Pylons

Mountainsandh · 12-02-2014 10:08AM

But wind are getting subsidies, so it's really a matter of shifting interest and support, or maybe balancing it better between energy types, and emission reducing measures.

If I am to keep paying for subsidies, and that amount is going to increase, I personally would rather support innovative types of energy producing/CO2 reducing ventures.

In other words, it makes more sense for me to support the farmers who want to set up a methane transforming system in the countryside, than to support wind turbines in the countryside.

In the video I linked to earlier in the thread (from French gov agency), the farmer admitted his system was costly to set up, but he urged farmers to get together and share an even more efficient system between 2/3 farms. How clever.

Heroditas · 12-02-2014 10:28AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

But wind are getting subsidies, so it's really a matter of shifting interest and support, or maybe balancing it better between energy types, and emission reducing measures.

If I am to keep paying for subsidies, and that amount is going to increase, I personally would rather support innovative types of energy producing/CO2 reducing ventures.

So you haven't any real handle on the cost then.

As for saying that you would personally support innovative types of energy, that doesn't necessarily mean that it will be affordable for others. That needs to be borne in mind, particulaarly when developing and implementing policy.
Which brings us neatly back to the reason why pylons are going to be used instead of running the cables underground - cost.

Mountainsandh · 12-02-2014 01:03PM

Not at all.

But Minister O'Dowd seems to think it achievable enough, since he's establishing committees to cost and look into organizing all that. Rather than ask me for costs, which I don't know any more than you do, I would rather you'd read his comments on Bioenergy here, as provided earlier.

Again same dismissive attitude to anything that is not wind, and that would involve not making quick money as well as not spending it.

That's all very well in the here and now, but not always a long term solution.

When Ardnacrusha and the electrification of Ireland took place, the government of the time apparently took daring risks, spending a lot of money on something completely new. (I quoted a passage from a historical book earlier in this thread, will try and dig it out if you like)

Aren't we glad they did.

Making big changes is not all about money, with that perspective you can't see much further than your nose as we say in French.

Remember too that I am not talking about scrapping wind, I am talking about rescaling, thereby saving money that would otherwise have been thrown at it, and using that same money on something else. Diversifying if you like.
Tell me that there is no extra money going to be spent on wind in the next while and you will have an argument.

As it stands, part of the upgrade is to cater for energy produced from more wind turbines, and some for export, that costs money.
The pylons needed to connect and allow new wind farms are going to cost money.

Different plan, with different objectives >> money goes somewhere else.

Heroditas · 12-02-2014 01:15PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Not at all.

But Minister O'Dowd seems to think it achievable enough, since he's establishing committees to cost and look into organizing all that. Rather than ask me for costs, which I don't know any more than you do, I would rather you'd read his comments on Bioenergy here, as provided earlier.

I've read it and I have no interest in his vote-harvesting soundbites.
I'm fully aware what the costs are by the way.
They're so ridiculously expensive that REFIT 3 is required to give the following subsisides:

REFIT 3
Biomass Combustion €88.693 €89.136
Biomass Combustion - Energy Crops €99.127 €99.623
Large Biomass CHP (above 1500kW) €125.213 €125.839
Small Biomass CHP (equal to or less than 1500kW) €146.082 €146.812
Large AD Non CHP (above 500kW) €104.344 €104.866
Small AD Non CHP (equal to or less than 500kW) €114.779 €115.353
Large AD CHP (above 500kW) €135.647 €136.326
Small AD CHP (equal to or less than 500kW) €156.516 €157.299

Guess what, even despite those large subsidies per MWh, people still aren't interested in investing.

There is no point "diversifying" if the costs don't add up. Do you actually understand that basic mathematical assumption?
People seem to throw a lot of weight behind the Ardnacrusha argument but that doesn't stack up because we are talking about what is now an established resource. At the time, there was barely any electicity in the country. We're not talking about "bold leaps of faith" here.
It's the 21st century.

Regarding the cost of wind, wind developers have to stump up a lot of the cost themslves for network upgrades when they connect their farms so it's not a case that most of it is lumped on the average joe.
Do you actually think that wind farms make a quick buck? They actually don't. Unless you consider 10 years to get a return on the investment to be a get-rich-quick scheme.

Greensleeves · 12-02-2014 02:35PM

Heroditas wrote: »

Do you actually think that wind farms make a quick buck? They actually don't. Unless you consider 10 years to get a return on the investment to be a get-rich-quick scheme.

According to Eddie O'Connor of Mainstream Renewable Power wind farms are "cash pumps".

Mainstream Renewable Taps Pensions, Insurers for $4 Billion Plan

Mainstream Renewable Power Ltd. will seek investment from pension funds and insurers to help finance a 3 billion-euro ($4 billion) wind and solar-power expansion.

The Dublin-based company may start a fund for investors or sell stakes in projects, Chief Executive Officer Eddie O’Connor said by phone. Pension funds willing to accept lower returns for low-risk investments will help cut capital costs, O’Connor said.

“We’re going to facilitate people who want a regular absolute return of 6 percent per annum,” he said. “That’s what a pension fund expects. They don’t want to be taking risk.”

The company will raise about 80 percent of the investment via its Mainstream Capital unit, with investors buying project stakes during or just after construction as risks fall, he said. “Building wind farms is actually a very low-risk activity,” O’Connor said. After construction “it’s a cash pump.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-11/mainstream-renewable-taps-pensions-insurers-for-4-billion-plan.html

Greensleeves · 12-02-2014 02:41PM

Some interesting background to the pylons/turbines saga from The Observer in 2011.

UK urges Ireland to build windfarms on west coast

Plans to link electricity grids offer the UK a chance to meet its clean energy targets – but threaten to blight Irish beauty spots

Ireland's unspoiled, windswept west coast could become the focus of a new wave of windfarm construction in the wake of a high-level diplomatic meeting to be held tomorrow in London.

UK deputy prime minister Nick Clegg, Taoiseach Enda Kenny and other senior members of the British-Irish Council will gather to discuss a plan to expand electricity grid connections throughout the British Isles. In particular, they want to build new inter-connectors to link the electricity grids of Ireland and Britain in order to transmit power from new windfarms in Ireland to England.

The aim of the plan, created by the British government, is to open up remote regions that could provide Britain with more power generated by windfarms, as well as by tide and wave plants, and so reduce its reliance on fossil fuels.

"The west coast of Ireland has some of the fiercest winds in Europe," said Charles Hendry, the UK energy minister, who will be attending the meeting. "They whip in off the Atlantic which makes it is an ideal location for windfarms. However, the Irish market for electricity is less than a tenth of that of Britain. That means that companies cannot afford to build windfarms in Ireland because there is no market for their power. We want to put that right."

Full story...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/18/ireland-wind-power-grid

Heroditas · 12-02-2014 03:19PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

According to Eddie O'Connor of Mainstream Renewable Power wind farms are "cash pumps".

Rule of thumb: it's best not to use any Eddie O'Connor quote when trying to back up an argument. He'll say anything to get media coverage.
They are anything but cash pumps here due to the level of REFIT support, land acquisition costs, corporation taxes, construction and then the all-important capacity factors.

EDIT: he also doesn't say that this has anything to do with Ireland.

Rigor Mortis · 13-02-2014 09:18AM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Some interesting background to the pylons/turbines saga from The Observer in 2011.

UK urges Ireland to build windfarms on west coast

Plans to link electricity grids offer the UK a chance to meet its clean energy targets – but threaten to blight Irish beauty spots

Ireland's unspoiled, windswept west coast could become the focus of a new wave of windfarm construction in the wake of a high-level diplomatic meeting to be held tomorrow in London.

UK deputy prime minister Nick Clegg, Taoiseach Enda Kenny and other senior members of the British-Irish Council will gather to discuss a plan to expand electricity grid connections throughout the British Isles. In particular, they want to build new inter-connectors to link the electricity grids of Ireland and Britain in order to transmit power from new windfarms in Ireland to England.

The aim of the plan, created by the British government, is to open up remote regions that could provide Britain with more power generated by windfarms, as well as by tide and wave plants, and so reduce its reliance on fossil fuels.

"The west coast of Ireland has some of the fiercest winds in Europe," said Charles Hendry, the UK energy minister, who will be attending the meeting. "They whip in off the Atlantic which makes it is an ideal location for windfarms. However, the Irish market for electricity is less than a tenth of that of Britain. That means that companies cannot afford to build windfarms in Ireland because there is no market for their power. We want to put that right."

Full story...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/18/ireland-wind-power-grid

That story is three years old. Things have moved on a little bit since then, both for wind power and for Minister Hendry

SeanW · 13-02-2014 02:56PM

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

That story is three years old. Things have moved on a little bit since then, both for wind power and for Minister Hendry

But the fundamentals have not.

Even setting aside the fact that wind farms are nothing but unstable, ugly, landscape spoiling, bird chomping, bat killing, subsidy guzzling monstrosities, it's been reported that to get 1/6 of the UKs energy needs from wind would require covering an area the size of Wales with wind turbines. That's a massive area, committed solely to wind farms.

That fact alone should've seen the whole barmy idea consigned to the dustbin. But it seems the UK is looking to try it anyway, and they're looking in our direction. Lucky us :mad:

It is entirely appropriate for those of us not enamoured with wind turbines to question this kind of stuff. And their associated developments, which from this thread it seems this is partly the reason for more landscape trashing pylons.

Greensleeves · 13-02-2014 05:11PM

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

That story is three years old. Things have moved on a little bit since then, both for wind power and for Minister Hendry

Exactly. Things are very different in the UK now to what they were back in 2011 but we are carrying on as though they are exactly the same.

Charles Hendry was very pro-wind and his sacking in 2012 was viewed as a great loss to the green economy in the UK. He was replaced by John Hayes an anti-wind lobbyist. Having started out in 2010 claiming to lead "the greenest government ever" by last November David Cameron announced that it was time to "get rid of all the green crap". The current Environment Secretary, Owen Paterson, has been accused of being a climate change denier. If UK wind subsidies dry up the export of wind energy from Ireland may not be viable.

Greensleeves · 13-02-2014 05:24PM

Heroditas wrote: »

Rule of thumb: it's best not to use any Eddie O'Connor quote when trying to back up an argument. He'll say anything to get media coverage.

Do you think his plans for the Irish midlands will not be profitable? If so why would he bother?

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2014 06:04PM

SeanW wrote: »

But the fundamentals have not.

Even setting aside the fact that wind farms are nothing but unstable, ugly, landscape spoiling, bird chomping, bat killing, subsidy guzzling monstrosities, it's been reported that to get 1/6 of the UKs energy needs from wind would require covering an area the size of Wales with wind turbines. That's a massive area, committed solely to wind farms.

That fact alone should've seen the whole barmy idea consigned to the dustbin. But it seems the UK is looking to try it anyway, and they're looking in our direction. Lucky us :mad:

It is entirely appropriate for those of us not enamoured with wind turbines to question this kind of stuff. And their associated developments, which from this thread it seems this is partly the reason for more landscape trashing pylons.

Were do people get this notion that there being built to power the UK ? I have only ever read about spare capacity maybe sold to them, just like we purchase from them. People need to stop reading papers claiming stuff like "massive wind turbines to power UK". When in fact it’s to Power Ireland....

Jester252 · 13-02-2014 06:09PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Were do people get this notion that there being built to power the UK ? I have only ever read about spare capacity maybe sold to them, just like we purchase from them. People need to stop reading papers claiming stuff like "massive wind turbines to power UK". When in fact it’s to Power Ireland....

The turbine plan in the midlands is to power the UK, The pylons are to improve Ireland electricity infrastructure.

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2014 06:26PM

Jester252 wrote: »

The turbine plan in the midlands is to power the UK, The pylons are to improve Ireland electricity infrastructure.

Proof ?

Jester252 · 13-02-2014 06:32PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Straw man : implying that I said Irish reports are not important when what I really said was "There are numerous energy reports, and not just Irish".
Not a great way to win an argument.

Its not a straw man, when looking at solutions to Ireland energy problem, you need to use Irish energy report. Its utter madness to use foreign reports seen as they are build for the country that the report originated in. Renewable energy sources available for exploiting in France etc. might not be available in Ireland.

No. This is where people have to be more clever than just trying to make a quick buck. We do have a choice to slow down, and give other solutions a chance. Thankfully ministers seem to be more up to it than you are.
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Corporate+Un...Conference.htm
Though wind has to date been by far the most significant source of renewable electricity and, indeed, is expected to continue in that regard, the Government recognises it must be complemented by other policies to meet our renewables target.

I'm sorry I didn't know both time and climate forcing where slowing down. We still have 2020 targets to meet. We have to use the technology available to us. There is point in stopping a person with a headache from taking a Panadol because there might be a better tablet in the future. To hinder the wind industry because of some potential technology or other renewable is ridiculous, especially seen as R&D and commercial are two separate industries, holding back one won't help the other. As for Biofuals they get the same help for the government as wind. See the Refit scheme.

But everything is interconnected.
For targets, heating and transport have a large part to play in reducing C02 emissions.
And of course, while people are using other sources for heating they will not need electricity for it, or not as much. (ie urban geothermal could supply alternative to appartments storage heaters, for example)

That doesn't change the fact we have targets to meet.

Irish Targets:

Overall renewables target - 16% of total final consumption to come from renewable energy in 2020. This target will be made up of contributions from renewable energy in electricity (RES-E), renewable energy in transport (RES-T) and renewable energy for heat and cooling (RES-H).

There are also individual targets for RES-E, RES-T and RES-H. These targets are as follows:

Renewables contribution to gross electricity consumption of 15% by 2010 and 40% by 2020.
Renewables (biofuels & the renewable portion of electricity) contribution to transport energy 3% by 2010 & 10% by 2020.
Renewable contribution to heat (Thermal requirement - heating & cooling) 5% by 2010 & 12% by 2020.

Solar and geothermal will help with the heating, Biofuals with the transport. but the geothermal will need electricity, transport will need electricity (Luas/Dart). We need wind to help us reach the 2020 electricity target.

Capt'n Midnight · 13-02-2014 06:59PM

SeanW wrote: »

a massive area, committed solely to wind farms.

Because wind farms preclude all other forms of nature or recreational or economic activity ?

Wales is 20,761 km², Area of UK is 243,610 km²

So if your figures are true (and it depends a lot on the height of the turbines and spacing) it would be like covering Mayo with wind tubines, and having none anywhere else in the country, or offshore.

Hang on...

BRB , just off to phone Enda :pac:

valerossi · 13-02-2014 07:13PM

My mother and her 13 siblings grew up about a mile from a power station and a row of pylons, the closest was about 400 yards from her house and guess what their all alive and well the oldest is 74.
I was reared in a house beside where she grew up with my 5 siblings, the oldest is 48 and were all fine. In fact anyone I know or have known in that area has lived long happy life's apart from a few tragic accidents not related to pylons.
The only harm they have done my family is when my brother as a child climbed one and fell off "he's a bit dull;)".

Heroditas · 13-02-2014 07:31PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Do you think his plans for the Irish midlands will not be profitable? If so why would he bother?

His plan is completely dependent on my wind farms built here to export to the UK being designated as "offshore" and thus receiving higher prices per MWh.
Without that, it's dead in the water, simple as.

Capt'n Midnight · 13-02-2014 07:41PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

But there are options to reduce emissions.
Bioenergy looks a good one.
Minister O'Dowd mentions the biomethane (and biogas) potentials I have linked to earlier, that you have comfortably ignored CM.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Corporate+Units/Press+Room/Speeches/2013/Address+by+Minister+O+Dowd+at+the+IrBEA+13th+National+Bioenergy+Conference.htm

There are lots of solutions, not of the scale of wind, and potentially more costly at first glance, that you seem intent on ignoring or shooting down in flames, because not making money but spending some.

...

I am not talking about scrapping wind altogether, but keeping it a reasonable scale instead of going for it hook, line and sinker.

Biomass is replacing some peat, but that's co-firing with a target of 30% biomass. It's got a long way to go to replace peat never mind anything else.

http://www.bordnamona.ie/our-company/our-businesses/feedstock/biomass/
Some of the biomass is imported Agri-residue so will probably go up in price
Some of it is limited supply like forestry thinnings and sawmill waste
Miscanthus can only be used up to 5%

It's great that it's dispatchable and I like the idea of willow coppicing and all and every little helps, but it's not going to provide anything like the energy we are already getting from wind. A lot of the easy biomass has been earmarked already and expansion won't be as easy or cheap as now you've to compete with others for resources.

Biomass is great when it's free like wind, but those days are gone.

As an example of how things are going Sweden is importing most of Norway's garbage on top of it's own for it's incinerators. It's only providing power for 0.25m homes out of 14.5m ,so yes it's useful, but no it's not something you could ever run the whole country off.

Another example was turning turkey waste to energy in Carthage. It worked, only problem was another use was found for the waste that paid more and it was game over. The economics of biomass as a fuel aren't great because you never know who will find a better use for the biomass.

Wind is simply the best value at the moment, and you don't have to worry about someone outbidding you for the supply.

For other renewables it's usually one of a few stories. Either it's niche like microhydro or too capital expensive like wave or risky like biomass.

Greensleeves · 13-02-2014 09:03PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Proof ?

Greenwire:

• First Irish provider to sign contracts with UK National Grid to supply 3,000 megawatts by 2018

• All cabling underground, all infrastructure independent of Irish grid

http://greenwire.ie/greenwire-wind-energy/project-summary

An Bord Pleanala Pre-application Consultation:
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/PC0148.htm

Greensleeves · 13-02-2014 09:13PM

Energy Bridge:

* Expected to be exporting power to the UK by 2017.
* Grid connection to the UK already signed and agreed.
* All cables will be underground only.

http://www.energybridge.ie/project-facts.asp

"It is also clear that there is no opportunity for Energy Bridge sites in the midlands to deliver electricity to the Irish market. The route to market is obvious; export to the UK, otherwise the opportunity will be lost."

http://www.energybridge.ie/why-export.asp

An Bord Pleanala Pre-Application Consultation:
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/PC0169.htm

darkpagandeath · 16-02-2014 12:05AM

So Private wind farms being setup to export energy to the UK using their own infrastructure that's underground and not Eirgrid. So again why are people insisting that the Eirgrid upgrade is some how related to the export for profit to the UK ? And on the private companies do they even have planning permission. Both are in the Pre-Application Consultation phase

Greensleeves · 16-02-2014 09:54PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So again why are people insisting that the Eirgrid upgrade is some how related to the export for profit to the UK ?

Pat Rabbitte signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on energy cooperation with his UK counterpart Ed Davey in Jan 2013. The idea is that Ireland will build wind farms and export power to the UK. From the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources website:

"Detailed consideration of how Ireland’s onshore and offshore wind resources might be developed for export to the UK is now underway, with a view to determining if it is beneficial for both countries to enter into an IGA under the EU Renewable Energy Directive.

There are very complex issues to be considered, such as, the actual scale of the export generation capacity required by the United Kingdom, the approach to be taken to grid development, and the sharing of potential benefits between both States. Though it is ambitious, the target for completion of this work is early 2014, with a view to electricity being exported to the United Kingdom by 2020 in order to be counted towards the United Kingdom’s national target under the Renewables Directive.

The need for further analysis to identify in more detail Ireland’s capacity to develop generation and transmission infrastructure for large scale export of renewable energy, taking into account environmental and planning considerations, has been identified."

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Energy/Sustainable+and+Renewable+Energy+Division/Renewable+Energy+Export/

darkpagandeath · 17-02-2014 03:14PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Pat Rabbitte signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on energy cooperation with his UK counterpart Ed Davey in Jan 2013. The idea is that Ireland will build wind farms and export power to the UK. From the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources website:

"Detailed consideration of how Ireland’s onshore and offshore wind resources might be developed for export to the UK is now underway, with a view to determining if it is beneficial for both countries to enter into an IGA under the EU Renewable Energy Directive.

There are very complex issues to be considered, such as, the actual scale of the export generation capacity required by the United Kingdom, the approach to be taken to grid development, and the sharing of potential benefits between both States. Though it is ambitious, the target for completion of this work is early 2014, with a view to electricity being exported to the United Kingdom by 2020 in order to be counted towards the United Kingdom’s national target under the Renewables Directive.

The need for further analysis to identify in more detail Ireland’s capacity to develop generation and transmission infrastructure for large scale export of renewable energy, taking into account environmental and planning considerations, has been identified."

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Energy/Sustainable+and+Renewable+Energy+Division/Renewable+Energy+Export/

To me that says any spare capacity on both sides were does it say Eirgrid specifically builds renewables just to power UK homes ? I think people are reading to much into this again. And again wind and wave is a resource just like any other that can be used to generate money for the economy. I can also make it look that way just by changing what you put in bold. Taking things out of context is never good if you read the whole of what you posted it is just suggesting in my eyes exporting spare capacity and maybe looking into some scale of export to be looked at in the future. And not building massive wind farms just to power UK homes.

Jester252 · 17-02-2014 05:14PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

To me that says any spare capacity on both sides were does it say Eirgrid specifically builds renewables just to power UK homes ? I think people are reading to much into this again. And again wind and wave is a resource just like any other that can be used to generate money for the economy. I can also make it look that way just by changing what you put in bold. Taking things out of context is never good if you read the whole of what you posted it is just suggesting in my eyes exporting spare capacity and maybe looking into some scale of export to be looked at in the future. And not building massive wind farms just to power UK homes.

Just to clear things up

1st The wind farms in the Midlands are for the UK.

2nd Eirgrid are not spearheading the project. Its a company called Mainstream

3rd Eirgirs are a transmission company, not a generation company.

darkpagandeath · 18-02-2014 12:16AM

Jester252 wrote: »

Just to clear things up

1st The wind farms in the Midlands are for the UK.

2nd Eirgrid are not spearheading the project. Its a company called Mainstream

3rd Eirgirs are a transmission company, not a generation company.

exactly my point ...

Greensleeves · 18-02-2014 11:25AM

From the Examiner today:

Report to raise questions about financial benefits of Eirgrid powerlines

Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Fresh questions are set to be raised about the financial reasoning behind Eirgrid’s proposed powerline routes, with a warning that the case for exporting wind power to Britain is “non-existent”.

A new report will this week call in to question the Government’s energy policy and specifically Eirgrid’s €3.2bn plan — Grid 25 —to build hundreds of new pylons around the country.

Sections of the report seen by the Irish Examiner warn that any exporting of wind power to Britain following the grid extension will not work as Ireland’s prices will be too expensive.

It also warns that a doubling of Ireland’s wind power output, which Eirgrid says is needed, could “destabilise” the entire network and even result in “power blackouts”.

Consultants BW Energy carried out the report for Rethink Pylons, a campaign group opposed to Eirgrid’s current plan to extend the national transmission grid. The report does not focus on the health or visual aspects of Eirgrid’s project but rather questions the “financial reasoning” behind Grid25. It also asks if the strategy has been properly conceived.

Full story...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/report-to-raise-questions-about-financial-benefits-of-eirgrid-powerlines-259159.html#.UwMmWHCIORh.twitter

darkpagandeath · 18-02-2014 12:15PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

From the Examiner today:

Report to raise questions about financial benefits of Eirgrid powerlines

Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Fresh questions are set to be raised about the financial reasoning behind Eirgrid’s proposed powerline routes, with a warning that the case for exporting wind power to Britain is “non-existent”.

A new report will this week call in to question the Government’s energy policy and specifically Eirgrid’s €3.2bn plan — Grid 25 —to build hundreds of new pylons around the country.

Sections of the report seen by the Irish Examiner warn that any exporting of wind power to Britain following the grid extension will not work as Ireland’s prices will be too expensive.

It also warns that a doubling of Ireland’s wind power output, which Eirgrid says is needed, could “destabilise” the entire network and even result in “power blackouts”.

Consultants BW Energy carried out the report for Rethink Pylons, a campaign group opposed to Eirgrid’s current plan to extend the national transmission grid. The report does not focus on the health or visual aspects of Eirgrid’s project but rather questions the “financial reasoning” behind Grid25. It also asks if the strategy has been properly conceived.

Full story...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/report-to-raise-questions-about-financial-benefits-of-eirgrid-powerlines-259159.html#.UwMmWHCIORh.twitter

Who are these consultants ? Electrical engineers running a similar network and have a history of this ? Looks like a group paid for a report to me.

More red herrings signed agreement to export ? No we did not. We signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on energy cooperation.
Rolling black outs ? So now Eirgrid has no idea what they are doing apparently.
Price to high to export ? How would they have any idea what the UK would purchase the power at to meet its EU targets. That's if Eirgrid decided to sell any spare capacity to them.

So now that the Health/Environmental/Devaluation/scale has all been debunked mostly were onto now it’s just going to cost to much. So does this mean now that undergrounding is defiantly out as it cost more than over ground and you cant say the network will just cost to much and still insist on undergrounding.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/eirgrid-to-consider-paying-market-value-for-homes-near-pylons-1.1672562

Wonder how many will take the money or sell up ?

Birdnuts · 18-02-2014 01:31PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who are these consultants ? Electrical engineers running a similar network and have a history of this ? Looks like a group paid for a report to me.

.

So now that the Health/Environmental/Devaluation/scale has all been debunked mostly were onto now it’s just going to cost to much. So does this mean now that undergrounding is defiantly out as it cost more than over ground and you cant say the network will just cost to much and still insist on undergrounding.

Your some man for ignoring anything that doesn't fit in with your pylons/wind at any cost view. A couple of things. The property devalaution issue has already been clarified from studies in the the UK showing signficant propery devaluation associated with wind energy developments as linked to in this thread. There is similar emerging evidence in this country with regards to pylon routes - again highlighted earlier in this thread. You also have some cheek questioning the report referred to in Greensleves post. Its highlighting issues that have already emerged on the continent in regards to wind power in terms of its significant economic and environmental shortcomings. Issues that the likes of Eirgrid,Dept Of Energy etc. continue to wilfully ignore which doesn't say much for their credablity.

PS: I was pleasantly suprised last week that RTE's Primetime produced a very informative item on wind power in regards to Irelands current policies in the area which appear to be destined to make the same mistakes that have occured in Germany. Their reporter visited and spoke to a number of experts and industry players in the country who spoke eloquently about how wind power has significantly pushed up power bills for families and industry while failing the curb CO2 emmissions. Inconvienent truths that up to now the wind industry and their array of spin doctors have sought to hide from the the Irish Public who they view as soft target cash cows.

darkpagandeath · 18-02-2014 01:48PM

Birdnuts wrote: »

Your some man for ignoring anything that doesn't fit in with your pylons/wind at any cost view. A couple of things. The property devalaution issue has already been clarified from studies in the the UK showing signficant propery devaluation associated with wind energy developments as linked to in this thread. There is similar emerging evidence in this country with regards to pylon routes - again highlighted earlier in this thread. You also have some cheek questioning the report referred to in Greensleves post. Its highlighting issues that have already emerged on the continent in regards to wind power in terms of its significant economic and environmental shortcomings. Issues that the likes of Eirgrid,Dept Of Energy etc. continue to wilfully ignore which doesn't say much for their credablity.

PS: I was pleasantly suprised last week that RTE's Primetime produced a very informative item on wind power in regards to Irelands current policies in the area which appear to be destined to make the same mistakes that have occured in Germany. Their reporter visited and spoke to a number of experts and industry players in the country who spoke eloquently about how wind power has significantly pushed up power bills for families and industry while failing the curb CO2 emmissions. Inconvienent truths that up to now the wind industry and their array of spin doctors have sought to hide from the the Irish Public who they view as soft target cash cows.

Last time I checked Ireland is a separate country to the UK so house prices going up and down there has no bearing here. Can you link to actual reports from this country ?

Same with questions about the continent France Germany so on are not Ireland. How about get some reports relating to This actual country ?

Do we have to rehash the CO2 its been explained again and again that cheap coal in Germany and so on, Opening coal fired power plants they can run into the ground produces cheap power and lots of CO2. Can you get any reports relating to CO2 emissions wind farms and Ireland ?

And I have every right to Question a Paid for report. The anti side is trying to use as much smoke and mirrors to muddy the water and draw attention away from actual facts. I think your the one that's not agreeing with anything that does not fit an agenda tbh

And on Primetime were they talking about private companies again or Eirgrid ?

Pylons

Comments