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SYRIA WAR MEGATHREAD - Mod Note First Post

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Comments

  • #272
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Liamario wrote: »
    I would have said that they should be left to their own devices until the gas attack and seeing the bodies of small children lined up and lifeless.

    They went too far and now there needs to be some form of intervention. The attitude that it's none of our business only goes so far. This is a very small planet and at some point, we have to take responsibility for the welfare of others where that can't take responsibility themselves.

    The problem is the same old problem. To what ends? To what results? With what outcomes?

    They aren't doing anything because they don't know what to do. Right now its just kinda sorta evidence, they can't confirm who used the weapons.

    What's the west going to do, just drop a few bombs and hope for the best?

    We know how that works out.


  • #273
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Well looks like the Brits are almost down and out- big split between Tories and Labour over this

    Big split between the Tories and Labour with 89% of people polled against an attack on Syria. It would be political suicide for Cameron to launch on Syria I think.


  • #274
    smurfjed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,648 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    The west should stay out of it, let the Arab League sort it out.


  • #275
    Killer Wench
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    Oh wow. A naval battle. I didn't think it would happen in today's modern warfare.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20130829-france-russia-warships-mediterranean-syria?ns_campaign=editorial&ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=reseaux_sociaux&ns_fee=0&ns_linkname=20130829_france_russia_warships_mediterranean_syria


  • #276
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,604 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    i think the british and us intelligence community will save the day for Cameron with their pronouncement that Assad's regime was "highly likely" to be responsible- or with words to that effect. i doubt russia will do anything in the event of a military attack, moving naval fleet to the med is posturing, they'll issue strong condemnation, and perhaps up the ante/hostility with America by forging closer links with countries America doesn't like and withdrawing co-operation with america on a host of other issues. i'd be more worry about what the iranians do. it maybe that ucdvet and other may begin to care if their pockets get considerably lighter at the petrol pumps as a consequences of military strikes by America and her allies.


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  • #277
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Well the BBC are definitely backing intervention :eek:

    Anyone watching the news atm? They showed pictures of victims of the chemical attack and said "this puts beyond doubt that the government is targeting its own civilians"

    I guess a lack of impartiality is nothing new for them anyway...


  • #278
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,040 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The Commons just voted it down the motion.


  • #279
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    Thats a pretty sensational vote. It's difficult for Cameron now


  • #280
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    That's unexpected that the Tories didn't back Cameron

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #281
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Well the BBC are definitely backing intervention :eek:

    Anyone watching the news atm? They showed pictures of victims of the chemical attack and said "this puts beyond doubt that the government is targeting its own civilians"

    I guess a lack of impartiality is nothing new for them anyway...


    if anyone remembers the BBC's reportage during the Troubles, you will know their track record for wiping their feet in the truth when it suits them.


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  • #282
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Bbc are a disgrace for the western propaganda.

    Does this vote now mean that Britain cant use military force? Great result if true finally people are seeing war doesnt work.


  • #283
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Bbc are a disgrace for the western propaganda.

    Does this vote now mean that Britain cant use military force? Great result if true finally people are seeing war doesnt work.

    Cameron could overrule Parliament and use a Royal Prerogative to take Military Action - he said he won't do that though

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #284
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Cameron could overrule Parliament and use a Royal Prerogative to take Military Action - he said he won't do that though

    What would the repercussions of such a move? Surely he would be ousted for going against parliament no? Delighted the majority are against the motion great resukt.


  • #285
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,040 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I doubt this puts military intervention off the table permanently.


  • #286
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    awec wrote: »
    I doubt this puts military intervention off the table permanently.

    Would there not be public uproar if he went against parliament and the majority of the public? Only 11% of the public are in favour of military action. Thats a staggering amount against intervention.


  • #287
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,040 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Would there not be public uproar if he went against parliament and the majority of the public? Only 11% of the public are in favour of military action. Thats a staggering amount against intervention.

    The outcome of the UN investigation or whatever it is will have an impact on what happens.


  • #288
    willmunny1990
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭willmunny1990


    Wonder how Obama will react to this.

    U.S were always going to lead the way anyway so I wonder will they go ahead regardless.


  • #289
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    awec wrote: »
    The outcome of the UN investigation or whatever it is will have an impact on what happens.

    But there only there to find out whether chemicals weapons where used or not, I dont think they are there to point the finger at who used them?? Personally I dont think the government would be that stupid to gas there own people.


  • #290
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Apparently Obama is about to brief congress on the US intelligence report. Presumably there could be some activity at some point after this. Looks like it is going to be the US out on their own on this one though.


  • #291
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Why cant they just go in under the UN flag and take all the chemical weapons off the Assad regime? Have the U.S not learned from past mistakes, that war just does not work. Look at the state Iraq is in for goodness sake.


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  • #292
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    willmunny1990 wrote: »
    Wonder how Obama will react to this.

    They won't care.

    The US painted a line in the ground and it has been crossed. Even if they don't want to get involved they have to now or the Godfather loses face among his lieutenants and his rivals and enemies will be emboldened.


  • #293
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Why cant they just go in under the UN flag and take all the chemical weapons off the Assad regime? Have the U.S not learned from past mistakes, that war just does not work. Look at the state Iraq is in for goodness sake.

    How can they go in under the UN flag when the UN wouldn't support an invasion?


  • #294
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    willmunny1990 wrote: »
    Wonder how Obama will react to this.

    U.S were always going to lead the way anyway so I wonder will they go ahead regardless.

    He is talking about firing shots across Assads bow.
    If the US gets involved the whole area will dissolve into anarchy and pull Iran into the fray.
    God help us all.


  • #295
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Why cant they just go in under the UN flag and take all the chemical weapons off the Assad regime? Have the U.S not learned from past mistakes, that war just does not work. Look at the state Iraq is in for goodness sake.

    They can only do that if the UN Security Council votes in favour of it. So far Russia have vetoed any motion that so much as criticises Assad.


  • #296
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/joe-bidens-case-that-waging-war-without-congress-is-an-impeachable-offense/279160/

    Joe Biden (2007): "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."


  • #297
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    In cases like this and other sectarian strife zones, the solution is to shoot 'em all and let God sort them out.




    Or you know, not entirely the trust the lads who lied to us about the last one.


  • #298
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    Article in the Washington post stating that Iran and Syria more than capable of starting a cyber war.

    We do not know the half of it.


  • #299
    seanie_c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭seanie_c


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    But there only there to find out whether chemicals weapons where used or not, I dont think they are there to point the finger at who used them?? Personally I dont think the government would be that stupid to gas there own people.

    Nor do I but there's a staggering amount of stupid people that think he would invite UN inspectors into the country and on the day they arrive, launch a chemical attack 15 km from where the inspectors are staying.

    People actually believe that . . .they really do.

    And I'll bet these same idiots think there are WMD in Iraq or maybe Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist.


  • #300
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    This is so funny, I mean David Cameron and William Hague played their war drum beats and now had their drum sticks broken.
    They should just resign.


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  • #301
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    seanie_c wrote: »
    Nor do I but there's a staggering amount of stupid people that think he would invite UN inspectors into the country and on the day they arrive, launch a chemical attack 15 km from where the inspectors are staying.

    People actually believe that . . .they really do.

    And I'll bet these same idiots think there are WMD in Iraq or maybe Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist.

    There brainwashed with all the propaganda there fed from fox news and the bbc. Idiots.


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