Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2013

1…457910…53

Comments

  • #182
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Open A wrote: »
    By the way, a debate about all of this stuff is just starting online..

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/bregsforum
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/BRegs-Forum/717318874946169?fref=ts

    Are you the mod on those sites?


  • #183
    joeirish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭joeirish


    kceire wrote: »
    How did you lodge a commencement notice with filling in the builders details in the space provided for? Whose name did you put down as a site contact?

    Sounds like you made a hash of the CN to be honest.

    Thanks for the very unhelpful comment.


  • #184
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    joeirish wrote: »
    Thanks for the very unhelpful comment.

    I'm serious.

    How did you lodge a commencement notice weeks ago if you haven't got a builder selected? The builders details must go on the notice.

    You also have to give the details of the person that can be contacted about foundations.

    That's why I asked how did you lodge a CN when you haven't even got a builder selected?


  • #185
    joeirish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭joeirish


    kceire wrote: »
    I'm serious.

    How did you lodge a commencement notice weeks ago if you haven't got a builder selected? The builders details must go on the notice.

    You also have to give the details of the person that can be contacted about foundations.

    That's why I asked how did you lodge a CN when you haven't even got a builder selected?

    You have made various assumptions. Like the council wanted details of a builder. This is a self build project, with a timber frame house being bought, which includes foundations (subject to the ground being cleared first). The council must've been happy with the information I gave. Otherwise they wouldn't have issued the CN, would they? Anyway, that has nothing to do with my initial question. I have a CN, end of.

    So if you can add anything to my original question, then thanks. Otherwise there isn't really much for you to say, I'd have thought.


  • #186
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    joeirish wrote: »
    You have made various assumptions. Like the council wanted details of a builder. This is a self build project, with a timber frame house being bought, which includes foundations (subject to the ground being cleared first). The council must've been happy with the information I gave. Otherwise they wouldn't have issued the CN, would they? Anyway, that has nothing to do with my initial question. I have a CN, end of.

    So if you can add anything to my original question, then thanks. Otherwise there isn't really much for you to say, I'd have thought.

    The council don't issue a CN. You lodge one with them. Giving them the details of your builder and on site contacts.

    Are you actually sure you have lodged a CN.

    What county are you in?


    Edit : so your on the Clare/Galway border.

    Clare County Council CN, that YOU must lodge to them - http://www.clarecoco.ie/emergency-services/forms/commencement-notice-form-1409.pdf

    Galway - http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/Planning/ApplicationForms/FilesTable/TheFile,10519,en.pdf


  • Advertisement
  • #187
    joeirish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭joeirish


    kceire wrote: »
    The council don't issue a CN. You lodge one with them. Giving them the details of your builder and on site contacts.

    Are you actually sure you have lodged a CN.

    What county are you in?


    Edit : so your on the Clare/Galway border.

    Clare County Council CN, that YOU must lodge to them - http://www.clarecoco.ie/emergency-services/forms/commencement-notice-form-1409.pdf

    Galway - http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/Planning/ApplicationForms/FilesTable/TheFile,10519,en.pdf

    Yes, I did lodge the CN and the council accepted it and sent me a letter saying that the CN is valid according to Article 9 of the Building control Regulations 1997. So yes you are technically correct that I lodged the CN but it is a useless document unless the council accept it. My point is that as they have accepted it there is no reason to keep on about whether it contained the right information or not. You seem to be trying to demonstrate that it was somehow not a proper CN. You seem more intent on proving some other point.

    So just to repeat, there is a CN, it has been accepted as valid by the council. Nothing more to add to that. Now can we move the discussion back to my original question?


  • #188
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    joeirish wrote: »
    Yes, I did lodge the CN and the council accepted it and sent me a letter saying that the CN is valid according to Article 9 of the Building control Regulations 1997. So yes you are technically correct that I lodged the CN but it is a useless document unless the council accept it. My point is that as they have accepted it there is no reason to keep on about whether it contained the right information or not. You seem to be trying to demonstrate that it was somehow not a proper CN. You seem more intent on proving some other point.

    So just to repeat, there is a CN, it has been accepted as valid by the council. Nothing more to add to that. Now can we move the discussion back to my original question?

    That's fine, but the way you worded your posts made it sound like you hadn't. Your asking for advice on an Internet forum, so sometimes people need more information before giving advice.

    If your this short with everybody else, then good luck.


  • #189
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    right lads back on track 'Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2013'


  • #190
    joeirish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭joeirish


    So, an update, which might be helpful to others.

    The council building control are quite happy about a "couple of weeks" delay to starting building after the end date of the CN. And even if we still didn't mange to start works the only thing we would have to do is submit another CN and pay a fee of 25% of the original fee. No problems at all. This happens all the time. Only thing is to get started before March 1st to avoid new regs. And opening up the site, putting in some sort of driveway would count as the start of works, even if we then got delayed on the build of the actual house.

    Thanks for all the helpful comments.


  • #191
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    Brave Harvey wrote: »
    I had a look at the Building control act 2007, I may give it another look but I think I may have to undertake a Professional Practice Exam!! I never heard of this, I have a Diploma max. and 4 and a half years supervised experience, don't know if that's recognized supervision. Any information on the above would be appreciated.:confused:

    I'm afraid you are correct. There has been very little information put out there for people. Lots of people in your position and many others planning to build next year who are not aware that they will not be able to lodge a commencement notice

    Join the debate (started yesterday!)
    https://twitter.com/bregsforum
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/BRegs-Forum/717318874946169?fref=ts
    http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/


  • Advertisement
  • #192
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Open A wrote: »
    I'm afraid you are correct. There has been very little information put out there for people. Lots of people in your position and many others planning to build next year who are not aware that they will not be able to lodge a commencement notice

    Join the debate (started yesterday!)
    https://twitter.com/bregsforum
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/BRegs-Forum/717318874946169?fref=ts
    http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/
    whats wrong with debating it here:)


  • #193
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    Nothing at all, indeed I'll share this debate on the Blog!


  • #194
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,575 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    industry stakeholder amendments to SI 80 below

    and, industry stakeholder amendments to proposed code for practise for assigned certifiers.
    This is the first time many architects / engineers / surveyors will have seen whats included in this COP


  • #195
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    revised SI 80 published

    and, amended code for practise for assigned certifiers.


    first impressions when it comes to self builders, it refers to a Construction Industry Register Ireland Registration No. (where applicable).

    These are the industry stakeholder amendments and haven't been agreed by the DECLG


  • #196
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,575 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Open A wrote: »
    These are the industry stakeholder amendments and haven't been agreed by the DECLG

    thanks for the clarification, ill edit my post to reflect his


  • #197
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    no problem :-)


  • #198
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    Self-building to be phased out under the New Regulations:
    http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/2013/12/04/self-builders-to-be-phased-out-under-s-i-80-bregs/


  • #199
    martinn123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭martinn123


    Open A wrote: »
    Self-building to be phased out under the New Regulations:
    http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/2013/12/04/self-builders-to-be-phased-out-under-s-i-80-bregs/

    Well written piece, however Self-Building is still ok until 2015
    Self-builders will be required under S.I.80, as clients, to employ a design certifier and assigned certifier (engineer/ architect/ building surveyor)- this is positive as it is unwise for a technically non-experienced person to undertake self-building without professional input. This should be welcomed as a positive development.

    If a client is going to be the builder, currently that’s fine- self-builders can nominate themselves (as long as they consider themselves to be ‘competent’ and as builders are currently unregistered this seems to work well for self-builders. The only persons precluded from operating as contractors are Architects.

    So, S.I.80 at the moment can only improve the quality of self-builds.

    However when a formal register of builders is introduced in 2015 self-builders will need to meet the criteria to become registered, or will be precluded from this role. The criteria more than likely is a minimum of 3 years relevant building experience, tax affairs in order, relevant insurances in place etc.

    So, in 12 months self-building will no longer be possible unless the self-builder is already an established experienced contractor, with their own insurances and tax-clearance documents etc. People who want to undertake works themselves are no longer able to do so. One unintended consequence of this is that rural landowners with some building experience who are capable of managing sub-contractors will no longer be able to inhabit this role- they will be forced down the more expensive route of appointing a main contractor to domestic or other projects that require planning permission (farm buildings, outhouses etc.)

    Remember these are still draft reg's not signed into law yet, and there are plenty of bodies still making observations.


  • #200
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    martinn123 wrote: »
    Well written piece, however Self-Building is still ok until 2015


    Remember these are still draft reg's not signed into law yet, and there are plenty of bodies still making observations.

    You are absolutely right, but the Minister is expected to sign off on the current wording this week or next week. After that, we may be too late to do anything about it.

    I'm a contributor to the BRegs Forum, do you know any other bodies making observations? We are trying to add more voices to our call for postponement and amendment of the proposed regs.. Thanks!


  • #201
    martinn123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭martinn123


    Open A wrote: »
    You are absolutely right, but the Minister is expected to sign off on the current wording this week or next week. After that, we may be too late to do anything about it.

    I'm a contributor to the BRegs Forum, do you know any other bodies making observations? We are trying to add more voices to our call for postponement and amendment of the proposed regs.. Thanks!

    From, as linked to by yourselves,

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/lessons-of-priory-hall-1.1560524#.Ulz2rgUnGr6.twitter
    But Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan cannot avoid dealing equitably with the wider issue of building control. The amended regulations made by him do not go far enough, as they leave architects or engineers exposed to personal liability by certifying that the buildings they have designed comply with the regulations in every respect.

    This is particularly unfair in the context of a building industry that remains largely unregulated, with only a commitment to introduce registration for contractors on a voluntary basis with a view to making it a statutory requirement in 2015 – if the Construction Industry Federation will agree.
    Widespread unease among architects about the way some believe they are being “hung out to dry” led to several former presidents of the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland (RIAI) to call an extraordinary general meeting of its members in Dublin tonight. What galls those involved is the apparent determination of the Department of the Environment to evade any responsibility on the part of the State or local authorities for failing to ensure that buildings are being built in compliance with the regulations, through regular inspections during the course of construction.

    This disgraceful evasion must end.

    Looks like the Irish Times is onside as well.


  • Advertisement
  • #202
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    Its true, there has been some media coverage.. but Minister Hogan intends to push ahead with these Regs regardless: http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/property-homes/home-truths-29792949.html

    We need more people to wake up to the reality of what the regs do.. and don't do.. and make some noise! Ultimately the strongest argument is that the regs do not protect the consumer. Judging by the title of the Independent article, people won't come aware the regs inadequacies until it is too late


  • #203
    martinn123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭martinn123


    Well in fairness to the participants on this Forum, it's been discussed here since
    8/4/13

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84045431&postcount=1

    Not sure if anyone, canvassed the Dept,


  • #204
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    I know it has been discussed here. Its being discussed in a lot of places, but it seems like we are all being ignored...

    I thought these articles are particularly pertinent:
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/highly-unlikely-priory-hall-would-happen-in-britain-171533.html
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6feb1716-575e-11e3-b615-00144feabdc0.html

    Meanwhile, Phil Hogan continues with the argument that Building Control has nothing to do with the Government and is for the industry to sort out..


  • #205
    kkelliher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭kkelliher


    Open A wrote: »
    Its being discussed in a lot of places, but it seems like we are all being ignored...

    Is that not what vested interests generally do?:D


  • #206
    Open A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Open A


    I'm on the BRegs Forum online team. Trying our best to reach out to as many people and organisations as possible. People are starting to listen, but very slowly. Also, we've reached out to Phil Hogan directly. Might as well...


  • #207
    W123-80's
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭W123-80's


    I understand somewhat the theory behind these new reg.
    It just seems over the top to completely stop self builders from doing just that.

    In any other walk of life I can pretty much do/make for myself what I want once it's legal and I operate to whatever standards are required.

    Why am I not allowed to build a house for myself?

    If I meet all regulations, have an engineer sign off that all requirements are met, why do I HAVE to employ a third party/middle man do do these checks for me.

    At the end of the day most contractors will sub contract. Why can I not cut the contractor/middle man out, meet all regulations and build my own house.

    It seems very unfair to me.


  • #208
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,575 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Open A wrote: »
    I'm on the BRegs Forum online team. Trying our best to reach out to as many people and organisations as possible. People are starting to listen, but very slowly. Also, we've reached out to Phil Hogan directly. Might as well...


    the professionals know quite well whats happening... and as far as i can see it most are rebelling against it.

    however Big Phil sees this as his "smoking ban" moment and is not going to stray from his path, he is possibly the most stubborn of all ministers, judging by his track record.

    The only way this will hit national headlines and into the publics mind is issues such as this .... and also it needs a full boycott from professionals against this SI so that all public jobs stop until the issues are resolved.

    Imagine a scenario where public funding is appropriated, planning in place, tenders sent out for professional services but no tenders are received??
    The public would go mad, and thats exactly what is needed. That would focus their minds to think about their possible build in the future, or their children, and how this SI would affect them. No direct labour, increased inspection costs, increased design costs.... and for what??? absolutely no further protection against non compliance as currently exists and with the only recourse of action through the courts and possibly against a dissolved company.....


  • #209
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,575 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    W123-80's wrote: »
    I understand somewhat the theory behind these new reg.
    It just seems over the top to completely stop self builders from doing just that.

    In any other walk of life I can pretty much do/make for myself what I want once it's legal and I operate to whatever standards are required.

    Why am I not allowed to build a house for myself?

    If I meet all regulations, have an engineer sign off that all requirements are met, why do I HAVE to employ a third party/middle man do do these checks for me.

    At the end of the day most contractors will sub contract. Why can I not cut the contractor/middle man out, meet all regulations and build my own house.

    It seems very unfair to me.

    hypothetically, how can show your competence for compliance of the regulations?

    this isnt a challenge, its actually what all prospective self builders would have to do.


  • #210
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    this all great but.. the disgust people here have towards this new legislation is pointless. how about every time someone posts about it here, they also send a mail to minster hogan copying their local TDs and council representatives!
    Website: www.philhogan.ie Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/PhilHoganTD
    Email: philip.hogan@oireachtas.ie


  • Advertisement
  • #211
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the professionals know quite well whats happening... and as far as i can see it most are rebelling against it.

    however Big Phil sees this as his "smoking ban" moment and is not going to stray from his path, he is possibly the most stubborn of all ministers, judging by his track record.
    +1
    i wish he had off picked a better smoking ban/flagship legislation


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement