Filthy atheists stealing our Christmas

robindch · 13-11-2013 10:27pm

I'm staying up to watch the Bond Movie.

J C · 13-11-2013 11:26pm

wrote:

robindch
Being a good bible-believing "christian", you won't be putting up a tree, will you, JC?

Hi Robin.
Firstly, Happy Christmas ... I know it may be a little early to offer Seasonal Greetings ... but given the thread that's in it ... why not?

Secondly, I'm answering your question, even though it isn't on the topic of the thread, because you have asked it.
Therefore, could I ask that nobody come along subsequently to accuse me of 'de-railing' the thread ... when all I have done is answered your questions.
Anyway, to answer your question ... I will of course, as a liberal Christian, be putting up a Christmas Tree ... it's all part of the excitement and fun of Christmas, especially for our children.

wrote:

robindchI'm asking on account of Jeremiah 10:1-5:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiah 10:1-5
Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Firstly, you should note that God was speaking to the House of Israel ... who were under Law at the time...
... Secondly, the prohibition was on learning the way of the heathen i.e. worshipping a tree as an idol.

Christians are living under God's grace and I don't worship my Christmas tree ... so its perfectly OK to have a Christmas Tree.

wrote:

robindch
Before you answer, remember - your gods' law doesn't change!

God's Law doesn't change ... but in this case I'm not breaking it ... as it doesn't apply to a Christian in the Church era, with a tree in their sitting room ... or indeed the timber from a tree in their floorboards!!!

Anyway, getting back to the topic of what atheists are doing at Christmas ... will you be dangling a Dawin Santa from your tree?

... and do you think it will become a 'must have' item for Atheists this Christmas?

Bannasidhe · 13-11-2013 11:31pm

J C wrote: »

Anyway, getting back to the topic of what atheists are doing at Christmas ... will you be dangling a Dawin Santa from your tree?

... and do you think it will become a 'must have' item for Atheists this Christmas?

Xena takes pride of place on top of my tree - why on Earth would I want to replace her with a Dawin (not sure if this is Darwin or Dawkin but it makes no difference either way)?

Sarky · 13-11-2013 11:36pm

There's J C, arguing that God's Law doesn't apply to him in this instance.

J C · 13-11-2013 11:36pm

MrPudding wrote: »

I hate to disappoint you JC, but I really don't think we can be friends. I have many friends, and they are a varied bunch, young and old, highly educated and not not highly educated, male and female, religious and non-religious. Whilst they are many and varied they all have one thing in common, I can respect them.

I can't ever respect you JC, ever. So I'm sorry, but we can't be friends.

MrP

I respect every man ... including yourself.

My hand remains outstretched to you in peace and Christian love ... even if friendship is impossible, at your insistence,

J C · 13-11-2013 11:43pm

Sarky wrote: »

There's J C, arguing that God's Law doesn't apply to him in this instance.

I don't adore my timber hall stairs and landing ... and I also don't adore my timber Christmas Tree!!!
.. so Jeremiah 10:1-5 doesn't apply to me in any instance ... and it also doesn't apply to anybody else, unless they are adoring their Christmas Tree as an idol.
... which seems unlikely, these days TBH.

J C · 13-11-2013 11:46pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Xena takes pride of place on top of my tree

Sounds a little painful for poor old Xena!!!:)

Bannasidhe wrote: »

- why on Earth would I want to replace her with a Dawin (not sure if this is Darwin or Dawkin but it makes no difference either way)?

It could be a wonderful conversation piece.

Zed Bank · 13-11-2013 11:50pm

Christmas should be made a secular holiday. All the **** I have to put up with this time of year "You hypocritical Marxist scum!'

Brian Shanahan · 13-11-2013 11:51pm

seamus wrote: »

"Happy Holidays" just sounds stupid. It's too non-descript. You could be talking about your two weeks in Mosney. If people don't like using "Christmas", then something which is suitably generic yet specific to December is the way to go, like "Festivus".

Go talk to the American christians then, they created the phrase.

J C · 13-11-2013 11:58pm

Zed Bank wrote: »

Christmas should be made a secular holiday. All the **** I have to put up with this time of year "You hypocritical Marxist scum!'

I say "Happy Christmas Zed" ... and ignore the begrudgers.
The Christmas Holiday is already a mixture of the religious and the secular ... a good model for other issues that divide us ... perhaps???

smacl · 14-11-2013 8:15am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Xena takes pride of place on top of my tree

Eric Cartman on ours with a nice orange robe for that Buddha look, my eldest having an on again, off again fling with Buddhism. Might try and get one of these cuties for this year;

Frank Lee Midere · 14-11-2013 10:22am

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Go talk to the American christians then, they created the phrase.

No they didn't. Christians prefer Christmas.

Still I see the war on Christmas is going badly, November has clearly unconditionally surrendered. Halloween is probably saving us from Christmas in October - shops have only so much space for promotions.

What's funny about some Christian responses to this "war" is we should be fasting. For advent. I think. If that has even started yet. There is a Christmas war on advent, December and November and Christmas is winning.

I mean I love Christmas but keep it to 2 weeks.

Cabaal · 14-11-2013 11:51am

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

No they didn't. Christians prefer Christmas.

Still I see the war on Christmas is going badly, November has clearly unconditionally surrendered. Halloween is probably saving us from Christmas in October - shops have only so much space for promotions.

Nah, October is under siege already with many shops stocking Christmas items from early October.

Halloween could eventually go extinct and then finally the Christians will get their way and wipe out the pagan festival of Halloween...something thats been in the works for thousands of years,. :mad:

FamousSeamus · 14-11-2013 1:54pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

No they didn't. Christians prefer Christmas.

I mean I love Christmas but keep it to 2 weeks.

I agree with this, I love Christmas (it just seems to generate a great atmosphere) but hate the fact its advertised so early!! I'm waiting for the time when I turn on the TV January 2nd and see an advert for the following Christmas....you know it'll happen!!

Delirium · 14-11-2013 3:45pm

Christmas? Is that the religious version of Hogswatch? :P

J C · 15-11-2013 12:26am

koth wrote: »

Christmas? Is that the religious version of Hogswatch? :P

No, Hogswatch is on December 32 apparently.:eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogfather

Hotblack Desiato · 15-11-2013 12:32am

Might have a go at this - if I can get the parts :rolleyes:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Flying-Spaghetti-Monster-Tree-Topper/

F9V4HGBG33OQ8TX.SQUARE2.jpg

Geomy · 15-11-2013 1:04am

Im really looking forward to this pagan festival, already watching the Holly flourish. ..

http://www.controverscial.com/Holly.htm

Hail the holly king...

J C · 15-11-2013 1:32am

Geomy wrote: »

Im really looking forward to this pagan festival, already watching the Holly flourish. ..

http://www.controverscial.com/Holly.htm

Hail the holly king...

... so it's the solstice that you're looking forward to then?

J C · 15-11-2013 1:34am

ninja900 wrote: »

Might have a go at this - if I can get the parts :rolleyes:

... I hope that you don't get the noodley appendages hopelessly tangled up!!!:)

Hotblack Desiato · 15-11-2013 2:16am

J C wrote: »

... I hope that you don't get the noodley appendages hopelessly tangled up!!!:)

It's no harm - increasingly disordered states are thermodynamically inevitable.

colossus-x · 15-11-2013 2:20am

I love St.Stephens day because my name is Stephen and it makes me feel special.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-11-2013 2:27am

If you changed your name to Thur you could feel special every week.

Yellow121 · 15-11-2013 1:20pm

I don't believe in jesus but I celebrate Christmas. It is a bit hypocritical if we're being honest.

kylith · 15-11-2013 1:45pm

Yellow121 wrote: »

I don't believe in jesus but I celebrate Christmas. It is a bit hypocritical if we're being honest.

No it isn't. There was been a mid-winter festival long before there were Christians. It's just that these days people think you're being awkward if you call it Yule because they don't think about the fact that Christianity didn't invent solstice parties.

Yellow121 · 15-11-2013 1:51pm

kylith wrote: »

No it isn't. There was been a mid-winter festival long before there were Christians. It's just that these days people think you're being awkward if you call it Yule because they don't think about the fact that Christianity didn't invent solstice parties.

When did you find out Yule existed? It's an excuse to cover the hypocrasy but who cares? It's ok to be hypocrites sometimes.

Sarky · 15-11-2013 1:56pm

It's not hypocrisy if you don't celebrate the Christian bits. There's almost no 'original' Christian part of Christmas anyway, so it's very easy to be consistent while enjoying the celebrations.

kylith · 15-11-2013 2:06pm

I can't remember exactly when I found out about Yule, it was after I learned about Christmas as I was raised in a Catholic house. I know I've always known of Yule, but it was probably when I started wondering if it was hypocritical to 'celebrate' Christmas that I learned of Yule as a pre-Christian mid-winter festival.

I don't think that it is hypocritical in anything other than using the word Christmas when we don't believe in Christ. I'd happily call it something else if I didn't know from experience that wishing people a Happy Solstice gets you called everything from a 'pretentious twat' to 'Christian hating', and that was just my family!

15-11-2013 2:20pm

Pfff, the bible says christmas trees are forbidden anyway
We're not the hypocrites

Delirium · 15-11-2013 2:30pm

Yellow121 wrote: »

I don't believe in jesus but I celebrate Christmas. It is a bit hypocritical if we're being honest.

True. most kids were raised to celebrate Santa day :P

A_Sober_Paddy · 15-11-2013 2:33pm

I'm an atheist, but yet I think there was historically a person called Jesus of nazareth(or however that's spelled)...believe they found proof he existed...

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2013 2:40pm

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

I'm an atheist, but yet I think there was historically a person called Jesus of nazareth(or however that's spelled)...believe they found proof he existed...

I believe they didn't but there are still a few recently published history journals awaiting my perusal in the downstairs loo so I may have missed this 'proof'.

A_Sober_Paddy · 15-11-2013 2:45pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I believe they didn't but there are still a few recently published history journals awaiting my perusal in the downstairs loo so I may have missed this 'proof'.

Ok I remember reading something were they were certain to have had proof he was a real person...

Yellow121 · 15-11-2013 3:06pm

We all celebrate christmas because it's what we grew up doing and it's what everyone else does. It's fun, it's hypocritical but still fun.
And I think there was a man called jesus but he didn't have the powers they wrote about. He was just a simple carpenter but did some magic tricks on the side. It got greatly exagerated.

PopePalpatine · 15-11-2013 3:15pm

Maybe Jesus's miracles were embellished accounts of his and the disciples' piss-ups? :pac:

Yellow121 · 15-11-2013 3:18pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Maybe Jesus's miracles were embellished accounts of his and the disciples' piss-ups? :pac:

When they say he was walking on water he was probably just dancing in a puddle.

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2013 3:24pm

Yellow121 wrote: »

When they say he was walking on water he was probably just dancing in a puddle.

I tried walking on water many many years ago - coincidentally it was the same night I invented many many new and interesting cocktails. I did quite well as it happens and after a good run up I got about four feet out before I sank like a stone and had to walk many many miles home in soaking wet Dr Martens. To make it worse the dunking sobered me up

.

*nostalgic sigh*

Penny Dreadful · 15-11-2013 3:28pm

Yellow121 wrote: »

We all celebrate christmas because it's what we grew up doing and it's what everyone else does. It's fun, it's hypocritical but still fun.
And I think there was a man called jesus but he didn't have the powers they wrote about. He was just a simple carpenter but did some magic tricks on the side. It got greatly exagerated.

I don't think its hypocritical to celebrate a gathering of family and friends at the darkest time of the year. It makes for fun, merriment, love and good memories. Often there is kindness shown to others in the community e.g. the inviting of people who live alone to your house to have a nice meal and some company, to give back to your community or society.
Call it Christmas (out of habit if you must) call it what you will but there is nothing hypocritical about it.

Turtwig · 15-11-2013 3:41pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Pfff, the bible says christmas trees are forbidden anyway
We're not the hypocrites

It also abhors celebrating births too, iirc.

Mr_A · 15-11-2013 3:56pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I tried walking on water many many years ago - coincidentally it was the same night I invented many many new and interesting cocktails. I did quite well as it happens and after a good run up I got about four feet out

It's the Messiah!

Lead us oh great one!

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2013 4:04pm

Mr_A wrote: »

It's the Messiah!

Lead us oh great one!

Mother says I am not the Messiah - I am a very naughty girl.

Mr_A · 15-11-2013 4:27pm

You are the Messiah! I should know, I've followed a few!

Mr_A · 15-11-2013 4:28pm

And only the true Messiah would deny it!

BTW, has anyone noticed that the Bannasidhemas ads seem to come earlier every year?

Paramite Pie · 15-11-2013 4:34pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Say Merry Xmas.

Interesting that no one has mentioned that 'Xmas' is a well established Christian term not a secular one.

The common claim by Christians that Xmas is an attempt by secularists to remove 'Christ' from Christmas is not true, as the usage of X as a symbol of Christ first appears over 1000yrs ago and was used alot on Christian Art.

The eponymous 'X' comes from the first letter of the Greek word Χριστός which is the Greek for Christ, pronounced Christos. Terms like X'tianity start appearing by 1634 by well educated people who knew their Greek well. By 1755 the modern X'mas was being used, more commonly than it is now.

So to bring this back to the original post, it really bothers me when Christians lash out at people who use the term Xmas as an attack on "their" holiday.

However, I also enjoy the irony of my fellow Atheists who insist on using Xmas as opposed to Christmas when trying to avoid religious connotations. To those guys I simply say "FAIL!!":P

Sarky · 15-11-2013 4:35pm

Yellow121 wrote: »

We all celebrate christmas because it's what we grew up doing and it's what everyone else does. It's fun, it's hypocritical but still fun.

Dude, you can let go of the hypocrisy thing. You've nothing to feel guilty about.

davidfitz22 · 15-11-2013 4:38pm

I am an atheist and Chrimbo doesn't bother me, in fact I enjoy it for what it is not for what it represents, a holiday with nice food and gifts. good tv and chocolate...roll on Christmas I say.

Turtwig · 15-11-2013 4:39pm

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Interesting that no one has mentioned that 'Xmas' is a well established Christian term not a secular one.

The common claim by Christians that Xmas is an attempt by secularists to remove 'Christ' from Christmas is not true, as the usage of X as a symbol of Christ first appears over 1000yrs ago and was used alot on Christian Art.

The eponymous 'X' comes from the first letter of the Greek word Χριστός which is the Greek for Christ, pronounced Christos. Terms like X'tianity start appearing by 1634 by well educated people who knew their Greek well. By 1755 the modern X'mas was being used, more commonly than it is now.

So to bring this back to the original post, it really bothers me when Christians lash out at people who use the term Xmas as an attack on "their" holiday.

However, I also enjoy the irony of my fellow Atheists who insist on using Xmas as opposed to Christmas when trying to avoid religious connotations. To those guys I simply say "FAIL!!":P

They're probably sick of me mentioning it every year. (Although I do it through [latex]LaTeX[/latex])
[latex]Merry\; \chi mas![/latex]

jonerkinsella · 15-11-2013 4:44pm

:mad:I celebrate the mid winter festival.. that the bloody christians stole

Pherekydes · 15-11-2013 4:47pm

Paramite Pie wrote: »

However, I also enjoy the irony of my fellow Atheists who insist on using Xmas as opposed to Christmas when trying to avoid religious connotations. To those guys I simply say "FAIL!!":P

The real fail is pronouncing it ecks-mas.

Anyways, shouldn't the thread title be changed to "Filthy Christians stealing our mid-winter festival"?

Sarky · 15-11-2013 4:49pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

The real fail is pronouncing it ecks-mas.

I like that pronunciation. Sounds sexy, hints of ninjas and explosions. But then again I view everything to do with winter festivities through the lens of Die Hard.

Filthy atheists stealing our Christmas

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