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Becoming a Trader in Dublin

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    #92
    arrowloopboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭arrowloopboy


    ixus wrote: »
    1. Yes.
    2. None of your business
    3. Everything
    4. Yes
    5.See 2
    6. See 2

    The point you're missing is this conversation is not a private one between 3/4 people. There are plenty of my mates on Boards.ie who know who I am. I don't discuss what I earn with anybody. Why would I with you?

    That's the end of that discussion as far as I'm concerned. It is not what the thread is about.

    I don't care what you earn,i didn't ask you that ,re read my post.
    I presume the bankroll you trade isn't yours,so its irrelevant .
    you asked me to ask questions,i did,you coped out ,end of discussion,happy trading.


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    #93
    odd1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭odd1


    any of ye care to share interview stories

    idu

    like what?


    like, what questions were you asked?
    was it friendly/hostile?
    did you have to do an exam?
    any crazy moments?

    or anything else ye would care to add;)


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    #94
    Idu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭Idu


    I only interviewed with Positive and it was 7 years ago so no doubt it's changed since then but the interview was friendly and quite relaxed. They didn't ask me anything too complicated or any tough maths questions it was more of a getting to know you type interview. In those days they hired people with certain mental attributes over people with amazing educational achievements. They were looking for high achievers in any field and people who showed a competitive streak. That was changing though but I don't know the specifics of their interview anymore. I think Positive do a simple exam before their interview and we do in Myriad too but it's extremely straight forward.

    I've been told by other guys I've worked with that Geneva did(or do) a math based interview over the phone and I think SIG is the same. I'd imagine SIG's interview to be much more in line with what you would imagine an Investment Banks to be.

    Can't remember any crazy moments from my own interview but from ones I've done the people who stand out are people who had no idea about trading or prop trading specifically. I would imagine the number 1 thing these companies still want is people who are passionate about trading.

    If I was offering someone tips going into an interview with Positive, Myriad or Geneva I would say it's important to show a real passion for trading and back it up. Just saying it won't cut it. Also this is quite obvious but relax. More so than most jobs previous academic skills aren't as transferable so the interview is more about you as a person than what you know. I know from interviews I've done that I generally lean towards people who I'd like to sit beside rather than someone with degrees to burn.

    Good luck in your search!


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    #95
    syntheticjunk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭syntheticjunk


    Idu,

    looks like most of trainees won't succeed. What is a main obstacle to become full time trader?


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    #96
    Idu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭Idu


    What prop houses will teach you is how not to lose money and manage your risk so the thing that holds most trainees back is just their own personality or attitude to risk. Some people, regardless of how hard they work or how smart they are, just can't pull the trigger on trades or handle the downside that inevitably comes with trading for a living. There's no hard and fast rule as to what % of a class will be successful


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    #97
    arrowloopboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭arrowloopboy


    Idu wrote: »
    What prop houses will teach you is how not to lose money and manage your risk so the thing that holds most trainees back is just their own personality or attitude to risk. Some people, regardless of how hard they work or how smart they are, just can't pull the trigger on trades or handle the downside that inevitably comes with trading for a living. There's no hard and fast rule as to what % of a class will be successful

    I'm of the opinion that the key to succeeding as a trader is mostly down to psychology ,is this something a lot of wannabe traders overlook.
    Lets face it,if your of average intelligence ,its possible with a bit of research ,to put a system together with a positive expectancy,sticking to it and trading it like you designed it,is where most might fall down.

    Whats your take on this ?


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    #98
    Idu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭Idu


    I'd agree with that. Some people just can't handle the swings of trading or even the simplest things like cutting losing trades. You can see evidence of that in so many of the threads on here. The best traders accept bad trades as part and parcel of the job. The reason most people aren't as profitable as they could be is because they have their money sitting in bad investments waiting for it to turn back into profit rather than accepting it, moving on and finding a better opportunity. Nobody can be right 100% of the time so the sooner people realise that the more successful they'll be


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    #99
    freeze4real
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭freeze4real


    What's salary bracket for junior traders ?

    Would junior traders have to allocate a certain percentage of their income to towards certain costs ?

    What kind is involved in the 2nd stage ? Is it a general knowledge test about the financial markets or more arithmetic ?


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    #100
    Idu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭Idu


    freeze4real wrote: »
    What's salary bracket for junior traders ? Positive and Myriad don't pay a salary. You get a % of what you earn. Since most junior traders don't make anything at the start they get a small stipend of around €750 a month which is just to help out. It's certainly not enough to live well on but plenty of people have managed it before

    Would junior traders have to allocate a certain percentage of their income to towards certain costs ? There are costs every month for market access, front end software etc. These are taken pre split and then the remainder(if any) is available to be taken as a salary

    What kind is involved in the 2nd stage ? Is it a general knowledge test about the financial markets or more arithmetic ? Second interview is quite similar to the first one but probably a little more market focused. In Myriad the maths test is before the 2nd interview. Generally in your second interview you will meet different people from the 1st one so that as many people as possible get to meet you. As I said before they're hiring the person not a list of achievements

    Answered your questions in bold above. I would say to anyone who was applying for positions in the past or in the future that even if you don't get an interview 1st time around or you don't make the cut in the interviews don't let that discourage you from applying elsewhere or even reapplying the next time around. The hiring process is quite fickle and the judgements are best guesses the most of the time. IMO there is no one thing that can tell you who will be a success so don't be discouraged by rejection and take it as a sign that you're not qualified.


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    #101
    freeze4real
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭freeze4real


    Many thanks for the detailed reply Idu.

    Ixus can you answer the above for Geneva trading.


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    #102
    odd1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭odd1


    syntheticjunk wrote: »
    Idu,

    looks like most of trainees won't succeed. What is a main obstacle to become full time trader?

    Yourself


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    #103
    odd1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭odd1


    Idu wrote: »
    I only interviewed with Positive and it was 7 years ago so no doubt it's changed since then but the interview was friendly and quite relaxed. They didn't ask me anything too complicated or any tough maths questions it was more of a getting to know you type interview. In those days they hired people with certain mental attributes over people with amazing educational achievements. They were looking for high achievers in any field and people who showed a competitive streak. That was changing though but I don't know the specifics of their interview anymore. I think Positive do a simple exam before their interview and we do in Myriad too but it's extremely straight forward.

    I've been told by other guys I've worked with that Geneva did(or do) a math based interview over the phone and I think SIG is the same. I'd imagine SIG's interview to be much more in line with what you would imagine an Investment Banks to be.

    Can't remember any crazy moments from my own interview but from ones I've done the people who stand out are people who had no idea about trading or prop trading specifically. I would imagine the number 1 thing these companies still want is people who are passionate about trading.

    If I was offering someone tips going into an interview with Positive, Myriad or Geneva I would say it's important to show a real passion for trading and back it up. Just saying it won't cut it. Also this is quite obvious but relax. More so than most jobs previous academic skills aren't as transferable so the interview is more about you as a person than what you know. I know from interviews I've done that I generally lean towards people who I'd like to sit beside rather than someone with degrees to burn.

    Good luck in your search!

    Thanks idu

    I will quit my job in the next two months, to go work for a prop firm.

    I have yet to pick which one i will work for.

    come and get me guys!!!:D


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    #104
    arrowloopboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭arrowloopboy


    odd1 wrote: »
    Yourself

    That's obvious and 100% true.


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    #105
    mono627
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭mono627


    arrowloopboy wrote: »
    Q1. Are you a senior trader. Yes
    Q2 Whats your allocated bankroll. Margin of 40k
    Q3 What do you trade Equities, energies, currencies, fixed income, metals, ags and softs
    Q4 Is your trading completely dicscresioinary No I run some automated strategies
    Q5 Whats your average return over the past 5 yrs. I've only been trading 3 years and it has been increasing significantly every year.
    Q6 whats your average r/r % Every trade I take can be different. I don't have a specific r/r I look for.

    See above.


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    #106
    mono627
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭mono627


    arrowloopboy wrote: »
    That's obvious and 100% true.

    Might not be that obvious, I've heard lads blame everything else but themselves for not succeeding.


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    #107
    mono627
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭mono627


    daheff wrote: »
    Was this question asked to me? If so, I'm basing my experience on quite a number years working for one of the above mentioned companies


    I've never seen a trader given free rein to do whatever they wanted. They would have basic trading strategies to work around (which makes sense that you dont have multiple traders jumping on each others toes)


    That's fine if that's the case for wherever you work but it's not the case for the majority of prop houses in Dublin or London.


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    #108
    mono627
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭mono627


    arrowloopboy wrote: »
    I don't care what you earn,i didn't ask you that ,re read my post.
    I presume the bankroll you trade isn't yours,so its irrelevant.
    you asked me to ask questions,i did,you coped out ,end of discussion,happy trading.

    Stop making assumptions that aren't true. The "bankroll" we trade is in the form of margin and I've already mentioned that most senior traders will have some form of their money down as reserve.


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    #109
    mono627
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭mono627


    arrowloopboy wrote: »
    I'm of the opinion that the key to succeeding as a trader is mostly down to psychology ,is this something a lot of wannabe traders overlook.
    Lets face it,if your of average intelligence ,its possible with a bit of research ,to put a system together with a positive expectancy,sticking to it and trading it like you designed it,is where most might fall down.

    Whats your take on this ?

    This is true to a certain degree. A lot of people I've come across just don't have the discipline (either to stick to their plan or cut their losers).


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    #110
    mono627
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭mono627


    freeze4real wrote: »
    Many thanks for the detailed reply Idu.

    Ixus can you answer the above for Geneva trading.

    It's the same for Geneva and Tower. A lot of the prop houses in Dublin have similar business models and similar training programs.


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    #111
    arrowloopboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭arrowloopboy


    mono627 wrote: »
    Stop making assumptions that aren't true. The "bankroll" we trade is in the form of margin and I've already mentioned that most senior traders will have some form of their money down as reserve.

    What,a few % ?


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    #112
    mono627
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭mono627


    arrowloopboy wrote: »
    What,a few % ?

    I've already answered this for myself.

    Each trader will have different amounts depending on the size they trade and depending on what stage they're at in their career.


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    #113
    arrowloopboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭arrowloopboy


    mono627 wrote: »
    I've already answered this for myself.

    Each trader will have different amounts depending on the size they trade and depending on what stage they're at in their career.

    Makes sense ,if it were my firm ,I'd make it mandatory for my traders to have a reasonable amount of their own flesh in the game:D.

    Is that a normal margin (40k)for a trader that's been trading for 3yrs ?


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    #114
    mono627
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭mono627


    arrowloopboy wrote: »
    Makes sense ,if it were my firm ,I'd make it mandatory for my traders to have a reasonable amount of their own flesh in the game:D.

    Is that a normal margin (40k)for a trader that's been trading for 3yrs ?

    No that would be on the high side.

    Depends on the trader and depends on the company.


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    #115
    arrowloopboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭arrowloopboy


    mono627 wrote: »
    No that would be on the high side.

    Depends on the trader and depends on the company.

    Is that per trade ?


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    #116
    freeze4real
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭freeze4real


    What's the working hours like ? Is it fixed or flexible for GT, myriad and PE ?


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    #117
    ixus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭ixus


    freeze4real wrote: »
    What's the working hours like ? Is it fixed or flexible for GT, myriad and PE ?

    I'm kind of surprised you're asking this question. The very first post describes a typical day. It's not rigid to an individual trader but that's where thee opportunity lies. Idu has gone into more detail recently in the thread. I suggest you reread this thread.


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    #118
    ixus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭ixus


    arrowloopboy wrote: »
    Is that per trade ?

    No. It's similar to the Bluecrest piece in Market Wizards. You want to hold a reserve so you can trade greater size or more products. It's just backup for both parties incase you have a large draw at any stage.


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    #119
    freeze4real
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭freeze4real


    ixus wrote: »
    I'm kind of surprised you're asking this question. The very first post describes a typical day. It's not rigid to an individual trader but that's where thee opportunity lies. Idu has gone into more detail recently in the thread. I suggest you reread this thread.

    TBH I forgot about the first page.

    A trader told me the hours he works and it was odd so just wanted another to compare it with another.


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    #120
    OttoPilot
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭OttoPilot


    Can anyone recommend some good textbooks related to fundamental analysis and trading in general? What did current traders read while training and what are you reading nowadays? Thanks


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    #121
    odd1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭odd1


    OttoPilot wrote: »
    Can anyone recommend some good textbooks related to fundamental analysis and trading in general? What did current traders read while training and what are you reading nowadays? Thanks

    go to the sticky at the top of investment and markets page titled its probably been asked before.

    click on useful websites and books.

    its a good sticky with lots of information to point you in the right direction.


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