Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

80s Child · 24-09-2013 10:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Any truth to the rumor that Feeney was not played by Horan due to a pre-match bust up after Feeney made his own travel arrangements and travelled by car instead of the team bus(out of necessity) ?

Feeney would of been worth a couple of points yesterday in the half forwards, including preventing some of those kickouts to the Dublin half backs. Feeney should of took the position of the clubmate of Horans that went missing yesterday(again).

This is starting to gain momentum and if true, would be extremely disappointing. To not play someone on the basis of a personal thrift would be damaging to Horan's cause.

GBXI · 24-09-2013 10:57AM

ultrapercy wrote: »

Despite the lack of quality in Mayo forward line they still would have won this All Ireland had they not conceded 2 soft goals. The loss of Clarke through injury was a huge blow to Mayos chances. If you gift 4 goals to the opposition in 2 AI finals you need forwards who can get you 13 points to cancel them out and Mayo don't have that.

Sorry but that Clarke comment is rubbish - sure Hennelly was one of Mayo's best players on the day. Clarke probably won't get his place back if Hennelly decides to stay on.

jmayo · 24-09-2013 11:11AM

YouTookMyName wrote: »

The mentality is the biggest problem.

Trying to get a group of mayo men not to shít themselves on the 3rd Sunday in September is the biggest challenge.

Horan should draft a few sports physiologists.

That is not fair to a lot of the players who played to their ability and gave it everything.

Yes there are a few who I think haven't the capability of performing when the real pressure comes on, but it is only a few.

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Mayo simply did not have the forwards and until they have the likes of Padraic Joyce, Ja Fallon and Michael donnellan they won't get over the line

How many counties will have a Joyce and Donnellan ?
When will Galway be again blessed with such a great combination ?

As regards realweirdo and his comments.
I agree with a lot of them, but I just think his timing and forcefulness is wrong at the moment.

He is right the management do need to learn some things from this defeat and they really need to find a couple of good reliable forwards.
Realistically a couple of the guys are not up to it.

The current panel are just not good enough.
We can't have passengers in September and it is now necessary to have half decent subs not more so so players.
As it is Andy Moran has gotten slower and O'Connor now has a suspect shoulder so they need help and some others to shoulder the load.

Could a couple of the minors be fast tracked ?
Perhaps they could be put on a strength and fitness regime at once and bulk them up.
It isn't impossible to do that, but the danger is if they are pushed too soon and too much is expected of them it could set them back years.

At this stage I don't care if we even indulged in luring in a forward from another county.
Cork won two All Irelands with two Kildare men very prominent.
Granted I wouldn't want this to turn into a sad and disgusting debacle like with a certain Cavan man.

cosatron · 24-09-2013 11:32AM

genuine neutral here. just wondering why was alan freeman taking off, he didn't hit his stride against tyrone until the second half. Was he injured? i thought dillon would of been the first lad to go, closely followed by mclaughlin.

stdidit · 24-09-2013 11:38AM

cosatron wrote: »

genuine neutral here. just wondering why was alan freeman taking off, he didn't hit his stride against tyrone until the second half. Was he injured? i thought dillon would of been the first lad to go, closely followed by mclaughlin.

Someone said he was suffering from flu, cant confirm that though as he looked comfortable to me and was playing well enough.

GBXI · 24-09-2013 11:41AM

stdidit wrote: »

Someone said he was suffering from flu, cant confirm that though as he looked comfortable to me and was playing well enough.

I saw Horan quoted in the Indo as saying he had the flu. There is no way it was a tactical switch, Freeman had the beating of O'Carroll and was directly involved in 3 points before he went off. Again, Dublin completely deserving winners and the best team all year, I just think the Freeman injury/illness had a huge impact on Mayo's chances.

yop · 24-09-2013 11:45AM

GBXI wrote: »

I saw Horan quoted in the Indo as saying he had the flu. There is no way it was a tactical switch, Freeman had the beating of O'Carroll and was directly involved in 3 points before he went off. Again, Dublin completely deserving winners and the best team all year, I just think the Freeman injury/illness had a huge impact on Mayo's chances.

Had flu since last Tues. Heat only added to it and left him near the edge of not been able to breath.
It effected us for sure but I think we lacked a plan B there with him also.

We gather ourselves and move on. No one died, we can still win it, been here before.

Barlett · 24-09-2013 11:59AM

Yeah, get over this week now and start thinking about next year. For the players the club championship beckons so not much time to dwell. The Connaught is saying Horan intends to see out the final year of his contract.

I think they'll be close again next year if they can keep everyone together and the backroom team involved.

But I believe they should try to win the National League next year, at this stage the win could give them a real boost mentally.

For me the loss of Freeman and Higgins up front was the real changing of the game and the main reason we lost.

ultrapercy · 24-09-2013 12:02PM

GBXI wrote: »

Sorry but that Clarke comment is rubbish - sure Hennelly was one of Mayo's best players on the day. Clarke probably won't get his place back if Hennelly decides to stay on.

incorrect, Hennelly threw in Brogans first goal. The difficult thing about being a goalkeeper is that saves are meaningless if you make a headless chicken decision like Hennelly did on Sunday. Mayo were completely dominant until that goal changed the dynamic of the contest. Hennelly has been brilliant and was again on Sunday but will have to shoulder the biggest share of responsibility for the defeat after a rush of blood to the head. The second goal was a defensive disaster and of course he cant be blamed for the 2 soft goals in last years final because he wasn't playing. Mayo need to learn not to gift goals to the opposition if they are to win AI.

Gerry91 · 24-09-2013 12:05PM

80s Child wrote: »

This is starting to gain momentum and if true, would be extremely disappointing. To not play someone on the basis of a personal thrift would be damaging to Horan's cause.

I'm really disappointed not only did Richie see zero game time on Sunday but that he has been criminally underused since Connacht

Thought he was one of our best players v Roscommon and I was delighted to see him in the team that day. There's room for a guy like Richie in basically every team and especially ours- he can kick a score, has a superb workrate and is great at turning over possesion.

I said it this time last year that he could become a key player for us in 2013. That's one of my main disappointments- why we didn't use him enough. In the final in 2012 he came on and took the game to Dobegal on his own for a while near the end. He made a superb impact. To not even bring him on on SUnday was daft. I think he is criminally underrated by Horan. He's not the youngest man in the world but Dillon's time is up now I think sadly, and I can't think of a better man to replace him with

jmayo wrote: »

The current panel are just not good enough.

I've heard this quite a bit over the last few days and I couldn't disagree more. I wouldn't be this gutted and dejected if I felt they weren't good enough. This team is well and truly good enough to win an All Ireland and were well and truly good enough to beat that Dublin team we saw on sunday. This one'll take a while to shake off

Had COC gone for a goal at the end, imagine that somehow the ball went in. Would a simple kick of a ball have then elevated us to good enough? We played miserably yet lost by the kick of a ball

The team is good enough and is good enough to win it next year.

Not performing on sunday is seriously sickening. I still can't understand it

yop · 24-09-2013 12:09PM

ultrapercy wrote: »

incorrect, Hennelly threw in Brogans first goal. The difficult thing about being a goalkeeper is that saves are meaningless if you make a headless chicken decision like Hennelly did on Sunday. Mayo were completely dominant until that goal changed the dynamic of the contest. Hennelly has been brilliant and was again on Sunday but will have to shoulder the biggest share of responsibility for the defeat after a rush of blood to the head. The second goal was a defensive disaster and of course he cant be blamed for the 2 soft goals in last years final because he wasn't playing. Mayo need to learn not to gift goals to the opposition if they are to win AI.

Have to agree with regards Hennelly I am afraid, he made MASSIVE saves during the match, but he was solely at fault for that goal and it had a major impact on the flow of the game.
As a keeper for a lot of years the role is to stop goals, if the ball is in your area you take man and ball (legally of course), so Hennelly should have cleaned everything in front of him OR stayed on his line.
Again his saves after that were excellent, but thats his job.

I have said it in many many posts in this forum with regards the keeper and Clarke was a massive loss, Hennelly has always been 1 game away from a mistake.

tacofries · 24-09-2013 12:13PM

Mayo went in 1 point ahead at half time, thanks to hennelly. fair enough he let in the first goal , but he stopped two others after, so tbh I cant say that first goal had that big an impact. it was the forwards and all their missed oppurtunities that in my view had the major impact..

Gerry91 · 24-09-2013 12:25PM

I nearly have a sick feeling in my stomach writing this- well to be honest I actually do

But my own 2c of the match after properly digesting it

This was so much easier last year, I knew we were beaten by a better side and had taken one step closer to reaching the top. I knew we'd come back all guns blazing in 2013. And we did. We bloody hammered EVERYONE, even Tyrone after a shaky start. This was the year...

I was buzzing with the early start. We had them completely rattled after ten minutes. Mannion and Connolly had efforts that ended up in row z, we turned over huge amounts of possession and ran all over them. The goal was a killer. We missed some early chances (that O'Connor free still haunts me), and suddenly began to look clueless when we reached the middle third. Bar Higgins of course. They grew in confidence, started finding kick outs with much more ease and O'Gara made a huge impact. By half time I was grateful we were still leading which seemed mad- we could have been out of sight early doors. Had Mayo got a goal before Brogan's (which like last year should never have bloody happened!!!) we'd have won Sam I think.

In fairness the Dubs missed some goal chances in the first half and credit to Hennelly. Freeman going off was a huge blow, he was making a real nuisance of himself. Pumping similar ball into Andy and Conroy was never ever going to reap dividends.

Second half- putting Higgins back really wasn't ideal but clearly James felt Keane wasn't up to it. I'd be interested to hear if he could have that substitution back again would he change his mind with the benefit of no pressure. Anyway the Dubs owned the second half and used possession far better. Even when Andy got the goal I was still despondent. But if we only we could have gotten the next score... anyhow the last ten minutes were not pretty, although credit Enda Varley for a very underrated impact.

AT ten minutes to go in an All Ireland final surely there is a case for throwing caution to the wind and lobbing Aidan into FF and try a few high balls in. Three points down and the game well and truly in the Dubs' court surely something different needs to be done.

I don't blame Cillian for going for point. Does it really require 40 seconds to tap a ball over the bar? Hard to blame McQuillan there

Our HB line was outstanding, impressed with Cafferkey too (Bernard got 2-4 but not the better of Cafferkey for me), SOS fought hard, while Higgins was super and Andy fought admirably also.

Disappointingly only 3 names of the front 8 can be included here...

We let them win far too many easy kick outs in the second half.

Anyway we have to bounce back. Won't be easy but I'm sure training will recommence in November and the lads will be hellbent on giving it a real go.

The team is good enough to win an All Ireland

Believe

GBXI · 24-09-2013 12:37PM

ultrapercy wrote: »

incorrect, Hennelly threw in Brogans first goal. The difficult thing about being a goalkeeper is that saves are meaningless if you make a headless chicken decision like Hennelly did on Sunday. Mayo were completely dominant until that goal changed the dynamic of the contest. Hennelly has been brilliant and was again on Sunday but will have to shoulder the biggest share of responsibility for the defeat after a rush of blood to the head. The second goal was a defensive disaster and of course he cant be blamed for the 2 soft goals in last years final because he wasn't playing. Mayo need to learn not to gift goals to the opposition if they are to win AI.

Sorry but what was incorrect about my above comment?

Hennelly was at fault for the 1st goal but there was nothing stopping Mayo winning the game from then on. And Hennelly's save from O'Gara when Caff got got out was one of the best you'll ever see (keeping them in the game).

The exact same mistake was made by Clarke in last years final but luckily Murphy punched over the bar. Hennelly is better than Clarke all round for me.

So to sum up, Clarke was absolutely no loss to Mayo on Sunday because Hennelly has shown himself to be his equal, if not better.

keane2097 · 24-09-2013 12:40PM

I'm not convinced Hennelly was at fault for the first goal.

yop · 24-09-2013 12:47PM

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm not convinced Hennelly was at fault for the first goal.

Picture here tells a tale. Note Hennellys position, note how he is not where near the ball and is 6" lower than either his fullback and Brogan. The ball was never his to win based on that. Hence if his fullback wasn't going to get the ball then he was there on the line to pick up the scraps.

Fr Tod Umptious · 24-09-2013 12:50PM

This time last year there was a good bit of positivity from Mayo folk over the way the final had played out, going 7 down early in the first half and only ended up loosing by 4 seemed to give people some sort of sense of a 'moral victory' in the final analysis

Personally I was not that happy as I though that day was a cast iron opportunity to win it all and an opportunity lost.

But what are peoples opinions now.
This year we only lost by 1 and where in the game for far longer than we have been in a final since '96 or '97
And we were a dominant team all season
So are people as positive about 2014 now and they were about 2013 then ?

keane2097 · 24-09-2013 12:50PM

yop wrote: »

Picture here tells a tale. Note Hennellys position, note how he is not where near the ball and is 6" lower than either his fullback and Brogan. The ball was never his to win based on that. Hence if his fullback wasn't going to get the ball then he was there on the line to pick up the scraps.

Still images don't tell anything when it comes to sports. The ball ends up going from Brogan's hand downwards so there's not necessarily anything wrong with Hennelly's positioning in that picture. Not saying his positioning is correct either, just that you can't tell from a still.

On another note, thought this article was a pretty good response to all the overreaction and blame-gaming that's been going on in the aftermath of the game.

http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2013/09/mayo-football-is-alive-and-well.html

Kristopherus · 24-09-2013 12:51PM

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm not convinced Hennelly was at fault for the first goal.

Well, there was certainly no conviction in the effort he made. When a goalie decides to come for that kind of ball, he must do so with the determination that,come hell or high water, he will get to punch the ball way out of danger.

ultrapercy · 24-09-2013 12:54PM

GBXI wrote: »

Sorry but what was incorrect about my above comment?

Hennelly was at fault for the 1st goal but there was nothing stopping Mayo winning the game from then on. And Hennelly's save from O'Gara when Caff got got out was one of the best you'll ever see (keeping them in the game).

The exact same mistake was made by Clarke in last years final but luckily Murphy punched over the bar. Hennelly is better than Clarke all round for me.

So to sum up, Clarke was absolutely no loss to Mayo on Sunday because Hennelly has shown himself to be his equal, if not better.

The incedent in the Donegal final was different as Clarke was forced to come to stop Murphy gathering the ball. To me Clarke did well in that situation. Hennelly made a poor and costly decision for the goal on Sunday. I don't want to castigate the man, mistakes happen and goalkeeper mistakes are always highlighted and he has been very good besides. My main point is about the general soft nature of the goals Mayo concede in AI finals. Its hard to win when you let the opposition have largely unearned goals.

keane2097 · 24-09-2013 12:58PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Well, there was certainly no conviction in the effort he made. When a goalie decides to come for that kind of ball, he must do so with the determination that,come hell or high water, he will get to punch the ball way out of danger.

I think most people seem to be thinking he should have stayed on his line. I've been very vocal in the past in my belief that GAA goalies come off their line way too often but I thought Hennelly had to come out in that situation with the angle on the ball in and how close it was dropping to the goal.

Assuming he had to come out it's just three guys going for a high ball, it's pretty much in the lap of the gods - Cafferkey is as much at fault for not getting a hand on it as Hennelly is, and I don't really think there's such a thing as "fault" in that situation tbh - just good luck.

stdidit · 24-09-2013 01:00PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Still images don't tell anything when it comes to sports. The ball ends up going from Brogan's hand downwards so there's not necessarily anything wrong with Hennelly's positioning in that picture. Not saying his positioning is correct either, just that you can't tell from a still.

l

I actually think you can tell a lot from that picture. If a keeper comes for the ball he simply has to get it and as the picture is taken, Brogan is making his contact with the ball while Hennelly is nowhere near close enough to it so he should have either come earlier and taken man, ball, everything with him or else he should waited on his line.

yop · 24-09-2013 01:01PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Well, there was certainly no conviction in the effort he made. When a goalie decides to come for that kind of ball, he must do so with the determination that,come hell or high water, he will get to punch the ball way out of danger.

Exactly my point. He was no where near that ball. As a keeper for 10 years myself that image is shocking, when the ball lands between the 3 players IF the keeper comes then he is the man who should be higher that the other 2 or at the very least the same height.
He made the wrong decision on that one, again a young keeper, but it was a costly mistake.

Gally05 · 24-09-2013 01:05PM

I am gutted regarding the loss at the weekend ....we lost , u can analysis it till the cows come home but the simple fact is Sam is in dublin and there is nothing we can do about it now..Keep our heads held high and move on.

Roll on next year ...

Barlett · 24-09-2013 01:10PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This time last year there was a good bit of positivity from Mayo folk over the way the final had played out, going 7 down early in the first half and only ended up loosing by 4 seemed to give people some sort of sense of a 'moral victory' in the final analysis

Personally I was not that happy as I though that day was a cast iron opportunity to win it all and an opportunity lost.

But what are peoples opinions now.
This year we only lost by 1 and where in the game for far longer than we have been in a final since '96 or '97
And we were a dominant team all season
So are people as positive about 2014 now and they were about 2013 then ?

We're all disappointed now, but if the whole team and backroom management stick with it for one more crack under Horan I think we'll be very optimistic come January.

There really wasn't much in that game on Sunday and we are without doubt the 2nd best team in the country.

I think they'll win a fourth Connaught title and once you make it to Quarter Final weekend it's a different ball game.

What did prove to be our undoing was the forward line and I don't think it's because we have a lack of forwards it's just many were unfit or out of form.

Moran, O'Connor and Freeman (as it turns out) all had question marks over their fitness...Andy didn't play a full 70 minutes all year. McLoughlin had a disappointing year in comparison to 2012 and Alan Dillon well I don't know, I think he struggled in a lot of games this year, but then he had a few niggling injuries coming into the campaign.

I think Higgins should remain in the half-forward line.

I saw nothing this year to make me think Mayo will be outside the top 4 next year. I suppose the real question mark will be can they motivate themselves to go again. I hope so

GBXI · 24-09-2013 01:15PM

ultrapercy wrote: »

The incedent in the Donegal final was different as Clarke was forced to come to stop Murphy gathering the ball. To me Clarke did well in that situation. Hennelly made a poor and costly decision for the goal on Sunday. I don't want to castigate the man, mistakes happen and goalkeeper mistakes are always highlighted and he has been very good besides. My main point is about the general soft nature of the goals Mayo concede in AI finals. Its hard to win when you let the opposition have largely unearned goals.

So we can agree that Clarke certainly was not a big loss to Mayo at the weekend. He wasn't missed at all (which was your main point if I remember).

The 2 incidents are so alike. Clarke had less of a reason to come out last year than Hennelly this year, as the ball was a lot closer to goal when it came down this year than last. Clarke completely missed the ball, took out Caff, and Murphy (inexplicably) punched over the bar.

Yes, it's hard to win when you concede soft goals.

Just a note on the 1st Dublin goal (nothing to do with how the game panned out). It was actually an own-goal, palmed into the net by Ger Caff, tho all the credit is going to Brogan for the goal.

ultrapercy · 24-09-2013 01:18PM

GBXI wrote: »

So we can agree that Clarke certainly was not a big loss to Mayo at the weekend. He wasn't missed at all (which was your main point if I remember).

The 2 incidents are so alike. Clarke had less of a reason to come out last year than Hennelly this year, as the ball was a lot closer to goal when it came down this year than last. Clarke completely missed the ball, took out Caff, and Murphy (inexplicably) punched over the bar.

Yes, it's hard to win when you concede soft goals.

Just a note on the 1st Dublin goal (nothing to do with how the game panned out). It was actually an own-goal, palmed into the net by Ger Caff, tho all the credit is going to Brogan for the goal.

Oh no Im sorry we cant agree on that at all. Clarkes loss was crucial. Im very sorry if I was unclear about that.

Gerry91 · 24-09-2013 01:23PM

Interestingly that's two "palmed" goals the Dubs have got in the latter two matches now.

I'm not going to include Bernard's second I'm more talking about a high ball coming in and a forward getting something on it. I think the high ball into full forwards is a very useful tactic and with Freeman fit I think it's one we should look at employing a lot more next year.

It was never going to be effective with Freeman going off, though as I've said there was arguably a case for lobbing one of the big men in full for the last ten.

Interestingly the two Dublin goals I'm talking about involved the full/corner back looking a bit shaky under the ball. It can be quite an effective tactic as even if the FF can get anything to it at all a corner forward might be waiting to pounce

Fr Tod Umptious · 24-09-2013 01:24PM

keane2097 wrote: »

On another note, thought this article was a pretty good response to all the overreaction and blame-gaming that's been going on in the aftermath of the game.

http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2013/09/mayo-football-is-alive-and-well.html

Yes that is a good article, I am not surprised that Liston's opinion is as it is, he has been mentioning the lack of marquee forward all year, he is consistent to be fair to him.

As others have said the health of the forwards have been a problem all year, remember Dillion is not 100% either with that long term stomach problem he has been carrying, and their luck just ran out totally when Freeman was lost.

yop · 24-09-2013 01:27PM

GBXI wrote: »

So we can agree that Clarke certainly was not a big loss to Mayo at the weekend. He wasn't missed at all (which was your main point if I remember).

The 2 incidents are so alike. Clarke had less of a reason to come out last year than Hennelly this year, as the ball was a lot closer to goal when it came down this year than last. Clarke completely missed the ball, took out Caff, and Murphy (inexplicably) punched over the bar.

Yes, it's hard to win when you concede soft goals.

Just a note on the 1st Dublin goal (nothing to do with how the game panned out). It was actually an own-goal, palmed into the net by Ger Caff, tho all the credit is going to Brogan for the goal.

No he was a massive loss and yes it had a massive impact on the game.
IF he didn't score the goal we would have been 4 points ahead.... Mayo had dominated the game yet Dublin were back in it, how is that not a massive impact. It was a huge physiological blow to the team and fans and as you will remember it lifted the Hill immensely.

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