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putting a price on FYM.

  • 20-08-2013 12:14PM
    #1
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭


    Personally i love FYM cant have enough of it i reckon i have 300t still left to spread.

    My question is how much would you price dung at on a per tonne basis.

    Im asking because my father bales straw for a few lads around and there always asking can they have dung. One lad especially he normally gives my father a hundred bales of straw for bailing for him but he wants to pay this year and swap dung for straw instead. Im not too keen on this as my ground still needs alot of FYM.
    Any way what would you value good rotted dung at??


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Comments

  • #2
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    jersey101 wrote: »
    Personally i love FYM cant have enough of it i reckon i have 300t still left to spread.

    My question is how much would you price dung at on a per tonne basis.

    Im asking because my father bales straw for a few lads around and there always asking can they have dung. One lad especially he normally gives my father a hundred bales of straw for bailing for him but he wants to pay this year and swap dung for straw instead. Im not too keen on this as my ground still needs alot of FYM.
    Any way what would you value good rotted dung at??

    €10 per ton is the nutritional value for it in comparison to fertilizer - figures were given to us at last btap meeting!


  • #3
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    reilig wrote: »
    €10 per ton is the nutritional value for it in comparison to fertilizer - figures were given to us at last btap meeting!

    its worth a good bit then


  • #4
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    OP I can see where your man is coming from, if he didn't bale the straw, just chopped it with the combine he'd be adding about 30 yoyo per acre of P and K to his soil.

    With a swop all you'd be getting is free bedding. Don't forget the costs of handling it either, diesel isn't getting any cheaper. Personally I'd feel bad about selling straw never mind dung, I don't like depleting OM in my soil:eek:

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #5
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    blue5000 wrote: »
    OP I can see where your man is coming from, if he didn't bale the straw, just chopped it with the combine he'd be adding about 30 yoyo per acre of P and K to his soil.

    With a swop all you'd be getting is free bedding. Don't forget the costs of handling it either, diesel isn't getting any cheaper. Personally I'd feel bad about selling straw never mind dung, I don't like depleting OM in my soil:eek:

    well he would draw the dung i wouldn't do it haha. Ye the organic matter is low enough her


  • #6
    49801
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    fairest really is to do a direct swap.

    tillage man lets stock man come and bale straw at their own expense.
    stock man makes FYM out of it and tillage man spreads it back to his own ground at his own expense.
    best for both if ye can do and exclusive arrangement without the confusion of too many farmer getting the straw.


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  • #7
    KatyMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭KatyMac


    Keep your dung, it's the best for your fields. Had 2 different neighbours walking in fields recently where I spread FYM and they both commented on the grass.


  • #8
    bob charles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    im not going to say anything as I get allot of it off another large farm aswell FOC, ah sure it worthless;) and a pain to deal with:)


  • #9
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    bob charles wrote: »
    im not going to say anything as I get allot of it off another large farm aswell FOC, ah sure it worthless;) and a pain to deal with:)

    sure you're doing them a favour bob, lol.


  • #10
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    jersey101 wrote: »
    Personally i love FYM cant have enough of it i reckon i have 300t still left to spread.

    My question is how much would you price dung at on a per tonne basis.

    Im asking because my father bales straw for a few lads around and there always asking can they have dung. One lad especially he normally gives my father a hundred bales of straw for bailing for him but he wants to pay this year and swap dung for straw instead. Im not too keen on this as my ground still needs alot of FYM.
    Any way what would you value good rotted dung at??

    I believe you have raised a very interesting topic

    With chemical fertiliser becoming prohibitively expensive the Author of the book entitled "Holy ****" suggests that FYM could very easily become a tradable commodity

    http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2011/05/11/farmer-resource-manure

    This operation would of course involve specialised contractors with holding facilities to act as purchases and resellers of FYM

    Tbh whilst there are potentially lots of logistical issues I don't see it as an impossible or unlikely scenario in the event of more artificial fertiliser price hikes

    Any takers?


  • #11
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    Big issue facing tillage farmers is organic matter content of soil. It is becoming a problem where continuous Maize is being planted. I am not sure if it is yet in but it will come in if not there yet. Where land is continuously in grain the organic content of the soil reduces over time. This may be where the tillage farmer is coming from.

    The question you have to ask yourself is what if he stops the deal with the straw and starts chopping it into the ground himself. Maybe you can do a deal whereby you hold on to it every second year. In reality by the time it is spread it may be nearly cost neutral.


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  • #12
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    Big issue facing tillage farmers is organic matter content of soil. It is becoming a problem where continuous Maize is being planted. I am not sure if it is yet in but it will come in if not there yet. Where land is continuously in grain the organic content of the soil reduces over time. This may be where the tillage farmer is coming from.

    The question you have to ask yourself is what if he stops the deal with the straw and starts chopping it into the ground himself. Maybe you can do a deal whereby you hold on to it every second year. In reality by the time it is spread it may be nearly cost neutral.

    Have to disagree with you there Pudsey. If it's left to go brown before harvesting some of the leaves fall off, also the roots go down deep in soil esp in a dry year. Both the leaves and roots rot into the soil along with whatever slurry that gets ploughed in to grow the crop. Over time Maize actually sequesters carbon (OM) into soil.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #13
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    I love dung its brilliant stuff to grow grass over the winter. Protects the grass from frost and keeps it warm ive spread 120ac this year already and can spread another 40 - 50 with what ive left. Its just that it can do my land the world of good but if my father gets the straw for doing the bailing what do i get for giving the dung. I know the tillage man needs FYM to but i need it aswell


  • #14
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    jersey101 wrote: »
    I know the tillage man needs FYM to but i need it aswell

    Tell your dad you were told it's worth 12/15e a ton so ;) and see what the tillage chap comes back with at that! Would buy a nice bit of chem fertilizer, and save you the cost of spreading the dung!


  • #15
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    jersey101 wrote: »
    I love dung its brilliant stuff to grow grass over the winter. Protects the grass from frost and keeps it warm ive spread 120ac this year already and can spread another 40 - 50 with what ive left. Its just that it can do my land the world of good but if my father gets the straw for doing the bailing what do i get for giving the dung. I know the tillage man needs FYM to but i need it aswell
    sounds like a lot of fym! How're you producing so much of it? Straw bedding only?


  • #16
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    just do it wrote: »
    sounds like a lot of fym! How're you producing so much of it? Straw bedding only?

    ye all the cows and heifers and weanlings and bullocks on straw, 80 cows. Gives ye an idea how much dung we use


  • #17
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    Timmaay wrote: »
    Tell your dad you were told it's worth 12/15e a ton so ;) and see what the tillage chap comes back with at that! Would buy a nice bit of chem fertilizer, and save you the cost of spreading the dung!

    it would alri get me a nice bit of P+k to spread


  • #18
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,173 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    jersey101 wrote: »
    ye all the cows and heifers and weanlings and bullocks on straw, 80 cows. Gives ye an idea how much dung we use

    Christ I hope you've a straw blower! !


  • #19
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    Muckit wrote: »
    Christ I hope you've a straw blower! !

    ehhhh, does a grab and a loader count? :D


  • #20
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    Big issue facing tillage farmers is organic matter content of soil. It is becoming a problem where continuous Maize is being planted. I am not sure if it is yet in but it will come in if not there yet. Where land is continuously in grain the organic content of the soil reduces over time. This may be where the tillage farmer is coming from.

    The question you have to ask yourself is what if he stops the deal with the straw and starts chopping it into the ground himself. Maybe you can do a deal whereby you hold on to it every second year. In reality by the time it is spread it may be nearly cost neutral.

    That's already in and has been for the past couple of years. Straw is going to get a good bit more scarce in the future. The OP is actually being offered what will become a fairly common deal in the future IMO. He needs to hold as much of his own organic fert as he can. Go back to the tillage farmer and offer him half which should go a long way to replace the organic material removed from his farm. That volume of FYM will be harder to move as stocking rates increase for jersey the deal on offer might look more attractive as time passes.


  • #21
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    jersey101 wrote: »
    ye all the cows and heifers and weanlings and bullocks on straw, 80 cows. Gives ye an idea how much dung we use
    Wow! Do you have to provide slurry storage as well?


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  • #22
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    just do it wrote: »
    Wow! Do you have to provide slurry storage as well?

    i put it in an old silage pit that has an effluent tank


  • #23
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    jersey101 wrote: »
    i put it in an old silage pit that has an effluent tank

    Out of interest is the pit covered or not? We usually leave dung in the 2nd yard uncovered in the yard, but just too much runoff from it, I'm thinking of emptying the covered pit 1stly this year, then stack the dung inside in it.


  • #24
    bob charles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    Timmaay wrote: »
    Out of interest is the pit covered or not? We usually leave dung in the 2nd yard uncovered in the yard, but just too much runoff from it, I'm thinking of emptying the covered pit 1stly this year, then stack the dung inside in it.

    you will be in trouble if you have a nitrates or council inspection and your storing dung uncovered in a yard even if your collect runoff. they will call the runoff slurry and not soiled water and you will have to have 16 weeks storage depending on what zone your in.


  • #25
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    bob charles wrote: »
    you will be in trouble if you have a nitrates or council inspection and your storing dung uncovered in a yard even if your collect runoff. they will call the runoff slurry and not soiled water and you will have to have 16 weeks storage depending on what zone your in.

    Yeh we have the 16wks storage, but its back in the main yard, small 10kgls tank at the minute in that yard, pain in the arse drawing water out of it, one heavy flood will fill it in a day or so.


  • #26
    bob charles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    Timmaay wrote: »
    Yeh we have the 16wks storage, but its back in the main yard, small 10kgls tank at the minute in that yard, pain in the arse drawing water out of it, one heavy flood will fill it in a day or so.

    your creating extra slurry by not having it covered and this is what authority dont want


  • #27
    st1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭st1979


    bob charles wrote: »
    your creating extra slurry by not having it covered and this is what authority dont want

    I had this opinion of my yard from an inspector even though i had enough storage, I wasn't miniumising the mixing of rainwater and slurry. Which in all fairness is subjective. So best to tell them to inspect the Greenfields site in kilkenny with there outdoor pad of over an acre and ask them is that really minimumising the mixing of rain and slurry


  • #28
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    Looking at all this it looks like slats are the cheapest in the longterm


  • #29
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    Looking at all this it looks like slats are the cheapest in the longterm

    But if a roof is put over the silage silo there will be little need for storage of run off? If you look at FYM as a commodity and slurry contributing to ground compaction it is worth a serious look. Slatted house ain't cheap.


  • #30
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    just do it wrote: »
    But if a roof is put over the silage silo there will be little need for storage of run off? If you look at FYM as a commodity and slurry contributing to ground compaction it is worth a serious look. Slatted house ain't cheap.

    You will 2-3 times the amount of room in a straw beded shed compared to slats. Dung around the pillers will corrode pillers even if galvansied. If you have to buy straw the figgures add up very fast. From a new build point of view at present slats work out cheaper than a straw bedded area per head of cattle. Now there may be precieved benifits in suckler cows being longer in the herd but this is counterbalanced by cull cow value.

    Friend put up a slatted shed latly and even though he hit some rock shed is as expensive as what went under the ground slats included.


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  • #31
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    Timmaay wrote: »
    Out of interest is the pit covered or not? We usually leave dung in the 2nd yard uncovered in the yard, but just too much runoff from it, I'm thinking of emptying the covered pit 1stly this year, then stack the dung inside in it.

    no not covered, just pile it as high ad ye want


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