LPG for me?

MichaelR · 21-01-2014 12:08PM

I am doing over 20k km annually on this car, probably close to 25k. Most of it is 15-20 km trips, with 60-100 km happening once or twice a week.

stimpson · 21-01-2014 12:14PM

You should see a return on your investment in well under a year. Do you know what MPG you're getting?

MichaelR · 21-01-2014 12:23PM

I'm getting approximately 7.1 to 7.5l/100 km currently; 7.1 is what the onboard computer reports, but some measuring got me closer to 7.5, sometimes 7.8 even. 7.5 l/100 km, as the Internet tells me , translates to about 36 mpg.

I do see that people mostly LPG "luxury barges". I don't even want one. I have enough trouble parking already.

stimpson · 21-01-2014 12:52PM

MichaelR wrote: »

I'm getting approximately 7.1 to 7.5l/100 km currently; 7.1 is what the onboard computer reports, but some measuring got me closer to 7.5, sometimes 7.8 even. 7.5 l/100 km, as the Internet tells me , translates to about 36 mpg.

I do see that people mostly LPG "luxury barges". I don't even want one. I have enough trouble parking already.

Let's put some numbers on that...

I make 7.5l/100km = 37.7 mpg

LPG means you'll see a drop of ~20%, so 30 mpg, but as it's half price it works out at 60mpg equivalent or 4.7l/100km, a saving of 2.8l/100km

Over 25,000 km that will save you 700 litres of fuel. With petrol at 1.60 that works out at €1120

The main reason for converting larger cars is they are

a) thirsty
b) cheap to buy
c) comfortable
d) powerful

There is a small drop in BHP (~5%), so on a more powerful car it's less noticeable. Mine is somewhere inbetween - a 180bhp 2litre S60, as I didn't want to be hammered on tax it was a good compromise. That's not to say that you shouldn't convert a 1.4. When I was over in LPGain on Saturday I saw everything from a 6L Jag to a 1L Yaris fill up. If you can live with the slight drop in power you'll be fine.

MichaelR · 21-01-2014 01:08PM

Half price is a bit of an overstatement. I am in Limerick and the cheapest source here is at 0.87/L (I live just 10 minutes away from it, but on the minus side it's a detour). With petrol at 1.52, LPG is 0.57 x petrol.

With this correction you seem to confirm my own rough estimate of 1k Euro saving a year. This is why I have the budget limit for the conversion at that amount.

I'm torn between doing the Stag+Hana in Autogas in Cork (very much more convenient, and if something breaks or for service I just have to go to Cork not Dublin) and going to Palmerstown Dublin for the Romano (might be better).

stimpson · 21-01-2014 01:18PM

Fair enough - I'm paying 77.9c/litre for gas and 1.55.9 for petrol.

LPGain are doing a 200l free or €150 off deal at the moment

http://www.adverts.ie/car-motorbike-boat-services/car-gas-conversion-lpgain-tallaght/2485367

He did my 5cyl Volvo with 250bhp injectors for €1099 before Christmas - I would say he'd fit the Stag on a 1.4 4cyl for less than a grand.

MichaelR · 21-01-2014 01:35PM

In fact he quoted me 980 on the Stag plus Hana. The Cork lads seem to be giving that same quote although I'm waiting for them to come back with details.

The Dublin LPGain man said he installs in one day - there is some badmouthing of 1 day installs on UK LPG threads. Cork take a day and a half. Palmerstown/Romano, which is still the other option I'm looking at, takes 2 days, and I can guess the reason for the longer timing - Romano injectors are not on a rail and have to be adjusted individually.

stimpson · 21-01-2014 02:31PM

MichaelR wrote: »

In fact he quoted me 980 on the Stag plus Hana. The Cork lads seem to be giving that same quote although I'm waiting for them to come back with details.

The Dublin LPGain man said he installs in one day - there is some badmouthing of 1 day installs on UK LPG threads. Cork take a day and a half. Palmerstown/Romano, which is still the other option I'm looking at, takes 2 days, and I can guess the reason for the longer timing - Romano injectors are not on a rail and have to be adjusted individually.

A 1 day install for a 4 cylinder wouldn't concern me - they have a great reputation up here - do a search for LPGain and you find a few happy customers.

RR3.5 · 21-01-2014 02:50PM

I run a 4.3 v 8 doing 25k miles per year. I average 24 mpg on petrol, 18 on gas

goldenwonder · 21-01-2014 03:05PM

RR3.5 wrote: »

I run a 4.3 v 8 doing 25k miles per year. I average 24 mpg on petrol, 18 on gas

what car is that.
ive a 2.2 4cyl and does about that.
too bad tax wont come down with emissions for that.

RR3.5 · 21-01-2014 03:47PM

goldenwonder wrote: »

what car is that.
ive a 2.2 4cyl and does about that.
too bad tax wont come down with emissions for that.

LexusLS430

MichaelR · 21-01-2014 03:49PM

Did anyone deal with Aviva Direct insurance for LPG conversions recently? They are giving me a hard time, they say that after I do the work I have to submit the garage report (if not a separate engineers' report, not sure) and I'm not covered until they assess it. Which means I can't drive home from the garage. I'm trying to work around it by submitting information from the garage in advance but I am not sure if this can be done...

stimpson · 21-01-2014 04:00PM

MichaelR wrote: »

Did anyone deal with Aviva Direct insurance for LPG conversions recently? They are giving me a hard time, they say that after I do the work I have to submit the garage report (if not a separate engineers' report, not sure) and I'm not covered until they assess it. Which means I can't drive home from the garage. I'm trying to work around it by submitting information from the garage in advance but I am not sure if this can be done...

My insurance just said to email it in when I got it. LPGain had it ready when I picked up the car. See if it's OK to fax it in from the installer and drive off. That's pretty crappy of Aviva TBH. Might be worth ringing back to see if you can talk to someone with half a brain. Here's the cert I got:

MichaelR · 21-01-2014 04:05PM

Thanks!

I'm probably not going for LPGain specifically, because if I decide Stag/Hana is the way to go, Autogas Cork are extremely conveniently located for me. Though, of course, I could get the job done with LPGain and have services in Cork.

I called Aviva twice already and got this same result. I have now emailed them with the template letter from Autogas.

I really really don't want to drive without coverage at any time. At worst it can be a deal killer

Kevhog1988 · 21-01-2014 04:10PM

Is there a motor tax saving ??

goldenwonder · 21-01-2014 04:19PM

stimpson wrote: »

My insurance just said to email it in when I got it. LPGain had it ready when I picked up the car. See if it's OK to fax it in from the installer and drive off. That's pretty crappy of Aviva TBH. Might be worth ringing back to see if you can talk to someone with half a brain.

any chance yourinsurance is liberty?

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 21-01-2014 04:24PM

theemigrant wrote: »

Is there a motor tax saving ??

Yes
You buy less petrol therefore less tax

Kevhog1988 · 21-01-2014 05:27PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Yes
You buy less petrol therefore less tax

i meant road tax

stimpson · 21-01-2014 05:35PM

goldenwonder wrote: »

any chance yourinsurance is liberty?

Nope - Zurich.

stimpson · 21-01-2014 05:36PM

theemigrant wrote: »

Is there a motor tax saving ??

No.

jca · 21-01-2014 05:46PM

theemigrant wrote: »

Is there a motor tax saving ??

Nope it's Ireland... Everything is reassuringly expensive...:mad:

blancha · 21-01-2014 10:14PM

stimpson wrote: »

Fair enough - I'm paying 77.9c/litre for gas and 1.55.9 for petrol.

LPGain are doing a 200l free or €150 off deal at the moment

http://www.adverts.ie/car-motorbike-boat-services/car-gas-conversion-lpgain-tallaght/2485367
you found LPGain offer with date 13.01.2013... - it was one year ago...if I can count of course

Kevhog1988 · 21-01-2014 10:50PM

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251425625940?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

whats the most i should pay for this lads??

stimpson · 21-01-2014 11:07PM

It's illegal to do a self install in this country. Unlike the UK.

MichaelR · 21-01-2014 11:12PM

I'm currently leaning towards Autogas Ireland in Cork (not to be confused with Cork Gas Systems, although they seem to be physically not too far from each other). They are willing to work with insurance for me and they are also very convenient - the plan is for me to come into them and have them work out exact work plan and communicate it to Aviva, then try to get things approved so I can come down again for the job itself.

They do the Stag+Hana, same setup as what LPGain do, and they are partnered with LPGain. (They also do Prins - it's just that I can't really afford Prins). The Stag+Hana setup will take them a day and a half. The quote was 980 but it might end up higher as I am looking into valve saver and possibly a larger gas tank in the boot.

Any reason for me NOT to go that route?

APService are still an option but insurance is harder to work out in that case, because I can not go into them repeatedly.

Kevhog1988 · 21-01-2014 11:22PM

stimpson wrote: »

It's illegal to do a self install in this country. Unlike the UK.

I Live in the uk

stimpson · 21-01-2014 11:37PM

theemigrant wrote: »

I Live in the uk

Grand - you'll be a long way from me when you go boom!

mullingar · 22-01-2014 12:10AM

stimpson wrote: »

It's illegal to do a self install in this country. Unlike the UK.

BS

Source?????

I did mine DIY and got it certified after.

You might be confused about DOMESTIC gas work which is illegal, cars are not domestic.

MichaelR · 22-01-2014 06:54PM

Still having a hard time with Aviva. They want an "engineer's report" (not clear whether the report from the registered garage itself will do), and most problematically they apparently have to assess it AFTER the job is done - leaving me with no coverage and forcing me to leave the car in the garage while they do the assessment. As I have to travel to get the installation done, I really can't afford to go that route.

I am considering canceling Aviva and changing insurer. It appears that Liberty are willing to ensure LPG with a form from the garage, but their quote is significantly higher than what I paid Aviva last year. If I have to pay more for insurance, it eats into LPG economy. But then again I don't know if Aviva will quote higher this year anyway.

Delay the conversion until next insurance renewal?..

I probably should shop around other places asking for LPG coverage - which ones should I try except Liberty and Zurich? (And except the troublesome Aviva and its brokers, of course).

mullingar · 22-01-2014 07:23PM

MichaelR wrote: »

Still having a hard time with Aviva. They want an "engineer's report" (not clear whether the report from the registered garage itself will do), and most problematically they apparently have to assess it AFTER the job is done - leaving me with no coverage and forcing me to leave the car in the garage while they do the assessment. As I have to travel to get the installation done, I really can't afford to go that route.

I am considering canceling Aviva and changing insurer. It appears that Liberty are willing to ensure LPG with a form from the garage, but their quote is significantly higher than what I paid Aviva last year. If I have to pay more for insurance, it eats into LPG economy. But then again I don't know if Aviva will quote higher this year anyway.

Delay the conversion until next insurance renewal?..

I probably should shop around other places asking for LPG coverage - which ones should I try except Liberty and Zurich? (And except the troublesome Aviva and its brokers, of course).

I'd just send in the safety cert you got from the lpg installer. The insurance company probably just want something in writing from someone who is qualified to say the car is safe.

LPG for me?

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