Public Service Broadcasting Charge update

The Cush

Minister Pat Rabbitte was on RTÉ Radio 1's Media Show last weekend discussing the planned Public Service Broadcasting Charge, the replacement for the current TV Licence. It will not cost more than the current TV Licence.

TV Licence evasion is estimated at 15%.

He says the charge will not be introduced before 2014. It probably won't be included in the property charge but collected separately, the collection of the charge may have to be tendered out.

4 other countries are planning a similar charge and the planned Irish broadcasting charge will be informed by these developments.

The Independent broadcasters, seeking a cut of the licence fee, may not benefit directly but thru the BAI's Sound & Vision fund.

The Minister is to receive a BAI report on a major review of public service broadcasting funding in the coming weeks which will inform decisions in relation to the introduction of the broadcasting charge.

http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradiowebpage.html#rii=9%3A20188684%3A10627%3A13%2D04%2D2013%3A&type=radio
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/agribusiness-and-food/rabbitte-says-new-charge-no-cure-all-for-irish-media-1.1360227

The idea of a public service broadcasting charge to replace the TV licence was inculded in the manifestos of both government parties - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70927060

A youtube account is free.

Del2005

Deleted User wrote: »

A youtube account is free.

The charge is per household, it has nothing to do with what's in the house.

The Cush

At the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee yesterday attended by Department of Communications secretary general Aidan Dunning, included discussion of the planned broadcasting household charge, it was said that the property tax database together with the existing TV Licence, ESB connection and PRTB databases will be used to identify households.

The new charge will not be introduced until late 2014 until the household database is compiled.

410,000 people currently getting a free TV licence would be exempt from the broadcasting charge.

A broadcasting charge of around €180 would be required to deliver the current €220m in TV licence fee revenue.

Mr Dunning said the final decision on the cost of the broadcasting charge would be made by the Government.

But he said the "very minimum" required would be the approximately €220m revenue gathered each year from the TV licence.

There are around 1.6 million households in the country, but this number would drop to around 1.2 million if exemptions for those on free TV licences are taken into account.

That would mean a broadcasting charge of around €180 would be required to deliver the current €220m in TV licence fee revenue.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/property-tax-database-to-be-used-for-new-180-levy-29207079.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/new-tv-charging-scheme-will-provoke-big-brother-debate-29207156.html

Hotblack Desiato

If this is supposed to eliminate evasion and reduce collection/enforcement costs, then it should cost less than a TV licence to deliver the same income, not more.

Just another tax increase :mad:

Fuzzy Clam

ninja900 wrote: »

If this is supposed to eliminate evasion and reduce collection/enforcement costs, then it should cost less than a TV licence to deliver the same income, not more.

Just another tax increase :mad:

You're missing the point.
The income at present is short of what it should be due to evasion.

Hotblack Desiato

And when evasion is made very difficult then it'll no longer be 'short'.
That's no reason for the fee charged to go up - quite the opposite in fact.

icdg

The idea is that you won't be able to evade it. It'll be payable by every household.

I've philosophical difficulties with the idea of what then becomes essentially a poll tax - a tax on being alive - as there'd appear to be absolutely no qualification on who has to pay it. But on the other hand I can see the government's argument too, that RTÉ & TG4 are now consumed by people through methods other than television. I know at least one person who now doesn't own a TV and does all her viewing through the internet.

FREETV

icdg wrote: »

The idea is that you won't be able to evade it. It'll be payable by every household.

I've philosophical difficulties with the idea of what then becomes essentially a poll tax - a tax on being alive - as there'd appear to be absolutely no qualification on who has to pay it. But on the other hand I can see the government's argument too, that RTÉ & TG4 are now consumed by people through methods other than television. I know at least one person who now doesn't own a TV and does all her viewing through the internet.

This whole country and living in it is becoming a bit of a farce, nothing but increased charges, time for us all to take to the streets and protest and never vote for the three main political parties ever again unless we want more of the same taxes. Let the Landlords pay for it in rented accomodations then. Air tax could be next.

MacBoogerBalls

ninja900 wrote: »

And when evasion is made very difficult then it'll no longer be 'short'.
That's no reason for the fee charged to go up - quite the opposite in fact.

Well the Depart of Social Welfare will no longer be paying for the 0.4m homes currently receiving the free licence, so shortfall will have to be made up.

This whole thing stinks!

Thats inspectors out of a job. How much does it cost to broadcast to the public anyway. Webcam and youtube account BOOM!

hfallada

An post gets a huge amount of collecting the tv Licence. I think they get €30 for €160 someone pays for the tv licence

OU812

It should be added to the electricity bill spread out over the year.

formerly scottish paddy

In response to this charge when it is introduced RTÉ should in fairness make Radio 1 ad free. We would then at least be paying towards one national service with no advertising.

Peter Rhea

hfallada wrote: »

An post gets a huge amount of collecting the tv Licence. I think they get €30 for €160 someone pays for the tv licence

You think? You should know before you post something like that, preferably have a link to back it up.

The Cush

hfallada wrote: »

An post gets a huge amount of collecting the tv Licence. I think they get €30 for €160 someone pays for the tv licence

TV Licence collection fee 2012 - €12,457 million
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012091800105?opendocument#WREEE03050

Peter Rhea

The Cush wrote: »

TV Licence collection fee 2012 - €12,457 million

12 million, 457 thousand Euros? (€12,457,000)

The Cush

Peter Rhea wrote: »

(€12,457,000)

That's correct, should've used a point instead of a comma - €12.457 million

new fang

icdg wrote: »

But on the other hand I can see the government's argument too, that RTÉ & TG4 are now consumed by people through methods other than television.

what about people who don't consume them at all?

FREETV

new fang wrote: »

what about people who don't consume them at all?

The tyrannical dictatorship that is a supposed democracy of which there is no such thing is going to force the public against their will again with another tax, TV Tax, they should call it.
We will just lie back like fluoridated zombies and do nothing about it and take another hit! :rolleyes: :pac:

icdg

new fang wrote: »

what about people who don't consume them at all?

There's very few people who consume no RTÉ. There are people that claim they don't, but when you probe further, they usually have. Maybe they've listened to 2FM or Lyric FM at some stage and don't readily associate them with RTÉ. Or watched a Republic of Ireland football or Ireland rugby match on RTE. Or tuned into RTÉ for a major Irish breaking news event.

RTÉ will never be got rid of, or at least while television and radio remain in existence. Politicians would have to vote for it, and nobody else (other than TG4 using RTÉ resources) usually covers election results live on TV (last general election was the first time TV3 did any more than an extended bulletin and even then their coverage was nothing on RTÉ). If there was no RTÉ there'd be no politicians on Irish TV in the English language between 6:00pm (before most people have come home from work) and 11:00pm (after most people have gone to bed) every night, and that's something they are not going to vote for.

FREETV

icdg wrote: »

There's very few people who consume no RTÉ. There are people that claim they don't, but when you probe further, they usually have. Maybe they've listened to 2FM or Lyric FM at some stage and don't readily associate them with RTÉ. Or watched a Republic of Ireland football or Ireland rugby match on RTE. Or tuned into RTÉ for a major Irish breaking news event.

RTÉ will never be got rid of, or at least while television and radio remain in existence. Politicians would have to vote for it, and nobody else (other than TG4 using RTÉ resources) usually covers election results live on TV (last general election was the first time TV3 did any more than an extended bulletin and even then their coverage was nothing on RTÉ). If there was no RTÉ there'd be no politicians on Irish TV in the English language between 6:00pm (before most people have come home from work) and 11:00pm (after most people have gone to bed) every night, and that's something they are not going to vote for.

At least in a true Democracy the public would have a vote on such issues but we don't. We are forced to pay for TV whether we consume it like it or not.
Even people with no interest in sports will watch Internationals out of sheer national pride.

Peter Rhea

FREETV wrote: »

TV Tax, they should call it.

It always was a tax, there was no reason ever to licence receiving equipment.

All tv has to be paid for & at least we know where RTE's funding is coming from & who's interests they are supposed to be acting in.

FREETV

Peter Rhea wrote: »

It always was a tax, there was no reason ever to licence receiving equipment.

All tv has to be paid for & at least we know where RTE's funding is coming from & who's interests they are supposed to be acting in.

I find RTE to be progressively poorer in the last twelve months, lots of low common denominator reality rubbish, cookery programmes, old re runs. That is not what I would call proper television, getting closer to the rubbish on the other network based in Parkwest.

Sam Russell

FREETV wrote: »

I find RTE to be progressively poorer in the last twelve months, lots of low common denominator reality rubbish, cookery programmes, old re runs. That is not what I would call proper television, getting closer to the rubbish on the other network based in Parkwest.

Quite so. The same is true of the BBC. TV quality is suffering as quantity increases. Cooking, property, talent(less) shows, quiz shows. [They even have one called 'Pointless' - how apt!]. ITV has always been a lower common denominator chanel while Ch4 aims to shock with their run of programmes like 'Embarrassing rudey bits' and the like. Ch5 is so bad I cannot comment on it.

However, that is what you get in a recession, or austerity as it is now called.

By the way, I thought TV3 were playing repeats of Vincent Brown until I realised he always bangs on about the same stuff in the same way with the same guests.

Oh for the golden days of 'Monty Python', 'Some mother do 'ave 'em', 'The Likely Lads' and 'Whatever happened to the likely lads' and even 'Steptoe and Son'. I an sure there are loads more.

Even 'Dad's Army' was better than the current s***. The only reason they took that off was that the actors were had got too old to carry on.

Hotblack Desiato

It is rather ironic to have posters giving out about RTE/the TV licence, and at the same time slating TV3. I'm no fan of RTE by any means, but if there was no TV licence you would have TV1, TV2, TV3, three times the wall to wall rubbish. Using other taxes the government might be able to keep TG4 going as a public broadcaster, even if most of the public wouldn't have a clue without the subtitles.

In the meantime, thank goodness we are in the Astra 28.2 footprint, and thank goodness for BBC4. They could shut every other UK TV channel down as far as I'm concerned. It's all very well having Ch4, More4, 4Seven, etc, but when was the last time anything worth watching was on any of them - I can't remember. For a long time Channel 4 was thought provoking TV now it's just mostly vomit provoking.

Sam Russell

If the BBC carried advertising, would it improve or disimprove? Does having advertisers cause a channel to change its focus?

RTE always had advertisers and it certainly affected the programme content. They carried sponsored programmes on the radio for years that allowed the afternoon shutdown to be replaced by them so that was good (perhaps). For TV3, the content usually is the advertisement as product placement takes on a more basic meaning for them.

Currently, there is a heavy emphasis on web content that appears to me to be directing viewers/listeners to the broadcasters website where they are forced to be exposed to web advertisers. Maybe I'm wrong.

Last night, I heard Vincent Brown complaining about the deficit at RTE being 'State Aid' but no mention of TV3's parked €80 million loan held by NAMA at 0% interest. Maybe he has not heard about it, or perhaps he is selective in his approach to such things.

watty

Advertising makes TV rubbish. The TV channel then only exists to deliver Adverts.

There should be NO advertising on RTE Radio.

josip

I must be thick. We currently pay €160 for a TV license with a 15% evasion rate. 400,000 households get a free license and will also be exempted from the broadcasting charge. The broadcasting charge will have a lower evasion rate. Why will the broadcasting charge be €20 more expensive? I must be thick.

Sam Russell

josip wrote: »

I must be thick. We currently pay €160 for a TV license with a 15% evasion rate. 400,000 households get a free license and will also be exempted from the broadcasting charge. The broadcasting charge will have a lower evasion rate. Why will the broadcasting charge be €20 more expensive? I must be thick.

A charge of €14 added to the ESB Networks bill for each connection charged each month would pay for it with no cost of collection. No evasion, no collection fee. You don't pay, you sit in the dark with a blank screen.

cros13

Sam Russell wrote: »

A charge of €14 added to the ESB Networks bill for each connection charged each month would pay for it with no cost of collection. No evasion, no collection fee. You don't pay, you sit in the dark with a blank screen.

So you want to charge me for a television I don't own just because I use electricity. You also want to charge me at more than one property where I also don't have a television?

And you consider that fair?

The reality is it's the 21st century... I've never owned a TV. The only people I know with a TV are my elderly parents. A straw poll in my office failed to turn up someone with a TV.

I have zero problem with a small amount of the fortune I pay in Income Tax going to fund TG4 or domestic film/tv production. But I object to funding a largely private TV station.

I already get harassed several times a year by TV license inspectors who want to enter my home to inspect my non-existent TV (I am now refusing, they can f*** off and come back with a garda and a court order.)

I'm wondering at this point if they do file a court case against me can I claim the 4-5 years worth of license fees in lost wages a nuisance court appearance would cost me.

I strongly suspect that most of that "15% evasion rate" is people who don't owe the license fee in the first place.

BTW, on the other devices argument... I also don't listen to any Irish radio stations, visit RTE.ie or use/view any of the output of RTE in any way. So why am I going to be charged for this again?