Public Service Broadcasting Charge update

The Cush wrote: »

The Greek TV Licence is suspended for the moment following the shutting down of ERT.

The annual fee was €51.60 and collected via the electricity bill from every electricity account whether they had a TV or not.

News broadcasts have restarted from the new public service broadcaster EDT recently - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23777246

And again this is sheer lunacy. To prop up a propaganda machine of the Government.

nacho66 wrote: »

I pay motor tax because I use public roads, read public signs, wait on public lights. Maintaining those requires finances, percentage of which I'm ready to cover because I effectively use it. I also release smoke into the atmosphere. I think it's clear and understandable. No arguing here. However, as you well know, if you have a car in the garage and don't drive, you don't pay motor tax (Garda can sign a document if you prove you haven't driven it for last whatever months)

By having a TV alone I don't use public service. I use electricity, which I pay bill for, and I use TV package from some provider like UPC or Sky or whatever, also paid. Throw some playstation games on top of that. As long as I don't watch RTE and don't listen to public radio, I'm not using the service, so what the hell am I paying for?

If it's just for having a TV as a physical object, why am I not paying Computer License on top of my broadband bills? After all, I may visit some public service website, right?

So where's the equation?

PS: is there any tax/license for using bicycles on public roads/pavements?

No there isn't. Very well put. The solution is to make RTE subscription. End of problem. While dragging RTE into the real world and out of their cocoon in D4.
Then if people want to buy tunerless monitors to which they stream that also increases their choice.

Like most DCENR and Comreg consultations, this seems to be another paper pushing exercise, where they have predecided what the outcome will be regardless of the submissions. A case in point is that they have ruled out collection via electricity bill. The consultation states:

DCENR Consulation Doc wrote:

While various collection mechanisms have been considered, the current proposition is that a collection agent independent of the public service broadcasters should be appointed for the administration and collection of the charge. In any event, stringent collection targets will be set for the collection agent backed up by a more effective enforcement regime.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/554905C1-9BE8-4CC5-A984-ADCFED572908/0/ConsultationonPublicServiceBroadcastingCharge.pdf

From the VFM document:

VFM Doc wrote:

Collection methods researched varied but the possibility of requiring electricity suppliers to collect the fee as part of their regular billing in order to minimise collection costs and reduce evasion was considered. However, further consideration led the Department to conclude that there was a wider role than just collection required, including monitoring and enforcement, and as such an independent dedicated agent would be more appropriate.

VFM wrote:

In line with its terms of reference, the Group noted the different collection methods researched by the Department, and especially that, in developing its original proposal, the Department considered the possibility of requiring electricity suppliers to collect the fee as part of their regular billing in order to minimise collection costs and reduce evasion. However, the Group acknowledged the Department’s view that there was a wider role than just collection required especially in terms of monitoring and enforcement, and as such had proposed that an independent dedicated agent would be appropriate. The Group endorsed this aspect of the original proposal and felt that consideration should be given to conducting a tender process to appoint the agent. This should promote competition and, therefore, efficiency and effectiveness.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/C5FB5FDA-712B-4296-B1FC-D572726420A0/0/VFMReport.pdf

One can understand DCENRs wish to have an independent collection agency, because like all Irish government departments, they want to hive off all responsibility onto someone else, so in the case of something going wrong, or other criticism, they can shrug their shoulders and claim "it's nothing to do with us" (e.g. DCENR/Comreg, Health/HSE and various other quangos).

But why not then use an independent collection agency which is charged with collection, but still use the electricity bill method???

They then go on about the unreliability of the ESBN database and suggest the TV licence database would be "at least as useful" - with no evidence to support this - and while even acknowledging that that the ESBN database is larger than the TV Licence database (2.2M vs 1.9M).

The line being fed to media is that this expert group ruled out collection via electricity bill

Independent.ie wrote:

It will replace – and will not exceed in cost – the €160 television licence, which is currently being collected by An Post but is being evaded by more than 270,000 people. And it will apply to all households even if they do not own a television.

An expert report has recommended Revenue as an option for collecting the tax from 1.7 million households after dismissing proposals that it should be collected by electricity companies like the ESB or by RTE itself.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rabbitte-lines-up-taxman-to-collect-new-broadcast-charge-29532223.html

Can anyone find a concrete reason from DCENR why this method of collection has been ruled out or am I missing something?

Are they going to take it off An Post and give Comreg the responsibility?
Once upon a time the national P.O. regulated radio in each country. Today it's supposed Independent Regulators such as Ofcom and Comreg that are destroying broadcasting regulating & protecting spectrum raising revenue selling spectrum to Mobile Operators and managing spectrum licences.

It is a tax and always was a tax. Initially a tax on having a Radio. Taxing TVs was discussed in early 1950s but they didn't bring in TV licence till RTE launched TV (actually about 3 months early, August 1961, I presume 31st Dec 1961 was a delayed start date).

It's very suspicious.

The theory is likely that P.O., ESB etc would have to submit a tender. Often when someone "new" is secretly picked they insist that whatever the service is has to be publicly tendered. Whoever it is the Civil Service wants usually "wins".

watty wrote: »

TV3 want a free ride and no RTE.

Lots of people want no RTE Watty. Or the option to subscribe or not.

Sam Russell wrote: »

You do not subscribe to RTE - it's FREE. The licence applies to the apparatus to receive it. You do not have to watch.

What I am saying is that it should be an OPTION. Then those that want the bloody thing can pay for it. Instead of the rest of us being lumped with it.

Sam Russell wrote: »

The option is that you can watch it or not as the fancy takes you.

Would you rather pay for TV3?

I'd rather not pay for any of them. Remove the idiotic charge/licence. Make RTE sub or ad - one or the other.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Perhaps you should learn about stealth taxes ?

There are LOTS of stealth taxes I don't want to pay.
Water was free, bin collection was free.
The lotto means the govt has to pay out less for health & social projects
We paid for the M50 and we pay to use it. And considering that all taxpayers had to stump up for the M50 regardless of whether they can drive or no a TV license is a little fairer.

And for all of these a middleman gets a cut, just like AnPost gets a slice of the TV license.


Also a reminder that licensing receivers here goes back to 1904 , first for Radio and then for TV



Like I said earlier having the ESB collect €100 should be enough.



TBH a greater problem is eircoms extortionate line rental

This is more than a tax, It is a blatant attempt to continue the distortion of the broadcast market. I couldn't care less if RTE ceased to exist. If people want it then make it subscription only. That will eliminate the Montrose gravy train.

Sam Russell wrote: »

If you follow that logic, all TV should be subscription only. It would result in the loss of much of the support for the arts, and would reduce the standard of all Irish produced programmes to the depths already plumbed by TV3, and the wholesale importation of some of the worst derivative, cheap, American sourced lowest grade TV programmes. An example of this is 'Murder she wrote' which is an appalling series of formulaic, written by computer, acted by zombies, drivel ever to be on TV. Is that what you want?

As opposed to the "arts" that is Fair City.....or the Brendan O'Connor Show.....or the elitist orchestras?:rolleyes: Also -and this may surprise you - RTE have screened the aforementioned Murder She Wrote, along with other gems, for years. So please - at least do some research, will you?