Dun Laoghaire Junkies

frash · 06-02-2014 2:40pm

The Reverend wrote: »

Better to have them wandering around church grounds or a pub car park than being let wander around a community with children, old people, shops and resident's gardens, to name just a few of the locations they make a nuisance of themselves in.

The site you believe that this site is moving to (again with nothing to back it up) is between two primary schools - hardly an ideal location either.

Any update on the proof of this move btw?? :rolleyes:

Chinasea · 06-02-2014 7:57pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

There was a proper pedestrian zone, the local businesses agitated to add traffic back to it.

No there was not. There was an extremely expensive cobblestone road put it, but that was more or less it. There was NOTHING to stop cars continuing to use the pedestrian zone. Absolutely nothing. And of course with the usual non-enforcement regime, one by one the cars returned to hurtle down, as they discovered there was no deterrent nor enforcement of the so called pedestrian zone. The business association were adamant that it was causing their down- turn in business which of course, was/is and will never be the cause. It all looked very temporary too, no real momentum behind it. Again, if they had of invested in some simple planting, benches etc., this would have definitely indicated to me that they were serious about the Pedestrian Zone. Sligo town had exactly the same farce, which IMO was another shame.

Cycle lanes are deficient: Agreed but there are so many bike stands the visually impaired must curse them - Now that is just not true.

The bike shops have worked with national bike week and opened up clinics and cheap servicing in some of the other empty units before. Bike servicing isnt expensive compared to a car or daily public transport use, it does not require incentives: Don't agree with this either. I firmly believe it would be an excellent incentive.

The problem certainly isnt congested traffic : don't agree: and lack of parking, any satnav will guide you to DL no problem and the parking and carparks are signposted - yea, OK.

Parking costs on the street reduced by 25% last month to undercut the multi-storeys and the private carparks are doing serious value for weekly/monthly tickets. Fine, no problems with that.

As someone who intends to vote for the BID, I would ask you not to rain on a parade without reviewing the floats.

Well, I would imagine we both want the best, but have different views.

The Reverend · 06-02-2014 8:32pm

frash wrote: »

The site you believe that this site is moving to (again with nothing to back it up) is between two primary schools - hardly an ideal location either.

Any update on the proof of this move btw?? :rolleyes:

I never said I had proof, I said a resident who lives in my apartment block, who happens to be a Garda for the last 10 years said it was common knowledge within Dun Laoghaire Garda station. So yes, it's just the word of one man however, this man would know a lot more about it than you or I.

The Dun Laoghaire clinic is less than 300 yards from a primary school, so whether it be one or two schools is of little significance.

The addicts pose no threat to children, if they did, then the Dun Laoghaire clinic would have been closed years ago. Their interest is in getting high, begging for cash, scrounging off locals, shop lifting, and then drinking till they drop in a nice, cushy atmosphere.

Larbre34 · 10-02-2014 12:52pm

Article in the various local Gazette titles of Thursday last refutes the location of a methadone clinic at the KO'G Garda Station. The OPW 'have not offered the station to any state body, including the HSE, hence no decision has been taken on any possible future use for it'. HSE Dublin Mid-Leinster say they have no plans in relation to it at all.

frash · 10-02-2014 12:59pm

Here's the article in full

The Reverend · 11-02-2014 7:40pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Article in the various local Gazette titles of Thursday last refutes the location of a methadone clinic at the KO'G Garda Station. The OPW 'have not offered the station to any state body, including the HSE, hence no decision has been taken on any possible future use for it'. HSE Dublin Mid-Leinster say they have no plans in relation to it at all.

Look, I never said I have evidence. I said I heard it from my mate, a garda. I have no axe to grind, neither does he.

'Various local Gazette titles' - why be so vague? name one, post the link.

Your quote from the OPW 'have not offered…' can we have the source please. If you're going to use a direct quote you have to reference the author's name, date they said it, and publication they said it in - it's called referencing.

HSE Mid-Leinster 'say' they have no plants - again, can you provide a concise reference as to who in the HSE said it, when they said it and where we can find the article.

If anyone has the proof, post it, I'd love to be wrong on this, but if you're posting claiming to know what all these departments are saying, then reference it clearly and show us where we can all read it.

Reverend, T. (2014). Poster's making wild, unfounded statements with no evidence. Boards: Dublin.

frash · 11-02-2014 8:18pm

Reverend see my screenshot in the post before yours which is from last Thursday's DunLaoghaire Gazette.

This has all the info that Larbre34 mentions.

Larbre34 · 12-02-2014 12:51pm

The Reverend wrote: »

Look, I never said I have evidence. I said I heard it from my mate, a garda. I have no axe to grind, neither does he.

'Various local Gazette titles' - why be so vague? name one, post the link.

Your quote from the OPW 'have not offered…' can we have the source please. If you're going to use a direct quote you have to reference the author's name, date they said it, and publication they said it in - it's called referencing.

HSE Mid-Leinster 'say' they have no plants - again, can you provide a concise reference as to who in the HSE said it, when they said it and where we can find the article.

If anyone has the proof, post it, I'd love to be wrong on this, but if you're posting claiming to know what all these departments are saying, then reference it clearly and show us where we can all read it.

Reverend, T. (2014). Poster's making wild, unfounded statements with no evidence. Boards: Dublin.

That's fairly pontificating for a 12 post member. I would have taken it as accepted that members with a local community interest would likely be aware of the Dublin Gazette group and the 8 local paper titles it publishes, one of which is the Dun Laoghaire Gazette, available free in many outlets for about 8 years now and from which Frash has extracted the article. From your post history I really wouldnt be standing in the glasshouse of proof, lobbing stones.

frash · 12-02-2014 3:39pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

From your post history I really wouldnt be standing in the glasshouse of proof, lobbing stones.

:D:D

Mick Murdock · 12-02-2014 5:03pm

Maybe I am ignorant of the facts, but would the town be much better off without the methodone clinic?

There seems to me to be an awful lot of non-junkie dirtbags hanging around the place anyway. Centra, Marine Road (45A Stop) seems to be a place of congregation for them. They most definitely don't live in Dún Laoghaire and quite honestly they annoy me more than the alcos/junkies.

As a culchie living in the locality, I find it incredible that they placed a methadone clinic in Dún Laoghaire. Refreshing in some ways, but I sympathise with the locals too.

I would have far more harsh treatment for troublemakers though - stop enabling them!!

coylemj · 12-02-2014 5:44pm

Mick Murdock wrote: »

Maybe I am ignorant of the facts, but would the town be much better off without the methodone clinic?

What alternative have you in mind?

Move it to a housing estate?

Close them down altogether?

In which case the addicts will resort to mugging old dears' handbags for their pension money to feed their heroin habit, and they will swarm into the shops in DL shoplifting, thereby pushing more business to the wall.

Like them or not, methadone clinics represent some element of control of and possible rehabilitation for drug addicts. They have to provide a urine sample to show that they are clean before they get the methadone dose which means that they are off illegal drugs and believe me, that represents a much better state of affairs than having dozens of heroin addicts thieving in the area all day to pay the serious cost of feeding their addiction.

The Reverend · 12-02-2014 8:48pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

That's fairly pontificating for a 12 post member. I would have taken it as accepted that members with a local community interest would likely be aware of the Dublin Gazette group and the 8 local paper titles it publishes, one of which is the Dun Laoghaire Gazette, available free in many outlets for about 8 years now and from which Frash has extracted the article. From your post history I really wouldnt be standing in the glasshouse of proof, lobbing stones.

Frash - many thank for the screenshot, now at least I, and everyone else, can see where those facts are being drawn from. Was there really any harm in me asking for evidence?

Labre - I have read the article carefully, and i can't see one line that indicates that the proposal has been ruled out. Sure, some individuals are saying they are 'unaware' of any plans, and no decision has 'yet been reached'. To be honest, that article, if I were a Kill'O'G resident, would do little to allay my fears. All the article shows is that nobody seems to know what's going on, no decision has been reached, or they're simply not releasing their verdict yet.

Now, to once again offer some evidence. I live close to a half-way house in Dun Laoghaire. A number of years ago, rumours started circulating that the end row of the street - I'm sure you all know it - was going to be bought and turned into a half-way house for the homeless and recovering alcoholics.

There was uproar in the local area, I know this because I live within 800 metres of it and was asked to join a protest group, which i declined. The local TD was questioned by locals, as were the OPW and Dun Laoghaire council - all claimed that it was just 'rumour' and that there were no plans for such a development. Andrews, who was the then local TD, went a step further and promised locals that nothing would go ahead without exhaustive local impact reports - notably the strain on the local police force - and consultation with the local residents.

Development started on the project two months later without any consultation with local resident and since it opened, it has become a source of aggravation to the local residents, and even worse, to the police who are called on a daily basis to deal with the drunks causing trouble outside. So the local police pretty much bide their time between the methadone addicts and the drunks.

Answer me this, if you were a Dun Laoghaire garda, would you be objecting to the move of the methadone clinic? I'm confident, although I have no evidence, that the Dun Laoghaire gardai might have a voice in the matter, even if they're just allowed to give their opinion, because they're the ones picking up the pieces from the catastrophic planning decisions being made in this town.

So to those of you naive enough to think that political parties, or any offices affiliated with the government, are giving you the facts, then think again. Instead of trusting public representatives and local bodies, maybe have a look at the evidence which speaks louder than words, notably the half-way house. It proves they do as they chose, when they chose, and you will be the last to hear about it. as will be the case in Kill O'G.

The Reverend.

Larbre34 · 13-02-2014 11:27am

The Reverend wrote: »

Answer me this, if you were a Dun Laoghaire garda, would you be objecting to the move of the methadone clinic?

I might be, but since the closure of the self same KO'G station, Rochestown Avenue is part of Dun Laoghaire station's patch so its the same difference to them policing wise, albeit a longer journey from base.

The Gardaí can object to planning proposals as an organisation or in a personal capacity just like anyone else, but they aren't a statutory referee in planning considerations. The Planning legislation does consider anti-social potential under different headings

josip · 13-02-2014 12:16pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

As someone who intends to vote for the BID, I would ask you not to rain on a parade without reviewing the floats.

We have a small, non-retail business based in Dun Laoghaire.
The BID will be an additional cost of c.€500 pa to us.
Our customers never visit us, we always visit them.

Can someone please explain how the BID will benefit our business in any way?

RosieJoe · 13-02-2014 1:36pm

The Reverend wrote: »

Now, to once again offer some evidence. I live close to a half-way house in Dun Laoghaire. A number of years ago, rumours started circulating that the end row of the street - I'm sure you all know it - was going to be bought and turned into a half-way house for the homeless and recovering alcoholics.

There was uproar in the local area, I know this because I live within 800 metres of it and was asked to join a protest group, which i declined. The local TD was questioned by locals, as were the OPW and Dun Laoghaire council - all claimed that it was just 'rumour' and that there were no plans for such a development. Andrews, who was the then local TD, went a step further and promised locals that nothing would go ahead without exhaustive local impact reports - notably the strain on the local police force - and consultation with the local residents.

Development started on the project two months later without any consultation with local resident and since it opened, it has become a source of aggravation to the local residents, and even worse, to the police who are called on a daily basis to deal with the drunks causing trouble outside. So the local police pretty much bide their time between the methadone addicts and the drunks.

Answer me this, if you were a Dun Laoghaire garda, would you be objecting to the move of the methadone clinic? I'm confident, although I have no evidence, that the Dun Laoghaire gardai might have a voice in the matter, even if they're just allowed to give their opinion, because they're the ones picking up the pieces from the catastrophic planning decisions being made in this town.

So to those of you naive enough to think that political parties, or any offices affiliated with the government, are giving you the facts, then think again. Instead of trusting public representatives and local bodies, maybe have a look at the evidence which speaks louder than words, notably the half-way house. It proves they do as they chose, when they chose, and you will be the last to hear about it. as will be the case in Kill O'G.

The Reverend.

No offense Rev but you are not offering any evidence. You have given us a tale of how the half way house came to be as an example of not trusting politicians or the OPW.

You then expect us to take the word of a Garda who lives beside you, saying that they have a vested interest in moving the clinic so that D/L Gardai don't have to "pick up the pieces". But if the clinic moves to KoG, then some other station has to "pick up the pieces" and they will have a vested interest in not having the clinic move up beside them.

And guess what, the Gardai are members of the public representatives and local bodies that you are asking us not to trust.

I will not believe that the clinic is moving to KoG until there is hard written proof, like PP or something similar, or they open it's doors to hand out methadone. Up until that point in time it is nothing but rumour, hear say and/or idle gossip.

RosieJoe. (2014). Negating Poster's making wild, unfounded statements with no evidence. Boards: Dublin.

Slutmonkey57b · 13-02-2014 2:20pm

I find it very amusing some posters on here believe that planning decisions are taken in an open, forthright manner where the public are notified in writing in advance of the proposal, the submission is subjected to some sort of independent review, and nothing happens before all interested parties have had their say.

As opposed to the proof of your own eyes from the last 20 years of wink-and-nod development in this country.

Planning laws apply to the ordinary sheep who want to change the gutters on the front of their house. Not to government projects or good old boyos with deep pockets and/or the ear of an egotistical local official.

josip · 13-02-2014 4:06pm

External email from Dun Laoghaire BID Association wrote:

Press Release: 55% of Votes were in Favour of BID Scheme

Businesses in Dún Laoghaire are preparing to transform their town into a thriving business and retail capital following today’s successful vote in favour of introducing a Business Improvement District. 55% of votes were in favour of the new scheme, with a massive 49% turn-out of voters, compared with just 39% in last October’s Seanad referendum.

The Business Improvement District (BID) project will see Dún Laoghaire businesses form a Ltd. Company, funded by the businesses themselves, to improve their commercial affairs. One of the first target areas to be set in motion under the new scheme will be negotiating serious discounts for all 805 businesses in the area on service charges such as electricity, waste collection and insurance.

Dún Laoghaire Business Association, the proponents of the BID scheme, say they are thrilled with today’s outcome.

Chair of Dún Laoghaire Business Association, Don McManus says they want to assure those who were sceptical about BID that they hope to work together with them so they will see direct benefits:

“The major objection from the no side was the cost to business, which we completely understand at a time when all businesses are stretched. 70% of businesses will be paying less than €200 per annum and we are confident that through initiatives such as collective bargaining, the benefits and savings will far outweigh the costs.”

“We look forward to working closely together with all of the businesses in the area to boost their business. Something drastic needed to be done to re-establish Dún Laoghaire as a booming economy. Dún Laoghaire was badly hit by the economic downturn, with many small family businesses forced to close shop. We now have the tools and resources to start this transformation with immediate effect. There are exciting times ahead.”

Once BID is officially introduced, the company will launch a major PR drive to attract new high-end quality retailers to fill the empty premises, so Dún Laoghaire will have a competitive edge as a leading Dublin shopping destination.

“Dún Laoghaire can offer the ultimate shopping experience. It is a beautiful seaside town with spectacular views and with the right high-end retail mix; we expect a landmark increase in footfall over the coming months, with a complete overhaul expected at the end of the five year BID period.”

The BID model has already experienced tremendous success in the UK in recent years with over 151 BID areas already established. The proponents of the Dún Laoghaire BID hope that the Dún Laoghaire model will be used as a template for hundreds of towns across Ireland to introduce Business Improvement Districts over the coming years.

The Dún Laoghaire BID will not be delivering any services that are currently being delivered by the local authority. All projects and initiatives that will be delivered by the Dún Laoghaire BID are additional to the services provided by the local authority.

Before BID is officially introduced it must be passed at a vote of Dún Laoghaire Co. Councillors at their monthly meeting on the 10th of March

Yet another cost of doing business

SimonMaher · 13-02-2014 4:15pm

josip wrote: »

We have a small, non-retail business based in Dun Laoghaire.
The BID will be an additional cost of c.€500 pa to us.
Our customers never visit us, we always visit them.

Can someone please explain how the BID will benefit our business in any way?

That's quite the rates bill you have there - 15k+ a year?

The idea of any BID is the rising tide lifts all boats idea. It's not a one-size fits all arrangment. There is an obvious more immediate benefit from a BID to a street facing retail outlet but even if for everyone else it just means some extra buying power in terms of building/contents/pli insurances and utilities then there is a start.

Hopefully BID will get some more footfall in Dun Laoghaire which might just keep your favourite sandwich shop in business and keep other businesses going in the town which surely is of benefit to everyone?

ricero · 13-02-2014 4:31pm

Dun laoghaire has the holy trinity for junkies. The clinic, homeless shelter and a dole office

josip · 13-02-2014 4:40pm

SimonMaher wrote: »

That's quite the rates bill you have there - 15k+ a year?

The idea of any BID is the rising tide lifts all boats idea. It's not a one-size fits all arrangment. There is an obvious more immediate benefit from a BID to a street facing retail outlet but even if for everyone else it just means some extra buying power in terms of building/contents/pli insurances and utilities then there is a start.

Hopefully BID will get some more footfall in Dun Laoghaire which might just keep your favourite sandwich shop in business and keep other businesses going in the town which surely is of benefit to everyone?

Rateable value of €90,000-€100,000

I'm not going to complain a lot seeing as it's not such a big charge.
I just feel that the BID proposers have the rose-tinted glasses on saying everyone will benefit.
I wouldn't mind paying it if they were up front about it and said, "the retail side of things in DL need a dig out, do the rest of you mind chipping in?".

SimonMaher · 13-02-2014 4:46pm

josip wrote: »

Rateable value of €90,000-€100,000

I wouldn't mind paying it if they were up front about it and said, "the retail side of things in DL need a dig out, do the rest of you mind chipping in?".

That's a fair point Josip, I'll grant you that. Perhaps, the honestly held desire to push the positives of a BID gets caught up in PR speak rather than in the clarity expressed above!

MODS: Sorry for going off topic a bit here!

Larbre34 · 13-02-2014 6:20pm

I voted Yes to the BID, but I think a result of 54.7% in favour is more likely to be divisive than progressive, a large minority can now say they have a mandate not to take part in it and in fairness to many of them you cant get blood from a stone...

Larbre34 · 13-02-2014 6:22pm

ricero wrote: »

Dun laoghaire has the holy trinity for junkies. The clinic, homeless shelter and a dole office

On behalf of the 300,000 who were gainfully employed up to 2008 and now arent (roughly speaking), I think thats offensive.

josip · 13-02-2014 6:33pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

I voted Yes to the BID...

Larbre34 wrote: »

On behalf of the 300,000 who were gainfully employed up to 2008 and now arent ...

Larbre, I don't mean to pry so tell me to fcuk off if it comes across that way

Are you an unemployed business owner? I can't reconcile your 2 posts.

rubadub · 13-02-2014 6:33pm

josip wrote: »

We have a small, non-retail business based in Dun Laoghaire.
The BID will be an additional cost of c.€500 pa to us.
Our customers never visit us, we always visit them.

Can someone please explain how the BID will benefit our business in any way?

Would need more info about the business & location.

55% of votes were in favour of the new scheme, with a massive 49% turn-out of voters, compared with just 39% in last October’s Seanad referendum.

49% is termed "massive", but 39% is "just"

josip · 13-02-2014 6:48pm

rubadub wrote: »

Would need more info about the business & location.

Software development, export market.
1 Black bin a month, specialist business insurance, own parking spaces.
Location Dun Laoghaire town, on the street formerly known as methadone alley...

The Reverend · 13-02-2014 8:06pm

RosieJoe wrote: »

No offense Rev but you are not offering any evidence. You have given us a tale of how the half way house came to be as an example of not trusting politicians or the OPW.

You then expect us to take the word of a Garda who lives beside you, saying that they have a vested interest in moving the clinic so that D/L Gardai don't have to "pick up the pieces". But if the clinic moves to KoG, then some other station has to "pick up the pieces" and they will have a vested interest in not having the clinic move up beside them.

And guess what, the Gardai are members of the public representatives and local bodies that you are asking us not to trust.

I will not believe that the clinic is moving to KoG until there is hard written proof, like PP or something similar, or they open it's doors to hand out methadone. Up until that point in time it is nothing but rumour, hear say and/or idle gossip.

RosieJoe. (2014). Negating Poster's making wild, unfounded statements with no evidence. Boards: Dublin.

No offence taken in fact I agree I have no documented evidence, not a shred.

My evidence is that I live on the road in question, and I was one of the individuals who met Andrews on George’s Road when he was canvassing for re-election. I remember the promises, as I’m sure does anyone else on this road, that there was not going to be no half way house.

Two months later building work started. The little f’ing weasel. I wouldn’t make this statement as there are probably a couple of hundred people living on this road and anyone of them could be on this thread and make a complete nonsense of what I’m saying, so I'm leaving myself wide open here.

Whilst I appreciate that anyone can stake claim to living on the road to back up their lack of evidence, you will notice that I am not on any other page giving my opinion about any other issues. I’m only on this one topic because it’s on my front door.

I’m not asking you to believe me, I’m just stating what I heard from a Garda and I’m reading every reply and piece of evidence being offered to me by fellow posters. However, the truth is that nobody appears knows for sure and like you, I will only believe anything when I see hard evidence.

My point is that this ‘hard evidence’ clearly wasn’t deemed necessary, nor made available to the locals, to build the half way house, and I’m not sure if the game has changed since then.

Now, here is something that is totally and completely without foundation or evidence. Are you ready? I was told that the methadone clinic opened in Dun Laoghaire without any warning or consultation with the local residents, and even more incredible was that it happened virtually overnight.

Does anyone know if this is true or not? The barman told me so it’s probably twaddle.

The Reverend · 13-02-2014 8:40pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I find it very amusing some posters on here believe that planning decisions are taken in an open, forthright manner where the public are notified in writing in advance of the proposal, the submission is subjected to some sort of independent review, and nothing happens before all interested parties have had their say.

As opposed to the proof of your own eyes from the last 20 years of wink-and-nod development in this country.

Planning laws apply to the ordinary sheep who want to change the gutters on the front of their house. Not to government projects or good old boyos with deep pockets and/or the ear of an egotistical local official.

This is precisely the point I am trying to make. There appear to be a lot of extremely naive posters on here who think that they will be consulted and kept informed each and every step of the way.

This proposed move of the clinic is an extremely emotive one which could cause local uproar, so anyone ringing up government offices expecting to hear the facts is living in la-la land.

ted1 · 14-02-2014 1:09am

josip wrote: »

Software development, export market.
1 Black bin a month, specialist business insurance, own parking spaces.
Location Dun Laoghaire town, on the street formerly known as methadone alley...

We moved our office to bray, much cheaper rent. There's some offices beside us for rent. Fairly basic but cheap.

the groutch · 14-02-2014 2:06am

josip wrote: »

We have a small, non-retail business based in Dun Laoghaire.
The BID will be an additional cost of c.€500 pa to us.
Our customers never visit us, we always visit them.

Can someone please explain how the BID will benefit our business in any way?

€500 x 804 = €402k to pay for more jobs for the boyos.

Dun Laoghaire Junkies

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