Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

Defiler Of The Coffin

GBXI wrote: »

I'm delighted Clarke wasn't fit because Hennelly's a better keeper.

Disagree with this one here, Hennelly might have gone off last year on his own bat but I would have Clarke between the posts any day of the week. His KOs had improved since last year and could seriously have made a difference on Sunday

GBXI

yop wrote: »

IF he was then he wouldn't have made the wrong decision with that ball in. Simples.

How do you know? As I said, Clarke made the exact same mistake in the final last year. And him an experienced keeper

MaroonAndGreen

Do we need more scoring forwards? Yes we do. But whether we have them is a different story. Kevin McStay said today in his article in the Mayo News that its as simple as looking at the lads who score alot for their clubs and trying to see can they do it at Inter County level.

But who do we have at club level that isnt being given a chance?

1. Evan Regan from Ballina, scores alot for the club but hasnt seen any action really for Mayo.
2. Aidan Kilcoyne from Knockmore, another serial scorer at club level.
3. James Shaugnessy, Mayo U21 who is Claremorris' best forward and scores alot but hasnt seen Mayo Senior action.
4. Alan Murphy, another who scores bucketloads for Ballinrobe.
5. Mark Ronaldson, still Shrule/Glencorrib's only real class forward, and is scoring for fun for them, doesnt seem to be getting a chance with Mayo?

I cant pinpoint any other options that arent already in the panel?

I know Regan and Shaugnessy will get their chance as they are still U21, but I think theres alot to be said about giving Murphy and in particular Ronaldson and Kilcoyne a chance.

Ronaldson and Kilcoyne are consistently year after year two of the top scorers in Club Championship and league, and are certaintly more natural scorers than Varley, Doherty etc.

What ye think lads?

stdidit

keane2097 wrote: »

That argument has never made sense to me - "if he comes for it he has to get it".

If he has to come for it he has to come for it whether he gets it or not. I thought at the time he had to come for it as I said because of the flight of the ball and the position of the two players ahead of him.

If you have to go for it and you make the correct decision to go for it you've got that part of your job right. Adding in that you also have to get it, I dunno, just seems too much to demand from a goalkeeper who unlike soccer doesn't have any advantage in competing for high balls with other players.

If he's in a situation where he has to come for it he's been left in a really bad spot by his defence in one way or another, as they've forced him into a situation where he's no more a favourite to win the ball then anyone else.

If he has to come for it the only thing he can fully control is the decision to come or not, after that he has no more right or obligation to win the ball than whoever else he's challenging for it with.

EDIT: Just to add, in coming for it he should have been quicker off his line and should have challenged for the ball better, but I don't think he's automatically at fault for coming off his line and not getting it - the fault is farther back the line with the players who let it get to that situation.

I dont think he had to come for it. Cafferkey has an inch or two on Brogan so I think there was very little chance of Brogan getting a clean enough fist to beat the keeper if he had waited on his line.
I wouldnt be too critical of him as it was a tough decision to make in a split second, but ultimately he got it wrong. It happens, but fair play to him he didnt let it get to him, and went on to have a very good game besides.

Defiler Of The Coffin

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Do we need more scoring forwards? Yes we do. But whether we have them is a different story. Kevin McStay said today in his article in the Mayo News that its as simple as looking at the lads who score alot for their clubs and trying to see can they do it at Inter County level.

But who do we have at club level that isnt being given a chance?

1. Evan Regan from Ballina, scores alot for the club but hasnt seen any action really for Mayo.
2. Aidan Kilcoyne from Knockmore, another serial scorer at club level.
3. James Shaugnessy, Mayo U21 who is Claremorris' best forward and scores alot but hasnt seen Mayo Senior action.
4. Alan Murphy, another who scores bucketloads for Ballinrobe.
5. Mark Ronaldson, still Shrule/Glencorrib's only real class forward, and is scoring for fun for them, doesnt seem to be getting a chance with Mayo?

I cant pinpoint any other options that arent already in the panel?

I know Regan and Shaugnessy will get their chance as they are still U21, but I think theres alot to be said about giving Murphy and in particular Ronaldson and Kilcoyne a chance.

Ronaldson and Kilcoyne are consistently year after year two of the top scorers in Club Championship and league, and are certaintly more natural scorers than Varley, Doherty etc.

What ye think lads?

Ronaldson was dropped by Horan before right, then went off to Australia for a bit? Could be worth revisiting but IIRC he wasn't a big player, would need conditioning before being brought back to the fold

MaroonAndGreen

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Ronaldson was dropped by Horan before right, then went off to Australia for a bit? Could be worth revisiting but IIRC he wasn't a big player, would need conditioning before being brought back to the fold

Not sure of the past situation, but looking at some of the scores he posts for Shrule/Glencorrib he could be an option maybe.

The squad needs a fresh face or two again now I think, especially after this disappointment

yop

GBXI wrote: »

How do you know? As I said, Clarke made the exact same mistake in the final last year. And him an experienced keeper

Nope, look again at the incident and tell us what happened?
Tell us what Moran said about Clarkes save and what impact it had on this season.

As I said, from a keepers point of view, he made the wrong decision and changed the direction and impetuous of the game at that point of time and it probably had a bearing on the result.

I don't minimize his following saves, as I said they were massive saves, but thats his role within the team.

yop

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Not sure of the past situation, but looking at some of the scores he posts for Shrule/Glencorrib he could be an option maybe.

The squad needs a fresh face or two again now I think, especially after this disappointment

Its strange that he hasn't been included, Alan Murphy clocked up some massive scores all season and Jimmy Kileen from Garrymore has been consistently in the top scorers and Mayo News team of the year for the last 3-5 years.
While a player can be top notch at club its that step to the next level where it breaks down.
Wasn't Ciaran McDonald averaging 7 points a game yet was left off the panel, though I know there was a LOT more to that drama.

GBXI

yop wrote: »

Nope, look again at the incident and tell us what happened?
Tell us what Moran said about Clarkes save and what impact it had on this season.

As I said, from a keepers point of view, he made the wrong decision and changed the direction and impetuous of the game at that point of time and it probably had a bearing on the result.

I don't minimize his following saves, as I said they were massive saves, but thats his role within the team.

I told you what happened, Clarke missed the ball completely, impeding Caff along the way, and Murphy punched over the bar. Poor goal-keeping.

Thar's what Moran said it meant to him, not anyone else. A crucial save though that probably stopped us from being hammered. No more than the list of unreal saves Hennelly made on Sunday.

MaroonAndGreen

yop wrote: »

Its strange that he hasn't been included, Alan Murphy clocked up some massive scores all season and Jimmy Kileen from Garrymore has been consistently in the top scorers and Mayo News team of the year for the last 3-5 years.
While a player can be top notch at club its that step to the next level where it breaks down.
Wasn't Ciaran McDonald averaging 7 points a game yet was left off the panel, though I know there was a LOT more to that drama.

Apparently James Horan isnt too keen on Shrule/Glencorrib, as the Mortimer family statement claimed after Conor left last year, but thats unlikely. Although when you see that Ronaldson and Dermot Geraghty were dropped early in the Horan reign and Conor feels he was forced out then maybe there is something to it, we'l never know :P

The thing with Killeen is, he is a top class free taker, and id guess that 70% of his scores come from frees. Do we need another free taker? Although at the same time ive often seen Garrymore games where Killeen has outshone Varley.

yop

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Ronaldson was dropped by Horan before right, then went off to Australia for a bit? Could be worth revisiting but IIRC he wasn't a big player, would need conditioning before being brought back to the fold

I thought he was an upcoming star at minor and U21? I don't remember his really at senior outside of FBD games.
There is also O'shea no 3 and O'connor no 2.

MaroonAndGreen

yop wrote: »

I thought he was an upcoming star at minor and U21? I don't remember his really at senior outside of FBD games.
There is also O'shea no 3 and O'connor no 2.

I actually recall him playing a sweeper role for John O'Mahony in some games, but dont know much about his Inter County career.

Are they scoring forwards though?

Id look towards Tommy Conroy from this years minor team more than them

ultrapercy

GBXI wrote: »

How do you know? As I said, Clarke made the exact same mistake in the final last year. And him an experienced keeper

How do you know?

yop

GBXI wrote: »

I told you what happened, Clarke missed the ball completely, impeding Caff along the way, and Murphy punched over the bar. Poor goal-keeping.

Thar's what Moran said it meant to him, not anyone else. A crucial save though that probably stopped us from being hammered. No more than the list of unreal saves Hennelly made on Sunday.

Exactly, 1 point as oppossed to 3. He came and hit both Caff and Murhpy so he couldn't hit the ball down. He contested the ball and put Murphy off.

So Moran felt that save was important to him?

yop

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I actually recall him playing a sweeper role for John O'Mahony in some games, but dont know much about his Inter County career.

Are they scoring forwards though?

Id look towards Tommy Conroy from this years minor team more than them

Conroy was a fine player. Liam Irwin has all the tricks but he looks extremely slow if thats a fair statement to make.
Regan has been touted for a few years.
AK lives away doesn't he or something? Always thought he was a good player.

Correct about Jimmy Kileen re free's though nothing wrong with having more than one reliable free taker either. A scorer is a scorer.

Out of the U21 who do we see coming through?

leonidas83

HON MAYO

keane2097

The goal Irwin got against Roscommon was majestic.

GBXI

yop wrote: »

Exactly, 1 point as oppossed to 3. He came and hit both Caff and Murhpy so he couldn't hit the ball down. He contested the ball and put Murphy off.

So Moran felt that save was important to him?

Sorry but you're clutching at straws here. And you know I'm right!
Murphy should have scored the goal, no doubt. Clarke's decision-making was poor in that instance. He came out and clattered Caff but didn't touch Murphy, he even tried to catch the flippin' thing!

yop

GBXI wrote: »

Sorry but you're clutching at straws here. And you know I'm right!
Murphy should have scored the goal, no doubt. Clarke's decision-making was poor in that instance. He came out and clattered Caff but didn't touch Murphy, he even tried to catch the flippin' thing!

I'm speaking from a point where I played years and years in goal and worked with Eircom league goal keepers, attended goal keeping coaching course and have actually worked with Hennelly at underage for 2 years.

Your not right I'm sorry. Have a good at the video here and tell us what happens:

11th minute.
He makes contact with the man (2) of them and puts Murphy off, therefore not conceeding a goal.

Then look at what happens here, whats his starting position, whats his leading leg and where are his arms? Note where he starts his jump and where he lands.
What contact did he make with the ball and/or man?

I asked you already about Morans point and you said "Thar's what Moran said it meant to him, not anyone else", and you probably believe that too.
Have a read about what Horan said on that point, here is the article
http://www.hoganstand.com/mayo/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=176586
Also note he was stand-in captain, you don't achieve that from not been at the top of your game.

Read what Maughan said about that point in the game, I don't have a link to that but it was a radio interview.

yop

keane2097 wrote: »

The goal Irwin got against Roscommon was majestic.

Top class wasn't it. He did similar in Croker again the cheeky mare!

http://balls.ie/gaa/goal-of-the-season-from-mayo-minor/

MaroonAndGreen

I really think Conroy and possibly Conor Loftus are the only minor forwards that could eventually make the step up.

U21s? Regan, Shaugnessy, Adam Gallagher?

yop

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I really think Conroy and possibly Conor Loftus are the only minor forwards that could eventually make the step up.

U21s? Regan, Shaugnessy, Adam Gallagher?

Regan is playing hurling too isn't he? Will he stick at it?
DAnny Kirby has had some great games at underage and with Mitchels, is a bit lad and has began to bulk out. Played with him when he was young lad and has bags of potential.
Coen has gone quite too, expect him to return?
Gallagher I would be shocked if he didn't make it and Durkan to a lesser extent.

But the progression from Minor to U21 to Senior is massive and when college/work and social life or injury comes into it then lads heads are turned. How many times have we seen exceptional young talent not progress.

I do think COC will become one of the best forwards to pull on the red and green, will he be that "marquee" forward, another year will tell a tale, that shoulder is a big issue but fully fixable.

GBXI

yop wrote: »

I'm speaking from a point where I played years and years in goal and worked with Eircom league goal keepers, attended goal keeping coaching course and have actually worked with Hennelly at underage for 2 years.

Your not right I'm sorry. Have a good at the video here and tell us what happens:

11th minute.
He makes contact with the man (2) of them and puts Murphy off, therefore not conceeding a goal.

Then look at what happens here, whats his starting position, whats his leading leg and where are his arms? Note where he starts his jump and where he lands.
What contact did he make with the ball and/or man?

I asked you already about Morans point and you said "Thar's what Moran said it meant to him, not anyone else", and you probably believe that too.
Have a read about what Horan said on that point, here is the article
http://www.hoganstand.com/mayo/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=176586
Also note he was stand-in captain, you don't achieve that from not been at the top of your game.

Read what Maughan said about that point in the game, I don't have a link to that but it was a radio interview.

He did not put Murphy off. He left his goal empty, hammered it his full-back, barely touched Murphy, all the while trying to catch the ball into his chest! Again, poor decision-making, just like Hennelly's on Sunday. Murphy's reaction shows he knew he could have scored a goal.

You're getting confused over your quotes and saves. Andy Moran is quoted as having said Clarke's save in the final from McFadden (having just conceded 2 goals) was crucial in showing they weren't going to lie down and take a hammering again. The save in the semi v Brogan was crucial in getting them to the final, no doubt.

keane2097

I don't think Clarke did much to put off Murphy there at all, just got a bit of luck that Murphy didn't hit the target. In Sunday's game the forward got the bit of luck rather than the goalie.

JoeCole26

Can anyone shed any light on Higgins attempted point at the very start of the game on Sunday. I was at the game but at the far end of the Cusack stand, so couldn’t see it too well. Umpires called for hawkeye – and when it came up on the screen it looked like it hit the post (even though it went over the posts) and said MISS. Watched it again on tv yesterday and even the commentators seemed a bit confused by it.

Fr Tod Umptious

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

The forwards badly need a shake up. New players and coaching. Leave Higgins up there and perhaps play McLoughlin in the backs. Throw Barry Moran in as well. The warning signs were there after the Tyrone match but they weren't heeded. All this talk about needing 'marquee' forwards is just a cliché that gets thrown out every time Mayo look shaky up front, they need to play as a tight cohesive unit, and Moran and O'Connor being fully-fit next year will give us a good foundation for improvement. Freeman has made serious improvements this year also and will play a crucial role in any comeback next year.

But what could have been done between Tyrone and the final ?

Cillian was always a doubt
Freeman was MOTM match but had to go off early
The likes of Conroy. Doherty etc were all seriously lacking game time
Higgins, though brilliant at 11, was always going to be required to help at the back also.

It's was just s**t luck that all year the part of the pitch where they were weakest was where the most injuries were.
And on the day that was compounded by Freeman going off.

keane2097

JoeCole26 wrote: »

Can anyone shed any light on Higgins attempted point at the very start of the game on Sunday. I was at the game but at the far end of the Cusack stand, so couldn’t see it too well. Umpires called for hawkeye – and when it came up on the screen it looked like it hit the post (even though it went over the posts) and said MISS. Watched it again on tv yesterday and even the commentators seemed a bit confused by it.

When Hawkeye is invoked if the ball would have touched the post it's considered a miss as Hawkeye can't judge where it would have bounced off the post to.

john mayo 10

Darragh Doherty looks an exciting prospect aswell

seligehgit

keane2097 wrote: »

Still images don't tell anything when it comes to sports. The ball ends up going from Brogan's hand downwards so there's not necessarily anything wrong with Hennelly's positioning in that picture. Not saying his positioning is correct either, just that you can't tell from a still.

On another note, thought this article was a pretty good response to all the overreaction and blame-gaming that's been going on in the aftermath of the game.

http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2013/09/mayo-football-is-alive-and-well.html

Really good article Keane!

irishgeo

keane2097 wrote: »

When Hawkeye is invoked if the ball would have touched the post it's considered a miss as Hawkeye can't judge where it would have bounced off the post to.

its only the blue virtual post, if it even looks like it hit the blue virtual post its a miss as the rules state any ball the goes over the top of the post is wide.