Help needed!!!

info13

Hi All,

I have been renting a house for the past 4years my landlord arrives today and says his calculations over time that we are missing about 7,000euro in payments over the years he is now looking for the money back all of it.

He is not registered with the PRTB and also we have no lease for the past 3years out of the 4 as he never bothered to renew it...

Can he really chase us for this money after all this time especially springing it on us like that where we have missed payments over time should he not have notified us of it a long time before??


advice is needed asap.....


thanks

dearg lady

Have you left him short 7,000? That's seems like quite a large amount that might be noticed...

info13

yes over the years but only he is bringing it to light now... what to do? can he take this back??

info13

also no way we could afford to pay him back now at this stage

athtrasna

I'm guessing your rent is payable weekly but you've been paying 4 weeks rent once a month? That would leave the landlord short 4 weeks a year??

Not having a lease doesn't really mean anything in that you would automatically have been on a Part IV tenancy. You do need to check your original contract, if you still have it to see what it says about rent due?

info13

yeah we pay weekly and a few payments which we have missed maybe also on top of that. what if we just have to move out can he come after us for the arrears?? not sure why he let it go on so long without seen it as alot the payments were genuine missed from us.

djimi

The first thing Id be looking for is a detailed calculation and breakdown as to how he reached that figure. The next thing Id be looking for is for him to backup his figures.

djimi

info13 wrote: »

yeah we pay weekly and a few payments which we have missed maybe also on top of that. what if we just have to move out can he come after us for the arrears?? not sure why he let it go on so long without seen it as alot the payments were genuine missed from us.

Of course he can pursue you for the money owed, especially if there are missed rent payments.

info13

he showed us bank details and the dates of payments missing not sure what to do for sure cant afford to pay him back

djimi

If he takes a case against you with the PRTB and fully pursues you for the money (and for that amount he absolutely will) then it will buy you some time, as it will probably take a year or so to get a judgement against you.

If there is no doubt that the money is owed then the best thing to do is probably see if you can come to some sort of an arrangement and possibly a payment plan. If you cant pay the full amount then chasing you is going to ultimately be a fruitless endeavour, so from the landlords point of view it would be better for them to get something out of you to cover the arrears.

info13

can he still go to the PRTB if he has never registered us with them??

banbhaaifric

Just to clarify, your rent is due each week but you've been paying it once a month (with the landlord's agreement). But each month you've paid 4 weeks rent instead of a months rent. And you've also missed a few months over the years?

I can see where confusion arises with the weekly/monthly thing - but I don't really get the missed payments. Did you just think he was going to let them go?

As athtrasna says, your first thing should be to check the original lease. At the very least though you owe the missed payments.

info13

no never thought he would let them go or something just were genuine missed payments over time which i didnt keep closer eye on things

djimi

info13 wrote: »

can he still go to the PRTB if he has never registered us with them??

Hell probably be made pay arrears to register (there is also the outside chance of a fine) but I imagine for the amount of money in question he will take that chance.

djimi

info13 wrote: »

no never thought he would let them go or something just were genuine missed payments over time which i didnt keep closer eye on things

Genuine missed payments? Come on, thats not exactly going to cut it as an excuse.

The weekly/monthly payments is a mess and an easy trap to fall into. If a landlord wants rent paid weekly then it really should be collected weekly. If its collected once a month then they need to come up with a monthly figure.

dearg lady

djimi wrote: »

Genuine missed payments? Come on, thats not exactly going to cut it as an excuse.

The weekly/monthly payments is a mess and an easy trap to fall into. If a landlord wants rent paid weekly then it really should be collected weekly. If its collected once a month then they need to come up with a monthly figure.

OP said they pay weekly, I'm a bit confused?!

djimi

dearg lady wrote: »

OP said they pay weekly, I'm a bit confused?!

Youre right, sorry.

Must have been a hell of a lot of missed payments so to rack up €7000 of arrears...

dearg lady

djimi wrote: »

Youre right, sorry.

Must have been a hell of a lot of missed payments so to rack up €7000 of arrears...

Agreed!
As others have said OP, I'd say you best bet is to try reach a payment plan with the landlord.

ted1

info13 wrote: »

yeah we pay weekly and a few payments which we have missed maybe also on top of that. what if we just have to move out can he come after us for the arrears?? not sure why he let it go on so long without seen it as alot the payments were genuine missed from us.

A few payments ? At 7k your taking the piss, pay the man what you owe

info13

What if I just leave?

MouseTail

info13 wrote: »

What if I just leave?

He can still take a case against you. He was very foolish not to have kept a closer eye on his account to ensure you were up to date with rent, but equally it was your responsibility to pay your rent in full and on time. This is a clear cut case. The PRTB will find against you and you will have to pay. Far better to reach some sort of agreement with him now to pay over time.

wirelessdude01

Gonna guess you missed a payment once and when the LL didn't bring it up you thought to yourself that we can get away with this every once in a while. 7k in missed payments over a 4 year period is a lot of rent. 1.75k each year. Even if you take out the 4 weeks per year as outlined above at an average rent of lets say 150 per week that still leave well over a grand extra per year that you just didn't bother paying. Of course the LL has every right to expect payment.

ted1

info13 wrote: »

What if I just leave?

Do you like broken legs?

murphaph

OP: You have clearly not "accidentally" forgotten to pay 7k over 4 years (if that is the correct figure and you don't seem to be disputing it at all). You've been intentionally paying less than you agreed to. This is more or less theft. The LL had his eye off the ball (but I don't know his circumstances, perhaps he was ill or looking after a sick family member and trusted his tenants to pay their dues).

Go talk to Threshold and see what they say.

Ray Palmer

In fairness a 7k loan without interest is a great deal. You are lucky the LL doesn't charge you interest.

The LL mistake in letting it slide but the tenant also has responsibility to insure they pay what they owe too. It is hard to believe that both parties were completely unaware.

It has happened to me that I missed some invoices being paid and it is easy to do with lots of transactions going on.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

That's a lot of money to rack up in 4 years. I pay 11400 a year for rent (950 a month). 7k is more than half a years rent so in four years you missed half a years worth of payments? That's a lot. I realize that is based on my figures but I live in your average 2 bed appt in commuter belt so our situations could be comparable.

No Pants

info13 wrote: »

also no way we could afford to pay him back now at this stage

Not his problem. Get a loan.

info13

No Pants wrote: »

Not his problem. Get a loan.

Well is his problem pretty much too

handlemaster

You own you pay.

djimi

info13 wrote: »

Well is his problem pretty much too

Youre the one who will ultimately end up with a judgement against you to pay the outstanding money.

No Pants

info13 wrote: »

Well is his problem pretty much too

No, it's not his problem. He's fulfilled his side of the contract, which is to put a roof over your head. You haven't paid the agreed amount.

On top of this, your responses on this thread are disappointing, "I can't afford it", what happens if I leave?" etc.

Scortho

Landlord could potentially risk a lot of scrutiny if he pursues...Hed have to register with prtb plus risk being fined etc.

Not only that, if he isnt registered theres an increased chance of him not being tax compliant so he could end up being hounded by revenue.

If it was me, id be letting him get all of his books in order and taking me to the PRTB.
Buys me time and if they do side with him, means im not going to be paying much more.

Ray Palmer

Scortho wrote: »

Landlord could potentially risk a lot of scrutiny if he pursues...Hed have to register with prtb plus risk being fined etc.

Not only that, if he isnt registered theres an increased chance of him not being tax compliant so he could end up being hounded by revenue.

If it was me, id be letting him get all of his books in order and taking me to the PRTB.
Buys me time and if they do side with him, means im not going to be paying much more.

Firstly you aren't really right on any point on this. PRTB fines rarely happen. He could be PRTB registered but not showing on the website.

PRTB registration has absolutely no connection to tax. People do pay tax and aren't registered with PRTB. Even if he isn't that doesn't mean revenue come after him due to PRTB dispute.

Lovely gesture. Somebody fails to pay their rent and you suggest anyway to avoid paying it as long as possible.

OP come to an agreement on a payment plan you owe the money and you will not get away with it.

jlm29

This thread is gas. "I didn't bother paying 7k in rent. Is that grand?". "No, op, it isn't grand, it's illegal, and you owe 7k". "Oh, well I won't bother anyhow, tough s**t landlord"".
Op, what did you expect from this thread?
Seems like your best option at this point would be to come up with some kind of payment plan with the landlord, and clear your debt. I have a sneaking suspicion though, that that's not how you roll.

maguic24

info13 wrote: »

he showed us bank details and the dates of payments missing not sure what to do for sure cant afford to pay him back

Can you not arrange with him to pay a bit on top of the rent you are now paying and over time pay it back? Honestly, €7000 in payments...that's a lot of missed payments....did he show you the bank statements to prove this?

If he is owed the 7000 you will have to pay him back. If you're looking for a way out of it, it's not happening. How would you feel if someone owed you €7000? In my opinion, the best thing to do is have a chat with the landlord and come to some sort of an agreement to pay it back gradually.

Tokyo

"Hi All,

I have been renting out a house for the past 4 years to a bunch of fellas who I left to their own devices and didn't give any hassle to in the four years they were living there. Now fair enough I had my eye off the ball for a while, but just went through the bank statements today and they're over €7000 in arrears!!! I mentioned it today and I have a feeling that one of the lads might do a runner. What should I do???"


Put like that, it kind of says it all really. You're lucky the man hasn't gone straight to the police already - I bloody well would have. I think he's doing you a great favour by giving you the opportunity to explain yourself and pay off the debt, and I think you'd be wise to take him up on it...

As for how to pay him... where did the €7000 you should have spent on rent money go instead???

Scortho

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Firstly you aren't really right on any point on this. PRTB fines rarely happen. He could be PRTB registered but not showing on the website.

PRTB registration has absolutely no connection to tax. People do pay tax and aren't registered with PRTB. Even if he isn't that doesn't mean revenue come after him due to PRTB dispute.

Lovely gesture. Somebody fails to pay their rent and you suggest anyway to avoid paying it as long as possible.

OP come to an agreement on a payment plan you owe the money and you will not get away with it.

Surely if you're not registered with the prtb, that means fines.
Feck all good to compliant LLs if non registered aren't.

Neither did I say he wasn't paying tax.
However both of us know that those who aren't registered have a higher chance of not being tax compliant.

wirelessdude01

info13 wrote: »

Well is his problem pretty much too

Why did you come on here when you have such a bad attitude towards the replies that you are getting? Is it because no one else has told you to do a runner?

PennyWise11

info13 wrote: »

Hi All,

I have been renting a house for the past 4years my landlord arrives today and says his calculations over time that we are missing about 7,000euro in payments over the years he is now looking for the money back all of it.

He is not registered with the PRTB and also we have no lease for the past 3years out of the 4 as he never bothered to renew it...

Can he really chase us for this money after all this time especially springing it on us like that where we have missed payments over time should he not have notified us of it a long time before??


advice is needed asap.....


thanks

If your landlord is not registered with the PRTB he probably owes more than you do because he has not been taxed on his income for rent....he will hardly blow the whistle on himself!!!!!

Just a thought

Okay okay...not what I should be saying in this context...BUT....have had experience of guys who own multiple properties that are not registered, who swan around laying down the law for tenants.
I know this is an exceptional case in that the amount of debt ( if it's accurate) is way off the richter scale.....

But, I can't help wondering if a Landlord is genuine, upfront, paying taxes like the rest of us eejits etc......why on earth would he wait till he's owed €7000....

SOMETHING not quite right here

jlm29

PennyWise11 wrote: »

If your landlord is not registered with the PRTB he probably owes more than you do because he has not been taxed on his income for rent....he will hardly blow the whistle on himself!!!!!

Just a thought

Okay okay...not what I should be saying in this context...BUT....have had experience of guys who own multiple properties that are not registered, who swan around laying down the law for tenants.
I know this is an exceptional case in that the amount of debt ( if it's accurate) is way off the richter scale.....

But, I can't help wondering if a Landlord is genuine, upfront, paying taxes like the rest of us eejits etc......why on earth would he wait till he's owed €7000....

SOMETHING not quite right here

Ptrb and revenue are separate bodies. Being unregistered doesn't mean he isn't tax compliant. You're making an awful lot of assumptions there.

No Pants

PennyWise11 wrote: »

But, I can't help wondering if a Landlord is genuine, upfront, paying taxes like the rest of us eejits etc......why on earth would he wait till he's owed €7000....

SOMETHING not quite right here

You're right, something isn't quite right here, but we don't have the details. What we do have to work with is what the OP has already said; that he owes €7k and doesn't want to pay it.

Regardless of the landlord situation, if the OP owes €7, he needs to pay it. The landlord's tax matters, if not above board, will catch up with him eventually.

Frank Black

No Pants wrote: »

.

Regardless of the landlord situation, if the OP owes €7, he needs to pay it. The landlord's tax matters, if not above board, will catch up with him eventually.

The LL tax matters have a direct bearing on whether the LL will decide to pursue the owed rent off the OP - so it's completely relevant.

From the OP's description of the situation, there is a distinct possibility that this guy is both non-registered and non-tax-compliant.

I don't have much sympathy for a LL who lets this level of debt build up and if I was the OP I'd brazen it out and see what happens.

The thread is obviously full of a lot of LL's giving out LL-centric 'advice'.

djimi

Frank Black wrote: »

The thread is obviously full of a lot of LL's giving out LL-centric 'advice'.

So because someone has the common decency to suggest that the OP should pay the money that they owe, they automatically must be a landlord giving landlord-centric advice? I am a tenant, and I would be utterly ashamed and embarrassed if I missed one rent payment, let alone enough to build up €7k worth of arrears.

Whether you have sympathy for the landlord or not, and whether or not you believe that the landlord is tax complient really doesnt change anything for the OP. The bottom line is that the OP owes the arrears, and must pay them; what the landlord does with that money is their own business and a seperate issue.

Frank Black

djimi wrote: »

I would be utterly ashamed and embarrassed if I missed one rent payment, let alone enough to build up €7k worth of arrears.

I'd be utterly ashamed embarrassed if I was renting out a place and didn't realise that I was owed €7K in rent over a 4 year period.

djimi wrote: »

Whether you have sympathy for the landlord or not, and whether or not you believe that the landlord is tax complient really doesnt change anything for the OP.

Yes it does,
If he's not tax compliant, he's swindled the exchequer and the rest of us tax-payers out of money.
Furthermore, he's unlikely to pursue the OP for owed rent if as a consequence of this, he will end up bringing the matter to revenue's attention.

Tokyo

djimi said it before I could, but yes, now we're promoting the idea that "if you can get away with it, go for it" on the forums??

There's nothing in the original post to suggest that the landlord is non registered and non compliant, but even if he is, that's not the issue at hand here. However, plenty has been said to suggested that the OP has not paid his rent for quite a long time and now plans to do a runner, which IS the issue here. One does not simply "accidentally" forget to pay €7,000 in rent and bills over the course of a few years - that the OP has effectively said is:

"I've defrauded someone of €7,000 and now I've been caught? What should I do??"

followed by a couple of "well tough **** to the landlord" when people have suggested that he might want to pay it back asap.

Telling the OP to man up and pay up before it goes further is not "LL-centric 'advice'" - it's very basic "how not to be a complete and utter ****wit advice", and quite honestly is advice that should never need to be given here, because no-one in their right mind would do what the OP did, and then expect a pat on the back and advice on how to get away with it afterwards... And I don't have to be a landlord, swanning around from property to property, to know that much.

Frank Black

mike_ie wrote: »

There's nothing in the original post to suggest that the landlord is non registered and non compliant,

Really?

info13 wrote: »

He is not registered with the PRTB and also we have no lease for the past 3years out of the 4 as he never bothered to renew it...

Ray Palmer

Frank Black wrote: »

Yes it does,
If he's not tax compliant, he's swindled the exchequer and the rest of us tax-payers out of money.
Furthermore, he's unlikely to pursue the OP for owed rent if as a consequence of this, he will end up bringing the matter to revenue's attention.

I wonder how you would feel if you heard a story of a LL reporting a tenant for lying to social welfare about not working, living with partner etc...

Tax compliance of a LL has no baring on what is owed and to try and use it as a method to swindle a LL out of rent due is low. How do you feel about people reporting people in general or is it only LL you feel this is fair?

djimi

Frank Black wrote: »

I'd be utterly ashamed embarrassed if I was renting out a place and didn't realise that I was owed €7K in rent over a 4 year period.

As would I. Doesnt change anything for the OP though, does it?

Frank Black wrote: »

Yes it does,
If he's not tax compliant, he's swindled the exchequer and the rest of us tax-payers out of money.
Furthermore, he's unlikely to pursue the OP for owed rent if as a consequence of this, he will end up bringing the matter to revenue's attention.

Are the PRTB and Revenue linked? I dont think they are?

Furthermore, there is nothing to suggest that the landlord is not tax complient; its just a lot of people on here making that assumption based on the tenancy seemingly not being PRTB registered (which may or may not be the case given the unreliability of the PRTB website).

Bottom line, the OP owes the money regardless of how the landlord conducts his business. If the OP wants to chance their arm and let the PRTB deal with it then more power to them, but for the amount of money we are talking about I really find it hard to believe that the landlord wont look to pursue this matter further, even if they arent PRTB registered.

Frank Black

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I wonder how you would feel if you heard a story of a LL reporting a tenant for lying to social welfare about not working, living with partner etc...

Tax compliance of a LL has no baring on what is owed and to try and use it as a method to swindle a LL out of rent due is low. How do you feel about people reporting people in general or is it only LL you feel this is fair?

A landlord, rents a property out to tenants. He doesn't have a lease in place with said tenants and is non-registered.

He fails to notice that his rent is short over a ridiculously prolonged period of time, then out of the blue turns up and demands payment of €7,000 off said tennant while waving some bank statements around.

These are the facts that we know.

Is the LL tax-compliant?
We don't know, but given he is not registered and that he hasn't a lease with his tenants, it's certainly a possibility.

Now most posters see to think that the OP should immediately give in to his LL demands and just hand over €7K to the guy. Personally, I don't think that's a very good learning experience for the LL as he has failed in 3 basic requirements (no lease, ne reg and no early action over unpaid rent). By all means some of the owed rent should be paid back - but handing over €7K to a dodgy LL - nope - the lost rent may serve as a valuable wake-up call for him.

Faith

Normally this forum irritates me because it's so aggressive towards tenants, but in this instance, I can't believe what I'm reading. The OP openly admits to defrauding the landlord of €7000 by simply not paying rent on many occasions, and you're suggesting that they should get away with it because the landlord didn't manage his affairs well enough?!

The mind boggles at such stupidity.

I can only assume anyone supporting the OP here also supported the banks trying to screw the Irish people. Sure, we didn't look closely enough at what was going on, so we deserve to be screwed now.

No Pants

Frank Black wrote: »

The LL tax matters have a direct bearing on whether the LL will decide to pursue the owed rent off the OP - so it's completely relevant.

From the OP's description of the situation, there is a distinct possibility that this guy is both non-registered and non-tax-compliant.

I don't have much sympathy for a LL who lets this level of debt build up and if I was the OP I'd brazen it out and see what happens.

The thread is obviously full of a lot of LL's giving out LL-centric 'advice'.

Let me clarify this: I'm not a landlord. I never was a landlord. The way this country is right now, it's unlikely that I'll ever be a landlord.

I've been a tenant in two different countries between 1992 and 2007. I'm a house owner since 2007.

All my bills are paid. Always have been, minus the occasional billing mixup. One time I did find myself, along with one other tenant in a houseshare, owing a landlord money. Money that I couldn't afford. I had to take out a loan from AIB to clear it up.

Now that's said, my opinion is that depriving the landlord of €7k owed to him is a scummy thing to do.