250
    ClovenHoof
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    Luke Flanagan actually had to disassociate himself from her because of some of their more bizarre statement.

    Do you have a link for his dissociation from her?


  • #251
    Lefticus Loonaticus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Lefticus Loonaticus


    Muise... wrote: »
    1. In many European countries it is added to food, not water.

    In many(if not all!) european countries the idea of forcing medication on people through tap water would be considered a fascist policy. The utter disrespect and contempt held in this country for the anti-fluoride campaign is doing more to increase the resistance than the campaign itself!

    How dare irish people have their own opinions!


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  • #252
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »
    In many(if not all!) european countries the idea of forcing medication on people through tap water would be considered a fascist policy. The utter disrespect and contempt held in this country for the anti-fluoride campaign is doing more to increase the resistance than the campaign itself!

    How dare irish people have their own opinions!

    Chemistry does not give a fcuk about opinions.


  • #253
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Do you have a link for his dissociation from her?

    Here you go.
    https://twitter.com/lukeming/status/413611859007512576


  • #254
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »
    From the indo today ->

    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/argument-for-fluoridation-doesnt-hold-water-30033931.html
    ...

    (Edit; Hmmm, if the indo are hiring gullible and neurotic people to write mad crazy articles to whip up public hysteria i might drop in a CV.)
    Yes they are , and yes you should.

    Try the Daily Mail too. They've had the Irish edition campaigning for vaccinating schoolgirls when the UK edition was campaigning against it.

    I take it you've seen when Time/Newsweek carried the same picture of OJ Simpson ? Even reputable journals distort facts to peruse sales.


    That whole article smacks of plagiarism because all the "facts" have been parroted from anti-flouride sites without attribution.


  • #255
    Lefticus Loonaticus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Lefticus Loonaticus


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

    Even reputable journals distort facts to peruse sales.

    Never a truer word said.


  • #256
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    jh79 wrote: »
    She has on facebook. She is dangerous plenty of gullible people out there if they believe her crap on fluoride god knows what else they could be taken in by.
    Thankfully mobile phone hysteria has died down and I think "dirty electricity" is going away.

    But Homoeopathy (ie. placebo effect ) and vaccination are still going strong. Fear of pylons and wind turbines is there now. Fear of incinerators is still there in areas where toxic emissions on bonfire night completely dwarf yearly emissions from incinerators.

    It's almost a religion, complete with mantras and faith in the face of evidence.


    And placebos work even when you tell people they are cornflour placebos.


  • #257
    ClovenHoof
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    Why are these atheists not trying to overturn the stupid 2009 Blasphemy Law with the same level of vitriol as they attack issues like this?


  • #258
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Thankfully mobile phone hysteria has died down and I think "dirty electricity" is going away.

    But Homoeopathy (ie. placebo effect ) and vaccination are still going strong. Fear of pylons and wind turbines is there now. Fear of incinerators is still there in areas where toxic emissions on bonfire night completely dwarf yearly emissions from incinerators.

    It's almost a religion, complete with mantras and faith in the face of evidence.


    And placebos work even when you tell people they are cornflour placebos.

    Fear of pylons, wind turbines and incinerators could be causing a sort of nocebo effect - the idea that they are causing harm causes harm in susceptible people.

    It pretty much is a religion, for people who give out yards about the religion they grew up in, but seek the comfort of myths and sanctimony.


  • #259
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Filibuster wrote: »
    Legal limits don't mean a thing in a mass medication program like flouridation. One person in this county could drink 8litres of flouridated tap water a day while their neighbour drinks none.
    8 litres ?

    Just 6 litres can be fatal.
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill/
    Earlier this year, a 28-year-old California woman died after competing in a radio station's on-air water-drinking contest. After downing some six liters of water in three hours in the "Hold Your Wee for a Wii" (Nintendo game console) contest, Jennifer Strange vomited, went home with a splitting headache, and died from so-called water intoxication.

    What legal limit should we set for water since we have actual hard evidence that overconsumption is dangerous ?


  • #260
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »
    In many(if not all!) european countries the idea of forcing medication on people through tap water would be considered a fascist policy. The utter disrespect and contempt held in this country for the anti-fluoride campaign is doing more to increase the resistance than the campaign itself!
    That's why they fluoridate the salt instead. In some places they fluoridate milk for school children.

    There's a lot of dis-information (ie. blatant lies) about how not having fluoride in Norn Iron hasn't changed things.
    http://www.dhsspsni.gov.uk/2007_06_25_ohs_full_7.0.pdf
    Executive Summary
    The oral health of Northern Ireland’s population is the worst in the United Kingdom
    and this has been the case for many years. Over the decades the oral health of our
    society has improved but the gains we have experienced have been much less than
    those seen by our neighbours. The Republic of Ireland, which once had worse
    children’s dental health than Northern Ireland now, thanks to water fluoridation,
    boasts the lowest tooth decay levels in Europe.
    ...
    The Republic of Ireland began fluoridating public water supplies in 1964 and now
    more than 71% of the population receives fluoridated water. Prior to fluoridation
    commencing in 1964, dental surveys were undertaken in Northern Ireland and the
    Republic of Ireland. They showed that decay levels were higher in the South of
    Ireland among 5-year-old children (figure 5). Similar surveys undertaken in 2002
    found that, in fluoridated areas decay levels had dropped to almost half those found
    in Northern Ireland were there is no water fluoridation (28) .


  • #261
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Why are these atheists not trying to overturn the stupid 2009 Blasphemy Law with the same level of vitriol as they attack issues like this?

    Because blasphemy is a victimless crime?

    :D


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  • #262
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Has Declan Waugh submitted his study for peer review yet, y'know, in the way that actual science is usually done?

    If he hasn't or is unwilling to, his "analysis" may be regarded as being less reputable in terms of scientific rigour than the claims of Labaratoires Garnier or L'oreal.


  • #263
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    Banned by the eu in 2006??

    Surely not.

    The dept of water buying it from the black market? Sneaky divils.

    The chlorine is an excellent argument.

    ITS A LETHAL CHEMICAL USED IN CHEMICAL WARFARE AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    There are literally the same two or 3 points repeated over and over by the anti-flouride brigade. And none of them stand up to any scrutiny.


  • #264
    Lefticus Loonaticus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Lefticus Loonaticus


    Robbo wrote: »
    Has Declan Waugh submitted his study for peer review yet, y'know, in the way that actual science is usually done?

    If he hasn't or is unwilling to, his "analysis" may be regarded as being less reputable in terms of scientific rigour than the claims of Labaratoires Garnier or L'oreal.

    Declan Waugh's research is held in high esteem internationally. In Canada it caused four cities to cease water fluoridation immediately. Yet, some of you people just wont desist from trying to character assassinate him.

    Me thinks the real reason behind all this huff and bluster is the very obvious reality that he is showing up the Irish establishments fluoridation policy and all who support it as the biggest bunch of incompetent nitwits on the face of the planet. Not to mention being criminally complicit in this scandal by knowingly ignoring evidence to the contrary.

    Anti-fluoride people are not against science. Those who attack Waugh with such vitriol like the above quoted poster are the ones who are bringing science into disrepute (whatever they are trying to achieve, i havent a clue. Trying to protect their own positions of authority on the subject perhaps?).

    Ill let Shane Ross have a go at the issue in a more parliamentary manner ->



  • #265
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    I'd like you to research the idea yourself. Read a few studies. From both sides.

    The evidence is so glaringly clear that it's good for your teeth.


  • #266
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Waugh avoids the peer review process for a good reason, his ridiculous claims are not supported by the research he cites.


  • #267
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,447 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Facts which have arisen from a Hotpress interview? Is this meant to be some kind of joke. Perhaps the rise in the rate of cardiovascular diseases could be due to the increase in sedimentary lifestyles, increased consumption of fast foods, etc but Shane Ross makes it look like fluoridation is to blame. I couldn't watch more than a few minutes of that tripe so, if I have missed anything pertinent which I doubt, please let me know.
    Also, the fact that a search of "Declan Waugh" returns 0 results in a pubmed search tells me everything I need to know.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #268
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »
    Declan Waugh's research is held in high esteem internationally. In Canada it caused four cities to cease water fluoridation immediately. Yet, some of you people just wont desist from trying to character assassinate him.
    Links plz, with quotes from those tying Waugh's "research" to their position.
    Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »
    Me thinks the real reason behind all this huff and bluster is the very obvious reality that he is showing up the Irish establishments fluoridation policy and all who support it as the biggest bunch of incompetent nitwits on the face of the planet. Not to mention being criminally complicit in this scandal by knowingly ignoring evidence to the contrary.

    Anti-fluoride people are not against science. Those who attack Waugh with such vitriol like the above quoted poster are the ones who are bringing science into disrepute (whatever they are trying to achieve, i havent a clue. Trying to protect their own positions of authority on the subject perhaps?).

    Ill let Shane Ross have a go at the issue in a more parliamentary manner ->

    Bringing science into disrepute is self publishing studies outside of your field of expertise and refusing to have them peer reviewed. Bringing science into disrepute is ignoring the basis tenets of dosimetry if it doesn't fit your pre-conceived results. Bringing science into disrepute is pretending to be behind a cause whilst promoting your own particular alternative health business. Bringing science into disrepute is organising anti-flouride sentiment in a village and then selling people on your own filtration devices for €700 a pop lest those who are left behind be ostracised.


  • #269
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    I mentioned castor oil to say I've never heard anything about it. Did you read my post?
    Talk about twisting information.....


  • #270
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    I imagine that the fluoride that occurs naturally in water is NATURAL no? I believe that this is her point, that UNNATURALLY adding something to our water is a bad idea. I personally don't have any faith in the government figuring its way out of a paper bag, not to mind figuring the safe level of anything..


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  • #271
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    It would make you wonder what their agenda is to completely ignore valid points from people who, unless I am mistaken and this is not a DEMOCRACY, are entitled to have an opinion.......


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