Help needed!!!

Scortho · 16-10-2013 4:32pm

Landlord could potentially risk a lot of scrutiny if he pursues...Hed have to register with prtb plus risk being fined etc.

Not only that, if he isnt registered theres an increased chance of him not being tax compliant so he could end up being hounded by revenue.

If it was me, id be letting him get all of his books in order and taking me to the PRTB.
Buys me time and if they do side with him, means im not going to be paying much more.

Ray Palmer · 16-10-2013 4:53pm

Scortho wrote: »

Landlord could potentially risk a lot of scrutiny if he pursues...Hed have to register with prtb plus risk being fined etc.

Not only that, if he isnt registered theres an increased chance of him not being tax compliant so he could end up being hounded by revenue.

If it was me, id be letting him get all of his books in order and taking me to the PRTB.
Buys me time and if they do side with him, means im not going to be paying much more.

Firstly you aren't really right on any point on this. PRTB fines rarely happen. He could be PRTB registered but not showing on the website.

PRTB registration has absolutely no connection to tax. People do pay tax and aren't registered with PRTB. Even if he isn't that doesn't mean revenue come after him due to PRTB dispute.

Lovely gesture. Somebody fails to pay their rent and you suggest anyway to avoid paying it as long as possible.

OP come to an agreement on a payment plan you owe the money and you will not get away with it.

jlm29 · 16-10-2013 5:13pm

This thread is gas. "I didn't bother paying 7k in rent. Is that grand?". "No, op, it isn't grand, it's illegal, and you owe 7k". "Oh, well I won't bother anyhow, tough s**t landlord"".
Op, what did you expect from this thread?
Seems like your best option at this point would be to come up with some kind of payment plan with the landlord, and clear your debt. I have a sneaking suspicion though, that that's not how you roll.

maguic24 · 16-10-2013 5:37pm

info13 wrote: »

he showed us bank details and the dates of payments missing not sure what to do for sure cant afford to pay him back

Can you not arrange with him to pay a bit on top of the rent you are now paying and over time pay it back? Honestly, €7000 in payments...that's a lot of missed payments....did he show you the bank statements to prove this?

If he is owed the 7000 you will have to pay him back. If you're looking for a way out of it, it's not happening. How would you feel if someone owed you €7000? In my opinion, the best thing to do is have a chat with the landlord and come to some sort of an agreement to pay it back gradually.

Tokyo · 16-10-2013 5:57pm

"Hi All,

I have been renting out a house for the past 4 years to a bunch of fellas who I left to their own devices and didn't give any hassle to in the four years they were living there. Now fair enough I had my eye off the ball for a while, but just went through the bank statements today and they're over €7000 in arrears!!! I mentioned it today and I have a feeling that one of the lads might do a runner. What should I do???"

Put like that, it kind of says it all really. You're lucky the man hasn't gone straight to the police already - I bloody well would have. I think he's doing you a great favour by giving you the opportunity to explain yourself and pay off the debt, and I think you'd be wise to take him up on it...

As for how to pay him... where did the €7000 you should have spent on rent money go instead???

Scortho · 16-10-2013 6:06pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Firstly you aren't really right on any point on this. PRTB fines rarely happen. He could be PRTB registered but not showing on the website.

PRTB registration has absolutely no connection to tax. People do pay tax and aren't registered with PRTB. Even if he isn't that doesn't mean revenue come after him due to PRTB dispute.

Lovely gesture. Somebody fails to pay their rent and you suggest anyway to avoid paying it as long as possible.

OP come to an agreement on a payment plan you owe the money and you will not get away with it.

Surely if you're not registered with the prtb, that means fines.
Feck all good to compliant LLs if non registered aren't.

Neither did I say he wasn't paying tax.
However both of us know that those who aren't registered have a higher chance of not being tax compliant.

wirelessdude01 · 16-10-2013 7:15pm

info13 wrote: »

Well is his problem pretty much too

Why did you come on here when you have such a bad attitude towards the replies that you are getting? Is it because no one else has told you to do a runner?

PennyWise11 · 16-10-2013 11:14pm

info13 wrote: »

Hi All,

I have been renting a house for the past 4years my landlord arrives today and says his calculations over time that we are missing about 7,000euro in payments over the years he is now looking for the money back all of it.

He is not registered with the PRTB and also we have no lease for the past 3years out of the 4 as he never bothered to renew it...

Can he really chase us for this money after all this time especially springing it on us like that where we have missed payments over time should he not have notified us of it a long time before??

advice is needed asap.....

thanks

If your landlord is not registered with the PRTB he probably owes more than you do because he has not been taxed on his income for rent....he will hardly blow the whistle on himself!!!!!

Just a thought

Okay okay...not what I should be saying in this context...BUT....have had experience of guys who own multiple properties that are not registered, who swan around laying down the law for tenants.
I know this is an exceptional case in that the amount of debt ( if it's accurate) is way off the richter scale.....

But, I can't help wondering if a Landlord is genuine, upfront, paying taxes like the rest of us eejits etc......why on earth would he wait till he's owed €7000....

SOMETHING not quite right here

jlm29 · 17-10-2013 8:19am

PennyWise11 wrote: »

If your landlord is not registered with the PRTB he probably owes more than you do because he has not been taxed on his income for rent....he will hardly blow the whistle on himself!!!!!

Just a thought

Okay okay...not what I should be saying in this context...BUT....have had experience of guys who own multiple properties that are not registered, who swan around laying down the law for tenants.
I know this is an exceptional case in that the amount of debt ( if it's accurate) is way off the richter scale.....

But, I can't help wondering if a Landlord is genuine, upfront, paying taxes like the rest of us eejits etc......why on earth would he wait till he's owed €7000....

SOMETHING not quite right here

Ptrb and revenue are separate bodies. Being unregistered doesn't mean he isn't tax compliant. You're making an awful lot of assumptions there.

No Pants · 17-10-2013 8:27am

PennyWise11 wrote: »

But, I can't help wondering if a Landlord is genuine, upfront, paying taxes like the rest of us eejits etc......why on earth would he wait till he's owed €7000....

SOMETHING not quite right here

You're right, something isn't quite right here, but we don't have the details. What we do have to work with is what the OP has already said; that he owes €7k and doesn't want to pay it.

Regardless of the landlord situation, if the OP owes €7, he needs to pay it. The landlord's tax matters, if not above board, will catch up with him eventually.

Frank Black · 17-10-2013 8:40am

No Pants wrote: »

.

Regardless of the landlord situation, if the OP owes €7, he needs to pay it. The landlord's tax matters, if not above board, will catch up with him eventually.

The LL tax matters have a direct bearing on whether the LL will decide to pursue the owed rent off the OP - so it's completely relevant.

From the OP's description of the situation, there is a distinct possibility that this guy is both non-registered and non-tax-compliant.

I don't have much sympathy for a LL who lets this level of debt build up and if I was the OP I'd brazen it out and see what happens.

The thread is obviously full of a lot of LL's giving out LL-centric 'advice'.

djimi · 17-10-2013 9:28am

Frank Black wrote: »

The thread is obviously full of a lot of LL's giving out LL-centric 'advice'.

So because someone has the common decency to suggest that the OP should pay the money that they owe, they automatically must be a landlord giving landlord-centric advice? I am a tenant, and I would be utterly ashamed and embarrassed if I missed one rent payment, let alone enough to build up €7k worth of arrears.

Whether you have sympathy for the landlord or not, and whether or not you believe that the landlord is tax complient really doesnt change anything for the OP. The bottom line is that the OP owes the arrears, and must pay them; what the landlord does with that money is their own business and a seperate issue.

Frank Black · 17-10-2013 9:37am

djimi wrote: »

I would be utterly ashamed and embarrassed if I missed one rent payment, let alone enough to build up €7k worth of arrears.

I'd be utterly ashamed embarrassed if I was renting out a place and didn't realise that I was owed €7K in rent over a 4 year period.

djimi wrote: »

Whether you have sympathy for the landlord or not, and whether or not you believe that the landlord is tax complient really doesnt change anything for the OP.

Yes it does,
If he's not tax compliant, he's swindled the exchequer and the rest of us tax-payers out of money.
Furthermore, he's unlikely to pursue the OP for owed rent if as a consequence of this, he will end up bringing the matter to revenue's attention.

Tokyo · 17-10-2013 9:38am

djimi said it before I could, but yes, now we're promoting the idea that "if you can get away with it, go for it" on the forums??

There's nothing in the original post to suggest that the landlord is non registered and non compliant, but even if he is, that's not the issue at hand here. However, plenty has been said to suggested that the OP has not paid his rent for quite a long time and now plans to do a runner, which IS the issue here. One does not simply "accidentally" forget to pay €7,000 in rent and bills over the course of a few years - that the OP has effectively said is:

"I've defrauded someone of €7,000 and now I've been caught? What should I do??"

followed by a couple of "well tough **** to the landlord" when people have suggested that he might want to pay it back asap.

Telling the OP to man up and pay up before it goes further is not "LL-centric 'advice'" - it's very basic "how not to be a complete and utter ****wit advice", and quite honestly is advice that should never need to be given here, because no-one in their right mind would do what the OP did, and then expect a pat on the back and advice on how to get away with it afterwards... And I don't have to be a landlord, swanning around from property to property, to know that much.

Frank Black · 17-10-2013 9:41am

mike_ie wrote: »

There's nothing in the original post to suggest that the landlord is non registered and non compliant,

Really?

info13 wrote: »

He is not registered with the PRTB and also we have no lease for the past 3years out of the 4 as he never bothered to renew it...

Ray Palmer · 17-10-2013 9:51am

Frank Black wrote: »

Yes it does,
If he's not tax compliant, he's swindled the exchequer and the rest of us tax-payers out of money.
Furthermore, he's unlikely to pursue the OP for owed rent if as a consequence of this, he will end up bringing the matter to revenue's attention.

I wonder how you would feel if you heard a story of a LL reporting a tenant for lying to social welfare about not working, living with partner etc...

Tax compliance of a LL has no baring on what is owed and to try and use it as a method to swindle a LL out of rent due is low. How do you feel about people reporting people in general or is it only LL you feel this is fair?

djimi · 17-10-2013 9:54am

Frank Black wrote: »

I'd be utterly ashamed embarrassed if I was renting out a place and didn't realise that I was owed €7K in rent over a 4 year period.

As would I. Doesnt change anything for the OP though, does it?

Frank Black wrote: »

Yes it does,
If he's not tax compliant, he's swindled the exchequer and the rest of us tax-payers out of money.
Furthermore, he's unlikely to pursue the OP for owed rent if as a consequence of this, he will end up bringing the matter to revenue's attention.

Are the PRTB and Revenue linked? I dont think they are?

Furthermore, there is nothing to suggest that the landlord is not tax complient; its just a lot of people on here making that assumption based on the tenancy seemingly not being PRTB registered (which may or may not be the case given the unreliability of the PRTB website).

Bottom line, the OP owes the money regardless of how the landlord conducts his business. If the OP wants to chance their arm and let the PRTB deal with it then more power to them, but for the amount of money we are talking about I really find it hard to believe that the landlord wont look to pursue this matter further, even if they arent PRTB registered.

Frank Black · 17-10-2013 9:55am

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I wonder how you would feel if you heard a story of a LL reporting a tenant for lying to social welfare about not working, living with partner etc...

Tax compliance of a LL has no baring on what is owed and to try and use it as a method to swindle a LL out of rent due is low. How do you feel about people reporting people in general or is it only LL you feel this is fair?

A landlord, rents a property out to tenants. He doesn't have a lease in place with said tenants and is non-registered.

He fails to notice that his rent is short over a ridiculously prolonged period of time, then out of the blue turns up and demands payment of €7,000 off said tennant while waving some bank statements around.

These are the facts that we know.

Is the LL tax-compliant?
We don't know, but given he is not registered and that he hasn't a lease with his tenants, it's certainly a possibility.

Now most posters see to think that the OP should immediately give in to his LL demands and just hand over €7K to the guy. Personally, I don't think that's a very good learning experience for the LL as he has failed in 3 basic requirements (no lease, ne reg and no early action over unpaid rent). By all means some of the owed rent should be paid back - but handing over €7K to a dodgy LL - nope - the lost rent may serve as a valuable wake-up call for him.

Faith · 17-10-2013 9:56am

Normally this forum irritates me because it's so aggressive towards tenants, but in this instance, I can't believe what I'm reading. The OP openly admits to defrauding the landlord of €7000 by simply not paying rent on many occasions, and you're suggesting that they should get away with it because the landlord didn't manage his affairs well enough?!

The mind boggles at such stupidity.

I can only assume anyone supporting the OP here also supported the banks trying to screw the Irish people. Sure, we didn't look closely enough at what was going on, so we deserve to be screwed now.

No Pants · 17-10-2013 10:05am

Frank Black wrote: »

The LL tax matters have a direct bearing on whether the LL will decide to pursue the owed rent off the OP - so it's completely relevant.

From the OP's description of the situation, there is a distinct possibility that this guy is both non-registered and non-tax-compliant.

I don't have much sympathy for a LL who lets this level of debt build up and if I was the OP I'd brazen it out and see what happens.

The thread is obviously full of a lot of LL's giving out LL-centric 'advice'.

Let me clarify this: I'm not a landlord. I never was a landlord. The way this country is right now, it's unlikely that I'll ever be a landlord.

I've been a tenant in two different countries between 1992 and 2007. I'm a house owner since 2007.

All my bills are paid. Always have been, minus the occasional billing mixup. One time I did find myself, along with one other tenant in a houseshare, owing a landlord money. Money that I couldn't afford. I had to take out a loan from AIB to clear it up.

Now that's said, my opinion is that depriving the landlord of €7k owed to him is a scummy thing to do.

Tokyo · 17-10-2013 10:11am

Frank Black wrote: »

Really?

Apologies - I meant to just say non compliant, but the rest of my post still stands.

Frank Black · 17-10-2013 10:13am

No Pants wrote: »

Let me clarify this: I'm not a landlord. I never was a landlord. The way this country is right now, it's unlikely that I'll ever be a landlord.

I've been a tenant in two different countries between 1992 and 2007. I'm a house owner since 2007.

All my bills are paid. Always have been, minus the occasional billing mixup. One time I did find myself, along with one other tenant in a houseshare, owing a landlord money. Money that I couldn't afford. I had to take out a loan from AIB to clear it up..

Well done, I hereby present you with your 'I'm not a landlord certificate'.

No Pants wrote: »

Now that's said, my opinion is that depriving the landlord of €7k owed to him is a scummy thing to do.

Let's say for a moment he is not tax compliant.
If the property rented out at €1K a month, then over 4 years, allowing for the €7K shortfall and assuming that LL was paying tax at the marginal rate, he would have defrauded the revenue by nearly €17K.
Is this more scummy?
Should the OP not investigate this prior to handing over his €7K?

djimi · 17-10-2013 10:15am

Frank Black wrote: »

A landlord, rents a property out to tenants. He doesn't have a lease in place with said tenants and is non-registered.

He fails to notice that his rent is short over a ridiculously prolonged period of time, then out of the blue turns up and demands payment of €7,000 off said tennant while waving some bank statements around.

These are the facts that we know.

Is the LL tax-compliant?
We don't know, but given he is not registered and that he hasn't a lease with his tenants, it's certainly a possibility.

Now most posters see to think that the OP should immediately give in to his LL demands and just hand over €7K to the guy. Personally, I don't think that's a very good learning experience for the LL as he has failed in 3 basic requirements (no lease, ne reg and no early action over unpaid rent). By all means some of the owed rent should be paid back - but handing over €7K to a dodgy LL - nope - the lost rent may serve as a valuable wake-up call for him.

What has a lease got to do with anything? Its not a legal requirement and indeed a lot of tenancies continue just fine on a part 4. Seems a very strange thing to judge a landlord on, especially when you are making assumptions about their tax complience based on it.

I think that you are being overly emotive about this. If you want to believe that the landlord should be taught a lesson then fair enough, however the law would not agree with you. Whatever you feel about the landlord, the bottom line is that the arrears are owed and must be paid, and if this were to go before the PRTB then they would say exactly the same. Whether the landlord would pursue the matter that far (and its absolutely ridiculous to think that wouldnt, given the amount of money in question) remains to be seen, but there is no sense in trying to second guess the landlord, or in bull****ting the OP about the situation that they find themselves in. At the end of the day the money is owed and will almost certainly be pursued. If the OP lucks out and the landlord doesnt chase them for it then more power to them, but thats unlikely to happen in my opinion.

djimi · 17-10-2013 10:19am

Frank Black wrote: »

Let's say for a moment he is not tax compliant.
If the property rented out at €1K a month, then over 4 years, allowing for the €7K shortfall and assuming that LL was paying tax at the marginal rate, he would have defrauded the revenue by nearly €17K.
Is this more scummy?
Should the OP not investigate this prior to handing over his €7K?

The landlords financial affairs are none of the OP's business, and the OP will not be investigating anything.

Again with the assumptions. You are making a fairly wild assumption about the landlord based on some loose evidence that may or may not be true. The other side of it is that we know for certain about the OP; how much they owe and how their lax approach to paying rent allowed them to get to this situation. Why you are jumping to defend the tenant while seemingly looking for any angle to paint the landlord as the bad guy is beyond me.

ted1 · 17-10-2013 10:27am

Frank Black wrote: »

I'd be utterly ashamed embarrassed if I was renting out a place and didn't realise that I was owed €7K in rent over a 4 year period.

Yes it does,
If he's not tax compliant, he's swindled the exchequer and the rest of us tax-payers out of money.
Furthermore, he's unlikely to pursue the OP for owed rent if as a consequence of this, he will end up bringing the matter to revenue's attention.

In all fairness Frank that's rubbish. Plenty if land lords can rent out places at a loss so that there is zero tax liability. Especially if the income is missing 2 k a year

Frank Black · 17-10-2013 10:27am

djimi wrote: »

The landlords financial affairs are none of the OP's business, and the OP will not be investigating anything.

Again with the assumptions. You are making a fairly wild assumption about the landlord based on some loose evidence that may or may not be true. The other side of it is that we know for certain about the OP; how much they owe and how their lax approach to paying rent allowed them to get to this situation. Why you are jumping to defend the tenant while seemingly looking for any angle to paint the landlord as the bad guy is beyond me.

I don't understand your difficulty in understanding the fairly simple point I'm making.
If the LL is liable for tax to the tune of multiples of what he is owed by the OP, do you not think it's likely he won't pursue the matter?
How this is irrelevant or unworthy of investigation by the OP is beyond me.

The current 'advice' for the OP is to just pay up - well, I'm offering some alternative advice which even if the LL is totally above board leaves the OP no worse off than he would be if he takes the advice most here are offering.

handlemaster · 17-10-2013 10:32am

only thing really known here is the tenant is trying to make excuses not to pay what he/she agreed to pay. The landlord and tenant need to come to some arrangement where by this money that is due is paid back. If the landlord had been hounding the tenant for the monies not paid in time Im sure he wouldnt be in this situation now. To nice or stupid for his own good. Im sure the tenant has known there were rents not paid. Pay the man for his property or your just stealing.

miss no stars · 17-10-2013 10:33am

troll is troll?

maguic24 · 17-10-2013 10:38am

Frank Black wrote: »

I don't understand your difficulty in understanding the fairly simple point I'm making.
If the LL is liable for tax to the tune of multiples of what he is owed by the OP, do you not think it's likely he won't pursue the matter?
How this is irrelevant or unworthy of investigation by the OP is beyond me.

The current 'advice' for the OP is to just pay up - well, I'm offering some alternative advice which even if the LL is totally above board leaves the OP no worse off than he would be if he takes the advice most here are offering.

The OP should pay up, simple as. He owes the 7000, he admitted to this and as other posters have mentioned, to not pay this is downright theft!! If a landlord did you out of money, you would effing and blinding about the injustice etc, it works both ways!!

djimi · 17-10-2013 10:38am

Frank Black wrote: »

If the LL is liable for tax to the tune of multiples of what he is owed by the OP, do you not think it's likely he won't pursue the matter?

Its a pretty big "if" in fairness.

Frank Black wrote: »

How this is irrelevant or unworthy of investigation by the OP is beyond me.

What investigation do you think the OP is going to be able to make, other than waiting it out and seeing what happens?

Frank Black wrote: »

The current 'advice' for the OP is to just pay up - well, I'm offering some alternative advice which even if the LL is totally above board leaves the OP no worse off than he would be if he takes the advice most here are offering.

The current advice is that the money is owed. What the OP chooses to do with that is their own business (by the sounds of it they dont intend to pay, but thats their choice I guess). Legally the OP is in arrears that must be paid; whatever else you might think, that is the only relevant fact based on what we know to be true (as opposed to what we might assume to be the case).

Help needed!!!

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