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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Comments

  • #1652
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Okay let's say a black couple had a baby, the baby was white, this couple lives beside you. Now just imagine there was a case in Greece where a black couple stole a baby,

    What would you do?

    The thread is littered with racist posts like this by people who dont even realise they are racists. Its almost funny.


  • #1653
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    Gyalist wrote: »
    We've already heard the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice say that race or ethnicity played no part in the way these incidents were handled and Frances Fitzgerald, as Minister for Children, has said that the Gardai and the HSE acted in good faith. Seems to me that those statements would be prejudicial to the inquiries and that it would be unwise to expect much from them.

    Do you know how I know they are lying?


    I saw their lips moving :)

    Honestly, they know what happened was a MAJOR F&*K UP and are now into damage limitation.


  • #1654
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Okay bad example, what would people do say if a traveller couple had a chimese 56654 baby and there was a case in cork of another traveller family abducting a Chinese baby ?

    What would you do then?

    Baby Jesus is still crying

    So now we are RACIALLY PROFILING on Ethnicity rather than colour?

    Please re-read my previous response.


  • #1655
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Okay bad example, what would people do say if a traveller couple had a chimese 56654 baby and there was a case in cork of another traveller family abducting a Chinese baby ?

    What would you do then?
    Aside from the fact that I would do nothing, at least having a child with blonde hair is genetically possible where the parents do not have blonde hair.

    I'm no expert on genetics, but I'm almost certain that Chinese ethnicity is not a recessive gene that Irish travellers carry.


  • #1656
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Aside from the fact that I would do nothing, at least having a child with blonde hair is genetically possible where the parents do not have blonde hair.

    I'm no expert on genetics, but I'm almost certain that Chinese ethnicity is not a recessive gene that Irish travellers carry.

    A romp with a Chinese lad is still way more likely than snatching a Chinese baby...


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  • #1657
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Okay bad example, what would people do say if a traveller couple had a chimese 56654 baby and there was a case in cork of another traveller family abducting a Chinese baby ?

    What would you do then?

    FFS

    NOTHING - I wouldn't stupidy assume all travellers are child abducters :rolleyes: because of ONE case in Cork :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1658
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,882 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Aside from the fact that I would do nothing, at least having a child with blonde hair is genetically possible where the parents do not have blonde hair.

    I'm no expert on genetics, but I'm almost certain that Chinese ethnicity is not a recessive gene that Irish travellers carry.


    Moreover......20 seconds of thinking about it would tell you......where have Roma people been based for the past 200 years?

    Central and Eastern Europe.

    What do Eastern Europeans look like? Well a fair chunk of them are blonde.

    Is it just, just, just a teenchy bit possible that the Roma kid might have a grandparent or greatgrandparent who was a blond Czech or Ukrainian?


  • #1659
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    drumswan wrote: »
    The thread is littered with racist posts like this by people who dont even realise they are racists. Its almost funny.

    Who made you the arbiter of what is and isn't racism in this country?


  • #1660
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Okay bad example, what would people do say if a traveller couple had a chimese 56654 baby and there was a case in cork of another traveller family abducting a Chinese baby ?

    What would you do then?

    What would you do if an Irish settled couple were found to have bought a Chinese Child? Send in the guards to take every child in Ireland who looks Asian away from their parents?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1661
    pookiesboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭pookiesboo


    This thread stopped going anywhere days ago


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  • #1662
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    pookiesboo wrote: »
    This thread stopped going anywhere days ago

    I kind of agree with you!
    Perhaps we should wait for the Ombudsman's report and resume hostilities then?
    I am confident Frau's Logan [or is it O'Reilly] won't suffer fools gladly.


  • #1663
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    Yeah, but what if the child wasn't theirs, or what if it was theirs and it had been born in Romania and not Ireland, and what if regulations about IDs and passports were different, and what if Roma did abduct children to claim benefits, and what if the person who reported the family wasn't racist, and what if some travellers abducted a Chinese baby in Cork for some reason? What then!!??
    What THEN!!!???

    For god's sake, won't somebody please think of the children who look different from their parents!?


  • #1664
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    Who made you the arbiter of what is and isn't racism in this country?

    The Oxford English dictionary defines racism. Tarring an entire race with the actions of one couple is the dictionary definition of racism.

    the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races


  • #1665
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    drumswan wrote: »
    The Oxford English dictionary defines racism. Tarring an entire race with the actions of one couple is the dictionary definition of racism.

    the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races

    Firstly:
    Not all travellers get involved in feuds and chase their opponents around headstones with bill hooks and hatchets during a cemetery Sunday.
    Not all Nigerians in this country are involved in mobile phone or computer scams while drawing the dole.
    Not all Roma shoplift, or pass dud cheques, or hassle you by aggressive begging.
    Problem is, that a high proportion of them, much higher than among the mainstream community, do so and hence the negative perception of them by that said community.
    Blaming the mainstream for perceptions that naturally follow their own observations while allowing the above mentioned minorities to carry on as they always have done is hardly a viable way forward?


  • #1666
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    exactly, because no one is ringing the police saying these irish people don't look like their kid. but they did it to these roma people.

    That's because everyone knows that the average spud munching bog monkey Irish man is either two drunk or thick to kidnap a child.


  • #1667
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,028 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    petrolcan wrote: »
    Sincere apologies, now corrected.

    It's grand. I think I did it myself earlier ;)


  • #1668
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    RustyNut wrote: »
    That's because everyone knows that the average spud munching bog monkey Irish man is either two drunk or thick to kidnap a child.

    So we're all about the racism thats being shown towards the Roma community etc and rightly so but its ok to day the above about all Irish people.

    The sooner the Irish people as a nation stop slagging each other off and saying that they are all (talk about sweeping statements) stupid, spud munching bog monkeys who drink too much, eat too much, are lazy, look the other way, etc etc etc the better.
    There are many many things that Ireland has to proud of. It is NOT a nation of ridicule and the sooner people take some pride in their country and stop believing in the myth that everywhere else is better than here the better. Those who find a live that suits them better else where then fair play to you and congratulations on making that good move for you and I wish you all the best. Those of you who stay here either do something to fix the things you criticise or leave, use your freedom of travel and expression to go and see exactly what life is like elsewhere.


  • #1669
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,028 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    So we're all about the racism thats being shown towards the Roma community etc and rightly so but its ok to day the above about all Irish people.

    The sooner the Irish people as a nation stop slagging each other off and saying that they are all (talk about sweeping statements) stupid, spud munching bog monkeys who drink too much, eat too much, are lazy, look the other way, etc etc etc the better.
    There are many many things that Ireland has to proud of. It is NOT a nation of ridicule and the sooner people take some pride in their country and stop believing in the myth that everywhere else is better than here the better. Those who find a live that suits them better else where then fair play to you and congratulations on making that good move for you and I wish you all the best. Those of you who stay here either do something to fix the things you criticise or leave, use your freedom of travel and expression to go and see exactly what life is like elsewhere.

    Hear Hear! I say it should be a crime, punishable by flogging to criticise anything about this country or it's people. We should include the church in that too. Great buch of lads.


  • #1670
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Big issues that I see here are :

    1) The photos in the papers show a kid that actually does look like his parents. He looks extremely like his mother in particular he just has a different skin complexion and hair colour. Just look at his face and his mom's face. They've exactly the same nose and cheekbone structure.

    People clearly obviously can't get past skin colour.

    2) A lot of Irish people don't look like their parents either. I know plenty of families where you've two parents who look 'stereotypically Irish' and have kids who look Spanish.

    Can you imagine the uproar if someone were to say storm in and take someone's kid off them because he/she happened to have the recessive genes for dark hair and skin that doesn't burn under a 40W light bulb?

    It's quite a scary precedent. I know in my own family I have relatives who are dramatically different looking to me and I know there's every chance if I have kids they may have different hair and skin tone to me. So, should I now be required to carry their birth certs and passports at all times in case I'm dragged off for questioning ??

    However well-meaning this intervention was, it sets a very worrying precedent and I think it needs very serious analysis.


  • #1671
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Big issues that I see here are :

    1) The photos in the papers show a kid that actually does look like his parents. He looks extremely like his mother in particular he just has a different skin complexion and hair colour. Just look at his face and his mom's face. They've exactly the same nose and cheekbone structure.

    People clearly obviously can't get past skin colour.

    The kid that was removed in Dublin was a girl.


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  • #1672
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Tony EH wrote: »
    The kid that was removed in Dublin was a girl.

    Yeah, but the kid in Athlone was a boy.

    Does it matter which one we're talking about here? Both stories are pretty much the same other than one was taken away for longer.

    The kid that was pictured in the papers is a boy.


  • #1673
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    This thread is about the 7 year old girl in Dublin.


  • #1674
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Tony EH wrote: »
    This thread is about the 7 year old girl in Dublin.

    and the Athlone case too

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1675
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Maybe you need to change the title then.

    "Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*"


  • #1676
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Grayson wrote: »
    Hear Hear! I say it should be a crime, punishable by flogging to criticise anything about this country or it's people. We should include the church in that too. Great buch of lads.

    I have no issue with criticisim when it is constructive. For many it is a hobby to criticise. They bitch and moan and complain and do SFA to change anything always blaming "them" for the ills of the country and waiting for others to fix it while sitting on their backsides.
    Not every Irish person is a drunken stupid lout.
    Not every member of the clergy is a paedophile.
    Not every member of the Roma or Travelling community is a societal leech that is involved in feuds, theft of goods or persons
    and so on and so forth.
    Lets for once look to the positives, acknowledge them and be grateful for them and then turn to the things that require work and improvement and work towards fixing them with actions rather than criticism and inaction.


  • #1677
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    Those of you who stay here either do something to fix the things you criticise or leave, use your freedom of travel and expression to go and see exactly what life is like elsewhere.

    Yes. How dare one criticise one's country :D


  • #1678
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    ILets for once look to the positives, acknowledge them and be grateful for them and then turn to the things that require work and improvement and work towards fixing them with actions rather than criticism and inaction.

    Excuse me, this thread doesn't have many positive angles to it.


  • #1679
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Maybe you need to change the title then.

    "Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*"

    Or, ye know... read the thread.


  • #1680
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    laughable comment
    so if it did turn out the child was kidnapped , you are suggesting they should have brought the kidnapper along , so they could interfere with the witness ??

    that is why the child was separated from the rest of the family - until it was confirmed they were the actual family.

    BASIC policing world wide

    the noise of populace drum banging on this thread is deafening


    The child was kidnapped by the Gardai.


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  • #1681
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    old hippy wrote: »
    The child was kidnapped by the Gardai.

    And you accuse the Garda of jumping to conclusions!


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