SYRIA WAR MEGATHREAD - Mod Note First Post

crockholm

I'm with Pat Buchannan on this.

Karl Stein

mrsoundie wrote: »

Hezbollah did give the Israelis a bloody nose the two last time they tangled and they have made it quite clear what would happen if there was any strikes on Iran.

That proxy war just showed the Americans what would likely happen if they attempted to try a bit of regime change by force in Iran (a la Iraq 2003).

They could wreck the place from the air but would meet fierce resistance on the ground and the regime would be left largely intact. Much the same will happen with Syria imo.

mrsoundie

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

That proxy war just showed the Americans what would likely happen if they attempted to try a bit of regime change by force in Iran (a la Iraq 2003).

They could wreck the place from the air but would meet fierce resistance on the ground and the regime would be left largely intact. Much the same will happen with Syria imo.

Exactly, nothing would change, except that America would be in more debt to China, figures of $1 Billion a month to police a no-fly zone. Ouch.

Unconfirmed reports that Egypt has prevebted some US warships from entering the Suez canal. (no link as untrusted)
Could make things even more interesting if true.

Judgement Day

Deleted User wrote: »

Unconfirmed reports that Egypt has prevebted some US warships from entering the Suez canal. (no link as untrusted)
Could make things even more interesting if true.

Sounds unlikely that US warships would enter the canal anyway - it's not the 19th century anymore and the they have battle groups in both the Med and Gulf. I haven't voted in the poll as it really is such an intractable mess - I knew somewhere in the back of my mind that the French had a long involvement in Syria and if anyone's confused they should take a look at this BBC Timeline of events before rushing to judgement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14703995

One thing for sure is that if the Syrian Government are behind the gas attacks they have to be severely punished - for all our sakes - otherwise we're likely to see Iran, China or North Korea chance their arms in their respective empire building.

I'd like to wait for the UN report before laying any blame, but regardless of the outcome, western involvement should be avoided at all costs.

This conflict is showing all the hallmarks of another proxy war between the west (US) & Russia (post USSR) with one side supporting the Suni muslims & the other the Shiite muslims.

But this time the risks are higher if it expands into Saudi Arabia & other oil exporting countries, bad news if your lifestyle depends on oil (all of us)

mrsoundie

So now the British Government has pulled back and are waiting for the UN Inspectors report before going ahead with the Military strikes.

Bit of a turnaround.

brimal

mrsoundie wrote: »

Israel is watching the north of their country all the time, Hezbollah is a good acquaintance of Irans I do believe.

Hezbollah did give the Israelis a bloody nose the two last time they tangled and they have made it quite clear what would happen if there was any strikes on Iran.

Analysts over here are definitely more worried about an attack from Hezbollah than an attack from Syria.

All this talk of Syria retaliating against the US strikes by attacking Israel.. I doubt they would be that stupid to bring Israel directly into it. Israel has already bombed Syria three times this year with relative ease, it would be suicide for the Assad regime.

mrsoundie

mrsoundie wrote: »

So now the British Government has pulled back and are waiting for the UN Inspectors report before going ahead with the Military strikes.

Bit of a turnaround.

Good! Don't want to jump in and find you've jumped the gun so to speak.
There's every possibility that the chemicals were in the possession of the rebels and got hit by a government missile and dispersed in the neighbourhood.

EyeSight

what i don't get is that the same people criticizing the west for not intervening yet, are the same oafs who criticized them for not intervening in Libya, before accusing them of attacking the place for no good reason or oil once Gadaffi died; "there was no uprising, the media made it up".
You cannot win....

I think the UN report needs to come back first

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23875121
US President Barack Obama says the US has concluded that the Syrian government carried out a chemical weapons attacks near Damascus.

He said the use of chemical weapons affected US national interests and sending a "shot across the bows" could have a positive impact on Syria's war.

He sounds like he wants to jump the gun!

Eight Ball

I don't see any way back for Assad now. It looks like this will eventually end one of two ways for him and his crew. Either he flees to Russia to see out his days or ends up being dragged through the streets Gaddafi style.

zom

donegal_road wrote: »

On that point, over a year ago, Turkey and India started to barter gold for oil with Iran Link to story

If this practice was allowed to take, the American dollar would be doomed.

Imagine you have money printer at home - every time you need to go to town and buy some food/booz/stuff you first go to printer, print some notes and then go to shop. And one day your favorite shop (one of the biggest) tells you they don't accept your money and ask for gold? HOW DARE THEY!!

donegal_road

zom wrote: »

Imagine you have money printer at home - every time you need to go to town and buy some food/booz/stuff you first go to printer, print some notes and then go to shop. And one day your favorite shop (one of the biggest) tells you they don't accept your money and ask for gold? HOW DARE THEY!!

Zom, I feel a bit reluctant to reply to this as its your 666th post, if I disappear from boards you know what happened!

When the US issued sanctions against Iran, that meant Iran wasn't allowed to use the SWIFT system for trading their oil. To bypass this, Iran has engaged in bartering their oil for commodities ie. gold, between other countries. In doing so, they have negated the use of the American Dollar which is the default currency by which commodities can be traded.

America have spent decades establishing the Dollar as the standard currency by which oil can be traded. Iraq threatened to drop the Dollar in favour of the Euro in 2000, Libya planned to create an African Dollar based on the gold bullion they had in their treasury

Is this what you mean?








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MonaPizza

I Heart Internet wrote: »

It's a tragedy.

What do you propose we do to stop the slaughter OP? (Genuine question)

The US and Western Powers have been trying to destroy the Assad regime since 2007. They don't care how it's done. They conduct raids, assassinations, bombings and killings inside Syria on a frequent basis. The "rebels" who are fighting the Assad regime are psychopathic killers on the CIA payroll and are loathed by the people of Syria. The chemical attack that you are reading about was stage-managed and executed by western proxy forces. Why do you think that the US won't allow weapons inspectors to determine WHO used chemical weapons only that chemical weapons WERE used?

Expect to see more nauseating photos and film of civilian casualties in the coming days and weeks and expect it all to be blamed on Assad. Expect to hear politicians bleat that they have "irrefutable" evidence that Assad is using WMDs on his own people even though they won't be able to supply a shred of evidence. Expect fabricated or photoshopped satellite images of mobile sarin labs and trucks and crap like that. Much like those Iraqi mobile WMDs "lab" that were actually units from which weather balloons are launched from.
Expect all that crap to slowly chip away at public resistance and trepidation until they just launch another genocidal war. Nevermind that hospitals will be pulverised. Nevermind that children will be blown sideways out of the kitchen at breakfast time.
The longterm plan is to wreck the Arab and Muslim world from Libya through Iraq and Iran to Afghanistan, completely control it and ensure that there is a ring of steel around China and that their access to energy supplies is cut off if need be.

MonaPizza

Yahir Shaggy Peg wrote: »

I suspect some of people are tired of war in the middle east and Persia.

Some care when its on TV and thrust into their living rooms but forget about it two minutes later ~ same happened during the war in this country.

And a lot are on the 'anti everything USA & Israe bandwagonl, they're blinded by their hatred of these two countries and can't see past that.

And sadly this covers almost everyone from all groups;

When Christian kills and Arab its a crusade.
When a Jew kills and Arab is a massacre.
But when an Arab kills an Arab no one gives a sh*t.

But Yahir Shaggy Peg, it IS a plan by Western powers to destroy the entire area. Unless you are completely blind then you would be able to see that. This isn't an anti-west rant. When WW1 ended and Turkey were defeated, they were forced out of the area and the British and French moved in and carved it all up for themselves...Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, etc. After WW2 local nationalism meant that these states wanted independence and got it but because of their mixed ethnicities thanks to the retarded British/French plan of just drawing lines across a map splitting friendly tribes up and cobbling hostile tribes together in the same jurisdiction, sectarian strife was always just under the surface. Nevermind that the place was floating on a sea of oil, those ethnic tensions were actually a bonus to any foreign power who wanted to divide and conquer the place in the future.
In 1953 the CIA overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran and installed a brutal, thuggish dictator. The reason? Mossadegh (the democratically elected guy) had the temerity to kick out foreign oil companies who were bleeding his country dry and he nationalised the Iranian oil industry spending the revenues on his people. The Iranians didn't forget this even if most westerners have. In 1979 the Shah was finally toppled in Iran and once again Iranian oil was used to help Iranian people. Strangely since then Iran is now an enemy of the west. The west were helping Iran under the Shah to develop nuclear power (provided he continued too allow them to fleece Iranian oil) but once the Iranians now try to develop nuclear power they are accused of trying to build a bomb. If you just paused for a moment to try and digest the lies and hypocrisy of the Western governments and oil corporations your head would explode.
Since 1979 Syria has proven to be a natural ally of Iran in the face of constant external threats to once again smash Iran and grab her oil. The thinking therefore is "destroy Syria and Iran is all alone, there for the taking"

So please don't call me anti-American for simply pointing out the dirty game these fcukers and the UK/France have been playing since World War 1 yet all the while trying to tell you they are attacking these countries to "protect the people there", to "prevent a massive muslim invasion of the West" or to "protect vital interests" (Western control of oil fields).

The American and Nato agenda IS the problem. Their M.O. is to conquer the region's resources, plain and simple and has been for a century. It's not a secret, they just don't come right out and admit it.

Clandestine

old_aussie

The US, Russia, China, GB, France and other UN countries should not supply any arms at all to any of the parties involved in syria.

They should all stay out, and let the middle east countries sort it out.

Both sides, basically sunni and shiite are prepared to wipe each other out, and till they can progress past that mentality, then there's not much the UN or others can do.

jank

MonaPizza wrote: »

But Makikomi, it IS a plan by Western powers to destroy the entire area. .

What do the West get out of it by 'destroying' the Middle East? It looks as if the people who live in Middle East are quite capable of doing that themsleves by the looks of it.

Also, the 'Its all about Oil' is massively overblown in my opinion. Within the next few years, the US will be a net EXPORTER of energy, so why do they need to grab Iranian oil? Just for the sake of it cause they can?

MonaPizza wrote: »

So please don't call me anti-American for simply pointing out the dirty game these fcukers and the UK/France have been playing since World War 1 yet all the while trying to tell you they are attacking these countries to "protect the people there", to "prevent a massive muslim invasion of the West" or to "protect vital interests" (Western control of oil fields)..

Yes, and the place was paradise until those pesky Westerns entered the picture. You do know that the Ottoman Empire ruled this area for close to 400 years, so why not apportion any blame to them? Nobody is doubting or denying that the West have not fiddled with the Middle East but to blame them entirely for all that is wrong with the region is the usual anti-western hysteria who cant look at the problem in its whole. The West has fiddled in Europe, South America and Asia as well in the past 100 years but you don't see the level of violence in those regions as you do in the Middle East. There is something fundamentally wrong with the place and it would all kick off regardless if the West were involved or not in my opinion.

MonaPizza wrote: »

The American and Nato agenda IS the problem. Their M.O. is to conquer the region's resources, plain and simple and has been for a century. It's not a secret, they just don't come right out and admit it.

Ah yes, blame the West for all that is wrong with the middle east. Suits your ideaology I suppose. Apportion no blame at all to Russia or China who have a strategic interest in the region or even the people who live in the region themselves. The idea that the Middle East was grand before the west got involved is ludicrous.

MadsL

What ever happens could we have the French in first. For once. They also did a good job in Mali.

jank

As if on que the Irish Anti war movement are mobilisng forces.

http://irishantiwar.org/node/2063

It seems very likely that the US, backed by UK,France etc, is going to attack Syria very soon.

Regardless of what we think of the Assad regime and its crimes we should oppose this intervention which will only make matters worse and is only designed to further imperialist interests.

As we don’t know exactly when this will occur the Irish Anti-War Movement is calling a protest at the Spire for 6pm ON THE DAY OF THE ATTACK or THE NEXT DAY IF THE ATTACK IS AT NIGHT.

We will update this even with the definite day once we know more....

Please support this protest and spread the word. Invite your friends

I find it ironic that they give the Russians a pass and shockingly give Assad a pass. " He's a bad guy but.. meh" Have they EVER had a protest about Russian intervention in Syria or Assads/Al Queda crimes? Nope!

Also the fact that there wasn’t a byte or fart from them about the chemical attacks themselves but as soon as there is talk of Western military strikes.... LETS ORGANISE A PROTEST!!! Boo USA/UK/Israel/Capitalism..!!

They don’t give a **** about the average Arab who is caught in this civil war.

For the record I am against Western Military intervention in this region at this juncture but you wouldn't catch me dead protesting with these smug hypocritical fools.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

........... The West has fiddled in Europe, South America and Asia as well in the past 100 years but you don't see the level of violence in those regions as you do in the Middle East..

Other than the hundreds of thousands of dead in Latin America, the 100,000 dead in East Timor, the 800,000 plus dead in Indonesia, the millions dead in Vietnam, laos and Cambodia.......

mrsoundie

The whole region is both divided and decisive for nearly any country in the world getting involved or individual for that matter.

Robert Fisk has written a great book which goes some way to explaining it (here).

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Unconfirmed reports that Egypt has prevebted some US warships from entering the Suez canal. (no link as untrusted)
Could make things even more interesting if true.

Canal full of ships this morning, but it was empty yesterday. Probably nothing unusual.

http://marinetraffic.com/ais/

Jonny7

MonaPizza wrote: »

The US and Western Powers have been trying to destroy the Assad regime since 2007.

It was quite the opposite, relations actually warmed, Sarkozy met Assad in Paris in 2008, Kerry and his wife was having dinner with the Assads in 2009

They don't care how it's done. They conduct raids, assassinations, bombings and killings inside Syria on a frequent basis.

Apart from the Israeli raid on the reactor, and the odd attack attributed to Islamist extremists, even the Syrian government would probably argue with you on that one

The "rebels" who are fighting the Assad regime are psychopathic killers on the CIA payroll and are loathed by the people of Syria.

And one of them was sent back in time to kill the leader of the resistance

The chemical attack that you are reading about was stage-managed and executed by western proxy forces.

Not sure about that yet, there was an email, but that has been shown to be a fake

Why do you think that the US won't allow weapons inspectors to determine WHO used chemical weapons only that chemical weapons WERE used?

How would they determine who used it? both sides will just deny.

Expect to see more nauseating photos and film of civilian casualties in the coming days and weeks and expect it all to be blamed on Assad.

There have been atrocities on both sides, however most agree the burden of blame for this violence and also the bulk of imprisonment, torture, human rights violations and large number of deaths belong to government, government forces and militias

Expect to hear politicians bleat that they have "irrefutable" evidence that Assad is using WMDs on his own people even though they won't be able to supply a shred of evidence. Expect fabricated or photoshopped satellite images of mobile sarin labs and trucks and crap like that. Much like those Iraqi mobile WMDs "lab" that were actually units from which weather balloons are launched from.

We shall see, I doubt they are keen to repeat Iraq and Mr Powell's presentation

Expect all that crap to slowly chip away at public resistance and trepidation until they just launch another genocidal war. Nevermind that hospitals will be pulverised. Nevermind that children will be blown sideways out of the kitchen at breakfast time.
The longterm plan is to wreck the Arab and Muslim world from Libya through Iraq and Iran to Afghanistan, completely control it and ensure that there is a ring of steel around China and that their access to energy supplies is cut off if need be.

Quick we must warn the 22 nation Arab League who are unwittingly supporting the US!

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Other than the hundreds of thousands of dead in Latin America, the 100,000 dead in East Timor, the 800,000 plus dead in Indonesia, the millions dead in Vietnam, laos and Cambodia.......

Yes, I said the West HAVE been involved in these regions.... but you will find that these regions are largely peaceful today, never mind that your numbers are overinflated.

clairefontaine

I think this may be the first time a Nobel Peace Prize winner has sent in war ships.

clairefontaine

Nodin wrote: »

Other than the hundreds of thousands of dead in Latin America, the 100,000 dead in East Timor, the 800,000 plus dead in Indonesia, the millions dead in Vietnam, laos and Cambodia.......

Your numbers are a little out there.

Eight Ball

MonaPizza wrote: »

The US and Western Powers have been trying to destroy the Assad regime since 2007. They don't care how it's done. They conduct raids, assassinations, bombings and killings inside Syria on a frequent basis. The "rebels" who are fighting the Assad regime are psychopathic killers on the CIA payroll and are loathed by the people of Syria. The chemical attack that you are reading about was stage-managed and executed by western proxy forces. Why do you think that the US won't allow weapons inspectors to determine WHO used chemical weapons only that chemical weapons WERE used?

Expect to see more nauseating photos and film of civilian casualties in the coming days and weeks and expect it all to be blamed on Assad. Expect to hear politicians bleat that they have "irrefutable" evidence that Assad is using WMDs on his own people even though they won't be able to supply a shred of evidence. Expect fabricated or photoshopped satellite images of mobile sarin labs and trucks and crap like that. Much like those Iraqi mobile WMDs "lab" that were actually units from which weather balloons are launched from.
Expect all that crap to slowly chip away at public resistance and trepidation until they just launch another genocidal war. Nevermind that hospitals will be pulverised. Nevermind that children will be blown sideways out of the kitchen at breakfast time.
The longterm plan is to wreck the Arab and Muslim world from Libya through Iraq and Iran to Afghanistan, completely control it and ensure that there is a ring of steel around China and that their access to energy supplies is cut off if need be.

Foil hat alert.

Conmaicne Mara

Jonny7 wrote: »

It was quite the opposite, relations actually warmed, Sarkozy met Assad in Paris in 2008, Kerry and his wife was having dinner with the Assads in 2009

I hate it when a thread is spoiled by facts.