putting a price on FYM.

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

But if a roof is put over the silage silo there will be little need for storage of run off? If you look at FYM as a commodity and slurry contributing to ground compaction it is worth a serious look. Slatted house ain't cheap.

I cant see how if slurry will contribute to compaction that applying FYM wont do the same. Have enough storage and apply slurry/fym in as best conditions as possible. FYM and slurry are a commodity when you dont have much, when you have lots it very quickly becomes a headache

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see how if slurry will contribute to compaction that applying FYM wont do the same. Have enough storage and apply slurry/fym in as best conditions as possible. FYM and slurry are a commodity when you dont have much, when you have lots it very quickly becomes a headache

what i have left in the yard now is last years dung, couldn't spread because it never stopped raining, its nearly compost now

just do it

jersey101 wrote: »

its nearly compost now

Now your talking! Much better for the land than straight FYM. A simple system that would have a winter's FYM converted to compost for spreading the following autumn (i.e. within 6/9 months) ought to be a great resource.

jersey101

just do it wrote: »

Now your talking! Much better for the land than straight FYM. A simple system that would have a winter's FYM converted to compost for spreading the following autumn (i.e. within 6/9 months) ought to be a great resource.

ye i ought to put it back on the silage ground really that hasnt been spread this year yet

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

what i have left in the yard now is last years dung, couldn't spread because it never stopped raining, its nearly compost now

Thats ideal, but under the Nitrates directive its not possible to make compost out of FYM in the time window unless you have massive storage facilities to carry the dung for the following year

just do it wrote: »

Now your talking! Much better for the land than straight FYM. A simple system that would have a winter's FYM converted to compost for spreading the following autumn (i.e. within 6/9 months) ought to be a great resource.

The cost of making compost is just too high in this country with the regulations that have to be followed. You wont make compost out of dung in 6 months unless you start adding other ingredients. Ideally it needs nearer to 12 months and turning to make proper stuff. All the composting facalities in Ireland have to be primarily indoors whereas in the UK they are outdoors oh and the county councils own composting yard are allowed outdoors aswell.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see how if slurry will contribute to compaction that applying FYM wont do the same. Have enough storage and apply slurry/fym in as best conditions as possible. FYM and slurry are a commodity when you dont have much, when you have lots it very quickly becomes a headache

I get the impression you're in a tillage area. I reckon if you put the word out when you're under pressure that there was slurry to be had to take away you'd have them queueing around the block. There's a large pig farm close to me and guys have been fighting over the dregs at the bottom of the tanks since early May. Hasn't been worth your while to go over since that time.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

I get the impression you're in a tillage area. I reckon if you put the word out when you're under pressure that there was slurry to be had to take away you'd have them queueing around the block. There's a large pig farm close to me and guys have been fighting over the dregs at the bottom of the tanks since early May. Hasn't been worth your while to go over since that time.

Not in a tillage area per se, the locals that would be fighting over it wouldnt give you the steam of their p**s so I will find a better home on further away ground whatever it costs. I Truck allot of it to outlining ground but most of the local ground is gone over 5k gls this year aswell. Exporting slurry can get you in the mire aswell as I found out last year when and idiot took some of it and managed to pollute a well a number of miles away. Of course I go the blame :mad: I also import a good share of material from a couple of local facilities.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Not in a tillage area per se, the locals that would be fighting over it wouldnt give you the steam of their p**s so I will find a better home on further away ground whatever it costs. I Truck allot of it to outlining ground but most of the local ground is gone over 5k gls this year aswell. Exporting slurry can get you in the mire aswell as I found out last year when and idiot took some of it and managed to pollute a well a number of miles away. Of course I go the blame :mad: I also import a good share of material from a couple of local facilities.

It's definitely not all fun and games exporting but I think some of the guys with big expansion plans esp anyone who intends to buy in fodder and grain and graze their main block will have to get up to speed with the regs.

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

Thats ideal, but under the Nitrates directive its not possible to make compost out of FYM in the time window unless you have massive storage facilities to carry the dung for the following year



The cost of making compost is just too high in this country with the regulations that have to be followed. You wont make compost out of dung in 6 months unless you start adding other ingredients. Ideally it needs nearer to 12 months and turning to make proper stuff. All the composting facalities in Ireland have to be primarily indoors whereas in the UK they are outdoors oh and the county councils own composting yard are allowed outdoors aswell.

this would be stuff that came off feeding passages and then the actual beds awell, its been there since spring of 2012

just do it

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see how if slurry will contribute to compaction that applying FYM wont do the same.

Due to its liquid nature slurry, practically if spread too heavy is being accused of blocking pores in the soil. FYM contains solids such as straw. Earthworms come to the surface and drag this fibrous material down into the soil creating pores and improving the soil structure.

freedominacup

just do it wrote: »

Due to its liquid nature slurry, practically if spread too heavy is being accused of blocking pores in the soil. FYM contains solids such as straw. Earthworms come to the surface and drag this fibrous material down into the soil creating pores and improving the om % of the soil.

Little and often and if you need the 4wd on in a level field you probably shouldn't be out. I know that this is a long way from always being practical but it's a good indicator IMV.

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

Due to its liquid nature slurry, practically if spread too heavy is being accused of blocking pores in the soil. FYM contains solids such as straw. Earthworms come to the surface and drag this fibrous material down into the soil creating pores and improving the soil structure.

a little and often is the key like so many things with slurry. I would try and never go over 3k gls per ac. And try and get as much ground covered with dung in the spring/autumn again a tiny little bit can work wonders and not massive amounts. I also import a soil conditioner/compost type product. There is allot of too technical stuff written about slurry but I see ground we took on about 5 years and to start with there was no earth worms, now they are back in it and with each year passing the ground is improving and is only getting slurry. The most important thing for ground in my view is to be growing big crops - catch 22 if your starting from a low base.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Little and often and if you need the 4wd on in a level field you probably shouldn't be out. I know that this is a long way from always being practical but it's a good indicator IMV.

Exactly, good few people ask me does my 100hp tractor not struggle with the 2250gls tank after it and my response is - if its not able to pull it about you shouldnt be out spreading, my ground is pretty level tough.

freedominacup wrote: »

It's definitely not all fun and games exporting but I think some of the guys with big expansion plans esp anyone who intends to buy in fodder and grain and graze their main block will have to get up to speed with the regs.

This is very true and the amount of paperwork that nowadays has to follow sh*te is immense when Nutrient Management Plans etc have to be done. I have a consultancy bill for such work here on the desk and the bottom line is eye watering. The detail that you can be asked to go into is insane. In the very near future large dairy and cattle farms will have to have an IPPC Licence in my view like the pigs. then the fun and games will start

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

be asked to go into is insane. In the very near future large dairy and cattle farms will have to have an IPPC Licence in my view like the pigs. then the fun and games will start

AFAIK paper still isn't refusing ink:D:D:D:eek:.

Farmer Pudsey

bob charles wrote: »

Exactly, good few people ask me does my 100hp tractor not struggle with the 2250gls tank after it and my response is - if its not able to pull it about you shouldnt be out spreading, my ground is pretty level tough.



This is very true and the amount of paperwork that nowadays has to follow sh*te is immense when Nutrient Management Plans etc have to be done. I have a consultancy bill for such work here on the desk and the bottom line is eye watering. The detail that you can be asked to go into is insane. In the very near future large dairy and cattle farms will have to have an IPPC Licence in my view like the pigs. then the fun and games will start

freedominacup wrote: »

AFAIK paper still isn't refusing ink:D:D:D:eek:.

There is a chance for ould Pudsey yet. Might not be the brightest or the most educated but if there's a system he will find a way.

manjou

bob charles wrote: »

a little and often is the key like so many things with slurry. I would try and never go over 3k gls per ac. And try and get as much ground covered with dung in the spring/autumn again a tiny little bit can work wonders and not massive amounts. I also import a soil conditioner/compost type product. There is allot of too technical stuff written about slurry but I see ground we took on about 5 years and to start with there was no earth worms, now they are back in it and with each year passing the ground is improving and is only getting slurry. The most important thing for ground in my view is to be growing big crops - catch 22 if your starting from a low base.

How did you get the earthworms back into the ground as have only slurry abd very little fym?

just do it

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

There is a chance for ould Pudsey yet. Might not be the brightest or the most educated but if there's a system he will find a way.

From what I see there is no fear of auld Pudsey :)

bob charles

manjou wrote: »

How did you get the earthworms back into the ground as have only slurry abd very little fym?

mixture of a good bit slurry, some FYM, lime, sulphur/magnesium fertilizer and growing high OM crops. before me the land had silage cut from it for years and had basically no P and K when a soil test was done

manjou

bob charles wrote: »

mixture of a good bit slurry, some FYM, lime, sulphur/magnesium fertilizer and growing high OM crops. before me the land had silage cut from it for years and had basically no P and K when a soil test was done

Which high om crops would do good on ground that is for cattle grazing after.Land was intensely grazed before and to much straight n applied.Did you use keserite as fertliser for sulpher and mg

bob charles

manjou wrote: »

Which high om crops would do good on ground that is for cattle grazing after.Land was intensely grazed before and to much straight n applied.Did you use keserite as fertliser for sulpher and mg

high OM crops I consider to be maize and beet, obviously you need dry land to grow such crops to begin with. Use a good bit of Kieserite and I find it works in my situation

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

high OM crops I consider to be maize and beet, obviously you need dry land to grow such crops to begin with. Use a good bit of Kieserite and I find it works in my situation

Kieserite basicaly magnesium sulphate, can it be used on grass ground and if so do you still need suplfaCAN or similar.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Kieserite basicaly magnesium sulphate, can it be used on grass ground and if so do you still need suplfaCAN or similar.

yes it can, it all depends on you Ca:Mg ratio. my soils can be funny with high calicum amounts and low Ph.

manjou

bob charles wrote: »

yes it can, it all depends on you Ca:Mg ratio. my soils can be funny with high calicum amounts and low Ph.

Same problem did albreacht test and need only small amounts of baged lime every year but did ordinary test for reps and they said i need tonnes of lime per acre to bring up ph levels

freedominacup

manjou wrote: »

Same problem did albreacht test and need only small amounts of baged lime every year but did ordinary test for reps and they said i need tonnes of lime per acre to bring up ph levels

I thought the primary function of lime was to raise ph. I didn't think there was a particular benefit in the addition of Ca.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

I thought the primary function of lime was to raise ph. I didn't think there was a particular benefit in the addition of Ca.

There is more than one way of skinning a cat. With Manjou soil and mine is we have a bananas figure for calicum, mine is as high as 6000ppm coupled with a low Ph of say under 5.8. If I add say 2t lime/as my Ph rises to Ph 6.0 but my calcium figure is now gone to 7500ppm so throwing the whole Calciun magnesium ration bonkers. There are 4 ways to change Ph, by applying - Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium or Sodium. Which one you use depends on your soil. At a guess for 90% of soil in Ireland (this figure could be way out) the cheapest and correct thing to do is apply Calcium. Its all about balance and ratios between the big four named about

PatQfarmer

bob charles wrote: »

There is more than one way of skinning a cat. With Manjou soil and mine is we have a bananas figure for calicum, mine is as high as 6000ppm coupled with a low Ph of say under 5.8. If I add say 2t lime/as my Ph rises to Ph 6.0 but my calcium figure is now gone to 7500ppm so throwing the whole Calciun magnesium ration bonkers. There are 4 ways to change Ph, by applying - Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium or Sodium. Which one you use depends on your soil. At a guess for 90% of soil in Ireland (this figure could be way out) the cheapest and correct thing to do is apply Calcium. Its all about balance and ratios between the big four named about

Bob, you have encouraged me to investigate my High-Mo soil more than just the regular Teagasc soil-check this Autumn.
They say that with my soil, I need to be MINUS 4 tonnes of lime. That if I spread more lime, then Cu will be "locked-in".
It's locked-in anyway, I have to supplement the cattle every year, so maybe it's best to put out more lime to grow more grass?
What type of test do I need? Who might do it? Tipperary area. Thanks.

just do it

PatQ
What's so different to the normal soil test? Is it a different sample? Different lab? Different test?

I always just assumed a soil test was a soil test!

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

PatQ
What's so different to the normal soil test? Is it a different sample? Different lab? Different test?

I always just assumed a soil test was a soil test!

standard test cost 20 quid, little bit more detail 50 quid and full analysis is around 200 done under the albrecht soil testing. Glenside will do them in Ireland and hold your hand at a big price:)

delaval

Don't know, I did all this testing years ago and was spreading all sorts if stuff after at kilos/ acre. It cost a fortune and a phucking consultant near broke me.

Simple soil test every two years, 20 units S in June PK and Urea growing 15 tonnes dm

What am I doing wrong?

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Don't know, I did all this testing years ago and was spreading all sorts if stuff after at kilos/ acre. It cost a fortune and a phucking consultant near broke me.

Simple soil test every two years, 20 units S in June PK and Urea growing 15 tonnes dm

What am I doing wrong?

very true, I would be very slow applying anything that isnt main stream, and once vested interested parties get involved I would get nervous. The majority of the soil test I get done cost around €35 and get the ratios and Cation exchange capacity for that amount. The more you look and study soil the more bogged down you can become, and only worry about P,K,S,Mg,Ca and Na. if you go into the micro nutrients you may never come back.

Maybe now delaval your old consultants work is only showing rewards and you are now back raping his good work:D