Becoming a Trader in Dublin

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Maybe it is,but set hours and answering to someone else ,whilst only receiving a small % of the profits wouldn't appeal to me.
Would you not be better gathering up 100k and and doing it for yourself ?

You just described any employee in a business there. The trade off for lower wages is less risk (none really if you choose not to invest your own money) whereas you could lose 100k of your own money if you do it yourself.

mono627 wrote: »

I do trade my own account.

I also went through one of these training programmes to learn my trade. You forget that everyone starts somewhere and these training programmes give you the platform to learn to trade. Not everyone is in a position to put down the margin required to trade leveraged products.

True,the training programme you went through,did it deal with the dynamics of trading as a whole ,or was it specific to a niche area according to which ever firm you got in with.
Explain the process you went through,what you learned ,and what instruments you learned about,if you wouldn't mind.

Thanks,

Arrow

mono627 wrote: »

Without sounding like a d*ck I'd prefer not to say, I'm not sure they'd appreciate the training programme being discussed in detail.

What I will say is that it was pretty comprehensive and a lot of senior traders were quite happy to give their time to help along the way.

In the end I think everyone finds their own way in the markets to a certain degree and it certainly seemed that the ones who put the work/hours in had the best results.

Oh,so your involved with a new group of Turtles,is Richard Dennis hidden away somewhere up there in the big smoke.
No offence,but that's pretty useless.Thanks anyway.

odd1 wrote: »

How bout yourself arrow? How did you learn

Van Tharpe,Livermore,Michael Platt,Simon Thompson,Investors Chronicle,The Motley Fool and 20 grand oh and most importantly Trading in the zone,if you havn't read it ,read it.
I'm a 1 trick pony,FTSE350.for now.

ixus wrote: »

How exactly would an individual go about building a 100K cash pile they can afford to risk trading? Working for yourself, doing random hours? Sure if you could build that much to risk trading, why not just do that job? How long would it take to build that cash pile? Days, weeks, months,years?

I'll add to Odd1's question:

How did you learn to trade?
How long did it take?
How long did it take you to build up such a large cash pile that you could risk and not have it affect you financially?

Personally, I believe that companies I mentioned above provide a cheaper barrier to entry, with less personal risk and more educational guidance than you currently suggest. The option is always there to become independent once you've found your feet.

This is a pass time for me lads,but ,the more I practice the luckier I'm becoming.


The companies you mentioned also own you,and your time,if I wasn't successful business owner,the above might intrest me.

I'm still learning,i'm 35 and have been studying markets for 5 yrs,as a pastime.

mono627 wrote: »

You haven't a clue.

Have I not ? ,do you not have to turn up for work at a certain time,is your performance not been consistently monitored ,can you stay at home if you don't feel like turning in today,can you go on a holiday at the drop of a hat ?
Explain yourself

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Have I not ? ,do you not have to turn up for work at a certain time,is your performance not been consistently monitored ,can you stay at home if you don't feel like turning in today,can you go on a holiday at the drop of a hat ?
Explain yourself

What Idu said.

odd1 wrote: »

Mono how long. We're you trading with prop firm, before you traded your own account?
Did it take you long to find your own edge

Tia

Little over two years I think.

No we hit the ground running pretty quickly. We were trading live within ten weeks. Everyone develops at their own pace and each class is different.

Idu wrote: »

No, yes, yes, yes.

Working for a prop firm is one of the most independent jobs there is

I would 100% disagree with this. Just because its a prop firm doesnt mean its free rein to do what you want.

Prop firms have specific trading strategies they trade. Traders would work within the strategy limits. They may have some decision making ability or they may have specifics they have to stick to.


Can you elaborate on why you think it is a most independent job?

Idu wrote: »

What are you basing your opinions on? I've never heard of a prop firm that operates like that(though I'm sure there are some). Most prop firms leave their senior traders to come and go as they please and to trade in whatever manner they see fit

I wasn't asking about senior traders,what % of traders in said firms are senior,and are the liberties that were outlined afforded to everyone that trade for said firms ?
How long or successful do you have to be with said firms before you become a senior trader ?

Idu wrote: »

Most firms would have a good core of senior traders, some junior traders and possibly some trainees. The liberties are afforded to everyone but most don't take the piss with it because if you're not in the office then you're not making money so you're only hurting yourself(Some firms pay a salary so they might not be as loose but I've never worked in a place like that so can't comment). Generally people who come in to prop firms are extremely motivated and love trading so the issue of people skipping out isn't a common occurrence. But no matter what level you are it it's certainly a lot easier to take a day off or go on holidays than it is working in jobs where you have to give notice or have a set amount of leave each year.

Senior traders would generally be any trader with a positive account. It's more of a title of experience than any actual responsibility within the firm

That simple ?,its not that hard to maintain a positive account,with a couple of basic systems and disciplined money management.

arrowloopboy wrote: »

That simple ?,its not that hard to maintain a positive account,with a couple of basic systems and disciplined money management.

The trading styles are totally different so it's more complicated than that. I don't trade a set amount of capital per trade.

Generally trainees coming in will have built up a down account from fees and trading losses so they have to earn that back before they are considered to be past the trainee stage

Idu wrote: »

What are you basing your opinions on? I've never heard of a prop firm that operates like that(though I'm sure there are some). Most prop firms leave their senior traders to come and go as they please and to trade in whatever manner they see fit

Was this question asked to me? If so, I'm basing my experience on quite a number years working for one of the above mentioned companies


I've never seen a trader given free rein to do whatever they wanted. They would have basic trading strategies to work around (which makes sense that you dont have multiple traders jumping on each others toes)

daheff wrote: »

Was this question asked to me? If so, I'm basing my experience on quite a number years working for one of the above mentioned companies


I've never seen a trader given free rein to do whatever they wanted. They would have basic trading strategies to work around (which makes sense that you dont have multiple traders jumping on each others toes)

I've worked in Positive and Myriad and it's nothing like what you describe. I also know for a fact that Marex, Tower and STA in London operate in the way I've described. In fact Positive promote sharing ideas and everybody doing the same trades

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Q1. Are you a senior trader.
Q2 Whats your allocated bankroll.
Q3 What do you trade
Q4 Is your trading completely dicscresioinary
Q5 Whats your average return over the past 5 yrs.
Q6 whats your average r/r %

That's for the 3 pros here,Idu Ixus and Mono.

We don't know ye,ye don't use your own names,ye are anonamis

Avoiding the above with some bullsh1t answer like we can't disclose that info ,like ye are one of the original Turtle group, is a plain and simple cop out.

In an ordiarly fashion lads ....

Q1. Are you a senior trader. Yes
Q2 Whats your allocated bankroll. Margin of 50k
Q3 What do you trade Pretty much every futures market possible(equities, energy, fx, softs, fixed income). Don't trade stocks
Q4 Is your trading completely dicscresioinary Yes
Q5 Whats your average return over the past 5 yrs. Made at least 6 figures net every year
Q6 whats your average r/r % I don't track it

Style of trading is very different to what most people's idea of trading is so r/r% and average return aren't generally things I take into account. For my margin I have limits in different products which allow me to trade different size in different strategies. If I lose the margin I need to put up more to continue to trade. I've never had this happen.

ixus wrote: »

1. Yes.
2. None of your business
3. Everything
4. Yes
5.See 2
6. See 2

The point you're missing is this conversation is not a private one between 3/4 people. There are plenty of my mates on Boards.ie who know who I am. I don't discuss what I earn with anybody. Why would I with you?

That's the end of that discussion as far as I'm concerned. It is not what the thread is about.

I don't care what you earn,i didn't ask you that ,re read my post.
I presume the bankroll you trade isn't yours,so its irrelevant .
you asked me to ask questions,i did,you coped out ,end of discussion,happy trading.

I only interviewed with Positive and it was 7 years ago so no doubt it's changed since then but the interview was friendly and quite relaxed. They didn't ask me anything too complicated or any tough maths questions it was more of a getting to know you type interview. In those days they hired people with certain mental attributes over people with amazing educational achievements. They were looking for high achievers in any field and people who showed a competitive streak. That was changing though but I don't know the specifics of their interview anymore. I think Positive do a simple exam before their interview and we do in Myriad too but it's extremely straight forward.

I've been told by other guys I've worked with that Geneva did(or do) a math based interview over the phone and I think SIG is the same. I'd imagine SIG's interview to be much more in line with what you would imagine an Investment Banks to be.

Can't remember any crazy moments from my own interview but from ones I've done the people who stand out are people who had no idea about trading or prop trading specifically. I would imagine the number 1 thing these companies still want is people who are passionate about trading.

If I was offering someone tips going into an interview with Positive, Myriad or Geneva I would say it's important to show a real passion for trading and back it up. Just saying it won't cut it. Also this is quite obvious but relax. More so than most jobs previous academic skills aren't as transferable so the interview is more about you as a person than what you know. I know from interviews I've done that I generally lean towards people who I'd like to sit beside rather than someone with degrees to burn.

Good luck in your search!

What prop houses will teach you is how not to lose money and manage your risk so the thing that holds most trainees back is just their own personality or attitude to risk. Some people, regardless of how hard they work or how smart they are, just can't pull the trigger on trades or handle the downside that inevitably comes with trading for a living. There's no hard and fast rule as to what % of a class will be successful

I'd agree with that. Some people just can't handle the swings of trading or even the simplest things like cutting losing trades. You can see evidence of that in so many of the threads on here. The best traders accept bad trades as part and parcel of the job. The reason most people aren't as profitable as they could be is because they have their money sitting in bad investments waiting for it to turn back into profit rather than accepting it, moving on and finding a better opportunity. Nobody can be right 100% of the time so the sooner people realise that the more successful they'll be

freeze4real wrote: »

What's salary bracket for junior traders ? Positive and Myriad don't pay a salary. You get a % of what you earn. Since most junior traders don't make anything at the start they get a small stipend of around €750 a month which is just to help out. It's certainly not enough to live well on but plenty of people have managed it before

Would junior traders have to allocate a certain percentage of their income to towards certain costs ? There are costs every month for market access, front end software etc. These are taken pre split and then the remainder(if any) is available to be taken as a salary

What kind is involved in the 2nd stage ? Is it a general knowledge test about the financial markets or more arithmetic ? Second interview is quite similar to the first one but probably a little more market focused. In Myriad the maths test is before the 2nd interview. Generally in your second interview you will meet different people from the 1st one so that as many people as possible get to meet you. As I said before they're hiring the person not a list of achievements

Answered your questions in bold above. I would say to anyone who was applying for positions in the past or in the future that even if you don't get an interview 1st time around or you don't make the cut in the interviews don't let that discourage you from applying elsewhere or even reapplying the next time around. The hiring process is quite fickle and the judgements are best guesses the most of the time. IMO there is no one thing that can tell you who will be a success so don't be discouraged by rejection and take it as a sign that you're not qualified.