SYRIA WAR MEGATHREAD - Mod Note First Post

jank

This is the After Hours Syria war thread. Please use this thread for discussion of events only. Usual AH rules apply you can read the charter here



ORIGINAL THREAD TITLE - Do We Care About Syria

Obviously not as I have heard or seen very on boards or other Irish websites about the chemical attack that has killed over 1,300 people two days ago.
Can we expect the creme de la creme of the Irish anti-war movement to do something about this? Eh.. no they are too busy asking for Bradley Manning to be released.
http://irishantiwar.org/view/events

Howard Juneau

Perhaps type Syria into the boards.ie searchbar & see what threads appear. Everything from pic threads, to discussions on gases used to whether or not it's just a conspiracy. Whatever your viewpoint, there are plenty of threads on it

RachaelVO

I do care but I can't look at the pics, they're heart wrenching!

I Heart Internet

It's a tragedy.

What do you propose we do to stop the slaughter OP? (Genuine question)

Fratton Fred

jank wrote: »

Obviously not as I have heard or seen very on boards or other Irish websites about the chemical attack that has killed over 1,300 people two days ago.
Can we expect the creme de la creme of the Irish anti-war movement to do something about this? Eh.. no they are too busy asking for Bradley Manning to be released.
http://irishantiwar.org/view/events

But they weren't killed in a drone attack, so there's nothing wrong.....right?

pablomakaveli

I care and those pictures are horrifying and heart-breaking to see but in regards to who's responsible for what in Syria i take everything with a pinch of salt now.

Both sides in these conflict have done some terrible things and both are trying their best to paint the other as the bad guy.

Gee Bag

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But they weren't killed in a drone attack, so there's nothing wrong.....right?

Boo hoo! Sniffle....

Why is everyone picking on poor little NATO?

tricky D

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I care and those pictures are horrifying and heart-breaking to see but in regards to who's responsible for what in Syria i take everything with a pinch of salt now.

Both sides in these conflict have done some terrible things and both are trying their best to paint the other as the bad guy.

The propaganda has become deafening and has drowned out decent objective analysis. Bizarrely the upshot, if the propaganda is to be believed and acted on, will be the West getting into bed with those who want to destroy the West, despite previous lessons.

Here's a different take on the recent attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSAMT5Pe15k

SEPT 23 1989

I am sick of the whole middle east

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Obviously not as I have heard or seen very on boards or other Irish websites about the chemical attack that has killed over 1,300 people two days ago.
Can we expect the creme de la creme of the Irish anti-war movement to do something about this? Eh.. no they are too busy asking for Bradley Manning to be released.
http://irishantiwar.org/view/events

...they never mention West Papua either. I guess they're just heartless.

jimgoose

Well I for one think the situation is very serious indeed - of the utmost seriousness, in fact. I vote we send all our highly-skilled and insightful politicians over there right now to give those naughty A-rabs and whatever-the-other-crowd-are-c'mon-the-winner a severe talking-to.

the drifter

No

wes

The thread seems like a thinly veiled attack on certain groups of people, and would wager that the op is more concerned with taking a shot at these people, as opposed to any genuine concern for events in Syria.

If there was genuine concern for event in Syria, then there would be no pot shots taken at other people, who dare to be concerned about other horrible things happening in the world.

I, for one, am appalled by the OPs, complete lack of concern for events between Pakistan and India, in recent days, with tension rising over Kashmir (yet again).......... or maybe the OPs lack of concern for the Rohinga, the Tibetan, and any number of issues that the OP probably hasn't shown sufficient concern about in public......

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKSJc2YFPrs

wendell borton

Hard to know what's going on in syria and the agendas of the combatants, except that civilians are suffering.
The best solution at the moment seems to be a Assad victory, devil you know and all that.

Mr Benevolent

Nope. Next Muslim crisis, please.

Oh wait, I forgot about Egypt. Looks like we're all stocked up with militant religious crazies for now.

Wabbit Ears

There is nothing at all I can do or care enough to bother doing about what happening in Syria so I just filter it out and carry on with my first world life and first world problems

pablomakaveli

tricky D wrote: »

The propaganda has become deafening and has drowned out decent objective analysis. Bizarrely the upshot, if the propaganda is to be believed and acted on, will be the West getting into bed with those who want to destroy the West, despite previous lessons.

Well so far the various stories i've read regarding this attack are that al-assads forces carried out the attack, that it was a false flag attack by rebels, that rebels have been hiding out in civilian areas using the civilians as human shields and so on.

It's because of all this uncertainty that i can't see any foregin military intervention because the rebels seem as dubious as al-assads forces and countries are getting increasingly reluctant to get involved with the rebels.

I'd hope we'll see a neutral UN force sent in to try and protect the civilians from both sides of the conflict but i can see Russia vetoing that on the security council.

arybvtcw0eolkf

jank wrote: »

Obviously not as I have heard or seen very on boards or other Irish websites about the chemical attack that has killed over 1,300 people two days ago.
Can we expect the creme de la creme of the Irish anti-war movement to do something about this? Eh.. no they are too busy asking for Bradley Manning to be released.
http://irishantiwar.org/view/events

I suspect some of people are tired of war in the middle east and Persia.

Some care when its on TV and thrust into their living rooms but forget about it two minutes later ~ same happened during the war in this country.

And a lot are on the 'anti everything USA & Israe bandwagonl, they're blinded by their hatred of these two countries and can't see past that.

And sadly this covers almost everyone from all groups;

When Christian kills and Arab its a crusade.
When a Jew kills and Arab is a massacre.
But when an Arab kills an Arab no one gives a sh*t.

Seaneh

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But they weren't killed in a drone attack, so there's nothing wrong.....right?

No they were killed by a home made rocket filled with what appears to have been industrial chemicals fired from inside a rebel held area.

But despite the fact that it was a home made rocket, didn't use mustard or nerve gas and didn't come from an Assad held area you have all the usual hawks and media sources foaming at the mouth calling for military intervention from the west.


All of the evidence here points to the rebels attacking a rebel held residential area to try and blame Assad and pull in the west because they are losing more and more support and more and more of the country every week.

Toby Take a Bow

Yahir Shaggy Peg wrote: »

I suspect some of people are tired of war in the middle east and Persia.

As someone else stated, there have been plenty of threads on it, the OP seems to just be making a point that occasionally comes out regarding a supposed lefty bias in favour of the Palestinians.

But there is usually more of a reaction when something happens in Israel or America, I grant you that. But I think this is more because we know (or think we know) more about the histories of these countries (and all the divisions etc) than Syria, undergoing a civil war that can't be grasped without knowledge of all the things that have gone on in its recent past (and beyond) and all the associated religious and ethnic divisions.

paddy147

wendell borton wrote: »

Hard to know what's going on in syria and the agendas of the combatants, except that civilians are suffering.
The best solution at the moment seems to be a Assad victory, devil you know and all that.

I can kind of understand that.

Iraq post Saddam ----Fcuked up
Libya post Gaddafi

---

Fcuked ip
Eygpt post Mubarack---Fcuked up

1ZRed

wes wrote: »

The thread seems like a thinly veiled attack on certain groups of people, and would wager that the op is more concerned with taking a shot at these people, as opposed to any genuine concern for events in Syria.

If there was genuine concern for event in Syria, then there would be no pot shots taken at other people, who dare to be concerned about other horrible things happening in the world.

I, for one, am appalled by the OPs, complete lack of concern for events between Pakistan and India, in recent days, with tension rising over Kashmir (yet again).......... or maybe the OPs lack of concern for the Rohinga, the Tibetan, and any number of issues that the OP probably hasn't shown sufficient concern about in public......

Are they still fighting over jumpers?

Cody Pomeray

jank wrote: »

Obviously not as I have heard or seen very on boards or other Irish websites about the chemical attack that has killed over 1,300 people two days ago.
Can we expect the creme de la creme of the Irish anti-war movement to do something about this? Eh.. no they are too busy asking for Bradley Manning to be released.
http://irishantiwar.org/view/events

Are you seriously using the chemical weapons attack as a tactic in what seems to be your own personal issue with the anti-war movement? The last time i saw your name you were trawling the socialist party's website or something for the same kind of thing, to use it against Richard Boyd Barrett. Bit warped isn't it.

Jonny7

Seaneh wrote: »

But despite the fact that it was a home made rocket, didn't use mustard or nerve gas and didn't come from an Assad held area you have all the usual hawks and media sources foaming at the mouth calling for military intervention from the west.

What's the source on this?

wes

1ZRed wrote: »

Are they still fighting over jumpers?

Yes, Pakistan insist they should be green, while India insist on saffron.

Seaneh

Jonny7 wrote: »

What's the source on this?

Watching ITV news today and they had a former military advisor to the bush regime and a chemical weapons expert. both confirmed that the victims didn't look like they'd been killed by nerve gas and the evidence they'd seen of the rocket pointed to a crude home made device.

They also pointed out that if it was a nerve gas attack that medics treating the victims would be dropping like flies by now from exposure to residual gas in the hair and clothes of the victims.

Every source I've read so from weapons experts and chemists have said that the gas or gasses used were more than likely industrial and not nerve agents.

Seaneh

There is also this NYTimes article stating there is no evidence of a chemical attack.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all

jam_mac_jam

Seaneh wrote: »

There is also this NYTimes article stating there is no evidence of a chemical attack.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all

Did you read it or just the headline, as that's not really what it says...

DarkJager

Seaneh wrote: »

Watching ITV news today and they had a former military advisor to the bush regime and a chemical weapons expert. both confirmed that the victims didn't look like they'd been killed by nerve gas and the evidence they'd seen of the rocket pointed to a crude home made device.

They also pointed out that if it was a nerve gas attack that medics treating the victims would be dropping like flies by now from exposure to residual gas in the hair and clothes of the victims.

Every source I've read so from weapons experts and chemists have said that the gas or gasses used were more than likely industrial and not nerve agents.

They had a chemical weapons expert on Sky News this morning who believes it could have been Sarin gas. He said the reactions in the video (dilated pupils and convulsions) would be symptomatic of this. The device itself would have been planned to only affect a specific area and the gas would disperse quickly afterwards. Suppose nobody will know the truth for some time yet.

Seaneh

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Did you read it or just the headline, as that's not really what it says...

Yes, I read the article, obviously.

kneemos

wendell borton wrote: »

Hard to know what's going on in syria and the agendas of the combatants, except that civilians are suffering.
The best solution at the moment seems to be a Assad victory, devil you know and all that.

The bottom line is civilians are dying whoever's firing the bombs and the nature of the war that is being fought in towns and cities means more civilians will die.
If the west was to join in the war it's hard to know what side would be best to support.
Assad support might not have the publics backing.

Andy-Pandy

Who knows what to believe in this atrocity. I think its odd that on the day that Syria lets in UN chemical inspectors into the country that they would do something like this. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that it could have been done to place blame and pressure on Assad's regime. There is a proxy war going on in Syria (Iran, Hezbollah, Gulf States, The west) and the sad thing is the people dying are mostly innocent. Before this civil war Syria was far from perfect but it was a stable secular state where people of all religions lived safely side by side

Fratton Fred

kneemos wrote: »

The bottom line is civilians are dying whoever's firing the bombs and the nature of the war that is being fought in towns and cities means more civilians will die.
If the west was to join in the war it's hard to know what side would be best to support.
Assad support might not have the publics backing.

That's the entire point really, civilians are being killed and the UN is powerless to protect them.

The US won't upset Russia, NATO is powerless without the US and no one else is capable of doing anything.

NuckingFacker

America states "If we see evidence of chemical weapons being used, we will arm the rebels".
Two weeks later, the top story everywhere is a chemical weapon attack on civilians in Syria... no idea why, but to me it seems a bit convenient. But then I am a suspicious aloyisius.. and then Hague is on the news, with his big, baldy head on him, and you just know there's cnutery afoot..

Karl Stein

It's a civil war - what are we supposed to do? Everyone condemns violence against civilians regardless of what side they're on. If there was an ethnic minority being massacred by the Syrian state then I'm sure there'd be anti-Assad protests.

Also, as pablomakaveli has said, it's difficult to discern what's propaganda and what actually happening on the ground in Syria.

NuckingFacker wrote: »

to me it seems a bit convenient. But then I am a suspicious aloyisius..

Especially since it appears that the Assad regime is winning - why would they risk throwing away any gains by using chemical weapons and risking an overwhelming attack by the US/NATO?

Jonny7

Seaneh wrote: »

Watching ITV news today and they had a former military advisor to the bush regime and a chemical weapons expert. both confirmed that the victims didn't look like they'd been killed by nerve gas and the evidence they'd seen of the rocket pointed to a crude home made device.

I have no idea how you can say with such certainty who fired the missile. Seems to be a lot of the usual partisan views going on with this debate.

Whoever fired it, the result is pretty hideous.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/syria-missiles-similar-chemical-weapons-attack

NoNewFriends

It's an internal Syrian issue. Ireland should stay out of it. We shouldn't squander one cent of tax money on aid to the region and certainly shouldn't send troops there. Let's hope Gilmore doesn't try to play the big man again and embarrass us on the international stage by presenting his own twisted opinions as that of the Irish people. Like the time he said Hezbollah aren't a terrorist group (Rockets were fired into Israel from Lebanon today btw).

AndonHandon

It's quite easy for me to pass judgment and say "oh that's awful" but it is a civil war; both sides believe in what they are fighting for and who am I to express an opinion on the whole thing? It is easy to comment from far away and with such conflicting information being fed to me. As a result I neglect to comment in great detail or from the context of vast knowledge on Syria. I care in so much as my general views in relation to war are under attack;

I feel that chemical weapons are below the morals of war and that civilian deaths are always a tragedy of the highest order. I support the U.N and feel that international intervention is necessary if they feel it is necessary.

Femme_Fatale

wes wrote: »

The thread seems like a thinly veiled attack on certain groups of people, and would wager that the op is more concerned with taking a shot at these people, as opposed to any genuine concern for events in Syria.

If there was genuine concern for event in Syria, then there would be no pot shots taken at other people, who dare to be concerned about other horrible things happening in the world.

Spot-on. And Israel (the state) is supposed to be a democratic, western nation, hence people focusing on its hypocrisy.

I wish people would quit with all the "Nobody gives a sh1t" stuff too. Just because they don't care, doesn't mean they can speak for everyone else.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

...they never mention West Papua either. I guess they're just heartless.

No, just blatent hypocrites. Can we expect a 'peace' flotilla anytime soon on the way to the shores of Syria?

Galloway was forever critising the West while prasing his buddy Assad.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/PA-2515194.jpg

Galloway has for many years carried on close contacts with dictators and extremist elements in the Arab world. In the late 1990s, he was closely linked with Iraqi president Saddam Hussein, the Assad regime in Syria, Hamas in Gaza and the Iranian regime.

In July 2011, at a time when Assad was perpetrating massacres of his own people, Galloway was interviewed on Hezbollah’s al-Manar network, where he heaped praises on the Syrian president. “Bashar Assad wants reform and change, to realize the aspirations of his people,” he said in the interview, which was quoted in the official Syrian news agency Sana. “They are trying to pressure Syria and President Assad because of the good things that he did, such as supporting Palestinian and Lebanese resistance and rejecting to surrender to Israel.”

The biggest causality of the Arab Spring are the left wing anti-war movement. The fact is that crusty left wingers don’t really care about the average oppressed individual who is slaughtered in whatever regime they are ruled under. They much prefer getting up on their high horse in a leafy dublin suburb and feeling superior. God forbid that they actually go into an actual war zone! For years we had to listen to utterly clueless and naive tripe that emendated from that political sphere and media. The emperor has no clothes so to speak. More people are seeing through their nonsense and double speak.

jank

Yahir Shaggy Peg wrote: »

I suspect some of people are tired of war in the middle east and Persia.
....

...
When a Jew kills and Arab is a massacre.
But when an Arab kills an Arab no one gives a sh*t.

Agreed, vast majority of people don't care. Thats the hard truth.
However if USA or Israel are involved then you hear a chorus objections based on the fact that 'war is bad'. Those leading the choir are more interested in attacking America for political reasons rather then those who suffer in armed conflict.

Karl Stein

Galloway exposed as 'mother brain' of swarms of hive mind lefty anti-war liberals.

Incredible detective work, Sir.

jank

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Are you seriously using the chemical weapons attack as a tactic in what seems to be your own personal issue with the anti-war movement? The last time i saw your name you were trawling the socialist party's website or something for the same kind of thing, to use it against Richard Boyd Barrett. Bit warped isn't it.

I am just highlighting the maybe uncomfortable truth that most people don't really care about this attack or other conflicts in the world.

The fact of the matter is that the Irish anti-war movement who claim to be agaisnt all war is in fact not such a movement at all, they are more concerened with NATO, USA and Isreal foregin policy. The evidence in on their website.

Don't you really think its a bit odd that the biggest anti-war movement in the country is being silent on the biggest chemcial attack on humans since Saddam used them aggainst the Kurds, yet instead are organising an event for Bradley/Chelsea Manning and have representivies on radio only yesterday asking for his release. They even took time out to picket the US embassey. Dont you find their use of time/resources a little bit odd?

jank

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Spot-on. And Israel (the state) is supposed to be a democratic, western nation, hence people focusing on its hypocrisy.

It makes no sense to shurg your shoulders if an African dictator launches a war that kills millions but if a western democratic nation intervenes in a conflict to get all uppidy about it. It proves my point that you dont care about the average person being killed, you care more about your political ideaology. Think about that for a few minutes.

clairefontaine

They on,y care when the US or Isreal are involved and they can orgasm sanctimony.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

I am just highlighting the maybe uncomfortable truth that most people don't really care about this attack or other conflicts in the world.

The fact of the matter is that the Irish anti-war movement who claim to be agaisnt all war is in fact not such a movement at all, they are more concerened with NATO, USA and Isreal foregin policy. The evidence in on their website.

Don't you really think its a bit odd that the biggest anti-war movement in the country is being silent on the biggest chemcial attack on humans since Saddam used them aggainst the Kurds, yet instead are organising an event for Bradley/Chelsea Manning and have representivies on radio only yesterday asking for his release. They even took time out to picket the US embassey. Dont you find their use of time/resources a little bit odd?

....yes, well you have them sussed now, don't you.

jank

The entire world has them sussed apart from themselves.

NoNewFriends

Some very good insights and observations from poster jank. Note how those on the left choose to make flippant remarks and shrug their shoulders when confronted with the Irish anti-war movement's silence on the Syrian gas attacks. They still have no explanation for the organisation's selective blindness. It's very suspect that 90% of their time and energy is spent demonising Israel and the USA.

wes

jank wrote: »

No, just blatent hypocrites.

Your thread is blatant hypocrisy. You don't care about Syria, just taking shots at the left. Its pretty disturbing that you care so little for the people in Syria, that you would use there suffering, solely to attack people you disagree with politically.

NoNewFriends

wes wrote: »

Your thread is blatant hypocrisy. You don't care about Syria, just taking shots at the left. Its pretty disturbing that you care so little for the people in Syria, that you would use there suffering, solely to attack people you disagree with politically.

>Presents strawmen
>Uses ad hominems
>Avoids answering simple question

Why is the Irish Anti-War movement so deafeningly silent on one of the biggest war crimes in years?