Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Tony EH wrote: »

Maybe you need to change the title then.

"Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*"

Actually this a merged thread relating to both instances of institutional racist based over-reaction by organs of this state.

old hippy

SterlingArcher wrote: »

Hippy you are the funniest of them all. down with that sort of thing. Hating "the man" and the big bad "authorities" the police are kidnappers. When truth be told you would not survive without these elements you moan about.

See here's the dirty lil secret. Old hippy.. Without "the man" or the "authorities" You would be a dead hippy...maggot food. Chewed up and spit out. Or worse A bitch to some guy who is not the most colourful crayon in the box but would grind your bones to make his bread ,should you even look at him in a manner that displeased him.

So be warm be safe, be thankful... Your opinion is only so because the man is there to allow it. See what I am saying. Peace out ;D

That sounds like a veiled threat to me. I tend to get that from extremists from time to time. Think like we do or else.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Curly Judge wrote: »

And you accuse the Garda of jumping to conclusions!

Well they are the ones who took two children, who were in no danger, from their families, and left those children traumatised.
Any why? To pander to the racist and ignorant prejudices of some of the public.

Tony EH

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Actually this a merged thread relating to both instances of institutional racist based over-reaction by organs of this state.

hahahaha....fu*kin hell...

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Tony EH wrote: »

hahahaha....fu*kin hell...

interesting that you view racism as a subject of mirth.

miss tickle

RustyNut wrote: »

That's because everyone knows that the average spud munching bog monkey Irish man is either two drunk or thick to kidnap a child.

Would this be an example of same race racism?:)

Cody Pomeray

dj jarvis wrote: »

BASIC policing world wide

Presumably you're including Turkmenistan, the Congo, Egypt, and every other legal backwater in that "worldwide" set.

It is not "basic policing", in the Western world, to remove a child from her family on foot of a facebook tip off. Don't talk crazy.

opiniated

TommyKnocker wrote: »

While I am all for protection of children I feel that the nuclear option of removing the children from their homes was taken too quickly. As the stated goal was the welfare of the two children I fail to see how removing two young children from the family home and denying them access to their parents is in their best interest. Unless there was substantial evidence to support the theory that the children were not related to either one or both of the adults they should have remained with the parents under supervision. This I feel would have been less traumatic for the children.

I agree with this.

The question is, do the Gardaí have the right to either remain in the family home while the facts are being ascertained, or to place a child in a place of safety, whilst accompanied by a parent?

I don't think they do, but I could be wrong.

old hippy

Tony EH wrote: »

hahahaha....fu*kin hell...

Out of curiosity, how would you feel if your child was taken by the authorities?

Phoebas

opiniated wrote: »

I agree with this.

The question is, do the Gardaí have the right to either remain in the family home while the facts are being ascertained, or to place a child in a place of safety, whilst accompanied by a parent?

I don't think they do, but I could be wrong.

The family cooperated fully - they could easily have done this on a voluntary basis.

old hippy

Curly Judge wrote: »

And you accuse the Garda of jumping to conclusions!

I accuse the Garda of kidnapping the child and causing untold stress to said child and family.

Tony EH

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

interesting that you view racism as a subject of mirth.

It's your ridiculous hyperbole that's mirthful. :pac:

old hippy

Tony EH wrote: »

It's your ridiculous hyperbole that's mirthful. :pac:

Tbf, Tony, throughout the thread; you've been alternating between sarcastic sneering and indignant outrage that people might have a problem with what's occured.

You do actually see and comprehend just what's occured, don't you?

Or is the case closed, in your mind?

Tony EH

I think, Old Hippy, that you need to review some of the accusations that have been thrown MY way...

The latest of which is this stupid gem...

"interesting that you view racism as a subject of mirth."

old hippy

Tony EH wrote: »

I think, Old Hippy, that you need to review some of the accusations that have been thrown MY way...

The latest of which is this stupid gem...

"interesting that you view racism as a subject of mirth."

Well, your sniggers would certainly suggest that.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel if the Gardai took your child?

Tony EH

How do you think?

But that has absolutely no bearing on this case. Undoubtedly, it was a difficult period for the family concerned. There isn't anybody on the thread that's said it was great.

However, the sheer amount of ridiculous statements regarding the actions of the Gardai in Tallaght is laughable.

Nonsensical accusations about racism and kidnapping deserve to be called out for what they are.

old hippy

Tony EH wrote: »

How do you think?

But that has absolutely no bearing on this case. Undoubtedly, it was a difficult period for the family concerned. There isn't anybody on the thread that's said it was great.

However, the sheer amount of ridiculous statements regarding the actions of the Gardai in Tallaght is laughable.

Nonsensical accusations about racism and kidnapping deserve to be called out for what they are.

The child was forceably removed from its rightful parents, causing trauma. If that's not kidnapping, I'll be damned.

I think the racism angle is pretty obvious. This would not have happened if they weren't Roma.

Oranage2

old hippy wrote: »

The child was forceably removed from its rightful parents, causing trauma. If that's not kidnapping, I'll be damned.

I think the racism angle is pretty obvious. This would not have happened if they weren't Roma.

Big statement to make, especially since all involved said it wasn't

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

Big statement to make, especially since all involved said it wasn't

Of course they would all say it.

Tony EH

old hippy wrote: »

The child was forceably removed from its rightful parents, causing trauma. If that's not kidnapping, I'll be damned.

I think the racism angle is pretty obvious. This would not have happened if they weren't Roma.

The child was placed into the care of the HSE, while the Gardai corroborated the parents story.

There was no kidnapping involved.

...and you wonder why I'm laughing?

The only "racism" involved is by the person who made the claim.

The Gardai HAVE to act on these cases. they cannot just do nothing. The enforcement of section 12 of the CCA only came into effect when the parents could produce satisfactory documents and their information didn't co-incide with that of the Coombe hospital or the registry office.

drumswan

Tony EH wrote: »

The only "racism" involved is by the person who made the claim.

They took the kids because the parents were Roma, if they were white it wouldnt have happened. Nobody in this state goes around taking non-white kids from white parents on a whim. Its cut and dried racism really.

Cody Pomeray

FutureGuy wrote: »

I swear, to this day, I'm haunted by something that happened on a bus while in Krakow about 3 years ago.

A dark-coloured gyspy couple had the most beautiful girl with them. She was about 6, fair-skinned, blue eyed and blonde hair and it was clear her hair had been dyed many times but now had the colour out - her hair was like straw.

We were outside of the city and 3G was ropey at best, and I couldn't get information for the local police.

I'm 100% convinced the child was abducted. In retrospect, we could have asked someone on the bus or perhaps the conductor but who was I to ring the police just because I thought a child might be abducted - for all I knew, there was a legit reason for her to be with them.

Looking at the last two cases in Dublin and Greece, it hits home that I should have done something more about it.

"Der is also little girl on de bus in krakow and she is blond and blue eyes. Her name is. . . and the address is . . . I am from . . . myself and its a big problem there missing kids. The Romas robbing them to get child benefit in Europe."

Tony EH wrote: »

The Gardai HAVE to act on these cases. they cannot just do nothing.

Where are you getting that from?

The Gardaí don't have to act where they believe there is nothing to ground an allegation at all. It's actually really out of character for the Irish Gardaí to have acted in this way.

There are plenty of white Irish parents who most certainly don't deserve children and whose children should[/i' be forcibly removed from their families and yet this family had their children removed for no reason? Of course that's not right and it is not fair.

Tony EH

drumswan wrote: »

They took the kids because the parents were Roma, if they were white it wouldnt have happened. Nobody in this state goes around taking non-white kids from white parents on a whim. Its cut and dried racism really.

Unless you have the details of every single case where section 12 has been used (there's been 100's this year alone, IIRC), you aren't in any position to state such nonsense.

Tony EH

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The Gardaí don't have to act where they believe there is nothing to ground an allegation at all. It's actually really out of character for the Irish Gardaí to have acted in this way.

In cases of child welfare, they are under incredible pressure to act.

Our country has a pretty bad reputation where the abuse of children and the subsequent lack of action is concerned.

tayto lover

old hippy wrote: »

Excuse me, this thread doesn't have many positive angles to it.

Maybe it suits some people who have agendas to cry and moan and even the score.
This thread is too serious for agendas.
We should be trying to find out if there were wrongs committed and if so fix them.
Many of us who were never in a similar situation on either side of the argument are interested but there are people trying to hijack the thread for ulterior motives.

tayto lover

Tony EH wrote: »

The child was placed into the care of the HSE, while the Gardai corroborated the parents story.

There was no kidnapping involved.

...and you wonder why I'm laughing?

The only "racism" involved is by the person who made the claim.

The Gardai HAVE to act on these cases. they cannot just do nothing. The enforcement of section 12 of the CCA only came into effect when the parents could produce satisfactory documents and their information didn't co-incide with that of the Coombe hospital or the registry office.

We really don't know the motives of the person who reported the matter as yet.

Tony EH

Well, that's very true.

Cody Pomeray

Tony EH wrote: »

In cases of child welfare, they are under incredible pressure to act.

"incredible" pressure to act?

"incredible" pressure to act where a child is sitting at home watching her tv programmes, and some semi-illiterate posts an allegation on Facebook?

The risk to the child had to be (i) immediate and (ii) serious for the Gardai to have acted the way they did. Whether there is "incredible" pressure to respond to ludicrous facebook allegations matters not one iota.

drumswan

Tony EH wrote: »

Unless you have the details of every single case where section 12 has been used (there's been 100's this year alone, IIRC), you aren't in any position to state such nonsense.

So you are suggesting that there have been cases of non-white kids being removed from white Irish parents under suspicion of abduction this year then are you?