Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

Nodin

Gatling wrote: »

Just to throw something out there

The Gardai have apparently taken 400-700 kids from homes since 2011 according to various news reports,
And yet boardies get upset over 2 ,

And how many of them took two hours to assess?

Tony EH

Nodin wrote: »

It takes court cases and some serious time to take kids into care normally. You think two hours is enough?

The Gardai have to make the decison whether to hand the kids over to the HSE in less time than the courts have to decide cases though.

I certainly don't think the Gardai acted as well as they could have. I think they over-erred on the side of caution and they could have been more thorough with their checking.

However, some people are acting like they just rock'n'rolled up to the house, bust down the door and took the kid.

end of the road

Tony EH wrote: »

The reporter informed that Gardai.

Do you think the Gardai should have just ignored it?

if they found out that the original tip off to the reporter was from facebook then yes they should, guardai should ignore anything from the hope ur ok hun types

Cody Pomeray

Gatling wrote: »

Just to throw something out there

The Gardai have apparently taken 400-700 kids from homes since 2011 according to various news reports,
And yet boardies get upset over 2 ,

No.

I don't see anybody disputing the existence of the Child Care Act.

The fact that Gardaí can, and do, remove children who they reasonably believe to be in "immediate" and "serious" danger is fine.

The Oireachtas occasioanlly pass laws arranging for for the curtailment of liberty, such as in Mental Heath Act, 2001, the Immigration Act, or here in the  Child  Care Act, snd that's fine because the actions of the Guards are always strictly limited.

It is not okay to remove a child, sitting down watching tv from the family,and say there is a serious and immediate risk to her welfare when there appear to be no grounds. Not even the facebook post, bound up as it was in prejudice, made that allegation.

Tony EH wrote: »

their information didn't check out with the Coombe

The only information I have seen says that the Coombe could not initially confirm, but confirmed the details next day.

Tony EH

drumswan wrote: »

You are getting angry at being repeatedly made to look silly now, maybe you should take an internet break.

It ain't me who's looking silly lad.

Your constant nonsense is a waste of good internet bandwidth. You're offering nothing non sequiturs and bollocks talk.

Nodin

Tony EH wrote: »

The Gardai have to make the decison whether to hand the kids over to the HSE in less time than the courts have to decide cases though.
.............

There were no grounds to take the child from the parents though.

Tony EH

Gatling wrote: »

Just to throw something out there

The Gardai have apparently taken 400-700 kids from homes since 2011 according to various news reports,
And yet boardies get upset over 2 ,

There have been over 700 cases where section 12 has been used in teh years 2010 to 2012.

There has been over 500 cases this year.

Nodin

Tony EH wrote: »

There have been over 700 cases where section 12 has been used in teh years 2010 to 2012.

There has been over 500 cases this year.

....and can you name others where a two hour assessment led to it being enforced?

end of the road

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The following appeared on some tv3 journo's facebook page

"There is also little girl living in Roma house in Tallaght and she is blond and blue eyes. Her name is. . . and the address is . . . I am from . . . myself and its a big problem there missing kids. The Romas robbing them to get child benefit in Europe."

oh dear, surely that little runt spouting the following should have set off an alarm? "The Romas robbing them to get child benefit in Europe" a hope ur ok type posting something with no evidence to back it up, just posting stuff with the rest of the hope ur ok types latching on to it and believing it

Tony EH

Nodin wrote: »

....and can you name others where a two hour assessment led to it being enforced?

How would I know.

tayto lover

Nodin wrote: »

And how many of them took two hours to assess?

I am aware of a case in Dundalk about 10 years ago where a man left his child asleep in a car on a very sunny day and went into the bookies. A shop worker saw the child who was very hot and rang the garda. They came and broke the car door window and removed the child and handed her over to the HSE while they looked for the car owner. He was located after 1 hour. He forgot he had the child in the car and was watching racing. He got the child back but his biggest fear was that his wife would find out. There was never a case about it publically but i'm sure the social workers paid visits to that home afterwards.
So apparently they can take a child in immediately without a court order.
If i was that garda that man would have got a lot more than he did.
The girl who reported the matter was my daughter's friend and she was very upset by the incident.

tayto lover

end of the road wrote: »

if they found out that the original tip off to the reporter was from facebook then yes they should, guardai should ignore anything from the hope ur ok hun types

If only 1 report in a thousand results in saving a child then its worth it regardless of who it comes from. They cannot judge peoples intentions on a phone or a computer.

drumswan

Tony EH wrote: »

How would I know.

You dont know much, do you?

end of the road

tayto lover wrote: »

If only 1 report in a thousand results in saving a child then its worth it regardless of who it comes from. They cannot judge peoples intentions on a phone or a computer.

if its via facebook then its an invalid tip off and the guardai can ignore it, such a report via facebook is never worth it, if your genuine you will pick up the phone know the number to call and you will call it, sure that can be abused to but that is the recognised way to get in touch with our boys

Tony EH

drumswan wrote: »

You dont know much, do you?

You expect me to know the timeline of cases where section 12 of the CCA was used?

dj jarvis

mango salsa wrote: »

Your opinion was irrelevant to the discussion

yea , says you , oh well that means i really must stop so ...........:rolleyes:

i forgot about the "he who shouts enough crap loudest must be right " formula to AH love ins

almost every commentator i have heard in radio and tv talking about this have said under the circumstances the garda were correct and had the best intrest of the child at heart.

yet a small band of nobody's on AH with a hard on about this feel they are correct , without knowing one shred of evidence !!!

YOU GO GUYS !!! :rolleyes:

dj jarvis

pookiesboo wrote: »

This thread stopped going anywhere days ago

so true , but its healthy to poke the natives with a stick - keeps them from wandering outside and shouting at traffic

dj jarvis

Nodin wrote: »

....and can you name others where a two hour assessment led to it being enforced?

can you ? or are we STILL assuming you know the facts of the case , yet none of the full facts are in the public domain ?

you have no idea what went on in these 2 cases , or any other case for that matter

idle speculation - and you still question me for not having the full facts ??

laughable

wait the ten days , and ill gladly debate with you , till then yours and others contribution is just a witch hunt - right time of year for it i suppose

tayto lover

end of the road wrote: »

if its via facebook then its an invalid tip off and the guardai can ignore it, such a report via facebook is never worth it, if your genuine you will pick up the phone know the number to call and you will call it, sure that can be abused to but that is the recognised way to get in touch with our boys

Someone stated that the report was made by a journalist after he received it from the neighbour of the Roma family. If they didn't respond to his call he would probably have slated them in his paper.

I am not too interested in the reporting matter anyway but i am very interested in how the garda responded and what happened to eventually lead them to remove the child. From listening to the experts on the radio it seems (so far) that they acted within the law but I would hope that in future another method could be used to reduce trauma and suffering to everyone involved.

I have a daughter who recently separated and who is going through a bad time with her ex. I would like to think that he couldn't put her or the young kids through a similar ordeal. Nice to know all your rights.

Nodin

tayto lover wrote: »

I am aware of a case in Dundalk about 10 years ago where a man left his child asleep in a car on a very sunny day and went into the bookies. A shop worker saw the child who was very hot and rang the garda. ..............

'danger to the child'......not present in this case.

Tony EH

There is perhaps a flight risk though and I've heard that reason used by the HSE in another case that I personally know of, the details of which I am not going into here.

tayto lover

Nodin wrote: »

'danger to the child'......not present in this case.

But we don't know that yet. That's a hindsight assumption. The details have not been established as to what conversation/investigation took place or what was going through the authorities heads.
What would have happened had the Coome Hospital been able to establish that the child was born there? Why did the woman not give her married name or have it on the birth cert? Why did she not tell the garda that she used her maiden name while in the Coome? Nothing seemed to have worked in the conversation/investigation to help the child.
One thing I have learned is that you need to have birth certs, passports or identity papers in order.

Nodin

tayto lover wrote: »

But we don't know that yet. That's a hindsight assumption. ...........

So there was a danger and they took the child away, but the danger went off on holidays for the bank holiday weekend so they gave the child back.....

tayto lover wrote: »

What would have happened had the Coome Hospital been able to establish that the child was born there? Why did the woman not give her married name or have it on the birth cert?...........

Jesus knows.

Fear and panic? And it wouldn't be on the birth cert if she wasn't married at the time.

dj jarvis

[QUOTE=Nodin;87189804]So there was a danger and they took the child away, but the danger went off on holidays for the bank holiday weekend so they gave the child back.....



Jesus knows.

Fear and panic? And it wouldn't be on the birth cert if she wasn't married at the time.[/QUOTE]

no Nodin - you see the cops went away , investigated , found no case to answer , and returned the child, as ANY police force would do.
but you KNOW this. what you clearly dont know is what ACTUALLY happened

TommyKnocker

Tony EH wrote: »

There is perhaps a flight risk though and I've heard that reason used by the HSE in another case that I personally know of, the details of which I am not going into here.

The flight risk could have beem mitigated by asking the parents to submit the families passports and leaving a squad car outside the house or a family liason officer inside with the family.

tayto lover

Nodin wrote: »

So there was a danger and they took the child away, but the danger went off on holidays for the bank holiday weekend so they gave the child back.....

Again we don't know the details so I won't judge until I do.

Jesus knows.

Fear and panic? And it wouldn't be on the birth cert if she wasn't married at the time.

You could be right and it would explain why the Coome couldn't find the record. Although for the husband and wife to forget at the same time is odd.
Might also have been a language barrier and maybe an interpreter should have been used. Again we don't know.

Grayson

Gatling wrote: »

Just to throw something out there

The Gardai have apparently taken 400-700 kids from homes since 2011 according to various news reports,
And yet boardies get upset over 2 ,

How many were taken because they had the wrong hair colour?

How many were taken because the people "caring" for them weren't able to or were abuseive?

tayto lover

Grayson wrote: »

How many were taken because they had the wrong hair colour?

How many were taken because the people "caring" for them weren't able to or were abuseive?

How do you know that this child was taken because she had the wrong hair colour please? Interested as I haven't read that.

kerry4sam

Our Minister for Justice has been abused high up and low down online, but one thing I will say about the man is that he has brought faith back to me about An Garda Síochána is this article here.

I await the outcome of this investigation.

Gatling

Grayson wrote: »

How many were taken because they had the wrong hair colour?

How many were taken because the people "caring" for them weren't able to or were abuseive?

Let's open a thread and get all upset about it and make wild guess's and assumptions and out of the air faux fact's ,

We might find out eventually