putting a price on FYM.

jersey101

Personally i love FYM cant have enough of it i reckon i have 300t still left to spread.

My question is how much would you price dung at on a per tonne basis.

Im asking because my father bales straw for a few lads around and there always asking can they have dung. One lad especially he normally gives my father a hundred bales of straw for bailing for him but he wants to pay this year and swap dung for straw instead. Im not too keen on this as my ground still needs alot of FYM.
Any way what would you value good rotted dung at??

reilig

jersey101 wrote: »

Personally i love FYM cant have enough of it i reckon i have 300t still left to spread.

My question is how much would you price dung at on a per tonne basis.

Im asking because my father bales straw for a few lads around and there always asking can they have dung. One lad especially he normally gives my father a hundred bales of straw for bailing for him but he wants to pay this year and swap dung for straw instead. Im not too keen on this as my ground still needs alot of FYM.
Any way what would you value good rotted dung at??

€10 per ton is the nutritional value for it in comparison to fertilizer - figures were given to us at last btap meeting!

jersey101

reilig wrote: »

€10 per ton is the nutritional value for it in comparison to fertilizer - figures were given to us at last btap meeting!

its worth a good bit then

blue5000

OP I can see where your man is coming from, if he didn't bale the straw, just chopped it with the combine he'd be adding about 30 yoyo per acre of P and K to his soil.

With a swop all you'd be getting is free bedding. Don't forget the costs of handling it either, diesel isn't getting any cheaper. Personally I'd feel bad about selling straw never mind dung, I don't like depleting OM in my soil:eek:

jersey101

blue5000 wrote: »

OP I can see where your man is coming from, if he didn't bale the straw, just chopped it with the combine he'd be adding about 30 yoyo per acre of P and K to his soil.

With a swop all you'd be getting is free bedding. Don't forget the costs of handling it either, diesel isn't getting any cheaper. Personally I'd feel bad about selling straw never mind dung, I don't like depleting OM in my soil:eek:

well he would draw the dung i wouldn't do it haha. Ye the organic matter is low enough her

49801

fairest really is to do a direct swap.

tillage man lets stock man come and bale straw at their own expense.
stock man makes FYM out of it and tillage man spreads it back to his own ground at his own expense.
best for both if ye can do and exclusive arrangement without the confusion of too many farmer getting the straw.

KatyMac

Keep your dung, it's the best for your fields. Had 2 different neighbours walking in fields recently where I spread FYM and they both commented on the grass.

bob charles

im not going to say anything as I get allot of it off another large farm aswell FOC, ah sure it worthless;) and a pain to deal with:)

Conmaicne Mara

bob charles wrote: »

im not going to say anything as I get allot of it off another large farm aswell FOC, ah sure it worthless;) and a pain to deal with:)

sure you're doing them a favour bob, lol.

gozunda

jersey101 wrote: »

Personally i love FYM cant have enough of it i reckon i have 300t still left to spread.

My question is how much would you price dung at on a per tonne basis.

Im asking because my father bales straw for a few lads around and there always asking can they have dung. One lad especially he normally gives my father a hundred bales of straw for bailing for him but he wants to pay this year and swap dung for straw instead. Im not too keen on this as my ground still needs alot of FYM.
Any way what would you value good rotted dung at??

I believe you have raised a very interesting topic

With chemical fertiliser becoming prohibitively expensive the Author of the book entitled "Holy ****" suggests that FYM could very easily become a tradable commodity

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2011/05/11/farmer-resource-manure

This operation would of course involve specialised contractors with holding facilities to act as purchases and resellers of FYM

Tbh whilst there are potentially lots of logistical issues I don't see it as an impossible or unlikely scenario in the event of more artificial fertiliser price hikes

Any takers?

Farmer Pudsey

Big issue facing tillage farmers is organic matter content of soil. It is becoming a problem where continuous Maize is being planted. I am not sure if it is yet in but it will come in if not there yet. Where land is continuously in grain the organic content of the soil reduces over time. This may be where the tillage farmer is coming from.

The question you have to ask yourself is what if he stops the deal with the straw and starts chopping it into the ground himself. Maybe you can do a deal whereby you hold on to it every second year. In reality by the time it is spread it may be nearly cost neutral.

blue5000

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Big issue facing tillage farmers is organic matter content of soil. It is becoming a problem where continuous Maize is being planted. I am not sure if it is yet in but it will come in if not there yet. Where land is continuously in grain the organic content of the soil reduces over time. This may be where the tillage farmer is coming from.

The question you have to ask yourself is what if he stops the deal with the straw and starts chopping it into the ground himself. Maybe you can do a deal whereby you hold on to it every second year. In reality by the time it is spread it may be nearly cost neutral.

Have to disagree with you there Pudsey. If it's left to go brown before harvesting some of the leaves fall off, also the roots go down deep in soil esp in a dry year. Both the leaves and roots rot into the soil along with whatever slurry that gets ploughed in to grow the crop. Over time Maize actually sequesters carbon (OM) into soil.

jersey101

I love dung its brilliant stuff to grow grass over the winter. Protects the grass from frost and keeps it warm ive spread 120ac this year already and can spread another 40 - 50 with what ive left. Its just that it can do my land the world of good but if my father gets the straw for doing the bailing what do i get for giving the dung. I know the tillage man needs FYM to but i need it aswell

Timmaay

jersey101 wrote: »

I know the tillage man needs FYM to but i need it aswell

Tell your dad you were told it's worth 12/15e a ton so and see what the tillage chap comes back with at that! Would buy a nice bit of chem fertilizer, and save you the cost of spreading the dung!

just do it

jersey101 wrote: »

I love dung its brilliant stuff to grow grass over the winter. Protects the grass from frost and keeps it warm ive spread 120ac this year already and can spread another 40 - 50 with what ive left. Its just that it can do my land the world of good but if my father gets the straw for doing the bailing what do i get for giving the dung. I know the tillage man needs FYM to but i need it aswell

sounds like a lot of fym! How're you producing so much of it? Straw bedding only?

jersey101

just do it wrote: »

sounds like a lot of fym! How're you producing so much of it? Straw bedding only?

ye all the cows and heifers and weanlings and bullocks on straw, 80 cows. Gives ye an idea how much dung we use

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

Tell your dad you were told it's worth 12/15e a ton so and see what the tillage chap comes back with at that! Would buy a nice bit of chem fertilizer, and save you the cost of spreading the dung!

it would alri get me a nice bit of P+k to spread

Muckit

jersey101 wrote: »

ye all the cows and heifers and weanlings and bullocks on straw, 80 cows. Gives ye an idea how much dung we use

Christ I hope you've a straw blower! !

jersey101

Muckit wrote: »

Christ I hope you've a straw blower! !

ehhhh, does a grab and a loader count?

freedominacup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Big issue facing tillage farmers is organic matter content of soil. It is becoming a problem where continuous Maize is being planted. I am not sure if it is yet in but it will come in if not there yet. Where land is continuously in grain the organic content of the soil reduces over time. This may be where the tillage farmer is coming from.

The question you have to ask yourself is what if he stops the deal with the straw and starts chopping it into the ground himself. Maybe you can do a deal whereby you hold on to it every second year. In reality by the time it is spread it may be nearly cost neutral.

That's already in and has been for the past couple of years. Straw is going to get a good bit more scarce in the future. The OP is actually being offered what will become a fairly common deal in the future IMO. He needs to hold as much of his own organic fert as he can. Go back to the tillage farmer and offer him half which should go a long way to replace the organic material removed from his farm. That volume of FYM will be harder to move as stocking rates increase for jersey the deal on offer might look more attractive as time passes.

just do it

jersey101 wrote: »

ye all the cows and heifers and weanlings and bullocks on straw, 80 cows. Gives ye an idea how much dung we use

Wow! Do you have to provide slurry storage as well?

jersey101

just do it wrote: »

Wow! Do you have to provide slurry storage as well?

i put it in an old silage pit that has an effluent tank

Timmaay

jersey101 wrote: »

i put it in an old silage pit that has an effluent tank

Out of interest is the pit covered or not? We usually leave dung in the 2nd yard uncovered in the yard, but just too much runoff from it, I'm thinking of emptying the covered pit 1stly this year, then stack the dung inside in it.

bob charles

Timmaay wrote: »

Out of interest is the pit covered or not? We usually leave dung in the 2nd yard uncovered in the yard, but just too much runoff from it, I'm thinking of emptying the covered pit 1stly this year, then stack the dung inside in it.

you will be in trouble if you have a nitrates or council inspection and your storing dung uncovered in a yard even if your collect runoff. they will call the runoff slurry and not soiled water and you will have to have 16 weeks storage depending on what zone your in.

Timmaay

bob charles wrote: »

you will be in trouble if you have a nitrates or council inspection and your storing dung uncovered in a yard even if your collect runoff. they will call the runoff slurry and not soiled water and you will have to have 16 weeks storage depending on what zone your in.

Yeh we have the 16wks storage, but its back in the main yard, small 10kgls tank at the minute in that yard, pain in the arse drawing water out of it, one heavy flood will fill it in a day or so.

bob charles

Timmaay wrote: »

Yeh we have the 16wks storage, but its back in the main yard, small 10kgls tank at the minute in that yard, pain in the arse drawing water out of it, one heavy flood will fill it in a day or so.

your creating extra slurry by not having it covered and this is what authority dont want

st1979

bob charles wrote: »

your creating extra slurry by not having it covered and this is what authority dont want

I had this opinion of my yard from an inspector even though i had enough storage, I wasn't miniumising the mixing of rainwater and slurry. Which in all fairness is subjective. So best to tell them to inspect the Greenfields site in kilkenny with there outdoor pad of over an acre and ask them is that really minimumising the mixing of rain and slurry

Farmer Pudsey

Looking at all this it looks like slats are the cheapest in the longterm

just do it

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Looking at all this it looks like slats are the cheapest in the longterm

But if a roof is put over the silage silo there will be little need for storage of run off? If you look at FYM as a commodity and slurry contributing to ground compaction it is worth a serious look. Slatted house ain't cheap.

Farmer Pudsey

just do it wrote: »

But if a roof is put over the silage silo there will be little need for storage of run off? If you look at FYM as a commodity and slurry contributing to ground compaction it is worth a serious look. Slatted house ain't cheap.

You will 2-3 times the amount of room in a straw beded shed compared to slats. Dung around the pillers will corrode pillers even if galvansied. If you have to buy straw the figgures add up very fast. From a new build point of view at present slats work out cheaper than a straw bedded area per head of cattle. Now there may be precieved benifits in suckler cows being longer in the herd but this is counterbalanced by cull cow value.

Friend put up a slatted shed latly and even though he hit some rock shed is as expensive as what went under the ground slats included.

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

Out of interest is the pit covered or not? We usually leave dung in the 2nd yard uncovered in the yard, but just too much runoff from it, I'm thinking of emptying the covered pit 1stly this year, then stack the dung inside in it.

no not covered, just pile it as high ad ye want

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

But if a roof is put over the silage silo there will be little need for storage of run off? If you look at FYM as a commodity and slurry contributing to ground compaction it is worth a serious look. Slatted house ain't cheap.

I cant see how if slurry will contribute to compaction that applying FYM wont do the same. Have enough storage and apply slurry/fym in as best conditions as possible. FYM and slurry are a commodity when you dont have much, when you have lots it very quickly becomes a headache

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see how if slurry will contribute to compaction that applying FYM wont do the same. Have enough storage and apply slurry/fym in as best conditions as possible. FYM and slurry are a commodity when you dont have much, when you have lots it very quickly becomes a headache

what i have left in the yard now is last years dung, couldn't spread because it never stopped raining, its nearly compost now

just do it

jersey101 wrote: »

its nearly compost now

Now your talking! Much better for the land than straight FYM. A simple system that would have a winter's FYM converted to compost for spreading the following autumn (i.e. within 6/9 months) ought to be a great resource.

jersey101

just do it wrote: »

Now your talking! Much better for the land than straight FYM. A simple system that would have a winter's FYM converted to compost for spreading the following autumn (i.e. within 6/9 months) ought to be a great resource.

ye i ought to put it back on the silage ground really that hasnt been spread this year yet

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

what i have left in the yard now is last years dung, couldn't spread because it never stopped raining, its nearly compost now

Thats ideal, but under the Nitrates directive its not possible to make compost out of FYM in the time window unless you have massive storage facilities to carry the dung for the following year

just do it wrote: »

Now your talking! Much better for the land than straight FYM. A simple system that would have a winter's FYM converted to compost for spreading the following autumn (i.e. within 6/9 months) ought to be a great resource.

The cost of making compost is just too high in this country with the regulations that have to be followed. You wont make compost out of dung in 6 months unless you start adding other ingredients. Ideally it needs nearer to 12 months and turning to make proper stuff. All the composting facalities in Ireland have to be primarily indoors whereas in the UK they are outdoors oh and the county councils own composting yard are allowed outdoors aswell.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see how if slurry will contribute to compaction that applying FYM wont do the same. Have enough storage and apply slurry/fym in as best conditions as possible. FYM and slurry are a commodity when you dont have much, when you have lots it very quickly becomes a headache

I get the impression you're in a tillage area. I reckon if you put the word out when you're under pressure that there was slurry to be had to take away you'd have them queueing around the block. There's a large pig farm close to me and guys have been fighting over the dregs at the bottom of the tanks since early May. Hasn't been worth your while to go over since that time.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

I get the impression you're in a tillage area. I reckon if you put the word out when you're under pressure that there was slurry to be had to take away you'd have them queueing around the block. There's a large pig farm close to me and guys have been fighting over the dregs at the bottom of the tanks since early May. Hasn't been worth your while to go over since that time.

Not in a tillage area per se, the locals that would be fighting over it wouldnt give you the steam of their p**s so I will find a better home on further away ground whatever it costs. I Truck allot of it to outlining ground but most of the local ground is gone over 5k gls this year aswell. Exporting slurry can get you in the mire aswell as I found out last year when and idiot took some of it and managed to pollute a well a number of miles away. Of course I go the blame :mad: I also import a good share of material from a couple of local facilities.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Not in a tillage area per se, the locals that would be fighting over it wouldnt give you the steam of their p**s so I will find a better home on further away ground whatever it costs. I Truck allot of it to outlining ground but most of the local ground is gone over 5k gls this year aswell. Exporting slurry can get you in the mire aswell as I found out last year when and idiot took some of it and managed to pollute a well a number of miles away. Of course I go the blame :mad: I also import a good share of material from a couple of local facilities.

It's definitely not all fun and games exporting but I think some of the guys with big expansion plans esp anyone who intends to buy in fodder and grain and graze their main block will have to get up to speed with the regs.

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

Thats ideal, but under the Nitrates directive its not possible to make compost out of FYM in the time window unless you have massive storage facilities to carry the dung for the following year



The cost of making compost is just too high in this country with the regulations that have to be followed. You wont make compost out of dung in 6 months unless you start adding other ingredients. Ideally it needs nearer to 12 months and turning to make proper stuff. All the composting facalities in Ireland have to be primarily indoors whereas in the UK they are outdoors oh and the county councils own composting yard are allowed outdoors aswell.

this would be stuff that came off feeding passages and then the actual beds awell, its been there since spring of 2012

just do it

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see how if slurry will contribute to compaction that applying FYM wont do the same.

Due to its liquid nature slurry, practically if spread too heavy is being accused of blocking pores in the soil. FYM contains solids such as straw. Earthworms come to the surface and drag this fibrous material down into the soil creating pores and improving the soil structure.

freedominacup

just do it wrote: »

Due to its liquid nature slurry, practically if spread too heavy is being accused of blocking pores in the soil. FYM contains solids such as straw. Earthworms come to the surface and drag this fibrous material down into the soil creating pores and improving the om % of the soil.

Little and often and if you need the 4wd on in a level field you probably shouldn't be out. I know that this is a long way from always being practical but it's a good indicator IMV.

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

Due to its liquid nature slurry, practically if spread too heavy is being accused of blocking pores in the soil. FYM contains solids such as straw. Earthworms come to the surface and drag this fibrous material down into the soil creating pores and improving the soil structure.

a little and often is the key like so many things with slurry. I would try and never go over 3k gls per ac. And try and get as much ground covered with dung in the spring/autumn again a tiny little bit can work wonders and not massive amounts. I also import a soil conditioner/compost type product. There is allot of too technical stuff written about slurry but I see ground we took on about 5 years and to start with there was no earth worms, now they are back in it and with each year passing the ground is improving and is only getting slurry. The most important thing for ground in my view is to be growing big crops - catch 22 if your starting from a low base.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Little and often and if you need the 4wd on in a level field you probably shouldn't be out. I know that this is a long way from always being practical but it's a good indicator IMV.

Exactly, good few people ask me does my 100hp tractor not struggle with the 2250gls tank after it and my response is - if its not able to pull it about you shouldnt be out spreading, my ground is pretty level tough.

freedominacup wrote: »

It's definitely not all fun and games exporting but I think some of the guys with big expansion plans esp anyone who intends to buy in fodder and grain and graze their main block will have to get up to speed with the regs.

This is very true and the amount of paperwork that nowadays has to follow sh*te is immense when Nutrient Management Plans etc have to be done. I have a consultancy bill for such work here on the desk and the bottom line is eye watering. The detail that you can be asked to go into is insane. In the very near future large dairy and cattle farms will have to have an IPPC Licence in my view like the pigs. then the fun and games will start

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

be asked to go into is insane. In the very near future large dairy and cattle farms will have to have an IPPC Licence in my view like the pigs. then the fun and games will start

AFAIK paper still isn't refusing ink:D:D:D:eek:.

Farmer Pudsey

bob charles wrote: »

Exactly, good few people ask me does my 100hp tractor not struggle with the 2250gls tank after it and my response is - if its not able to pull it about you shouldnt be out spreading, my ground is pretty level tough.



This is very true and the amount of paperwork that nowadays has to follow sh*te is immense when Nutrient Management Plans etc have to be done. I have a consultancy bill for such work here on the desk and the bottom line is eye watering. The detail that you can be asked to go into is insane. In the very near future large dairy and cattle farms will have to have an IPPC Licence in my view like the pigs. then the fun and games will start

freedominacup wrote: »

AFAIK paper still isn't refusing ink:D:D:D:eek:.

There is a chance for ould Pudsey yet. Might not be the brightest or the most educated but if there's a system he will find a way.

manjou

bob charles wrote: »

a little and often is the key like so many things with slurry. I would try and never go over 3k gls per ac. And try and get as much ground covered with dung in the spring/autumn again a tiny little bit can work wonders and not massive amounts. I also import a soil conditioner/compost type product. There is allot of too technical stuff written about slurry but I see ground we took on about 5 years and to start with there was no earth worms, now they are back in it and with each year passing the ground is improving and is only getting slurry. The most important thing for ground in my view is to be growing big crops - catch 22 if your starting from a low base.

How did you get the earthworms back into the ground as have only slurry abd very little fym?

just do it

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

There is a chance for ould Pudsey yet. Might not be the brightest or the most educated but if there's a system he will find a way.

From what I see there is no fear of auld Pudsey :)

bob charles

manjou wrote: »

How did you get the earthworms back into the ground as have only slurry abd very little fym?

mixture of a good bit slurry, some FYM, lime, sulphur/magnesium fertilizer and growing high OM crops. before me the land had silage cut from it for years and had basically no P and K when a soil test was done

manjou

bob charles wrote: »

mixture of a good bit slurry, some FYM, lime, sulphur/magnesium fertilizer and growing high OM crops. before me the land had silage cut from it for years and had basically no P and K when a soil test was done

Which high om crops would do good on ground that is for cattle grazing after.Land was intensely grazed before and to much straight n applied.Did you use keserite as fertliser for sulpher and mg

bob charles

manjou wrote: »

Which high om crops would do good on ground that is for cattle grazing after.Land was intensely grazed before and to much straight n applied.Did you use keserite as fertliser for sulpher and mg

high OM crops I consider to be maize and beet, obviously you need dry land to grow such crops to begin with. Use a good bit of Kieserite and I find it works in my situation