Numbers up Gerry

Happyman42 · 05-11-2013 01:09PM

HansHolzel wrote: »

Bigger news

Bigger something.

Wattle · 05-11-2013 01:10PM

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

Had there been anything new or even incriminating in this programme then RTE Radio current affairs programmes would have been all over it this morning...what have we got as a follow up...nada, not a mention of it. Marie Louise O'Donnell swimming in the noddy at the 40ft was more important it seems. The programme was a complete waste of time and taxpayers money, a rehash of old sad news that, like a lot of what happened, will never be resolved.

No doubt we will have the usual assemblage of loons and high moral grounders ringing the Liveline to be morally outraged for an hour or so.

There are still seven people missing. I'm sure the families that are still waiting were glad that the issue was being raised again. It's not over for them.

Busted Flat. · 05-11-2013 01:13PM

No

Big let down for the haters who were waiting for the Stickies in RTE to deliver the punch to knock SF back a few points, IMO RTE shot themselves in the foot. Then again what's new in Pravda.

fishy fishy · 05-11-2013 01:15PM

LOL - the shinners must be rising in the polls again ....hence the roll out of the "let's get 'em" programmes, to remind everybody about what bold boys they are.

Nah.....doesn't work - they will keep rising in the polls - after all they are up against a shower of crooks.

:D

golfball37 · 05-11-2013 01:15PM

No

Wattle wrote: »

There are still seven people missing. I'm sure the families that are still waiting were glad that the issue was being raised again.

They deserve closure, as do the 33 families of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings.

We have a hierarchy of victims here in Eire which is hard to fathom really. The families of the Dublin/Monaghan victims were strong armed by special branch & Gardaí for years for having the temerity to ask questions. Its sad that only the IRA victims get the exposure and you'd have to ask yourself why?

bumper234 · 05-11-2013 01:17PM

No

fishy fishy wrote: »

LOL - the shinners must be rising in the polls again ....hence the roll out of the "let's get 'em" programmes, to remind everybody about what bold boys they are.

Nah.....doesn't work - they will keep rising in the polls - after all they are up against a shower of crooks. :D

Because the shinners are the shining light of honesty and decency :rolleyes:

Wattle · 05-11-2013 01:17PM

No

golfball37 wrote: »

They deserve closure, as do the 33 families of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings.

We have a hierarchy of victims here in Eire which is hard to fathom really. The families of the Dublin/Monaghan victims were strong armed by special branch & Gardaí for years for having the temerity to ask questions. Its sad that only the IRA victims get the exposure and you'd have to ask yourself why?

Yes I agree there should be more done for the Dublin/Monaghan families.

Happyman42 · 05-11-2013 01:17PM

Wattle wrote: »

There are still seven people missing. I'm sure the families that are still waiting were glad that the issue was being raised again. It's not over for them.

It's not the first time the grief and suffering of families has been exploited for cheap television and other agendas. They need to be careful about that.

K-9 · 05-11-2013 01:30PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I have nothing but admiration for the likes of Brendan Hughes and Billy McKee. My question was for those who are taking them at their word that Adams was responsible and then rubbishing their word when they say she was an informer.
Im not questioning the word of Hughes or McKee, I'm questioning those who want to cherry pick their statements, who claim their word is gospel when it suits them and that they're scurrilous liars when it doesnt.

Hughes was high up so obviously would have known who ordered the murder. The IRA obviously thought she was an informer, only the people involved in the IRA at that time will know what evidence they had, we also had the ex police Ombudsmans opinion that she wasn't, and she'd have seen a hell of a lot more stuff about it than us. If people are trying to look at things objectively they just can't dismiss an opinion like that.

Was Adams in the IRA at the time? Probably. Was he head of the unit involved? Looks likely. Was Jean McConville a tout? It's in doubt considering the ex ombudsman opinion.

Warper · 05-11-2013 01:33PM

Very convenient coming from a dead man

K-9 · 05-11-2013 01:34PM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Big let down for the haters who were waiting for the Stickies in RTE to deliver the punch to knock SF back a few points, IMO RTE shot themselves in the foot. Then again what's new in Pravda.

An Phoblacht.

nacho libre · 05-11-2013 01:35PM

K-9 wrote: »

The IRA section that dealt with suspected touts was a carefully selected group, the elite of the organisation. The organisation that outed the touters aren't going to tout themselves!

what? perhaps i read your post wrong. are you saying they wouldn't reveal their own activities, or that they would never dream of being a tout.

if it's the latter, you are mistaken:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/may/12/northernireland.northernireland1

[-0-] · 05-11-2013 01:37PM

bumper234 wrote: »

Lol you are a proper stone cold hard man :rolleyes:

I'm really not. I'm just not a west brit like the majority of people on here.

K-9 · 05-11-2013 01:42PM

nacho libre wrote: »

what? perhaps i read your post wrong. are you saying they wouldn't reveal their own activities, or that they would never dream of being a tout.

if it's the latter, you are mistaken:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/may/12/northernireland.northernireland1

The programme last night said some IRA members wouldn't volunteer any information on the bodies. I don't think it is in dispute that the IRA got infiltrated by intelligence agencies and special branch, that doesn't mean that those chosen to interrogate informers weren't a secretive group. I can't see how anybody could point to an example like that and try and dismiss that.

Are you saying that example proves they weren't very secretive?

Billy86 · 05-11-2013 01:52PM

[-0-] wrote: »

I'm really not. I'm just not a west brit like the majority of people on here.

How would you define that term? What makes someone a 'West Brit' and what must one think, say or do to avoid becoming one? Basically, what is the criteria for being Irish these days?

nacho libre · 05-11-2013 01:56PM

K-9 wrote: »

The programme last night said some IRA members wouldn't volunteer any information on the bodies. I don't think it is in dispute that the IRA got infiltrated by intelligence agencies and special branch, that doesn't mean that those chosen to interrogate informers weren't a secretive group. I can't see how anybody could point to an example like that and try and dismiss that.

Are you saying that example proves they weren't very secretive?

I didn't see the programme yet. I'm not disagreeing it was a secretive group, it had to be. I thought you were suggesting, that this unit was free of touts, which i now see you were not.

Anyway, no one on either side of this conflict has the high moral ground. Only the bigoted on either side would dispute that both sides deliberately had innocent people killed. of course some here would argue the actions of the british state institutions were justified as a means to an end. that's not an opinion i can agree with.

Tramps Like Us · 05-11-2013 01:57PM

K-9 wrote: »

Excellently researched books don't count much when it comes to McGuinnes or Adam involvement in the IRA when it doesn't suit.

I've no problem counting your book as a source, but only if you are consistent and accept many a respected N.I. journalist state Adams was a IRA senior/strategist, as was McGuinness.

This is getting ridiculous. The book stating that he was jailed for being in the IRA and he later joined the INLA are statements of fact. Not speculation or conclusions. I happily accept what people say when they say that Adams was interned and that McGuinness was jailed for membership of the IRA, because these are ascertainable facts, as is Robbies membership and imprisonment.

You are being purposefully obtuse and obviously don't have the foggiest what you talking about RE McConviles kids because according to you last night Robbie didn't exist.

K-9 · 05-11-2013 02:03PM

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. The book stating that he was jailed for being in the IRA and he later joined the INLA are statements of fact. Not speculation or conclusions. I happily accept what people say when they say that Adams was interned and that McGuinness was jailed for membership of the IRA, because these are ascertainable facts, as is Robbies membership and imprisonment.

You are being purposefully obtuse and obviously don't have the foggiest what you talking about RE McConviles kids because according to you last night Robbie didn't exist.

I think you've taken me up the wrong way because I never stated he didn't exist, that would be rather silly. The programme said the children were between 6 and 16 at the time of the disappearance with one of the girls the eldest, I really don't why you are getting the idea I stated Robbie didn't exist, that's a bit odd tbh.

Busted Flat. · 05-11-2013 02:07PM

No

nacho libre wrote: »

I didn't see the programme yet. I'm not disagreeing it was a secretive group, it had to be. I thought you were suggesting, that this unit was free of touts, which i now see you were not.

Anyway, no one on either side of this conflict has the high moral ground. Only the bigoted on either side would dispute that both sides deliberately had innocent people killed. of course some here would argue the actions of the british state institutions were justified as a means to an end. that's not an opinion i can agree with.

Stakeknife was a brit agent who headed up the interrogation unit, and was supplied by his handlers, with the names of people who could be a threat to his identity, how many did he execute over the years.

awec · 05-11-2013 02:08PM

No

I have to say I don't think Adams handled some of the questions put to him in the programme well at all. He seemed uncomfortable, and more interested in patronising the interviewer with nonsense like "bear with me a moment". He seemed to want to continually shift the focus on to what he was trying to do now.

And the "real world" speech was cringe inducing - as if to suggest some of these disappearances were mere coincidence.

Crooked Jack · 05-11-2013 02:11PM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Stakeknife was a brit agent who headed up the interrogation unit, and was supplied with the names of people who could be a threat to his identity, how many did he execute over the years.

I wonder if he or his handlers know where the bodies are. Quick, somebody ring David Cameron and accuse him of knowing everyone who was ever in the various state forces and how that means he himself must know where they are.

Tramps Like Us · 05-11-2013 02:12PM

awec wrote: »

I have to say I don't think Adams handled some of the questions put to him in the programme well at all. He seemed uncomfortable, and more interested in patronising the interviewer with nonsense like "bear with me a moment". He seemed to want to continually shift the focus on to what he was trying to do now.

And the "real world" speech was cringe inducing - as if to suggest some of these disappearances were mere coincidence.

Thats what happens when an interview like that gets edited.

Savoir.Faire · 05-11-2013 02:12PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I wonder if he or his handlers know where the bodies are. Quick, somebody ring David Cameron and accuse him of knowing everyone who was ever in the various state forces and how that means he himself must know where they are.

A hysterical and nonsensical example.

bumper234 · 05-11-2013 02:13PM

No

[-0-] wrote: »

I'm really not. I'm just not a west brit like the majority of people on here.

Oh my you thought i was being serious?

You said

[-0-] wrote: »

If this happened to my mother, I would lose more sleep over her being a tout than being dragged out of the house in front of my eyes.

I didn't REALLY mean you are stone cold or tough what i inferred was that your post is full of lies. Sorry for the confusion...as you were

Tramps Like Us · 05-11-2013 02:15PM

K-9 wrote: »

I think you've taken me up the wrong way because I never stated he didn't exist, that would be rather silly. The programme said the children were between 6 and 16 at the time of the disappearance with one of the girls the eldest, I really don't why you are getting the idea I stated Robbie didn't exist, that's a bit odd tbh.

The program was wrong, and I've explained to you how.

You said he was younger than he was: Wrong.
You said that he was taken into care: Wrong.
You implied that he must have subsequently joined the IRA/INLA: Wrong.

But for some reason, you won't believe me or accept any of the citations I've given.

Billy86 · 05-11-2013 02:17PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I wonder if he or his handlers know where the bodies are. Quick, somebody ring David Cameron and accuse him of knowing everyone who was ever in the various state forces and how that means he himself must know where they are.

I never knew David Cameron was a prominent figure in 1970s/1980s Northern Ireland. Silly me thinking he would have been an upper class English teenager studying in Eton and Oxford for pretty much that entire period. The more you know and all that, I guess.

K-9 · 05-11-2013 02:17PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I wonder if he or his handlers know where the bodies are. Quick, somebody ring David Cameron and accuse him of knowing everyone who was ever in the various state forces and how that means he himself must know where they are.

I don't think anybody would suggest Gerry Adams would know everybody that was in the IRA if that's the analogy you are trying to make!

Unfortunately some of these bodies will never be found for various reasons.

Busted Flat. · 05-11-2013 02:24PM

No

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

The program was wrong, and I've explained to you how.

You said he was younger than he was: Wrong.
You said that he was taken into care: Wrong.
You implied that he must have subsequently joined the IRA/INLA: Wrong.

But for some reason, you won't believe me or accept any of the citations I've given.

One of her sons, Robbie McConville, was imprisoned in Long Kesh at the time of her death for Official IRA activities before defecting to the newly formed Irish National Liberation Army in 1974.[3]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMurder_of_Jean_McConville&ei=TvB4UuHPJYnX7AbvwYHABQ&usg=AFQjCNElnf6maGTaqvVVcisfyxw4a2Qbyg

Happyman42 · 05-11-2013 02:28PM

K-9 wrote: »

Unfortunately some of these bodies will never be found for various reasons.

If you ever drove around the Bragan area of county Monaghan at night you would realise just how difficult pinpointing a location would be,

nacho libre · 05-11-2013 02:31PM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Stakeknife was a brit agent who headed up the interrogation unit, and was supplied by his handlers, with the names of people who could be a threat to his identity, how many did he execute over the years.

It is said he maybe responsible for up to 40 murders, many of whom he knew well were not informing, but, like you say, were killed to protect his cover.
It has been hinted at in books by moloney and mc nicols that those who were pro the peace strategy of Adams, actually uncovered his identity in the late 80s, but helped conceal it to advance their strategy. it may even turn out to be that Freddie was being protected all along by someone even higher up in the oraganisation on the instructions of Gordon Kerr. nothing would really surprise me at this stage.

Numbers up Gerry

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