Garda charged for pepper spraying teen..

07-01-2014 03:33PM

cosy_deal wrote: »

most members of AGS are farmers sons and daughters , why do people act surprised when their not the most nuanced and subtle of people ?

Racism is not acceptable in any form, especially not from those supposedly upholding the peace.

bobwilliams · 07-01-2014 03:37PM

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Two things I'd hate to be in this country- sick or a Garda.

it's their choice, problem is imo phscho testing the garda bosses do obviously doesn't ween out enough goons that just just look at it as a secure job.
You need to be a certain type of person to become a cop in any country,from my experience we on average have a poor force compared to other countrys I've lived in.
Even the brit cops are streets ahead of our guys.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 07-01-2014 03:37PM

cosy_deal wrote: »

most members of AGS are farmers sons and daughters , why do people act surprised when their not the most nuanced and subtle of people ?

Eh? Former's or farmers?
Either way, not sure it's the best way to judge someone.

Valetta · 07-01-2014 03:38PM

cosy_deal wrote: »

most members of AGS are farmers sons and daughters , why do people act surprised when their not the most nuanced and subtle of people ?

Utter tripe.

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 03:44PM

NOW I, MARY ROBINSON, President of Ireland, do hereby, on the advice of the Government, pardon the said Edward Noel Kelly in respect of the said convictions and wholly remit the said punishments of twelve years penal servitude to which the said Edward Noel Kelly was sentenced as aforesaid to the intent that he shall henceforth stand released and discharged from all penalties, forfeitures and disqualifications incident to or consequent on the said convictions, as if he had not been charged or convicted.

.

cosy_deal wrote: »

an incredibly smug yet naïve attitude , the guards stitch people up on a regular basis and decent people at that , im not talking about framing people

for murder though the carry on in Donegal was in that ballpark , I know a guy who was tormented by AGS for the simple reason he fell out with someone who had connections high up in the force , the guy was assaulted on his own property by this individual yet he was the one who got a conviction , guards pushed for it and the local judge is a renowned nutter , he didn't go to jail but got a 3 k fine , now granted he had the most useless legal team in the country but that's beside the point

its dangerous when people think police should have unconditional support

There is no doubt that the Gardai have stitched people up and it is well documented. The
most famous is perhaps the Sallins Mail Train case and in Particular the Conviction of Nicky
Kelly.
Donegal is another example but remember that senior Gardai were involved in these miscarriages of justice as in Donegal where Justice Morris put the most blame on Superintendent John O'Connor.
The Gardai should have support but caution needs to be applied is so farcas senior Gardai are involved.

NOW I, MARY ROBINSON, President of Ireland, do hereby, on the advice of the Government, pardon the said Edward Noel Kelly in respect of the said convictions and wholly remit the said punishments of twelve years penal servitude to which the said Edward Noel Kelly was sentenced as aforesaid to the intent that he shall henceforth stand released and discharged from all penalties, forfeitures and disqualifications incident to or consequent on the said convictions, as if he had not been charged or convicted.

It was one of the most notorious miscarriages of justice in the history of this State yet there has never been an inquiry into how an innocent man signed a confession to one of the biggest mail train robberies in Ireland and was kept in jail by the Courts despite exhausting the appellate jurisdiction, as a chief justice put it. Yet, though in a 1992 presidential pardon Nicky Kelly was described as being as innocent as though never charged in relation to the 1978 Sallins mail train robbery, the Gardas conduct of its investigation in the case has never been explained nor has that of a judiciary which sentenced him to 12 years penal servitude and kept in jail, despite appeal after appeal, until there was political intervention. Nicky Kelly was failed at every turn by the justice agencies of this State. In an age when the most powerful democracy in the world has shown scant regard for basic justice rights, it is timely to ask where are the mechanisms in Ireland to prevent a possible repeat of the Nicky Kelly case.

Source Patsy McGarry, while justice slept. Though I alwayscthought it was 1976.

MonaPizza · 07-01-2014 03:48PM

bumper234 wrote: »

So they should have used the softly softly approach? Offered him sweets and a round table discussion about his issues? He was being arrested and he resisted ergo he deserved to be sprayed. The only thing wrong here is it's not done enough.

Why when one criticises the level of police force applied in a situation the counter argument is always that you must favour hugging the individual, giving him sweets, maybe his own reality show?

Why is that?

Just because you have a problem with the police using excessive force does NOT equate to you wanting to abolish the law and punishment and just let people do what they want.
Smearing people with those kind of sneers is a very dangerous way of getting people to accept that the only solution to any transgression is overwhelming force.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 07-01-2014 03:55PM

timmy4u2 wrote: »

There is no doubt that the Gardai have stitched people up and it is well documented.

I don't think you'd get many that would say otherwise.
But "the guards stitch people up on a regular basis" is a ridiculous argument to make by cosy_deal

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 04:01PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wife was mugged in the city centre and lost her wallet.

My wife is a non national and is required to have a GNIB card, which was lost during the mugging.
We went to make a statement before applying for a new card(as is the process)

My wife approached the counter in the station and I remained seated(she can speak for herself so i didnt need feel the need to speak for her).

The garda instantly became aggressive to her when she told him what she wanted and he made several remarks to her

"how do you people always lose these cards" .......
"everyday i have your kind losing these cards how do you lose so many"

Im not sure whether the garda was asking my wife on behalf of all foriegn nationals in Ireland or just her particular nations citizens, either way Im not sure why he thought my wife the victim of a robbery was suddenly a spokeperson for any group of people.

If i had been robbed and the garda said similiar things to me I would be offended but the way he said these things to my wife was clearly racist.

After these remarks i stood up and spoke and said the exact same thing my wife has saifd initially (she was mugged wallet was taken) and his attitude changed his tone softened and he now dealt with the matter in a normal manner. (asked where the incident happened etc)

He then mumbled something about having to deal with so many of these cases and it being annoying or some other guff.

What is most annoying is how his atitude changed instantly once i spoke, and left me wondering how my wife would have been treated had i not been present.

All I can see from reading your post is that the Garda has experience of foreign nationals loosing their cards. There is no doubt that a scam was operating in this regard and he is obliged to ask questions in this regard. In fact the "Judges Rules"allowed a Garda to ask questions of anybody whether suspect or not....so nothing wrong there and whenvyou corrobrated her evidence he dealt with the matter in a polite manner.

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 04:10PM

cosy_deal wrote: »

your joking right ?

attaining a conviction against someone is good for a guards career prospects

rank and file do what their told by top brass , if the message is sent down that some guy is to be given a pass , its done , the guy I know who got a conviction despite being assaulted on his own property , the guy who did it to him drove a northern reg car with no motor tax for five years , all because he had pull , that's a relatively small example of cronyism

Are you serious? A district court conviction good for a Garda's career. That is just trivial stuff.
A Garda's duty is to bring the facts before the court and allow the Justice to make up his own mind.
A garda who may have a desire to get into the Traffic Corps may be assessed on part on his DETECTION rate not on his successful prosecution rate as a Garda desiring to get into the Drugs Unit will be part assessed on his drug detection rate. :rolleyes:

07-01-2014 04:10PM

timmy4u2 wrote: »

All I can see from reading your post is that the Garda has experience of foreign nationals loosing their cards. There is no doubt that a scam was operating in this regard and he is obliged to ask questions in this regard. In fact the "Judges Rules"allowed a Garda to ask questions of anybody whether suspect or not....so nothing wrong there and whenvyou corrobrated her evidence he dealt with the matter in a polite manner.

Cop on to yourself!
There was no obvious scam!
The garda may ask questions but when perfomring a function i dont think judges rules allow garda to make racist or perjorative comments.

Asking my wifes opinion on how a group of unrelated people lost their id is in no way useful.

I didnt corroborate her comments as I didnt witness her mugging, so at best i repeated what she had said, only it was said by a white european of seeming irish birth.
In fact if the garda was perfomring his function correctly he should have asked was i a witness, and when i replied "no" he should have dealt with my wifes statement in isolation.
My input in the discussion should have been to merely act as a bystander.

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 04:22PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Cop on to yourself!
There was no obvious scam!
The garda may ask questions but when perfomring a function i dont think judges rules allow garda to make racist or perjorative comments.

Asking my wifes opinion on how a group of unrelated people lost their id is in no way useful.

I didnt corroborate her comments as I didnt witness her mugging, so at best i repeated what she had said, only it was said by a white european of seeming irish birth.
In fact if the garda was perfomring his function correctly he should have asked was i a witness, and when i replied "no" he should have dealt with my wifes statement in isolation.
My input in the discussion should have been to merely act as a bystander.

You read too much into the situation as you are reading too much into my post.
I did not say your wife was involved in a scam but there has been fraudulant use of such cards in thecpast.
Nothing in your post suggests racism on behalf of the Garda

07-01-2014 04:31PM

timmy4u2 wrote: »

You read too much into the situation as you are reading too much into my post.
I did not say your wife was involved in a scam but there has been fraudulant use of such cards in thecpast.
Nothing in your post suggests racism on behalf of the Garda

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The particular garda station is the closest station to the GNIB office in dublin and as such it will deal with these lost GNIB card claims all the time.
For you to infer there is some obvious scam without any evidence is laughable, what scam using GNIB cards do you know of?
The GNIB card itself is no use without the supporting passport, so Im not sure what scam a GNIB card could even be used for, but i suppose you do?

The garda made obviously racist comments and when he was speakng to an asian woman on her own his manner was aggressive and abusive, for that to change so quickly when a white european begins speaking implies quite a lot.
As does his addrssing my wife as "you people"! What could possibly be meant by "you people"?

This garda should not allow his personal feelings to influence the functioning of his job which it was doing in this instance.

07-01-2014 04:44PM

Anyway this instance highlighted to me the very obvious racism which is tolerated even acceptable in the garda.
The data from the student garda survey added to this thread earlier further highlights the major issue we have with racism as present in the garda. You can try and deny it but it is there and it will not be dealt with until people accept first that it exists and is unacceptable

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 04:52PM

Kane Strong University wrote: »

I don't think you'd get many that would say otherwise.
But "the guards stitch people up on a regular basis" is a ridiculous argument to make by cosy_deal

Correct that is why I left out regular basis and records will show that it is senior officers that are fingered in the stitching up. Rank and file have no reason or benefit to gain from such practices.

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 05:10PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The particular garda station is the closest station to the GNIB office in dublin and as such it will deal with these lost GNIB card claims all the time.
For you to infer there is some obvious scam without any evidence is laughable, what scam using GNIB cards do you know of?
The GNIB card itself is no use without the supporting passport, so Im not sure what scam a GNIB card could even be used for, but i suppose you do?

The garda made obviously racist comments and when he was speakng to an asian woman on her own his manner was aggressive and abusive, for that to change so quickly when a white european begins speaking implies quite a lot.
As does his addrssing my wife as "you people"! What could possibly be meant by "you people"?

This garda should not allow his personal feelings to influence the functioning of his job which it was doing in this instance.

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): Information on Dermot Ahern Zoom on Dermot Ahern The person concerned has been granted temporary permission to remain in the State under the IBC/05 scheme, [437]renewed until 5 October 2010. The person’s passport and GNIB card were retained by An Garda Síochána at Dublin Airport on 1 December 2008 when presented by a third party in an attempt to effect entry into the State. There is no record of the person concerned having reported their passport, which is the property of the person’s Embassy, or their GNIB card as missing or stolen.

justvone incident. Harder now at the major airports since they became biometric.

Darkmire · 07-01-2014 05:15PM

As some one who worked in a job that dealt with the gardai on a regular basis,i can tell you ''some'' of them are on a big time power trip and are actually a danger to society,they give the gardai a bad name and cause needless problems for the public.

The old excuses of ''guards are only human'' doesnt cut it,as most of them are great,but the few bad eggs dont deserve any support or protection just because they are gards!

07-01-2014 05:41PM

timmy4u2 wrote: »

justvone incident. Harder now at the major airports since they became biometric.

You use one case from 2008 as evidence of a scam :eek::eek:
also in your one example the person was arrested oh and biometrics was brought in for GNIB cards in 2006.

So i ask again what scam was it the garda was aware of that no one else seems to be aware of.

As the article you linked to and as i was aware, the GNIB card is useless unless you have the matching passport oh yes and your finger prints match those assigned to the gnib card in question.

Seems like there isn't much of a scam here at all is there? :eek:
So why the racist remarks by the garda, can you qualify his use of the words "you people", what could he possible have meant by that?

Santa Cruz · 07-01-2014 05:49PM

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Another controversial failure on the part of the Ombudsman. Amazing that the DPP gave the go ahead initially.

Someone justifying their exhorbitant salaries.

Santa Cruz · 07-01-2014 05:51PM

SV wrote: »

Pepper sprayed while he was incapacitated? They deserve to have the book thrown at them.

Looks who's a scrote now

Santa Cruz · 07-01-2014 05:56PM

tdv123 wrote: »

Free Staters using brutality against innocent people, nothing new here anyway.

Has the Queen''s subject anything intelligent to say? If not go back to your Princess Di scrapbook

Santa Cruz · 07-01-2014 05:58PM

cosy_deal wrote: »

most members of AGS are farmers sons and daughters e ?

How did you come to that idiotic conclusion? Overdosing in stereotypes again?
And all Dublin 4 are children of Barristers and Consultants. Check out your facts

SV · 07-01-2014 06:24PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Looks who's a scrote now

Excuse me? If they did what it's still being claimed they did then they do deserve the book thrown at them because it's a scummy thing to do.

catallus · 07-01-2014 06:28PM

Maybe a large part of the confusion about this issue is the failure of a lot of people (including, it seems here, the DPP) to acknowledge that the violence carried out by a policeman is essentially different to the violence wrought by a criminal.

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 06:29PM

oh and biometrics was brought in for GNIB cards in 2006.

I was referring to the new SITA biometric gates at the airport. They came into being mid 2013. Perhaps I did not make that as clear as I should have.
I am not going to argue further on a non event where there is no evidence of a racist remark

DwightSchrute1 · 07-01-2014 06:30PM

SV wrote: »

Excuse me? If they did what it's still being claimed they did then they do deserve the book thrown at them because it's a scummy thing to do.

You're right, i am sure you have more knowledge about this incident then the DPP :rolleyes:

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 06:33PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Someone justifying their exhorbitant salaries.

As I said elsewhere it may have come from the Waterford City case not too long ago where the Judge convicted and the conviction was upheld on appeal.
However the circumstances were totally different in this instance

timmy4u2 · 07-01-2014 06:39PM

SV wrote: »

Excuse me? If they did what it's still being claimed they did then they do deserve the book thrown at them because it's a scummy thing to do.

How can you argue that. The DPP withdrew and the Justice exonerated the Gardai.
BTW Was the "teenager" charged and brought before the courts for his misdemeanours.

SV · 07-01-2014 06:53PM

DwightSchrute1 wrote: »

You're right, i am sure you have more knowledge about this incident then the DPP :rolleyes:

When did I say that?

If what is claimed is true then my statement stands. It has never been denied either. The DPP just dropped it.

SV · 07-01-2014 07:06PM

pah wrote: »

Nobody is denying that he was pepper sprayed while handcuffed. Your opinion is that it was scummy? The Gardas opinion at the time is that it was necessary and really that's all that matters, the Gardas opinion at the time with all the facts right there in front of them, not your sh1tty keyboard opinion weeks later in hindsight with little or no facts.

Good man yourself.

Keyboard opinion? The opinion of a keyboard? Lol..ok.

Yeah pepper praying someone whilst they're handcuffed is always gonna be scummy. Whether they believe it was necessary or not.

The amount of people who believe Gardas are infallible is scary.

Darkmire · 07-01-2014 07:22PM

SV wrote: »

The amount of people who believe Gardas are infallible is scary.

I know i cant wait until they run in to the wrong one.

Garda charged for pepper spraying teen..

Comments