The NoFap Challenge

wendell borton · 01-08-2013 08:41PM

… an old joke about Calvin Coolidge when he was President … The President and Mrs. Coolidge were being shown [separately] around an experimental government farm. When [Mrs. Coolidge] came to the chicken yard she noticed that a rooster was mating very frequently. She asked the attendant how often that happened and was told, "Dozens of times each day." Mrs. Coolidge said, "Tell that to the President when he comes by." Upon being told, President asked, "Same hen every time?" The reply was, "Oh, no, Mr. President, a different hen every time." President: "Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect

PizzamanIRL · 01-08-2013 08:46PM

Go away with the big paragraphs. Don't turn this into a science theory thread.

Femme_Fatale · 01-08-2013 08:48PM

Eramen wrote: »

In our sex obsessive culture of the modern West though, you'd be hard pressed to find any media (besides the internet, where it's more culturally free) that would vouch for periods of celibacy.

Having an addiction is a separate thing, but what's the point of involuntary celibacy/abstinence from masturbation/non hardcore porn for the person who does these things a moderate amount and they have absolutely no detrimental effects on their lives?

Daveysil15 · 01-08-2013 08:56PM

This always reminds me of the film 40 days and 40 nights. The guy walking around work with uncontrolable erections. I think it would just be a nuisance after a while.

Mr Benevolent · 01-08-2013 08:59PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Having an addiction is a separate thing, but what's the point of involuntary celibacy/abstinence from masturbation/non hardcore porn for the person who does these things a moderate amount and they have absolutely no detrimental effects on their lives?

There is no point. The idea is to create something artificial to worry about. This 'nofap' business is a very old idea - it was used 3000 years ago. Never worked, never will. Basically, it's an excuse for a single man to be single and joyless.

Eramen · 01-08-2013 09:05PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Having an addiction is a separate thing, but what's the point of involuntary celibacy/abstinence from masturbation/non hardcore porn for the person who does these things a moderate amount and they have absolutely no detrimental effects on their lives?

About a year ago before my own NoFap experience I would have happily categorized myself as the latter, a moderate user with absolutely no detrimental effects on my life. But it's only when a person stops do they fully comprehend the effects, big and small. And I found there actually were serious effects, and negligible ones that porn/fap had on me.

I don't think it can be fully appreciated without actually trying out a period of abstinence, how much of an affect these things are having on you mind and body [Unless it's very rare that you use hardcore porn and/or masturbation, in that case it very well could have minimal negative effects.]

Celibacy has it's own effects, and on the whole they are much preferable to the short term gains of regular fapping, IMO. But a person needs to actually try and compare before disrespect one side or the other. There's plenty of rushed conclusions on this thread, but only one or two who've actually completed the challenge and have an all-round perspective.

01-08-2013 09:06PM

Bozo Skeleton wrote: »

I mean, how hard can it be? I reckon I could pull it off no problem.
Just for a few days would be easy, read a book or listen to music instead, maybe go to the cine kjdg;kdgvksjgvskjagdvlgavldjgvlgvjkdbvljdgvljhsvjshdbslca

He he I see what you done there

01-08-2013 09:08PM

1ZRed wrote: »

Testosterone relationship to hair and hair loss:

Still no links. Did you read what it says though? It's DHT. If you have the sensitivity to DHT the initial level of testosterone doesn't make a massive difference.

Typed in masturbation and DHT and immediately the results that showed up included over masturbation in the title or article.

Amazing amount of weasel-words and the fact the paragraph closes with a line of advice doesn't exactly make me think it's from a peer-reviewed article.
What is "excessive" sexual activity/masturbation exactly? Someone jacking it 5 times a day without fail should probably have things to worry about before going bald is an issue.

I never said masturbation has a different effect on hair loss in comparison to sex, they do have different chemical releases, sex being more positive and rewarding in the brain, but when it comes to hair loss they're both releasing the same thing, which is testosterone, to contribute to hair loss in men who are already more sensitive to androgen levels when done in extreme excess.

Sorry, assumed from this you meant only jacking it did it.

1ZRed wrote: »

Too much of anything is a bad thing. I think you can go into sexual/adrenal exhaustion from overmasturbation which is 4-5+ times daily, AFAIK.

It's all about ejaculation in general, not the route to how you got there when dealing with baldness.

Still waiting for that study. :pac:

I think you misunderstood me when I was talking about over masturbation causing hair loss and not sex. Well in order to build up enough DHT in your body you have to be excessively ejaculating, and for that to happen you need to be doing it 5,6,7,8 times or more a day, every solid day, year in, year out. You'd have the same effect if you were doing that through sex, but that's unrealistic, but achievable if you masturbate excessively because you don't need to rely on somebody else being there.

Again, I'm going to emphasise you need to be excessively ejaculating beyond the point of being normal and healthy in order to for you do do yourself damage, not just to your hair follicles through over conversion of DHT, but hormones like prolactin are lowered and your body can be put in a stressful state of 'fight or flight' -long term, that's not good.

I'm not saying that over-masturbation is the sole cause of hair loss, but if you're continuously flooding your body with testosterone which the excess then gets converted into DHT, without giving your body a chance to level things out, you will be doing yourself some damage and contributing to your hair loss which you were genetically prone to in the first place, because you had a predetermined sensitivity to DHT.

A normal level of masturbation has no negative effect -nobody could argue otherwise.

If you want to ready up more about it just google masturbation DHT and you'll find a lot more on it if you're interested.

I try to not rely on Google for science. :pac: I'm just wondering though, surely after a while the sexual/adrenal burnout will mean less testosterone being released so before the effects of all the jacking it can hit anyone the body has already responded by releasing less? I don't actually believe that but I'm wondering how quickly the theoretical burnout would happen and if it would be before the potential baldness.

snausages · 01-08-2013 09:09PM

While nofap is stupid I do think that porn-viewing is an escalating habit. Maybe you can moderate your viewing habits and stick to some safe softcore stuff but in most cases I expect what brings people back to it is the thrill of finding new porn scenarios. It sort of removes the motivation to actually go out and **** real people. But an occasional **** doesn't do that.

I know a lot of people who do the no-fap thing but spend ages 'edging' which is actually way worse than just having a quick ****, porn-induced or otherwise.

blatantrereg · 01-08-2013 09:09PM

Is it that people think they shoot out a load of testosterone in their semen or what? I've heard of this strange idea being taken one step further when these guys doing bodybuilding got in the habit of eating their own cum.

I wonder how far they might go with it. The next logical step after not losing any of your own cum would be to start trying to eat other people's.

Eramen · 01-08-2013 09:10PM

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

There is no point. The idea is to create something artificial to worry about. This 'nofap' business is a very old idea - it was used 3000 years ago. Never worked, never will. Basically, it's an excuse for a single man to be single and joyless.

I'd would say you're perception is very wrong. NoFap is about promoting real, healthy relationships with living men or women - not the fantasy that porn can create and envelop people in. It's being made clear that porn addiction is very real and destructive, especially as studies advance on the subject [it's a very new field as you'd expect, considering the age of hardcore internet porn].

It's sounds like you're afraid that people might attempt this and enjoy it, and press on in their real lives to achieve something great, including building fruitful relationships.

The view that you must fap to be 'normal', or that it's always a healthy practice, as we hear time and time again, is now outmoded. We know this isn't always the case.

01-08-2013 09:12PM

Eramen wrote: »

About a year ago before my own NoFap experience I would have happily categorized myself as the latter, a moderate user with absolutely no detrimental effects on my life. But it's only when a person stops do they fully comprehend the effects, big and small. And I found there actually were serious effects, and negligible ones that porn/fap had on me.

I don't think it can be fully appreciated without actually trying out a period of abstinence, how much of an affect these things are having on you mind and body [Unless it's very rare that you use hardcore porn and/or masturbation, in that case it very well could have minimal negative effects.]

Celibacy has it's own effects, and on the whole they are much preferable to the short term gains of regular fapping, IMO. But a person needs to actually try and compare before disrespect one side or the other. There's plenty of rushed conclusions on this thread, but only one or two who've actually completed the challenge and have an all-round perspective.

What had you considered moderate and what were the effects?

EDIT: Ah ok, anti-porn, nevermind.

Foxhound38 · 01-08-2013 09:18PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Having an addiction is a separate thing, but what's the point of involuntary celibacy/abstinence from masturbation/non hardcore porn for the person who does these things a moderate amount and they have absolutely no detrimental effects on their lives?

Who mentioned anything about "involuntary"? Presumably the decision to fap or not to fap ultimately lies with the fapper - if you think it's bullsh1t, fap away to your hearts content!

Eramen · 01-08-2013 09:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What had you considered moderate and what were the effects?

EDIT: Ah ok, anti-porn, nevermind.

How did you garner I was 'anti-porn'? And once more does a person have to be pro-porn to have any value in your eyes? That's a fairly sad viewpoint.

When I said 'porn is a fantasy', it's not just me that is saying that - porn producers say this! It's the key to porn's success. If porn didn't appeal to your fancy nobody would watch it.

01-08-2013 09:22PM

Eramen wrote: »

How did you garner I was supposes 'anti-porn'? And once more does a person have to be pro-porn to have any value in your eyes? That's a fairly sad viewpoint.

Eramen wrote: »

I'd would say you're perception is very wrong. NoFap is about promoting real, healthy relationships with living men or women - not the fantasy that porn can create and envelop people in.

When someone claims to talk about one thing but then talks about another then there's little point debating them. Is it a quick tug or is it porn that this "challenge" is about? Do you think people didn't spank it regularly til 100 years ago?

When I said 'porn is a fantasy', it's not just me that is saying that - porn producers say this! It's the key to porn's success. If porn didn't appeal to your fancy nobody would watch it.

Who said porn isn't fantasy? What's it got to do with moderate levels of masturbation? Again, what did you think was a moderate level and what then convinced you that it was actually a problem?

Grayson · 01-08-2013 09:24PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ah the auld "self denial merely to lord it over people who aren't so disciplined" thing.

I honestly don't think most blokes would bring that up in conversation.

If you look at the theory behind it, it's sound enough. There is nothing wrong with a ****. And there's nothing wrong with porn. But there is something wrong when it's multiple times a day over a period of years if not decades. And even without the science behind it, it's not hard to imagine it's going to have a detrimental effect on other parts of a persons life.

One of the key things that they mention is that if you **** often enough to porn, it's hard to get aroused without it. And the fact is that for most blokes who watch an excessive amount of porn, even having a **** without it is tough, if not impossible. That is wrong. A guy should be able to easily get aroused without porn. Most posts on nofap are from blokes who admit that they can't/couldn't.

Call Me Jimmy · 01-08-2013 09:27PM

Eramen wrote: »

I've completed the NO Fap challenge 3 times now [hell, look at my sig ]. Three of my mates also are giving/gave it a go as well. We all starting encouraging each other and introducing positive change into our lives and it's definitely worked out for the better. I've acquired so much more discipline, so much more 'can do!' as a result. No Fap in the beginning really forces you to give it your all, to concentrate and work toward set goals, in work, in hobbies, social life, interests etc. The frontal cortex takes over you really do feel like a changed person (I believe the large scale change of habits actually changes the brain itself).

So yes, I feel I've really developed as I person though self-challenge, it's built up character and refined skills, it's promoted attachments to relationships. It's not really so much about porn and abstinence [well I lie it is lol] but using the discipline gained from giving them up to be more productive in life and to live in the now.

I believe you (not that anyone shouldn't) that it has had positive effects on your psyche. Similarly, I gave up cigarettes which took significant will power. From that gain of psychological confidence I decided I would get back into regular yoga I had stopped about 2 months previous. I started running consistently. I overcame a voice inside my head that said I can't control myself in any way shape or form.

And so the no fapping, I would say (this is not scientific): from times I've gone without I felt more purposeful, I literally had more spunk about me it felt. Complete abstinence from masturbation AND porn I don't think is necessary but it could be a good challenge to one's self. I use porn but I think it can get a stage (when single) that you become a bit numb to it.

Overall I think the NoFap Challenge might be a good thing not in terms of scientifically proven health benefits but in terms of calling into question in the minds of people who overly rely on Porn/Fapping that it might be perfectly normal and fine. It is normal and fine, but I just think it could be somewhat transformative in some cases.

Femme_Fatale · 01-08-2013 09:27PM

Grayson wrote: »

I honestly don't think most blokes would bring that up in conversation.

I actually deleted that post because I decided it wasn't relevant.

If you look at the theory behind it, it's sound enough. There is nothing wrong with a ****. And there's nothing wrong with porn. But there is something wrong when it's multiple times a day over a period of years if not decades.

For sure. But my reading is that people are talking it up as something worth doing even if you don't have a problem. Plus, I didn't realise it was about **** to porn; thought it was referring to **** full stop.

Eramen · 01-08-2013 09:32PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ok so this is more about porn-viewing and its physical accompaniment, rather than just fapping in and of itself?

Hate hardcore porn, obviously not good for someone if they are addicted to it, but a bit of leisurely non hardcore porn every so often... would there be issues attached to that?

It's about the negative effects of hardcore porn use, the biological effects of regular masturbation, both/and or leading to addiction due to the affect on the pleasure stimulated inner cortex of the brain. It's also about recognizing this addiction and it's implications for society, much like how the smoking, fast food addictions and online bullying where brought out of the dark.

NoFap's aim as far as I understand/practiced is to promote discipline, control and happiness over one's own life, to use it to improve oneself and one's skills & to establish real, healthy relationships in all senses [if you feel this latter is a problem].

There's surely other ways to build discipline too, for example I eat a strict diet, no sweets, cake, choc at all etc, I hike/jog, I hone my painting and astronomy knowledge and skill etc and it's amazing how all this pure energy and drive spills into all areas of your life! This is why I think NoFap is an awesome way to achieve oneself. It's an easy one to get started on, and secondly most people have a 'relationship with porn' that it might be better to kick.

People should look at what I'm saying in context, and not as an attack on their habit or little bit of fun as they see it.

Grayson · 01-08-2013 09:35PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ok so this is more about porn-viewing and its physical accompaniment, rather than just fapping in and of itself?

Hate hardcore porn, obviously not good for someone if they are addicted to it, but a bit of leisurely non hardcore porn every so often... would there be issues attached to that?

yep. Like I said in the post above, it's actually an addiction. It's multiple times a day for years on end. On nofap they have a term PMO. PMO means Porn-Masturbation-Orgasm. Brain scans have shown that guys who **** too much to porn display similar brain activity to drug addicts. In drug addicts the reward centers of the brain are keyed into drugs.

The symptoms of porn addiction are similar to drug addiction. Irritability, lack of attention, inability to concentrate etc... Additionally the reward system is keyed to porn, not to women. which is why many of the guys suffer from ED. Their brain reacts to porn, not the naked woman they're in bed with. Even those that don't have ED can have their perceptions of sex changed.

No-one thinks a bit of porn or an odd **** is bad. But all the fcuking time....that's not healthy.

Grayson · 01-08-2013 09:37PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I actually deleted that post because I decided it wasn't relevant.

For sure. But my reading is that people are talking it up as something worth doing even if you don't have a problem. Plus, I didn't realise it was about **** to porn; thought it was referring to **** full stop.

Nearly everyone on that subreddit has a problem. It's not like a diet fad or the latest self improvement thing. They are generally people who have issues arising from being really excessive.

Daveysil15 · 01-08-2013 09:38PM

I don't think it would be healthy to abstain from it all together. Wouldn't there be issues with blue balls? I find if I stop doing it for a long time it starts to affect my sleep. I keep waking up with boners in the middle of the night.

The longest I've gone without fapping is about 3 weeks. That was when I was in hospital after having an operation so I didn't really have a choice. Lack of privacy and all. I ended up having sexual thoughts about all the nurses. I find I think about sex a lot more if I don't fap.

Grayson · 01-08-2013 09:42PM

Incidentally, there's a comedy film about porn addiction with Joseph Gorden-Levitt and Scarlet Johansson due to be released soon.

snausages · 01-08-2013 09:48PM

^lol, that looks great.

MOC88 · 01-08-2013 11:19PM

Grayson wrote: »

Incidentally, there's a comedy film about porn addiction with Joseph Gorden-Levitt and Scarlet Johansson due to be released soon.

Haha its like they were thinking about making a Jersey Shore film

Oh and challenge accepted - I give myself till this time tommorow

NegativeCreep · 02-08-2013 12:31AM

Right, giving up smokes isn't happening on this attempt so I'm gonna try the no fap challenge for August and the 200 situps and 100 pushups challenges, just so that if I complete one of them, I won't feel like a total failure!

Oranage2 · 02-08-2013 03:11AM

Day 1 - completed

so first day without MOing (masturbating, orgasming), actually pretty easy, at night I did find myself however slightly tempted and even touched the junk the odd time. This morning was also a little testing with the morning wood but to take my mind of it I opened boards.

I see if I'm to be successful I'm going to need to buy some pajamas as I sleep naked.

02-08-2013 03:16AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Day 1 - completed

so first day without MOing (masturbating, orgasming), actually pretty easy, at night I did find myself however slightly tempted and even touched the junk the odd time. This morning was also a little testing with the morning wood but to take my mind of it I opened boards.

I see if I'm to be successful I'm going to need to buy some pajamas as I sleep naked.

Is sitting watching telly with yer hand down yer kacks a problem in this?

Oranage2 · 02-08-2013 05:31AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is sitting watching telly with yer hand down yer kacks a problem in this?

I'm only my second day into this so I'm no expert but id imagine its the equivalent to a fat kid on diet putting chocolate cake in his mouth but not wanting to swallow.

PizzamanIRL · 02-08-2013 06:01AM

1 day done and my boxers are smelling fresh. The tissue supply in the house is at a decent level.

The NoFap Challenge

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