Public Service Broadcasting Charge update

hfallada

Peter Rhea wrote: »

You think? You should know before you post something like that, preferably have a link to back it up.

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/this-is-exactly-how-your-tv-licence-fee-is-used-542836-Aug2012/

I think got the €30 mixed up the €30 million they fail to collect with the 17% evasion rate.

Sam Russell

cros13 wrote: »

So you want to charge me for a television I don't own just because I use electricity. You also want to charge me at more than one property where I also don't have a television?

And you consider that fair?

The reality is it's the 21st century... I've never owned a TV. The only people I know with a TV are my elderly parents. A straw poll in my office failed to turn up someone with a TV.

I have zero problem with a small amount of the fortune I pay in Income Tax going to fund TG4 or domestic film/tv production. But I object to funding a largely private TV station.

I already get harassed several times a year by TV license inspectors who want to enter my home to inspect my non-existent TV (I am now refusing, they can f*** off and come back with a garda and a court order.)

I'm wondering at this point if they do file a court case against me can I claim the 4-5 years worth of license fees in lost wages a nuisance court appearance would cost me.

I strongly suspect that most of that "15% evasion rate" is people who don't owe the license fee in the first place.

BTW, on the other devices argument... I also don't listen to any Irish radio stations, visit RTE.ie or use/view any of the output of RTE in any way. So why am I going to be charged for this again?

I do not know how many people do not own a TV or a method of connecting to the internet, but I suspect it is small at much less than 5%.

If the intention is to fund public cultural events (of which RTE and TG4 are part, but so are orchestras and other RTE enterprises) then it is a small price to pay. It is difficult to seperate PSB functions from the general pap produced as TV these days. Is the Late-Late show cultural? Not now, but it used to be - after all there was no sex in Ireland before The Late-Late!

It would be possible for those without a TV set to declare so on the eltricity supplier contract and be exempt. I]Opt out rather than not bother to buy a licence[/I which might be less prone to evasion.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would be possible for those without a TV set to declare so on the eltricity supplier contract and be exempt. I]Opt out rather than not bother to buy a licence[/I which might be less prone to evasion.

The TV licence changes into a household based Public Broadcasting Charge applied to all eligible households and businesses, regardless of the device used to access content or services, saying you don't have a TV won't exempt a household from the tax.

cros13

Sam Russell wrote: »

I do not know how many people do not own a TV or a method of connecting to the internet, but I suspect it is small at much less than 5%.

If the intention is to fund public cultural events (of which RTE and TG4 are part, but so are orchestras and other RTE enterprises) then it is a small price to pay. It is difficult to seperate PSB functions from the general pap produced as TV these days. Is the Late-Late show cultural? Not now, but it used to be - after all there was no sex in Ireland before The Late-Late!

It would be possible for those without a TV set to declare so on the eltricity supplier contract and be exempt. I]Opt out rather than not bother to buy a licence[/I which might be less prone to evasion.

The point you've missed is that the majority of people with internet and no TV do not consume content from RTE. If the intention is to fund public cultural events why would you give it to RTE? Why not put the whole lot into the arts council, film grants and the sound & vision fund? I'd have far less problem with paying for that even if I didn't consume the content.

Broadcasting in general is on the way out. I can't understand why RTE's 700Mhz spectrum isn't handed over for LTE.

The running theme in conversations with my friends is that TV is for the poor, the stupid and the elderly.

The Cush

cros13 wrote: »

I can't understand why RTE's 700Mhz spectrum isn't handed over for LTE.

The spectrum doesn't belong to RTÉ, it's a state resource managed by Comreg and licenced to users as required. A 700MHz consultation is expected from Comreg in the coming months.

cros13 wrote: »

The running theme in conversations with my friends is that TV is for the poor, the stupid and the elderly.

These figures might inform your conversations in future, from an IPSOS/MRBI study earlier this year

● 97% of Irish adults watch audio-visual content on a TV set EVERYDAY and viewing on a TV set accounts for 89% of all viewing

● The vast majority of adults in Ireland still prefer to watch TV at home, which accounts for 85.4% of all audio-visual content consumed.

● Outside of TV at home, laptop at home viewing is the next most popular activity, accounting for 4.6% of content consumed. Beyond TV at home and laptop at home, the viewing market begins to fragment with, interestingly, watching a TV set in someone else’s home (1.5%) being the third most popular device/location combination.

● Younger Irish viewers are the most likely to be viewing content on non-TV devices but live TV at home on the TV set still makes up the vast majority of their viewing

“The findings of this report clearly indicate that, despite the availability of content on new devices, the vast majority of Irish people are still watching most of their content at home on the TV set and watching it live. Beyond the TV set, laptops are the second-most popular device for viewing content with tablets still only accounting for 2% of content viewed.

TV remains a key source of relaxation in the home as almost half the time we are watching, we are not doing anything else and it is also a highly-social activity as 20% of the time we’re watching TV, we’re talking with others. “

http://tamireland.ie/node/325
http://tamireland.ie/node/326

RadioRetro

On Newstalk today;

"The Communications Minister has confirmed that he has no intention to increase the TV licence fee.

Pat Rabbitte made the comments, after it was reported last week that RTE's Director General Noel Curren would like to see the State broadcaster collect a greater proportion of its funding from public sources - as the company deals with a deficit of 60 million euro.

The TV licence fee will soon be replaced by a public broadcast charge - which will have to be paid by every household in the country - regardless if they own a television.

But Minister Rabbitte says the amount of 160 euro a year - will remain the same and that it won't be increased to bail RTE out."

Sam Russell

RadioRetro wrote: »

On Newstalk today;

"The Communications Minister has confirmed that he has no intention to increase the TV licence fee.

Pat Rabbitte made the comments, after it was reported last week that RTE's Director General Noel Curren would like to see the State broadcaster collect a greater proportion of its funding from public sources - as the company deals with a deficit of 60 million euro.

The TV licence fee will soon be replaced by a public broadcast charge - which will have to be paid by every household in the country - regardless if they own a television.

But Minister Rabbitte says the amount of 160 euro a year - will remain the same and that it won't be increased to bail RTE out."

If every house pays €160 per year, including the 15% that evade it, then RTE will get 15% more. If the collection fee is removed by a cheaper, more efficient method (such as the lecky bill) then RTE will get another 5% so overall RTE will get more dosh but the fee will remain the same. Both win.

The Cush

RadioRetro wrote: »

On Newstalk today;

"The Communications Minister has confirmed that he has no intention to increase the TV licence fee.

Pat Rabbitte made the comments, after it was reported last week that RTE's Director General Noel Curren would like to see the State broadcaster collect a greater proportion of its funding from public sources - as the company deals with a deficit of 60 million euro.

The TV licence fee will soon be replaced by a public broadcast charge - which will have to be paid by every household in the country - regardless if they own a television.

But Minister Rabbitte says the amount of 160 euro a year - will remain the same and that it won't be increased to bail RTE out."

Newstalk podcast here - http://www.newstalk.ie/reader/47.305.377/4331/blog_list/---RTE-cannot-be-financed-by-overdraft-–-Rabbitte

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rabbitte-rules-out-raising-tv-licence-fee-29227716.html
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/rabbitte-wont-increase-tv-licence-to-bail-out-rte-592772.html

Capt'n Midnight

josip wrote: »

I must be thick. We currently pay €160 for a TV license with a 15% evasion rate. 400,000 households get a free license and will also be exempted from the broadcasting charge. The broadcasting charge will have a lower evasion rate. Why will the broadcasting charge be €20 more expensive? I must be thick.

Because An Post makes something like €12 million on the licenses, even though they do an abysmal job of collecting them.

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/this-is-exactly-how-your-tv-licence-fee-is-used-542836-Aug2012/

RTÉ One – €58.01
RTÉ Two – €31.21
RTÉ Radio One – €13.40
RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta – €8.33
RTÉ Lyric FM – €4.79
RTÉ Performing Groups – €9.26
RTÉ Support for TG4 – €6.39
Broadcasting Authority of Ireland levy – €1.75
TG4 Deduction – €6.71
BCI Sound and Vision fund – €10.53
Collection Costs from An Post/Communications and Social Protection Departments – €9.62

The €9.62 from An Post no longer applies
What is the BCI for apart from subsidising Setanta via a vendor lock in system ? - it only works if you have a SKY box (yes you can use it in some other boxes, but it has to be activated against a SKY box by serial number)

So yeah the amount of the replacement for TV license should really only be
(160 - 10.53 - 9.62) * (1 -.15)

Which is 119

which is a tenner a month

And this extra tenner will have a few more people looking into moving off the grid which is a good thing ?

watty

The money to Setanta is state subsidy to pay TV. A disgrace.

The An Post collection charge isn't actually excessive, but indeed if the charge is universal then that vanishes.

It's a tax. Governments are always looking at ways to have more taxes. That's why we have VRT, tolls and Road Tax Disc, Fuel Excise Duty and VAT even though collection via Petrol/Diesel slight increase in duty would be fairer and cost less to collect and police. They don't want a single higher rate of VAT for fuel instead of Excise & VAT as part of VAT goes to EU.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

The money to Setanta is state subsidy to pay TV. A disgrace.

The An Post collection charge isn't actually excessive, but indeed if the charge is universal then that vanishes.

It's a tax. Governments are always looking at ways to have more taxes. That's why we have VRT, tolls and Road Tax Disc, Fuel Excise Duty and VAT even though collection via Petrol/Diesel slight increase in duty would be fairer and cost less to collect and police. They don't want a single higher rate of VAT for fuel instead of Excise & VAT as part of VAT goes to EU.

To collect Road Tax by adding excise duty to fuel would add at least 50c per litre, but its effect would be more on petrol than diesel.

Collection costs via the lecky bill is zero since all potential payers have an electricity bill. In fact, that would be an ideal way of placing the liability on those with electricity bills, since the payer of the bill is usually the consumer. If you do not want to pay, then you can sit in the dark looking at a blank screen. If it was only €12 or €13.33 per month, people would compare it with payTV (which is extra).

Capt'n Midnight

watty wrote: »

The An Post collection charge isn't actually excessive, but indeed if the charge is universal then that vanishes..

There are two parts to the charge €9.62,

and the 10% of license fees that are probably collectable - the difference between 15% evasion here and 5.2% in the UK.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-licences-facts-and-figures-AB18/ The latest official evasion rate for the United Kingdom is 5.2% of all licensable places (for the 2009/10 financial year).

And lets not forget that An Post can send out warning letters cheaper than anyone

watty

People here have less regard for the State/Law than in UK. A legacy of Colonialism. Hey lads, the administration in Dublin Castle has changed. We are robbing ourselves not the British any more.

At one stage certain parts of N.I. had 90% evasion.

FREETV

watty wrote: »

The money to Setanta is state subsidy to pay TV. A disgrace.

The An Post collection charge isn't actually excessive, but indeed if the charge is universal then that vanishes.

It's a tax. Governments are always looking at ways to have more taxes. That's why we have VRT, tolls and Road Tax Disc, Fuel Excise Duty and VAT even though collection via Petrol/Diesel slight increase in duty would be fairer and cost less to collect and police. They don't want a single higher rate of VAT for fuel instead of Excise & VAT as part of VAT goes to EU.

It is all a con like the carbon tax. Watch the documentary Thrive fellow boardsies on you tube and you will all be educated, the EU is a really bad idea if you really knew why it was established in the first place.
Follow the trail of the money, look at all the crap programming since August 2008 on RTE.

Forcing people who never watch television to pay the tax is undemocratic to say the least. More taxes, more control and a larger debt grip on the drone workers. Governments don't work for us, they work for the Elitists and will say anything to get in power for the power, control and the pursuit of wealth, what cushy jobs they have with media coverage, almost treated like celebrities and for what? Anyone who is looking forward to an Oireachtas TV channel to watch these plebs weekly is out of touch with reality and what is going on around them. Do you guys believe the farce going on in the Dail?

All these tax increases will have people further on their knees. Can you all see the pattern? The money going to Setanta is another contribution of further dumbing down, distracting,conditioning/acquiescing the sport loving public in order to stop mass outcry, protests and turmoil on the streets. Sad but true.

Apogee

Irish Independent wrote:

THE number of people jailed last year for the non-payment of TV licence fines jumped by almost 50pc.

According to figures provided by the Irish Prison Service, the numbers of people jailed for non-payment of licence fines last year increased from 183 to 272 – a jump of 89 or 48.6pc. In the past five years, since the recession took hold, the number jailed for this offence has increased more than five-fold.

Figures for 2008 show that 49 people were jailed, rising to 75 in 2009, 152 in 2010 and 183 in 2011.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jailings-for-nonpayment-of-tv-licence-fine-up-50pc-29267389.html

Sam Russell

People should not be gaoled for non-payement of the TV licence, but gaoled for non-payment of the fine. The fine should still stand and have to be paid after release from gaol. Two hours in gaol instead of €500 fine is obviously attractive alternative for some. Two hours in gaol in addition to a €500 fine is not a good choice for anyone. The law is there to allow the deduction of fines from wages or social welfare.

Gaol is there for criminals, not poor fools with no money.

7upfree

RadioRetro wrote: »

On Newstalk today;

"The Communications Minister has confirmed that he has no intention to increase the TV licence fee.

Pat Rabbitte made the comments, after it was reported last week that RTE's Director General Noel Curren would like to see the State broadcaster collect a greater proportion of its funding from public sources - as the company deals with a deficit of 60 million euro.

The TV licence fee will soon be replaced by a public broadcast charge - which will have to be paid by every household in the country - regardless if they own a television.

But Minister Rabbitte says the amount of 160 euro a year - will remain the same and that it won't be increased to bail RTE out."

They wouldn't be dealing with a deficit like that if they paid normal wages and stopped paying a fortune for imports and sports rights.

zg3409

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/broadcast-charge-to-be-less-than-tv-licence-if-more-people-pay-up-29366899.html

Lastest news

The Cush

Latest news

New proposals for a replacement for TV licence fee

The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Pat Rabbitte, has published proposals to replace the current television licence fee with a public service broadcasting charge which will apply to every household.

The new charge will come into effect on 1st January 2015 but will not exceed the current television licence fee of €160.

...

The Minister will be commencing a public consultation process on how the new public service broadcasting charge will be applied and collected.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0717/463066-new-proposals-for-a-replacement-for-tv-licence-fee/

Every single home to be hit with new Broadcasting Charge

...

Nobody will be able to refuse to pay the charge because it will apply regardless of whether you have a television, computer or any other device that can pick up public information.

...

There would be no excuse for not paying the charge, and the only exceptions would be for those currently exempt from the TV licence fee such as households in receipt of the household benefits package.

...

The changes were approved by the Cabinet yesterday after it considered the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland’s five-year review of how public service broadcasting is funded.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/every-single-home-to-be-hit-with-new-broadcasting-charge-29428338.html

zg3409

He does not say if they collect more money than they did using the old system, where that would go, to RTE or will the fee be reduced for everyone....I think not

The Cush

zg3409 wrote: »

He does not say if they collect more money than they did using the old system, where that would go

The review will be looking at reducing the advertising minutes on public broadcasting according to the various press reports

The minister will also be bringing forward new legislation to revise governance arrangements for the amount of advertising all broadcasters - public and commercial - are allowed to broadcast.

This could involve a cap in the number of minutes of advertising per hour that public service broadcasters are allowed to transmit.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0717/463069-bai-public-service-broadcasting-charge/

An Post will probably lose the collection contract

The new charge, which the Minister hopes to introduce by the end of 2014, is unlikely to be collected by An Post. “It seems to me that the merit of transitioning to a household-based charge would be undermined if the collection mechanism wasn’t improved,” Mr Rabbitte said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/media-and-marketing/rt%C3%A9-may-receive-more-public-money-1.1466490

and the new charge could be modelled on the property tax charge

The new universal charge will be collected in a way that tackles the current very high evasion rates of the TV licence fee - suggesting the payment mechanism could be modelled on the new property tax.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/every-single-home-to-be-hit-with-new-broadcasting-charge-29428338.html

Public consultation coming soon

The Minister will be commencing a public consultation process on how the new public service broadcasting charge will be applied and collected.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0717/463069-bai-public-service-broadcasting-charge/

Drivetime - http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A10164538%3A0%3A%3A (Pat Rabbitte interview - starts at 2:15:35)
Six-One News - http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2013/0717/3563868-communications-minister-announces-public-service-broadcasting-charge-proposals/
Nine News - http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2013/0717/3563965-television-licence-to-be-replaced-with-broadcasting-charge/
One News - http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2013/0718/3564197-bai-welcomes-review-of-funding-structure-for-broadcasting/
Today with PK - http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20226305%3A0%3A%3A (Pat Rabbitte interview)

The Cush

Dept of Communications press release - http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/2013/Rabbitte+publishes+5+year+review+of+public+service+broadcasting.htm

BAI Five year Review of Funding of Public Service Broadcasting - http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Broadcasting.htm

BAI press release - http://www.bai.ie/?p=3603

BAI press release (Thur 18th) - http://www.bai.ie/?p=3614

Extracts from the Government's response to the BAI Review

1. The Government;
- notes also the impact of recent changes on licence fee revenue, the evasion rate and the Programme for Government commitment to introducing a household based Public Broadcasting Charge to be applied to all eligible households and applicable businesses, regardless of the device used to access content or services, and that this would ameliorate many of the issues surrounding the question of evasion.

2. Summary of Response
...
4. The Minister will shortly be commencing a public consultation on the proposed household based Public Service Broadcasting Charge. The results of this consultation will be used in finalising the details of how the charge is to be applied and collected. It is not the Minister’s intention that the new PSB charge will be higher than the existing TV Licence Fee.

3. Key Recommendations
...
5. Public Service Broadcasting Charge

The Minister will be shortly commencing a consultation process on the proposed Public Service Broadcasting Charge. This consultation process follows a Value for Money (VFM) Policy review, the objective of which was to analyse whether the proposed alternative funding model to the traditional TV licence fee model could provide a more stable source of funding for public service broadcasting into the future by being more efficient and effective in terms of revenue intake and lowering the evasion rate.

The VFM Policy Review supported the concept of a household based Public Service Broadcasting Charge, in line with the Programme for Government commitment, and made recommendations on how such a charge might be implemented. These recommendations will form the basis of the consultation and, together with the views received from interested parties, will be used in finalising the details of how the charge will be applied and collected. Following this process, the Minister will finalise the Heads of a Bill for submission to Government for approval with the objective of implementing the charge on 1 January 2015

El Gato

Just another tax....

If it really is a public service broadcasting fee, it should only deal with terrestrial stations and by that standard why put it on all households? Just another tax

RikuoAmero

Hands up people if you honestly don't watch any Irish programming at all.

I for one don't. I've got a laptop and desktop computers, and a 40 inch TV, but no channel service for that at all. Everything I watch on it comes from either the Internet or on DVDs/Blu-ray. The shows I watch have nothing at all to do with Ireland, mainly sci-fi, fantasy, anime or Youtube channels (and I can tell, none of them are in Ireland). The closest I ever get is when I watch something with Colm Meaney or Cillian Murphy.
I made a choice a while ago to avoid all Irish broadcasting and I've never looked back.
So Rabbitte, still want to say I somehow owe money for Irish broadcasting, shows that I don't watch?

El Gato

This is like the bag of cûnts gov't saying : all households now have to pay motor tax regardless if there is a car in the household or not....

How much more are we going to put up with before the tipping point is reached and actual action is taken

http://www.attackthetax.com/

this should be added to the SPV already in motion

Phoebas

El Gato wrote: »

http://www.attackthetax.com/

this should be added to the SPV already in motion

Why??

1. Is there any indication that the broadcasting charge will be illegal?
2. What if I favour the broadcasting charge but am against the Property tax?

El Gato

Phoebas wrote: »

Why??

1. Is there any indication that the broadcasting charge will be illegal?
2. What if I favour the broadcasting charge tax but am against the Property tax?

FYP

1. So it's perfectly fine to impose a tax on people who do not use the service the tax intended to cover.

2. Can be dealt with separately by the same SPV...

So, why would you favour a broadcasting TAX

Hotblack Desiato

El Gato wrote: »

FYP

1. So it's perfectly fine to impose a tax on people who do not use the service the tax intended to cover.

There is this thing called society. You pay for schools even if you don't have kids. You pay for hospitals even if you're not sick. You pay for courts and prisons even if you're not a criminal.

Jesus Wept

Paying for propaganda.
They can **** off.

old_aussie

A TV license, how 1970's.

It must cost nearly as much to collect, inforce and recoup the fees, than the fees make in funds.

Got rid of radio and TV license's in 1974 in Australia. A step forward for the community.