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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Comments

  • #1562
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    exactly, because no one is ringing the police saying these irish people don't look like their kid. but they did it to these roma people.

    at the heart of this is bigotry. lets just cut to the chase here. their heaps of people who don't look like their kids. but only the roma family gets a knock on the door.

    that could be very well true , but what has that got to do with the cops doing their job ?


  • #1563
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Gatling wrote: »
    Take into account the on going Greek case ,now take an average Jo who notices a child that may have looked totally out of place ,who then decides it'd better to be safe than sorry and contacts the gardai ,

    Does that make them a concerned person or a racist

    1+1 doesn't make 5

    Ireland is not Greece why does something happening over there have to do with a family here just because there Roma ?

    Average jo’s should educate themselves and not racially profile and have kneejerk reactions after watching the news

    May have looked out of place? with his loving family ? who have lived in the neighbourhood for how many years ?


  • #1564
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Because some people seem to think dark skinned people cannot have a child that has blond hair and blue eyes


    FFS...ignorance or naivety, maybe, but racist is going too far IMO.

    I have to say when I saw the pic of the toddler with his parents in the Times today I understood how such a concern would be raised especially in light of the situation in Greece...I think psychologists refer to it as the availability heuristic?

    In the best interests of the child, it was checked out and thankfully no wrong doing has been proven. I'd always prefer to err on the side of caution when a child's safety is concerned.

    Having said that, it must have been quite a scary experience for the families concerned.


  • #1565
    Sala
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Sala


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    that could be very well true , but what has that got to do with the cops doing their job ?

    They weren't doing their job if they acted beyond the scope of the 1991 Act.


  • #1566
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    MonsterCookie wrote: »
    FFS...ignorance or naivety, maybe, but racist is going too far IMO.

    I have to say when I saw the pic of the toddler with his parents in the Times today I understood how such a concern would be raised especially in light of the situation in Greece...I think psychologists refer to it as the availability heuristic?

    In the best interests of the child, it was checked out and thankfully no wrong doing has been proven. I'd always prefer to err on the side of caution when a child's safety is concerned.

    Having said that, it must have been quite a scary experience for the families concerned.

    So were allowed to routinely traumatise children now for their own good ? you know just to be sure


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  • #1567
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    Sala wrote: »
    They weren't doing their job if they acted beyond the scope of the 1991 Act.

    says who ?
    you dont know that they did


  • #1568
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Ireland is not Greece why does something happening over there have to do with a family here just because there Roma ?

    Average jo’s should educate themselves and not racially profile and have kneejerk reactions after watching the news

    May have looked out of place? with his loving family ? who have lived in the neighbourhood for how many years ?

    And how many times have children looked happy walking down streets holding hands with an adult only for the child to be found raped and murdered and then read how people comment on ohh I knew there was something not right about that man ,I knew he was weird and so on and so on
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #1569
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So were allowed to routinely traumatise children now for their own good ? you know just to be sure

    listen to the pod cast of the pat kenny show from this morning , he has the head of Bernardos , the head of the immigrant council and the minister for justice , all saying it is better to be wrong a hundred times than let one slip ,
    the way it was handled might have been unfortunate , but the best interests of the child were at the heart of it,

    and its been said that ireland is not greece , and the greek case should have no impact , thats rubbish , child smuggling rings are international , and this COULD have been part of one , you dont know until you check , and they done that


  • #1570
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,883 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    MonsterCookie wrote: »
    FFS...ignorance or naivety, maybe, but racist is going too far IMO.

    I have to say when I saw the pic of the toddler with his parents in the Times today I understood how such a concern would be raised especially in light of the situation in Greece...I think psychologists refer to it as the availability heuristic?

    In the best interests of the child, it was checked out and thankfully no wrong doing has been proven. I'd always prefer to err on the side of caution when a child's safety is concerned.

    Having said that, it must have been quite a scary experience for the families concerned.

    ......in Greece the family openly said it wasn't their child. not the case here.

    no wrong doing has been proven on the part of the family. on the part of the state is another matter.


  • #1571
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Gatling wrote: »
    And how many times have children looked happy walking down streets holding hands with an adult only for the child to be found raped and murdered and then read how people comment on ohh I knew there was something not right about that man ,I knew he was weird and so on and so on

    This sounds like a quote from the daily mail...

    So what do you propose all children should be put into care as parents/anyone could harm them.

    i have said this before


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  • #1572
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    ......in Greece the family openly said it wasn't their child. not the case here.

    no wrong doing has been proven on the part of the family. on the part of the state is another matter.

    the family here could have been spoofing , people do that you know.


  • #1573
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    listen to the pod cast of the pat kenny show from this morning , he has the head of Bernardos , the head of the immigrant council and the minister for justice , all saying it is better to be wrong a hundred times than let one slip ,
    the way it was handled might have been unfortunate , but the best interests of the child were at the heart of it,

    and its been said that ireland is not greece , and the greek case should have no impact , thats rubbish , child smuggling rings are international , and this COULD have been part of one , you dont know until you check , and they done that


    No one gives a crap that they checked, its how they went about it.


  • #1574
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Gatling wrote: »
    Take into account the on going Greek case ,now take an average Jo who notices a child that may have looked totally out of place ,who then decides it'd better to be safe than sorry and contacts the gardai ,

    Does that make them a concerned person or a racist

    1+1 doesn't make 5

    Oh ffs - the Greek case doesn't make a pattern

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1575
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So were allowed to routinely traumatise children now for their own good ? you know just to be sure

    Your words, not mine. A little dramatic too...

    Yes, I'm sure it was traumatic for the family, but I believe the authorities were acting in the best interests of the children.

    Rather than focus on the negatives...it has certainly helped raise awareness of the issues. I for one did not realise a Roma family could have children with blond hair and blue eyes...does that make me a racist?


  • #1576
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Nodin wrote: »
    No one gives a crap that they checked, its how they went about it.

    Exactly - they could have thoroughly investigated without removing the child.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1577
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    MonsterCookie wrote: »
    Your words, not mine. A little dramatic too...

    Ayes, I'm sure it was traumatic for the family, but I believe the authorities were acting in the best interests of the children.

    Rather than focus on the negatives...it has certainly helped raise awareness of the issues. I for one did not realise a Roma family could have children with blond hard and blue eyes...does that make me a racist?

    Did the girl taken not eat for 3 days i think that says she was traumatised. And did the mother of the boy say the child would not sleep when he got home (not 100% on that one)


  • #1578
    Sala
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Sala


    Sala wrote: »
    They weren't doing their job if they acted beyond the scope of the 1991 Act.

    I was responding to the poster who said the fact Roma families got a knock on the door had nothing to do with them doing their job; we don't know yet if they were doing their job properly. I'm not saying they weren't, they may well have acted within their powers, but if they went above and beyond the scope of their powers under the act they were not doing their job, and I don't believe we have enough information to say whether they acted in a legal manner


  • #1579
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    Nodin wrote: »
    No one gives a crap that they checked, its how they went about it.

    the inquiry will say how they went about it , not you and you assumptions , or mine.

    and most people will give a crap that they checked , thats the point


  • #1580
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Exactly - they could have thoroughly investigated without removing the child.

    how do you know this ?
    do you have an inside line you are keeping quite , or are you guessing ?


  • #1581
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    the inquiry will say how they went about it , not you and you assumptions , or mine.

    and most people will give a crap that they checked , thats the point


    I don't have to make assumptions. We know they took the kid off them.


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  • #1582
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Did the girl taken not eat for 3 days i think that says she was traumatised. And did the mother of the boy say the child would not sleep when he got home (not 100% on that one)

    They parents of the girl said 24 gardai pounced on the house ,
    Now 4 gardai and 1 social worker were in the house ,

    I'm sure the stories will get worse
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #1583
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Did the girl taken not eat for 3 days i think that says she was traumatised. And did the mother of the boy say the child would not sleep when he got home (not 100% on that one)

    Yes, but saying that this is being done routinely and calling it racism is a bit dramatic IMO.

    Hopefully the families can get back to normality ASAP.


  • #1584
    Sala
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Sala


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    how do you know this ?
    do you have an inside line you are keeping quite , or are you guessing ?

    Most of this thread is based on assumptions, but I would agree they could have investigated without taking the child away and monitoring the house /family. Again an assumption, but if there were genuine concerns about they safety and welfare of the children, they would not have returned them regardless of the DNA evidence?


  • #1585
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    Sala wrote: »
    Most of this thread is based on assumptions, but I would agree they could have investigated without taking the child away and monitoring the house /family. Again an assumption, but if there were genuine concerns about they safety and welfare of the children, they would not have returned them regardless of the DNA evidence?

    Interesting...genuine question then. To the posters on this thread that believe the Gardai were racist...had they simply monitored the family, followed them everywhere they went, camped outside their home etc etc, would this not also have been racism?


  • #1586
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    Sala wrote: »
    Most of this thread is based on assumptions, but I would agree they could have investigated without taking the child away and monitoring the house /family. Again an assumption, Ubut if there were genuine concerns about they safety and welfare of the children, they would not have returned them regardless of the DNA evidence?[/QOTE]

    but if they found out for sure before the results came in , why would they not ?

    your giving out they took them , and now that they give them back you give out ??


  • #1587
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    Nodin wrote: »
    I don't have to make assumptions. We know they took the kid off them.

    "No one gives a crap that they checked, its how they went about it".

    thats an assumption

    Hindsight is the foresight of a gob****e


  • #1588
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    MonsterCookie wrote: »
    Interesting...genuine question then. To the posters on this thread that believe the Gardai were racist...had they simply monitored the family, followed them everywhere they went, camped outside their home etc etc, would this not also have been racism?

    Its both the gardai and the concerned neighbor are racist according to a lot of posters on here
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #1589
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    "No one gives a crap that they checked, its how they went about it".

    thats an assumption

    Hindsight is the foresight of a gob****e

    Wtf are you on about?

    They took the kid. That's what people are objecting to. We've an thread full of posts on those lines.


  • #1590
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    MonsterCookie wrote: »
    Interesting...genuine question then. To the posters on this thread that believe the Gardai were racist...had they simply monitored the family, followed them everywhere they went, camped outside their home etc etc, would this not also have been racism?

    It would still be racial profiling. But much milder than grabbing the child/children. This was extreme.


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  • #1591
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    Gatling wrote: »
    Its both the gardai and the concerned neighbor are racist according to a lot of posters on here

    Agreed, and that's what I find a little bizarre. It seems that even to raise the concern, to check it out, to do all the tests to be sure etc...this in of itself is being called out as racist?


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