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"Visiting escorts can save a marriage"

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    #62
    Chefrio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 120 ✭✭Chefrio


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I disagree. And how would one know when one arrived to avail of said services? The sex industry is supported by trafficing and violence. Some people may be in it of their own free will, but I'd say just as many are more or less in it under duress (sp?)

    Sounds like you have read too many daily mail articles.


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    #63
    Chefrio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 120 ✭✭Chefrio


    28064212 wrote: »
    That the man sleeping with the escort is equally guilty as a woman doing the same, and yet somehow I don't think smellslikeshoes would be happy with his wife going outside the marriage for her needs

    Thats a different scenario you described. The corresponding scenario would be a situation where the man was refusing sex so she went elsewhere. Not the worst thing in the world in my opinion. Its selfish for one party to refuse sex yet insist on "monogomy".


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    #64
    smellslikeshoes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    28064212 wrote: »
    That the man sleeping with the escort is equally guilty as a woman doing the same, and yet somehow I don't think smellslikeshoes would be happy with his wife going outside the marriage for her needs

    There is a small but significant difference between the example I used and the one you used. In the example I used the partner seeking the sex outside marriage was perfectly willing to have sex within the marriage but was being refused it. In the example you used the partner didn't want to have sex within the marriage so went outside of it.


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    #65
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #66
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    TOTRL?


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    #67
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    If everyone's happy with then it I'm happy with it. I don't get to decide how they conduct their marriage and relationships. That's entirely up to them.

    I love a happy ending!


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    #68
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #69
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Thanks.

    These people have presumably studied the subject, no? Or are they to be immeadiately disregared because there are nuns involved?


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    #70
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    I know of a couple who are still madly in love, who go everywhere together etc etc, except they don't have a sexual relationship.The male goes to a escort at least twice a month.

    When i asked him what does his partner say, he says they have both come to the conclusion that she is not intrested in sex,just doesent like it,not bothered anymore with it.So he does what he does and she doesent question it, Its not a discussion they have more like an acceptance, They seem on the outside a quite happy couple.


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    #71
    poundapunnet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭poundapunnet


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It's a banging tune though!

    And the rape crisis network and one in four are listed as contributors to the TOTRL campaign, no love lost between them and the nuns. I don't know anything about them but how come you dislike them so much?

    I'd be in favour of legalising and regulating prostitution really, as it's always going to be there and that'd be the way to minimise exploitation and control STDs. But due to the nature of it I don't think you could ever reasonably expect to fully eliminate exploitation, that's not propaganda, it's common sense.


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    #72
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,516 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HrMbxzLLcvs


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    #73
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I'm sure from the "everyone's consenting" point of view, it can work out. An escort works out measurably safer on a number of fronts; they will insist on protection, your partner is availing of a sexual service, so there's little risk of emotional involvement, i.e. no crazy phone calls at 4am from someone who's fallen in love with your partner (or vice versa), and no surprise babies that will have to be paid for.

    I'm pretty sure though that the "escort saved my marriage" line is mostly trotted out by people who haven't told their partner but believe that escorts are a morally better decision than picking up a one night stand.

    Ultimately though if you get married with the expectation of sexual contact between both of you, which is then denied or fizzles away, the marriage is already fundamentally damaged before anyone even thinks about going to an escort. Sexless marriages can work, but only when both parties have and accept that expectation. For most people, sex is a fundamental component of a healthy marriage because it reinforces the emotional bond. Withdrawal of it damages that emotional bond.


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    #74
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    I never understood why sex was such a big deal.

    I'm married. I like lots of stuff. So does my wife. Some stuff we both like, some stuff we disagree on. She likes books and movies that I don't like, and vice-versa....we have lots of different hobbies (and lots of shared ones too). I don't mind if she does something she likes with other people.

    I don't see why sex should be any different.

    And 'sex' isn't just one thing....there is a huge assortment of sexual activities that are made better or worse depending on your preferences. It's IMPOSSIBLE for one person to be able to do 'everything'. A lot of people have preferences that change over-time or that, occasionally, like something different. Even if a marriage isn't 'sexless' that doesn't mean it's perfect. If I'm not tall, dark and handsome, I can't fulfill a desire my wife might have for a tall, dark and handsome man anymore than a baseball bat can be a tennis racket or a computer can be a hammock. No matter how many ways you cook it, a carrot is still a carrot and maybe I want pizza tonight....

    With everything else, we're totally reasonable about things. If you want a fancy dinner, you can just pay someone to cook it and bring it to you. I'm not a good cook....but I don't care if my wife goes out to dinner. I'm not a great musician....but I don't care if my wife listens to professionals. I'm not a great doctor....but if my wife is sick, I'd rather she visit a professional who knows what he or she is doing. If my wife wants to play softball and I don't, I don't care if she plays softball with other people.

    I honestly don't get why people treat sex differently.


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    #75
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I never understood why sex was such a big deal.

    I'm married. I like lots of stuff. So does my wife. Some stuff we both like, some stuff we disagree on. She likes books and movies that I don't like, and vice-versa....we have lots of different hobbies (and lots of shared ones too). I don't mind if she does something she likes with other people.

    I don't see why sex should be any different.

    And 'sex' isn't just one thing....there is a huge assortment of sexual activities that are made better or worse depending on your preferences. It's IMPOSSIBLE for one person to be able to do 'everything'. A lot of people have preferences that change over-time or that, occasionally, like something different. Even if a marriage isn't 'sexless' that doesn't mean it's perfect. If I'm not tall, dark and handsome, I can't fulfill a desire my wife might have for a tall, dark and handsome man anymore than a baseball bat can be a tennis racket or a computer can be a hammock. No matter how many ways you cook it, a carrot is still a carrot and maybe I want pizza tonight....

    With everything else, we're totally reasonable about things. If you want a fancy dinner, you can just pay someone to cook it and bring it to you. I'm not a good cook....but I don't care if my wife goes out to dinner. I'm not a great musician....but I don't care if my wife listens to professionals. I'm not a great doctor....but if my wife is sick, I'd rather she visit a professional who knows what he or she is doing. If my wife wants to play softball and I don't, I don't care if she plays softball with other people.

    I honestly don't get why people treat sex differently.

    Sex is intimate. Softball isn't.


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    #76
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    realies wrote: »
    I know of a couple who are still madly in love, who go everywhere together etc etc, except they don't have a sexual relationship.The male goes to a escort at least twice a month.

    When i asked him what does his partner say, he says they have both come to the conclusion that she is not intrested in sex,just doesent like it,not bothered anymore with it.So he does what he does and she doesent question it, Its not a discussion they have more like an acceptance, They seem on the outside a quite happy couple.


    Highlighted the most important part of your post there realies.

    Like many of these scenarios, it could well be that his wife is happy her husband isn't pressuring her for sex, and he could well be happy that he's able to have sex when he pleases, but, it could also be the case that his wife merely prefers to turn a blind eye to her husband's sexual dalliances for the sake of keeping up the appearances of a happy marriage, and it could also well be that the husband is consoling himself with the idea that while she may not be his wife, at least an escort is better than nothing. He could much rather be having sex with his wife, but for the sake of keeping up the appearance of a happy marriage he's willing to tell everybody escorts saved his marriage.

    Only they would know the truth, and nobody likes admitting their failures or that they may just have fcuked up, so they'll make like they're blissfully happy and visiting escorts was something they planned for. I think it's safe to say it really wasn't!


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    #77
    Gambas
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭Gambas


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I never understood why sex was such a big deal.

    I'm married. I like lots of stuff. So does my wife. Some stuff we both like, some stuff we disagree on. She likes books and movies that I don't like, and vice-versa....we have lots of different hobbies (and lots of shared ones too). I don't mind if she does something she likes with other people.

    I don't see why sex should be any different.

    And 'sex' isn't just one thing....there is a huge assortment of sexual activities that are made better or worse depending on your preferences. It's IMPOSSIBLE for one person to be able to do 'everything'. A lot of people have preferences that change over-time or that, occasionally, like something different. Even if a marriage isn't 'sexless' that doesn't mean it's perfect. If I'm not tall, dark and handsome, I can't fulfill a desire my wife might have for a tall, dark and handsome man anymore than a baseball bat can be a tennis racket or a computer can be a hammock. No matter how many ways you cook it, a carrot is still a carrot and maybe I want pizza tonight....

    With everything else, we're totally reasonable about things. If you want a fancy dinner, you can just pay someone to cook it and bring it to you. I'm not a good cook....but I don't care if my wife goes out to dinner. I'm not a great musician....but I don't care if my wife listens to professionals. I'm not a great doctor....but if my wife is sick, I'd rather she visit a professional who knows what he or she is doing. If my wife wants to play softball and I don't, I don't care if she plays softball with other people.

    I honestly don't get why people treat sex differently.

    People treat sex differently because it is different. Very different from cooking, coughing or sports, or anything I can think of. Pretending otherwise is folly.


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    #78
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Marriage is an archaic social construct. It has been outmoded and undermined by increasing life-spans and other factors, not least the wide availability of divorce. Is it really any surprise that people seek sexual gratification outside the confines of a marriage?


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    #79
    poundapunnet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭poundapunnet


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I never understood why sex was such a big deal.

    I'm married. I like lots of stuff. So does my wife. Some stuff we both like, some stuff we disagree on. She likes books and movies that I don't like, and vice-versa....we have lots of different hobbies (and lots of shared ones too). I don't mind if she does something she likes with other people.

    I don't see why sex should be any different.

    And 'sex' isn't just one thing....there is a huge assortment of sexual activities that are made better or worse depending on your preferences. It's IMPOSSIBLE for one person to be able to do 'everything'. A lot of people have preferences that change over-time or that, occasionally, like something different. Even if a marriage isn't 'sexless' that doesn't mean it's perfect. If I'm not tall, dark and handsome, I can't fulfill a desire my wife might have for a tall, dark and handsome man anymore than a baseball bat can be a tennis racket or a computer can be a hammock. No matter how many ways you cook it, a carrot is still a carrot and maybe I want pizza tonight....

    With everything else, we're totally reasonable about things. If you want a fancy dinner, you can just pay someone to cook it and bring it to you. I'm not a good cook....but I don't care if my wife goes out to dinner. I'm not a great musician....but I don't care if my wife listens to professionals. I'm not a great doctor....but if my wife is sick, I'd rather she visit a professional who knows what he or she is doing. If my wife wants to play softball and I don't, I don't care if she plays softball with other people.

    I honestly don't get why people treat sex differently.

    In a committed relationship sex is more than just the physical process. I don't expect emotional and sexual intimacy from my doctor or musician I'm watching just like I don't expect my partner to give me antibiotics or put on a concert for me. They're totally different relationships. Sex is not just about performing to meet a need of your partner that any reasonably skilled person could do.


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    #80
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    SV wrote: »
    Sex is intimate. Softball isn't.

    Intimate is what you make it.

    If you ONLY sing in private, to your wife; your singing is an intimate act. If you sing on stage in front of millions - it isn't. That's by definition.

    If you have casual sex with lots of people, it isn't intimate. If you have sex in front of lots of people or with lots of people at once, it isn't intimate.

    In some cultures acquaintances casually kiss on the cheek - where I grew up kissing was for romantic couples because it was 'considered' intimate.

    It's all relative.


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    #81
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Thanks.

    These people have presumably studied the subject, no? Or are they to be immeadiately disregared because there are nuns involved?

    I've listened to a lot of sex workers speak out against them.

    Their fundamental position is that no-one is in sex work as a choice, which I know not to be true.

    By making buying sex illegal they make it more dangerous for the people who willingly entered sex work and far more dangerous for people who have been forced into it.


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    #82
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    Legs.Eleven wrote: »
    You automatically ruin your marriage by going off with an escort. It's the very definition of a ruined relationship that you would rather deceive your partner and sleep with someone else than either sort it out or end it. Getting your rocks off with a prostitute does nothing but scratch an itch and telling yourself it's anything more profound than that instead of admitting to yourself what it's really about makes you a selfish arsehole.

    Well they offer a decent massage service too apparently.


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    #83
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Gambas wrote: »
    People treat sex differently because it is different. Very different from cooking, coughing or sports, or anything I can think of. Pretending otherwise is folly.

    Then how do you explain the existence of....

    Casual sex
    Strip clubs
    Pornography
    Sex workers


    These things exist. And they are REALLY popular. Clearly *some* people feel that sex isn't such a private and intimate thing to be shared with your soulmate.


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    #84
    CK73
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭CK73


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    It happens an awful lot that people fool themselves into thinking their marriage was saved by merely having their sexual desires fulfilled by a third party. The only thing that saves a marriage is when the people involved in the marriage choose to work on their marriage. Otherwise they're best just call it a day and stop kidding themselves.

    What if there is nothing wrong with the marriage other than a basic lack of desire for sex by one party? If having gone through the Doctor there is still no desire, then should that partner have sex purely to accommodate the other person and how does the partner feel, knowing the person they are having sex with would rather be watching the football or a soap on the telly?

    Sometimes compromises need to be made.

    I also know of people that have had problems during childhood that mean they have a different outlook on life and needs to be met that your every day person just can't relate with. For these people to be able to function, they need an outlet. Is it not better to seek that outlet than life a lonely life, because without it they can't function properly or give their partner what they need?

    Nothing in life is black and white. People are complex and where it is easy to say that people should work at it, some things are not workable, but that does not mean they are unable to still have good functional relationships and give love within a relationship, if allowed to be a whole person, however that need is met.


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    #85
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Intimate is what you make it.

    If you ONLY sing in private, to your wife; your singing is an intimate act. If you sing on stage in front of millions - it isn't. That's by definition.

    If you have casual sex with lots of people, it isn't intimate. If you have sex in front of lots of people or with lots of people at once, it isn't intimate.

    In some cultures acquaintances casually kiss on the cheek - where I grew up kissing was for romantic couples because it was 'considered' intimate.

    It's all relative.

    It involves insertion or receiving of body parts and other bodily fluids. It's always going to be pretty intimate.


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    #86
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    poundapunnet wrote: »
    In a committed relationship sex is more than just the physical process. I don't expect emotional and sexual intimacy from my doctor or musician I'm watching just like I don't expect my partner to give me antibiotics or put on a concert for me. They're totally different relationships. Sex is not just about performing to meet a need of your partner that any reasonably skilled person could do.

    That's true of everything - not just sex. Going to a rugby match with your pa is going to be different than going with a new co-worker you just met. Having sex with a stranger isn't going to be the same has having it with someone you care about - but how is that different than having dinner?

    A meal my wife cooks carries some 'emotional meaning' with it, that McDonald's doesn't bring. But nobody will tell me I'm a bad husband if I want a Big Mac once and a while.


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    #87
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #88
    poundapunnet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭poundapunnet


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Then how do you explain the existence of....

    Casual sex
    Strip clubs
    Pornography
    Sex workers


    These things exist. And they are REALLY popular. Clearly *some* people feel that sex isn't such a private and intimate thing to be shared with your soulmate.

    Sex is a physical act, a need most adults have, but it's also the basis of what makes romantic relationships, including marriages different from other relationships. I've had sex with a couple dozen people, but sex in a loving relationship is a completely different kettle of fish and one where you assume exclusive rights. Again unless it's otherwise agreed by both parties.


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    #89
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    SV wrote: »
    It involves insertion or receiving of body parts and other bodily fluids. It's always going to be pretty intimate.

    Only if you treat it as such....

    Athletes, depending on the sport, will frequently touch large numbers of men/women they've never met in places they'd be arrested for touching someone on DublinBus. But it's not considered intimate because they don't care, they do it all the time, and it's not a big deal for them.

    The food you eat goes awfully far inside you too; but I don't care who makes my pizza before I order it.


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    #90
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Then how do you explain the existence of....

    Casual sex
    Strip clubs
    Pornography
    Sex workers


    These things exist. And they are REALLY popular. Clearly *some* people feel that sex isn't such a private and intimate thing to be shared with your soulmate.

    Your dismissal of the point being made by citing such activities as casual sex etc. is perturbing to me.... it makes me wonder if you are being facetious in order to promote a relativistic point of view at any cost. It should be obvious that the activities you list are just substitutes for the real thing, for normal people anyway.


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    #91
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Which is my point. Sexual acts do not have to be intimate anymore than watching a movie has to be.


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